Larryyla Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) Hi everyone. Thanks in advance for any feedback. I learned to ride just last year on a friends cheap generic and it dumped me a couple times due to the battery cutting out. So when I bought my first wheel a month ago I got a Kingsong (Artwheel) AW14 with the 174wh battery, yes I can hear you booing but it's working out fine for now. At $380 it was a no brainer and I figure it will be a good beginners wheel. Another reason I chose it was for the swappable battery pack (why don't they all have this?) and I'm thinking that I can get a more powerful battery but from where? The seller I bought from only has more 174wh batts. I do like the idea of charging one batt while riding on another or swapping after running one down on a long ride. The BT speakers and the head and tail lights help as I do ride at night. So why is it called “Artwheel”? It is obviously a Kingsong 14b. It has the 500w motor. It says Kingsong on it and came in a Kingsong box with a Kingsong manual. I now have over 100 kms on it and thanks to ESAJ's post I have it unlocked and have disabled the class 1 and 2 alarms, raised the class3 alarm to 29 of 40 (it won't go higher) but the “Ollie” speed (I'm guessing that's tiltback) won't go up at all. It stays on the 20 of 40 setting as it was and tiltback does occur at 20km/hr. The seller advertised it as a 15mph (24.14 kmh) wheel. Do any of you know what top speed I can realistically expect from this wheel? I have also noticed something strange about this wheel. When I turn, the footrests tip forward a little but then return to level after the turn. Is this normal? Edited June 20, 2017 by Larryyla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideMc Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Buy it from the guys out of Brooklyn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryyla Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Indeed I did. Is that good or bad? Edited June 21, 2017 by Larryyla Addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 21 hours ago, Larryyla said: So why is it called “Artwheel”? It is obviously a Kingsong 14b. It has the 500w motor. It says Kingsong on it and came in a Kingsong box with a Kingsong manual. Just a try to rebrand it? Marketing? 21 hours ago, Larryyla said: I now have over 100 kms on it and thanks to ESAJ's post I have it unlocked and have disabled the class 1 and 2 alarms, raised the class3 alarm to 29 of 40 (it won't go higher) but the “Ollie” speed (I'm guessing that's tiltback) won't go up at all. It stays on the 20 of 40 setting as it was and tiltback does occur at 20km/hr. The seller advertised it as a 15mph (24.14 kmh) wheel. Do any of you know what top speed I can realistically expect from this wheel? If tiltback cannot be set higher than 20 km/h you should leave the 3rd alarm at 20 km/h (or even 19 km/h?!) too - you can not 100% rely on the tilt-back kicking in, so at least you get some beeping as warning. In the internet i found max speed for KS14b of 20 km/h and 15 mph==24 km/h - seems that the non-metric wheels are faster I assume while tiltbacking one could drive up to 24 km/h? (this is not a recommendation) Anyway with a 16s1p Battery pack (16 cells in serie and "one in parallel") configuration i would not recommend to go faster. Take care accelerating near top speed and on inclines - especially with not so full batteries, cold weather, etc... - the lower the capacity (voltage) the easier to overlean, and with just one cell the voltage sag under load is not neglectible. (This are all general recommendations - i have no experience with the KS14B. But i'd assume there should be quite some around here with real experience with exactly this wheel!) 21 hours ago, Larryyla said: I have also noticed something strange about this wheel. When I turn, the footrests tip forward a little but then return to level after the turn. Is this normal? I've never experienced it differently with any wheel - and i don't really like this behaviour... @KingSong69reported that at ?many/some? wheels this behaviour can be eliminated by carefully calibrating the wheel. But with some it's just not possible... One indication that calibration could help should be if you compare the turn tilt behaviour driving the wheel in both directions (swap it 180° and drive forward ). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post US69 Posted June 21, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Chriull said: Just a try to rebrand it? Marketing? In the earlier times there where some "rebrands" of Kingsong (especially 14b and 14c) on the market....saw one in Canada and one aussie seller did this too. Also "futurewheel" from netherland is a KS rebrand (or was) 7 minutes ago, Chriull said: In the internet i found max speed for KS14b of 20 km/h and 15 mph==24 km/h - seems that the non-metric wheels are faster I also just found a max Speed of 20kmh...for a 500Watt wheel with that low Batterie quite normal i think. It is a bit stupid that the Alarm 3 could be set to 29...but that then seams just one of the "minor" imperfections of the app....DO not set Alarm 3 higher than tiltback... 9 minutes ago, Chriull said: I've never experienced it differently with any wheel - and i don't really like this behaviour... @KingSong69reported that at ?many/some? wheels this behaviour can be eliminated by carefully calibrating the wheel. But with some it's just not possible... One indication that calibration could help should be if you compare the turn tilt behaviour driving the wheel in both directions (swap it 180° and drive forward ). I dont know this behaviour from any of my KS wheels i had (14c, 16b, 18A)...so i would try to calibrate it sometimes! Important is that the wheel while calibration is not only hoizontal perfect.....it must be aligned 100% vertical, so not leaned to left or right!!! Than this "dip" behaviour should go away! 21 hours ago, Larryyla said: and I'm thinking that I can get a more powerful battery but from where? The seller I bought from only has more 174wh batts. I do like the idea of charging one batt while riding on another or swapping after running one down on a long ride. the Maximum possible amount of wh you can put in a 14b pack are 207wh...with 3500mah 10Amp cells, while i would guess for a ONE 16 seriell pack it would be better to use LG H2 3000mah cells with 20 Amp...thats safer...but that all would be do it yourself Job! Standard you can only buy 174wh packs.... 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideMc Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) ArtWheel seems to be a rebrand of KingSong. One KingSong employee told me they were an authorized dealer. Another said they weren't sure, but saw orders from them. So - LOL. Not sure, but that's what I know. Edited June 21, 2017 by RideMc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryyla Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 Thank you all for weighing in and helping. Yes the seller I bought from is in Brooklyn NY and is in the kitchen and bath fixture business. I got the impression that the KS (Artwheel) 14b is the only wheel he sells, along with extra 174wh batts. A Google image search shows the entire Kingsong linup rebranded with the Artwheel logo. Silly but I think I got a pretty good deal. I had originally hoped I might be able to use the 840wh batt or I believe I saw one in the 600wh range for the KS 14c and not have to do any re-engineering. Not that I couldn't do it. I do know a little about electronics ( what I haven't forgotten ) and can solder decently. I did put a shunt on the overdischarge protection circuit of the BMS in the el-cheapo generic wheel that I learned to ride last year. But, I really do like the idea of simply dropping in the 840wh for the 14c to extend my range, unless there is a voltage difference or something else that makes it incompatible. Also, would my charger be compatible with the 840wh batt? If the answer is yes I can do that, then where might I buy the 840wh batt? I haven't seen them on ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryyla Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) I'm not as concerned with going faster as I am farther. Edited June 22, 2017 by Larryyla couldn't add to prevoius post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheel-EUC019 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Yes, it was one of KING SONG dealer in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryyla Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideMc Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 @Larryyla. How's your wheel working? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 You can get a larger battery and modify the case to fit the larger than the case battery. I did a mod with a 348wh LG I picked up from Electricunicyclereview.com. Its up on the forum. I have not tried it on the 14b, because I have to ship it to the east coast. If you are in Los Angeles, I would love to do a test with it before I send it out. That said, if you want me to mod one for you, send me the battery and the battery case and I will mod one up for you. It can only make the ride safer with twice as many cells to power the machine. it is a little gem and so much fun to ride. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) On 22/06/2017 at 4:44 AM, Larryyla said: had originally hoped I might be able to use the 840wh batt or I believe I saw one in the 600wh range for the KS 14c and not have to do any re-engineering. The Kingsong 14B is NOT the Kingsong 14C! On the 14C the control board is across the top of the wheel and there are two compartments either side (under the soft pads that rest against your legs. 840Wh is two batteries that go in both sides of the 14C. The 14B has the control board in one side compartment and the removable battery in the other so there is absolutely no way to get 840Wh in it short of buying both a completely new KS-14C case and a new controller ( you cannot just change the orientation of the controller without either moving the gyro chip or reprogramming it (and, to the best of my knowledge, the Kingsong source firmware is not made available to users). At that point you might as well buy a new wheel! The only option would be to replace the cells in a removable pack as suggested above but that will not give you a huge increase in capacity for the cost it is going to be (unless you can lay your hands on a duff pack real cheap to change the cells in) It is not an amateur thing to do either the cells should be spot welded not soldered. You can see the insides of the 14B here: Changing the cells in that pack It is not something I think I could be bothered to do! Edited August 3, 2017 by Keith 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 As for my 348wh mod, I didnt touch the battery configuration. I only soldered the wire connections to the battery case connectors and used wire nuts and 10awg crimping connectors for other wire connector. (Actually the wire nuts was a suggestion I had to add after getting some advice). The Beauty of the 14b is the interchangeable batteries, so no need to re arrange the innards. Just pop in a Fresh battery pack. The 348wh batteries are $120 at the Elecunireview site, and two of them plus the original 174wh would give you more than the 860wh. One would just have to carry the extra batteries. Yes it would cost as much as the $599 battery pack to make - $540 in parts, but maybe could get a discount on just the battery cases somehow. I bet I could 3d print the plastic case. The hardware is all readily available electric lawnmower battery connectors. So maybe $400 all together if we were to print them. Printing them would also remove the Frankenstein's monster look of my cutout case version. Its limited as a machine and thats part of what makes it a fun machine to tinker with. There will always be a need for a wheel upgrade, so I am not saying the 14B is the B all to end all, but it is a EUC I want to keep around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 On 8/3/2017 at 11:09 AM, Keith said: The Kingsong 14B is NOT the Kingsong 14C! On the 14C the control board is across the top of the wheel and there are two compartments either side (under the soft pads that rest against your legs. 840Wh is two batteries that go in both sides of the 14C. The 14B has the control board in one side compartment and the removable battery in the other so there is absolutely no way to get 840Wh in it short of buying both a completely new KS-14C case and a new controller ( you cannot just change the orientation of the controller without either moving the gyro chip or reprogramming it (and, to the best of my knowledge, the Kingsong source firmware is not made available to users). At that point you might as well buy a new wheel! The only option would be to replace the cells in a removable pack as suggested above but that will not give you a huge increase in capacity for the cost it is going to be (unless you can lay your hands on a duff pack real cheap to change the cells in) It is not an amateur thing to do either the cells should be spot welded not soldered. You can see the insides of the 14B here: Changing the cells in that pack It is not something I think I could be bothered to do! Thanks, now I know to not buy a 14B, but only because I am 205 pounds. I am thinking the B to C is where the Kingsong really got better. That's when the batteries jumped up in size. Changing the battery is as easy as upgrading to a newer, more expensive model. I might be stuck with the Ninebot 320wh, unless I win the lottery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Óscar Ramos Melero Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 How is possible raise the class 3 alarm to 29 of 40?? I have to ride more than 100 Km?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryyla Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 On 12/26/2017 at 3:54 PM, Óscar Ramos Melero said: How is possible raise the class 3 alarm to 29 of 40?? I have to ride more than 100 Km?? Yes, I seem to remember I had to ride slower for the first 100km then I was allowed to increase the max speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrvfromcnr Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 On 24/01/2018 at 2:10 AM, Larryyla said: Yes, I seem to remember I had to ride slower for the first 100km then I was allowed to increase the max speed. Hello ! As far as I can remember, the max speed of the 14B is 25 kph. Every invalid alarm / tiltback config will lead to a rejecting beep while trying to validate the entry. That being said, I do remember the week I spent with a 14B... I managed to unlock the max speed to 25, and to be honest it was quite something! You have the really neat impression that you’re flirting with the limits of the machine. I remember « vibrations » back and forth near 23 kph, and also 2-3 cutoffs on crurent peaks... 20 kph is really the fastest you can quite safelly travel with this wheel! As far as you’re not heavy of course. About 72 Kg here. I confirm the 14C/840 is a huge improvement in range, ... but also in weight and thickness ... I also confirm there is an issue while turning, which leads to a unpleasant dive. I didn’t manage to fix that with calibration, neither on the 14B nor on the 14C. I read somewhere it has to see with the roll angle taken by the wheel while turning. Nrv PS: sorry for my poor English, I’m French and writing on mobile / no correction... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryyla Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 3:33 PM, nrvfromcnr said: I also confirm there is an issue while turning, which leads to a unpleasant dive. I didn’t manage to fix that with calibration, neither on the 14B nor on the 14C. I read somewhere it has to see with the roll angle taken by the wheel while turning. Nrv PS: sorry for my poor English, I’m French and writing on mobile / no correction... Your English is just fine. I have gotten used to the nosedive while turning but I look forward to being free of it with my next wheel. I'm leaning toward a KS 18. Does anyone here know if they have this tendency as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Larryyla said: Your English is just fine. I have gotten used to the nosedive while turning but I look forward to being free of it with my next wheel. I'm leaning toward a KS 18. Does anyone here know if they have this tendency as well? Nope! The newer Firmware Versions of 14d/s, 16b/s, 18AY/S dont have any dipping when turning. On the 14d and all S Versions you also get a rock hard pedal setting. Edited January 30, 2018 by KingSong69 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryyla Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 20 hours ago, KingSong69 said: Nope! The newer Firmware Versions of 14d/s, 16b/s, 18AY/S dont have any dipping when turning. On the 14d and all S Versions you also get a rock hard pedal setting. Is it possible to update the firmware of my 14b and correct the turn dip as well? I've learned to live with it but if I can correct it I would like to. When I turn tight I often scrape my shoes due to the combination of the low foot steps and the dip. Sometimes I ride it barefoot and I must be incredibly careful of the toes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryyla Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Has anyone had any experience with this type of wheel ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Martin Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 On 6/21/2017 at 8:44 PM, Larryyla said: Thank you all for weighing in and helping. Yes the seller I bought from is in Brooklyn NY and is in the kitchen and bath fixture business. I got the impression that the KS (Artwheel) 14b is the only wheel he sells, along with extra 174wh batts. A Google image search shows the entire Kingsong linup rebranded with the Artwheel logo. Silly but I think I got a pretty good deal. I had originally hoped I might be able to use the 840wh batt or I believe I saw one in the 600wh range for the KS 14c and not have to do any re-engineering. Not that I couldn't do it. I do know a little about electronics ( what I haven't forgotten ) and can solder decently. I did put a shunt on the overdischarge protection circuit of the BMS in the el-cheapo generic wheel that I learned to ride last year. But, I really do like the idea of simply dropping in the 840wh for the 14c to extend my range, unless there is a voltage difference or something else that makes it incompatible. Also, would my charger be compatible with the 840wh batt? If the answer is yes I can do that, then where might I buy the 840wh batt? I haven't seen them on ebay. I'm looking at purchasing the same wheel from the same person. It's $399. Is this a bad idea? Should I be looking at something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayRay Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, James Martin said: I'm looking at purchasing the same wheel from the same person. It's $399. Is this a bad idea? Should I be looking at something else? See comments from this thread.. IMHO, not convinced your getting the best deal for your money. (Maybe read around this forum little a bit more...) ? Edited May 18, 2018 by RayRay This is an old thread 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryyla Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 On 5/17/2018 at 9:03 PM, James Martin said: I'm looking at purchasing the same wheel from the same person. It's $399. Is this a bad idea? Should I be looking at something else? My deal went well. You can also negotiate a better deal if you call "Disco Bath" and order direct instead of Ebay. My only regret is that I really didn't have a grasp on the rider weight to motor wattage/battery capacity relationship. The result is that I must be careful to not ask too much of my KS14b so I don't get spit off it. He was selling the KS 18 when I checked a few monhts ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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