A few Ninebot questions

[SirGeraint]

I am curious, I've seen some Ninebot's coming with a Learning strap. Because Ninebots have open-ended handles how do you attach the strap?  Is there another place or is there a way to tighten in onto the handle?  Right now I think that while I am learning I would like to attach a strap (but not hold it in my hand so that I am free to flail my arms around to help me with my balance) to minimize damage to the EU as well as everything else. Then I will most like keep it on other times. 

I've read somewhere that they have a problem with the handles breaking off.  Anyone heard it it's true?  If so, then that wouldn't be a good place to attach the strap.

Lastly, if you learn on Mode 3 or 4 is it difficult to transition to Mode 0 as you get more experienced? 

 

Thanks

[Guest]

No need for a strap on my opinion I just reach down and grab the handle to dismount, also if you weren't holding the strap to be able to flail your arms then where would the strap be? dangling on the ground to run over? 
I notice the ninebot handle has some play in it but not much. I think you saw a youtube video about that or read about that (I had anyways) I havent heard of them breaking off though. 
I transition my modes every ride almost the difference is hardly noticable 3-4 just make any grassy or rock type setting a little less bumpy and more forgiving to tossing you around on the pedals during turbulence. 0 is really good for navigating populated areas . hope that helps 

[KaleOsaurusRex]

One cool thing to know about the Ninebot One euc is, you can replace the outer shell once you learn how to ride to get that clean look again.

[Guest]

I wonder how waterproof they are ? can we ride them on a rainy day? 

 

[Blunzn]

These type of belts work fine, just put the other end in your pocket and grab it if you need to.

 

you can wrap it around the grip if you want to leave it on.

there are a some video of ninebots in the rain, so shouldn't be a problem, unless you sink them in a river ;-)

 

[Noam]

I am curious, I've seen some Ninebot's coming with a Learning strap. Because Ninebots have open-ended handles how do you attach the strap?  Is there another place or is there a way to tighten in onto the handle?  Right now I think that while I am learning I would like to attach a strap (but not hold it in my hand so that I am free to flail my arms around to help me with my balance)

I have a generic 14" and I found the strap helpful in the process learning to ride the euc. Predominately to keep control of the bloody thing when I had to step off. Since I learned in our living room it prevented loads of damages at the furniture. Also the first couple of times I rode up a curb, it was too slow, I had to get off, but could prevent the euc to zoom all over the place. After a week I got rid of it and dont have the feeling that I need it anylonger.

However, a friend of mine gave me his Ninebot One for a test ride and he basically knot-tied one end of the strap to the handle. Since the strap has this bulky plastic kind of buckle, it gave me pretty good control over the euc.

Enjoy your ride!

[SirGeraint]

No need for a strap on my opinion I just reach down and grab the handle to dismount, also if you weren't holding the strap to be able to flail your arms then where would the strap be? dangling on the ground to run over? 

No, that would be silly.  Gimlet attaches a special strap that he made to his belt.  I plan to put a dog leash diagonally across my chest and attach it to the Ninebot.  And it's not for planned dismounts, but for unplanned dismounts.

One cool thing to know about the Ninebot One euc is, you can replace the outer shell once you learn how to ride to get that clean look again.

But at what cost?  I'm too cheap for that.  :-)   Besides I worry that even after I am finished with training I may still have some mishaps.

 

you can wrap it around the grip if you want to leave it on.

there are a some video of ninebots in the rain, so shouldn't be a problem, unless you sink them in a river ;-)

 

Thanks.  I will probably end up doing something similar.  I just didn't know if there was another place.

After a week I got rid of it and dont have the feeling that I need it any longer.

However, a friend of mine gave me his Ninebot One for a test ride and he basically knot-tied one end of the strap to the handle. Since the strap has this bulky plastic kind of buckle, it gave me pretty good control over the euc.

Enjoy your ride!

Thanks.  I am not sure I will ever decide not to use it.  At least right now I feel that there will always be a chance I could have an unexpected dismount and I wouldn't want the EU to go anywhere and damage anything else, anyone else or itself.  I realize there is a chance that having attached to my body could cause more damage to myself.  But I feel I should take the responsibility.

[Gimlet]

I have to admit that I only use the strap when going into town or other crowded places now. On the country lanes and out of town roads I don't bother.

It's still used a lot when teaching new riders though.                                                              Any strong cord or strap will do but preferably with a quick detach clip either end for convenience and about 2" of slack when you are standing on the pedals works well.

[mengke]

There was incident that the handle broke off but I don't think it is due to the strip use. It might occur in a fall. This is a video showing how you use a strip with Ninebot One, still doable. The riding mode 0 will feel stiffer and tiring to ride but safer in high speed and changing terrain condition because it will be more responsive. 

[Gimlet]

@mengke I'm a little confused, the video is how to change an inner tube on the tyre and not how to attach a strap.

Having watched what a hassle it is I'm glad I don't own a 9bot. It's very noticable that he doesn't check the tyre internally for the source of the puncture which of course you should always do unless you want the new tube to be punctured immediately. But I suppose he was changing out a good tube just to demonstrate the procedure. 

[dmethvin]

I plan to put a dog leash diagonally across my chest and attach it to the Ninebot.  And it's not for planned dismounts, but for unplanned dismounts.

Unplanned dismounts, I like that term.

Be careful tying yourself to the EU with a really strong strap that won't break. If your EU went out into traffic or the leash caught on something with you still tied to it, you could be seriously hurt.

[SirGeraint]

Unplanned dismounts, I like that term.

Be careful tying yourself to the EU with a really strong strap that won't break. If your EU went out into traffic or the leash caught on something with you still tied to it, you could be seriously hurt.

 

Hmmmm, maybe I will have to re-think my solution.  Maybe some industrial strength velcro in the middle.

[Gimlet]

To be honest the wheel tends to be travelling in the same direction as you during "unplanned dismounts" and an extra 15kg isn't going to affect your body weight that much. We hardly notice it.

[esaj]

an extra 15kg isn't going to affect your body weight that much.

That depends on your weight, in my case, the extra 15kg would be over 1/4th of my body mass, so it would be similar as if 90kg person tied themselves to about 25kg wheel.  That's the main reason why I'm not going tie myself to the Firewheel.

[Gimlet]

Fair enough. You obviously get much better performance from a wheel than I can with my 90+Kg then.

 

[esaj]

Fair enough. You obviously get much better performance from a wheel than I can with my 90+Kg then.

 

True that, Chriull and I did some basic (simplified) calculations about the power the motor needs to deliver at slopes in http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/478-brands-with-without-unexpected-shutdowns-new-buyers-look-here/?do=findComment&comment=5727  and  http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/478-brands-with-without-unexpected-shutdowns-new-buyers-look-here/?do=findComment&comment=5732

In my own calculations, I came to the end results that for a wheel + rider at 90kg total (so probably around 75kg person + 15kg wheel) needs at least 425,7W to go at 10km/h up a 10 degree slope (at steady speed, no acceleration), whereas myself (57kg + around 3kg for safety equipment + 13kg Firewheel = 73kg) can do the same at 345,3W. So the total mass of rider & wheel has a pretty big difference on power requirements, and those are without any rolling resistance/air drag etc. taken into account, so as hobby16 put it, lowest estimate of power. Due to losses before the electrical energy is turned into motion, the batteries need to push out even more power...

[Gimlet]

That is much more technical than I am capable of being but it does justify what I have been writing elsewhere about the importance of reducing rolling resistance by upping your tyre pressures. Have you included tyre pressure and the corresponding rolling resistance factors into uour equations at all?

[esaj]

That is much more technical than I am capable of being but it does justify what I have been writing elsewhere about the importance of reducing rolling resistance by upping your tyre pressures. Have you included tyre pressure and the corresponding rolling resistance factors into uour equations at all?

No, those are just theoretical numbers without taking into account any extra resistance while moving... kinda like riding in a vacuum with a tire, bearings, surface etc. that haven't got any resistance to movement at all.  Also, another factor that could actually lower the required power from the motor is that if you're already moving at constant speed (vs. getting going from standstill), you body and the wheels' mass have some forward momentum, which does help propelling you forward, but especially when going uphill, that's not going to last and must be "augmented" by the motor to keep going, but I'd expect the motor doesn't need to push out the entire power all the time, but some comes just from the forward momentum (at least when starting to go uphill)...

hobby16 also pointed out in the "Brands without unexpected shutdowns..."-topic that when leaving out rolling resistance, air drag etc., you should be theoretically able to keep a constant speed with no power (0 watts) used from the motor when going straight on level ground because of the forward momentum energy.  That's the problem with theoretical numbers, unless you can account for all the factors that affect the situation, the reality can be very different.   That's why empirical testing always beats just crunching numbers, although with complex enough equations (which those in the topic definitely are not), you could probably land very close to the real thing. Best way to get real numbers would be adding a power (watt)-meter to the battery wires or the motors' power lines.

[Gimlet]

From experience and feedback through the wheel I would say that surfaces that give you a constant resistance/velocity for a given power are rare. Most have dips and bumps that must cause the balancing element of the motor control to use huge amounts of extra energy to keep you upright. It has been documented elsewhere that it requires a lot of power to idle on a wheel, which is basically continuous reversal of small amounts of monentum. Every dip and bump you meet must require these minor adjustments of increasing or reversing power in order to keep you balanced and I'm sure that many people here don't appreciate that fact.

[esaj]

From experience and feedback through the wheel I would say that surfaces that give you a constant resistance/velocity for a given power are rare. Most have dips and bumps that must cause the balancing element of the motor control to use huge amounts of extra energy to keep you upright. It has been documented elsewhere that it requires a lot of power to idle on a wheel, which is basically continuous reversal of small amounts of monentum. Every dip and bump you meet must require these minor adjustments of increasing or reversing power in order to keep you balanced and I'm sure that many people here don't appreciate that fact.

Exactly, there are very many factors affecting the needed amount of power, and many of them are changing constantly while riding (head/tail wind, surfaces, bumps, uphill, downhill, ambient and component temperatures etc). That's why it would be interesting to see real world numbers of how much voltage/current the motor is drawing during riding. I was planning on adding a voltage display to the battery wires when I get the custom packs, maybe I should go for current display too (if I can find a suitable one). Of course if they measure the voltage / current coming from the battery, they still don't tell exactly how much of that ends up into the motor and onwards onto actual motion, and how much is lost otherwise (mostly transformed to heat). Also knowing the REAL constant / peak power of the motors would be interesting, but that would probably need dynamometer for testing. Anyone got one lying around?

[Gimlet]

Unfortunately dynamometers being large Immobile pieces of equipment are normally indoors so there goes your varying wind resistance, and the rollers tend to be smooth so there goes the bumpy undulating surface. So how do you get the equivalent of the continuous balancong adjustment power usage? I thing you definately need all the logging equipment to be portable enough to be used in real life situations.

[esaj]

Unfortunately dynamometers being large Immobile pieces of equipment are normally indoors so there goes your varying wind resistance, and the rollers tend to be smooth so there goes the bumpy undulating surface. So how do you get the equivalent of the continuous balancong adjustment power usage? I thing you definately need all the logging equipment to be portable enough to be used in real life situations.

True, the dynamometer would only be useful to see the maximum constant and maximum peak power the motor can produce in more "optimal" conditions. Unfortunately also building telemetry-devices for recording the ride are way beyond my very insufficient electronics comprehension. Also additional data, like current speed, altitude from sea level (to see how inclines and declines affect), wind speeds (air speed) etc would be useful for more precise analyzing of the data, but even voltage and current -logging (and from those, power) would be useful to understand real world situations better. I write software, but don't understand hardware at that level. I could maybe create something fairly rudimentary with something like a Atmel Atmega- or Raspberry Pi -board... Hopefully someone with more skills in the field can build "real" telemetrics to a wheel some day.

[Jag_Rip]

Just my 2 cents on the strap: Learn it without a strap, it takes you 10 minutes more, but you dont get used to something that you want to get rid of again later. Same goes with training wheels. Better go and buy a pair of really comfy wristguards for those unplanned dismounts

[Guest]

Figured instead of starting a new thread I'd use this one as it is titled appropriately 

would there be a way to rig this up to work on the ninebot http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Window+Mounted+Solar&linkCode=sl2&tag=interfacts0b-20&linkId=cfc5e8cf68e7a34ccb50c75440f83dc7

[esaj]

Figured instead of starting a new thread I'd use this one as it is titled appropriately 

would there be a way to rig this up to work on the ninebot http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Window+Mounted+Solar&linkCode=sl2&tag=interfacts0b-20&linkId=cfc5e8cf68e7a34ccb50c75440f83dc7

If you're thinking of recharging your wheel by solar panels, forget about it... My Firewheel charger gives off about 130W (67.2V and around 1.75-2A), and takes 2.5 hours to charge the 260Wh battery from empty to full. Here's what I wrote about using solar panels to charge the wheel in another topic:

You could also maybe cover the wheel in solar panels, but they would break easily in falls and probably don't provide that much power... direct sunlight gives something like around 1.4kW / square meter (10.76 square feet) at best, but the efficiencies of the available panels are usually far below 20% of that, and they would be partially shaded/covered by your legs while you ride. Just as an example, some random panel I pulled off from Google gives out 15W and is 41x35x2.5cm (about 16" x 13.8" x 1"). 

The ones you linked are probably around 1 to 5W? One of those I checked says it takes 13 hours to fully charge a single 1800mAh cell (4.2V * 1.8Ah = 7.56Wh), and Ninebot One E+ has 320Wh battery...

Edit: Sorry if I sounded blunt above, but the idea of charging the wheel batteries with solar panels just doesn't work, as the panels cannot give off enough energy... it would take a looooong time to charge your wheel from small panels alone, so you'd be just wasting your money. Different matter if you have lots and/or large panels, for example in the roof of your house or yard, but then you can't recharge while riding/away.

Edit2: Another problem is that while 4.2V is enough to charge a single cell, but with 15 or 16 cells in series, you'll need 63-67.2V, so you'd need to build some sort of voltage raising circuitry also, before it would even work for charging a wheel battery.