v5f+ to msuper v3 comparison

[stevenvo]

I'm owning an Inmotion v5f+ and considering upgrade to msuper v3. The v5f+ is great, flexible in turning and quite light weight. I've not seen or tried a Msuper v3. If anyone has upgraded to the MSuper v3 can you share some thoughts on the riding experience, turning, braking, feeling etc. that will be a great help.

Thanks

[houseofjob]

FYI @logos122 can chime in as he now owns both these wheels.

 

IMHO I really don't think "upgrade" is the appropriate word here. 

These 2 wheels serve totally different and opposite purposes, both being at the top of their respective classes. (they actually complement each other well in tandem)

Case in point: obviously, going fast and far are the MSuper3's strong suits, but if I'm running store to store city errands (less than a few miles apart) with the occasional need to stow away my wheel in tight spaces (restaurants, trains, etc.), and lift up and carry my wheel (stairs), the V5F+ is way better suited for that than the ~50 lb MSuper3.

 

Being fortunate enough to have tried @logos122's new MSuper3s+ 1600WH 84V over this weekend (thx!), my immediate reaction, as a V5F+ owner,  was how smooth (some would term it "soft") the driving reaction of the MSuper3 pedals were.

If leveraging the pedals on the V5F+ is like pushing up against a brick wall, then doing the same on the MSuper3 (on the hardest setting) is like pushing up against peanut butter. This is great for acceleration, which feels like nothing on the MSuper3 (even when clocking in the 30-40+ kph range) but on the braking side, the response is just as soft, which makes for a much softer and slower braking FWIW. The MSuper3 braking response definitely necessitates planning much more ahead than on the V5F+, esp in case of sudden mishaps.

Another immediate takeaway I had on the MSuper3 was how there is a bit of a rock back and forth on the pedals, even when continuously accelerating straight forward. This is not like the rock of the V5F+ pedals, which only happens when switching from accelerating forward to braking, or vice-versa.

Turning does take more hip action on the 18" MSuper3 compared to the V5F+, and the MSuper3 obviously does not have the swivel turn action that the V5F+ has, as evidenced by my attempt to do the same 180º turn in place that I can do on my V5 (which resulted in minor pedal scrape). But I am not a subscriber, like many here, of an 18" wheel being that much harder to turn; you just have to initiate it from a higher part of your body (hips) compared to a smaller 14" V5F+ (ie. no lazy turning, more active).

 

Ultimately, everything about the MSuper3 screams speed, and you'll excuse the soft and slower braking for the thrill of accelerating upwards of 40kph and beyond like it's nothing! Just don't expect any of the driving response and feel of the V5F+; they are polar opposites in those areas.

 

All that said, I can't wait to get my Monster 22" 1600WH order in!, and even then, I will never rid myself of having a V5 in my stable of wheels (until a different ultra-portable 14" wheel comes in and tops it).

[nomad]

Comparing these two wheels for me I'd say the V5F+ is like a rally car while the v3 is like a jeep... I'm about 70kg and the V5F+ can push out some real g-force sensations when accelerating and some crazy leaning high speed turns with the stiffer response and the oval pedal shape! The v3 didn't give me any such feeling but I didn't mod it for better accel.. For 80kg and up riders I'd not recommend the V5F+ so much though because it starts to feel a bit weak if I put on a 10kg backpack. Some of my thoughts here too:

 

[Citi Wheel]

Yeah I agree with @houseofjob. These are almost mutually exclusive wheels. The way I've found myself picking which one to ride based on how far the trip is. Less than 2 miles/15 minutes of riding I tend to pick the V5F+. Over that, I pick the Msuper3 because of the more comfortable ride. 

[phatmike]

I'm in the same situation: two months with the V5F+ (that I love it) and I'm thinking about another wheel with different qualities (faster and with more range). I was thinking about the super v3 but I'm very interested in the (new) Kingsong 18 a. So basically I can't decide between the super v3 and the Kingsong 18 A. Any info are appreciated. Thanks.

[Donafello]

10 hours ago, houseofjob said:

FYI @logos122 can chime in as he now owns both these wheels.

 

IMHO I really don't think "upgrade" is the appropriate word here. 

These 2 wheels serve totally different and opposite purposes, both being at the top of their respective classes. (they actually complement each other well in tandem)

Case in point: obviously, going fast and far are the MSuper3's strong suits, but if I'm running store to store city errands (less than a few miles apart) with the occasional need to stow away my wheel in tight spaces (restaurants, trains, etc.), and lift up and carry my wheel (stairs), the V5F+ is way better suited for that than the ~50 lb MSuper3.

 

Being fortunate enough to have tried @logos122's new MSuper3s+ 1600WH 84V over this weekend (thx!), my immediate reaction, as a V5F+ owner,  was how smooth (some would term it "soft") the driving reaction of the MSuper3 pedals were.

If leveraging the pedals on the V5F+ is like pushing up against a brick wall, then doing the same on the MSuper3 (on the hardest setting) is like pushing up against peanut butter. This is great for acceleration, which feels like nothing on the MSuper3 (even when clocking in the 30-40+ kph range) but on the braking side, the response is just as soft, which makes for a much softer and slower braking FWIW. The MSuper3 braking response definitely necessitates planning much more ahead than on the V5F+, esp in case of sudden mishaps.

Another immediate takeaway I had on the MSuper3 was how there is a bit of a rock back and forth on the pedals, even when continuously accelerating straight forward. This is not like the rock of the V5F+ pedals, which only happens when switching from accelerating forward to braking, or vice-versa.

Turning does take more hip action on the 18" MSuper3 compared to the V5F+, and the MSuper3 obviously does not have the swivel turn action that the V5F+ has, as evidenced by my attempt to do the same 180º turn in place that I can do on my V5 (which resulted in minor pedal scrape). But I am not a subscriber, like many here, of an 18" wheel being that much harder to turn; you just have to initiate it from a higher part of your body (hips) compared to a smaller 14" V5F+ (ie. no lazy turning, more active).

 

Ultimately, everything about the MSuper3 screams speed, and you'll excuse the soft and slower braking for the thrill of accelerating upwards of 40kph and beyond like it's nothing! Just don't expect any of the driving response and feel of the V5F+; they are polar opposites in those areas.

 

All that said, I can't wait to get my Monster 22" 1600WH order in!, and even then, I will never rid myself of having a V5 in my stable of wheels (until a different ultra-portable 14" wheel comes in and tops it).

When you say a rock back and forth from the pedals what do you mean. Is it like a clicking type of noise?

[e_kjellgren]

Anyone compared to the V8?

[Cerbera]

Just now, Donafello said:

When you say a rock back and forth from the pedals what do you mean. Is it like a clicking type of noise?

No it doesn't make any noise, it's just in the feel of the pedals - there seems to be a 'null area' around the center of balance, so your foot has to rotate further forward or back before it starts affecting the wheel. It is an odd sensation to get used to, but very comfortable once you are used to it. Having said that, if I could turn it off, I might.

[Donafello]

Just now, Cerbera said:

No it doesn't make any noise, it's just in the feel of the pedals - there seems to be a 'null area' around the center of balance, so your foot has to rotate further forward or back before it starts affecting the wheel. It is an odd sensation to get used to, but very comfortable once you are used to it. Having said that, if I could turn it off, I might.

Yeah that happens on all my msupers to date. Including my 1640wh V3

[Cerbera]

11 minutes ago, Donafello said:

Yeah that happens on all my msupers to date. Including my 1640wh V3

It is a bit of a shame that is the case, because they could use that area of play to channel into forward power so we could get up hills without having to add pedal extensions, and into braking, so we don't have to move so much to do it fast. Really that is my only criticism of the MSupers - they are still, in most circumstances, extremely rewarding to ride.

[Citi Wheel]

51 minutes ago, e_kjellgren said:

Anyone compared to the V8?

@houseofjob was on a V8 when we were riding this weekend. Thoughts?

[houseofjob]

2 hours ago, logos122 said:

@houseofjob was riding a V8 when we were riding. Thoughts?

@e_kjellgren Now that I have just about almost 2 months with the V8 as my daily driver, I would say the V8, predictably, sides much closer to it's V5 counterpart than the MSuper3 in this comparison, with some caveats (need to post a V5F+ vs V8 comparison some time).

 

The V8 sports the same brick wall, hard response and swivel-style turning that I quoted previously on the V5F+. 

Where these 2 InMotion wheels differ is mainly in the acceleration responses.

The V8, while still a very hard pedal response, makes you work and really push your balance momentum to achieve acceleration up to top speeds (i.e. resistance against acceleration). I equate this feeling with squeezing a fat rubber noodle through a tight plastic tube. As a result, I naturally don't hit top speed and tiltback quite as often as I do on my V5F+, unless I am really trying.

In contrast, the V5F+, with the same hard pedal response, feels like there is very little resistance against acceleration (albeit, up to a lower top speed). It kind of hums along and hits the tiltback wall / threshold much more frequently as I naturally want to go faster than it's top speed, due again, to the more ease in acceleration.

 

And in contrast to both InMotion wheels, the MSuper3s+ feels, again, like the opposite, very fluid, like your pedal weight is moving through and against a vat of smooth peanut butter, ie. more a resistance in the sense of moving through viscous liquid, not pressing against a solid object (V5 & V8).

As a result, you don't have the sensation / satisfaction of hard equal pressure against the pedals = proportional and equal degree of acceleration. Rather, your balance momentum kind of swims forward, and the MSuper3 just starts floating exponentially up the acceleration ladder with what feels like no effort.

 

And again, on the flipside, the braking is the same floaty initiation and response on the MSuper3 as the acceleration is, so overall brake response is much slower than on either InMotions wheels (which are traditional "hard brakers", although, FWIW you should never really be braking too hard on any EUC, as this can lead to current overpower, and thus, motor-protection cutoff).

IMHO, it's imperative that you plan your braking in advance and pay even more attention to all sight lines for unexpected variables (bikers, children running about aimlessly, etc), especially when traveling at the top speeds that the MSuper3 line is able to achieve.

[Cerbera]

Just now, houseofjob said:

And in contrast to both InMotion wheels, the MSuper3s+ feels, again, like the opposite, very fluid, like your pedal weight is moving through and against a vat of smooth peanut butter, ie. more a resistance in the sense of moving through viscous liquid, not pressing against a solid object (V5 & V8).

As a result, you don't have the sensation / satisfaction of hard equal pressure against the pedals = proportional and equal degree of acceleration. Rather, your balance momentum kind of swims forward, and the MSuper3 just starts floating exponentially up the acceleration ladder with what feels like no effort.

That is the best description I have yet read on what the MS feels like to ride, except I'd go for golden syrup instead of peanut butter. It really is VERY smooth and swimmy

[houseofjob]

4 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

That is the best description I have yet read on what the MS feels like to ride, except I'd go for golden syrup instead of peanut butter. It really is VERY smooth and swimmy

Nice! might "borrow" your syrup for next time!

 

[Cerbera]

5 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Nice! might "borrow" your syrup for next time!

You're most welcome

[nomad]

If I had not crashed my 67.2V Msuper v3, I might have kept it after all! But now 84V Msuper is out so I have to recommend that, at least I won't buy another 67.2V.. But it would not be my only daily choice, the big ass Msuper would be more of a weekend free time ride and my V5F+ would be the more versatile portable choice and also great for nice quiet rides without that Gotway noise. For me putting on a ton of protection (and sacrificing portability) makes no sense if the performance is not rewarding and makes up for all the added bulk, so might as well go for the best version!

And one important point, even if it can do 40 km/h without overload all day long (only 84V) I'm not sure I trust myself to wear full protection for such speeds at all times! If the speed is available well the risk is I might use it, and that day you don't wear all the gear, that's the day you go to the hospital...

For an 'upgrade' you might want to hold out for the KS16S that could be a great portable all-round wheel (I think the V8 is a little too big and the ACM trolley is not great)

[houseofjob]

34 minutes ago, nomad said:

and my V5F+ would be the more versatile portable choice and also great for nice quiet rides without that Gotway noise.

Great point! I definitely appreciate being whisper quiet on my InMotions so I can get by pedestrians with their backs to me before they can realize I'm even riding an EUC (and before they can resort to dear-in-headlight syndrome, blocking my every move).

34 minutes ago, nomad said:

I'm not sure I trust myself to wear full protection for such speeds at all times! If the speed is available well the risk is I might use it, and that day you don't wear all the gear, that's the day you go to the hospital...

Another great point! I'm not trying to gear up for my last mile morning work commute, so the V5F+ doesn't allow me to reach a speed where I would be hurt to that degree.

Also I have noticed that the increased top speed on my V8 has lead to faster riding amongst pedestrians, something I'm actually trying to avoid (going along the lines of saving me from myself).

34 minutes ago, nomad said:

For an 'upgrade' you might want to hold out for the KS16S that could be a great portable all-round wheel (I think the V8 is a little too big and the ACM trolley is not great)

I don't really understand this comment.

The V8 is the lightest 16" EUC currently on the market at 30 lbs., and thinner than the KS16, as the smaller, singularly enclosed 460wH battery pack sits atop the wheel, as opposed to the KS16, where the battery packs are split down each leg side, making the EUC wider. The same goes for the ACM, as this is a function of having more battery packs and needing more space to place them.

If anything, you can say the V8 is a tad too tall, but both KS16 and ACM are bigger, or better, bulkier EUCs.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

4 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Nice! might "borrow" your syrup for next time!

 

  Coming from a Ninebot One E+ rider, I don't know whether to ride the MSuper or slap some waffles & pancakes on it, and call it breakfast?  I think it's the only wheel that reading reviews about it makes me hungry for some food!   

Maybe this would be a good accessory to bring along on an MSuper ride:

[houseofjob]

Just now, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

  Coming from a Ninebot One E+ rider, I don't know whether to ride the MSuper or slap some waffles & pancakes on it, and call it breakfast?  I think it's the only wheel that reading reviews about it makes me hungry for some food!   

Waffles and pancakes are round, EUCs are round..... just sayin' = )

[stevenvo]

23 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Case in point: obviously, going fast and far are the MSuper3's strong suits, but if I'm running store to store city errands (less than a few miles apart) with the occasional need to stow away my wheel in tight spaces (restaurants, trains, etc.), and lift up and carry my wheel (stairs), the V5F+ is way better suited for that than the ~50 lb MSuper3.

 

Very insightful, this "V5F v.s. mSuper v3" review is exactly what I want to know from who already owned or tried both wheels.  Thanks @houseofjob!

The reason I asked is because a long ride with the V5F+ (45 minutes or more) causes some slight discomfort and pain in my foot which I have to rest for a while then it will go away. I'm using the V5F+ for short commutes between home-work, which is around ~2 miles, so I guess I won't need the mSuper V3 for now. 

[houseofjob]

9 hours ago, stevenvo said:

Very insightful, this "V5F v.s. mSuper v3" review is exactly what I want to know from who already owned or tried both wheels.  Thanks @houseofjob!

The reason I asked is because a long ride with the V5F+ (45 minutes or more) causes some slight discomfort and pain in my foot which I have to rest for a while then it will go away. I'm using the V5F+ for short commutes between home-work, which is around ~2 miles, so I guess I won't need the mSuper V3 for now. 

No sweat~

Foot pain on long rides has been well covered on the forums.

The most effective methods to lessen foot pain is to wear stiffer soled shoes (like rubber soled sneakers, hard bottomed shoes, or boots) and / or positioning your foot / feet so that the rear ball of the foot sits closer to the middle of the pedal(s).

Of late, I've resorted to a mixed positioning where one foot sits centered on one pedal and the other sits more with the ball of the foot centered, and I slightly favor my weight on one foot when the other starts hurting.