KingSong 18a 1360wh top speed fail 3

[Alex_U]

This summer I posted a topic called "King Song 18a 1360wh top speed fall": please check it below for reference.

 

Then it happened again (my should completely recovered in 6 weeks).

Today it happened for the 3rd time and I was lucky to capture it on video. Fail speed: 37-38 kmh. It started beeping on this speed, after that the wheel could not resist my forward leaning and slowly tilted forward until a complete fall. This time I was completely dressed and it really helped save my skin. Firmware is 1.20 (just now found out that 1.22 was released). Check this out:

 

[fearedbliss]

Umm.. you are going way too fast, obviously it's going to overlean. The 18a from what I remember has a recommended speed of 25 kph. Maybe you can push to 30 kph but I don't recommend it. Going over 30 is just asking for trouble.

[US69]

6 minutes ago, fearedbliss said:

Umm.. you are going way too fast, obviously it's going to overlean. The 18a from what I remember has a recommended speed of 25 kph. Maybe you can push to 30 kph but I don't recommend it. Going over 30 is just asking for trouble.

we are talkng here about the Ks18 1200watt which is rated at 40kmh Speed max!

30kmh is for the "old" 800watt version...

[fearedbliss]

They need to change the rating then. I wouldn't feel comfortable going above 30 kph on any wheel even if it was rated for it. It's just too dangerous and you can't slow down that quick if something gets in your way. Let alone if your wheel starts to lose balance due to something on the floor, you will not have enough time.to recover. As a rule of thumb, going at those speeds on any wheel isn't good, and I'm a strong supporter of banning any wheels above 30 kph. Hopefully once EUCs and other devices receive more legislation, we can get a ban on higher speeds. But hopefully they don't low ball it and make everything go at like 10 mph.

[US69]

@Alex_U

you have a heart time learining, or? i see it as follows:

you can always make a fault....but try not to repeat it :-) 

So this is the third time you have a highspeed fall...and when i see the ground/bottom, where you tried to run that fast, i can only say, this must have happend, sorry!

driving at about 38kmh(dont know batteriestate) is riding on a "blade"....but on this bumpy ground it is riding on a razor blade...little bump and you go flying...

but i am happy that you are Ok! and that nothing happend to you...good roll to prevent injuries by the way ;-)

 

6 minutes ago, fearedbliss said:

They need to change the rating then. I wouldn't feel comfortable going above 30 kph on any wheel even if it was rated for it. It's just too dangerous and you can't slow down that quick if something gets in your way. Let alone if your wheel starts to lose balance due to something on the floor, you will not have enough time.to recover. As a rule of thumb, going at those speeds on any wheel isn't good, and I'm a strong supporter of banning any wheels above 30 kph. Hopefully once EUCs and other devices receive more legislation, we can get a ban on higher speeds. But hopefully they don't low ball it and make everything go at like 10 mph.

Kinsong restricted the speed under 50%batterie to 30kmh...

but as i have written above, on such a grumpy, bumpy, gras road riding on the edge is just asking for a faceplant

my 2 cents...

[US69]

6 minutes ago, fearedbliss said:

They need to change the rating then. I wouldn't feel comfortable going above 30 kph on any wheel even if it was rated for it. It's just too dangerous and you can't slow down that quick if something gets in your way. Let alone if your wheel starts to lose balance due to something on the floor, you will not have enough time.to recover. As a rule of thumb, going at those speeds on any wheel isn't good, and I'm a strong supporter of banning any wheels above 30 kph. Hopefully once EUCs and other devices receive more legislation, we can get a ban on higher speeds. But hopefully they don't low ball it and make everything go at like 10 mph.

In general i am much with you...just that i do not want any regulation :-)

i have a ks18 1200w and a msuperv3....and everything over 30-32 kmh does not feel comfortable any more and i do only ride for 35-38 on very flat roads, no obstacles in the front, and for very, very short time....if at all

But i like to have the more powerful units to have a bigger powerreserve at 27-30, which is a very good cruising speed( on good streets)....

so as  said in another thread also: for me the "racegame" is over...i have what i want, and dont need any faster wheels!

i am also very bored now, on statements of owners, which ride on the very last max speed or over, even pushing over the tiltback or last beeps, and then complain and whine about the wheel not braking good or fast enough, shutting down, faceplanting, and blaming everything for this, mostly the manufacter....but never ever their own behavior.....( did NOT mean this thread Op=Alex!)

 

[Greg Spalding]

alex,

why did you show us this?

i'm not trying to offend, but honestly, you were ASKING TO FALL the way you were riding that KS18

that wheel was NEVER meant to be traveling at THAT speed in THAT environment

while i agree that A FEW BEEPS before failing isn't quite right (i'd like to see how YOU adjusting the beep/alarm setting through the app before i comment further on THIS topic)

-----------------

especially after this has happened to you before.... why the hell did you do this again?

i mean folks who see us ride who don't understand will commonly say:  "you must have a death wish to get on that thing."

well, you might have a "face plant wish" to do this again

________________

most importantly, i'm NOT trying to offend you

i want you to live a productive life on this earth long beyond your EUC RIDING DAYS

please don't do this again

ON ANY WHEEL

IMHO, of course

[OliverH]

4 hours ago, Alex_U said:

This summer I posted a topic called "King Song 18a 1360wh top speed fall": please check it below for reference.

 

Then it happened again (my should completely recovered in 6 weeks).

Today it happened for the 3rd time and I was lucky to capture it on video. Fail speed: 37-38 kmh. It started beeping on this speed, after that the wheel could not resist my forward leaning and slowly tilted forward until a complete fall. This time I was completely dressed and it really helped save my skin. Firmware is 1.20 (just now found out that 1.22 was released). Check this out:

 

You're like my son. He needs several attempts to be sure there's something wrong how to use things. You're doing it the scientific way: You repeat it several time and no one can say this fail it's not typical.

It's like an IT developer who compiles bad code and getting an error message compiling this code. He does it several times to make sure it's not a compiler run failure.

No EUC currently has enough torque to do it the way like you drive your KS18. But respect how you manage to fall and it looks like you get not injured. Think of you fall this way on street and a car behind you could not pass by... Just happened in Asia. It's your last action than.

[OneWheel]

2 hours ago, Alex_U said:

This summer I posted a topic called "King Song 18a 1360wh top speed fall": please check it below for reference.

 

Then it happened again (my should completely recovered in 6 weeks).

Today it happened for the 3rd time and I was lucky to capture it on video. Fail speed: 37-38 kmh. It started beeping on this speed, after that the wheel could not resist my forward leaning and slowly tilted forward until a complete fall. This time I was completely dressed and it really helped save my skin. Firmware is 1.20 (just now found out that 1.22 was released). Check this out:

 

It is a great way to fall without getting injured. Reminds me to wear my chest amour all the time. Thanks for sharing the video.

[DS]

@Alex_U Your video looks like of EUC Extreme videos, just you are much less protected. It seems that you are enjoying to test the limits.

I found this video very informative of what happens with a human body as it falls at that speed.

Have on mind, please, as recommended by other forum members above that you can't be lucky all the times, so take care and thanks for sharing.

[Alex_U]

52 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

driving at about 38kmh(dont know batteriestate) is riding on a "blade"....but on this bumpy ground it is riding on a razor blade...little bump and you go flying...

Battery was at 68%. This road on video was not bumpy. Bumpy is when you roll and lift off the ground. Don't think I don't make conclusions.

My first fail was at 40 kmh while rolling downhill and pushing forward hard. Wheel was continuously beeping and cut off after a few seconds at full speed. My countermeasures were:

1. Lower speed limit from 40 to 37 kmh.

2. After hearing the beeping, stop pushing forward but maintain the speed.

It did help, but my second fail was in different circumstances: I rolled uphill at around 35 kmh, pushed hard forward and jumped on a bump. It did not beep before the bump, beeped on the bump and then cut off. I had no time to react and to tilt back. I had no time to even make a few steps as during this 3rd time on the video - time frame was too short. Very tough fail - broke my left shoulder, could not lift my pants up with left hand, but did not go see doctor, completely recovered in 6 weeks without any troubles (6 weeks is the same exact time my body needs to reconstruct my bones).

My counter measures were:

1. Remain speed limit at 37 kmh.

2. Slow down at bumpy road.

3. Do not push hard while rolling uphill.

My third fail you saw: absolutely flat non-slippery road, no bumps. I rolled at a speed of 35 kmh ish, pushed forward hard, gathered 37kmh, heard the beeps and simultaneously felt that wheel stopped resisting my forward push. I repeat: it did not beep before - it beeped and lost started losing balance simultaneously. I had no time to react and tilt back, but this time time I made two steps after jump off and it really helped me. A roll on the grass after was a well-done multiple time repeated hint - a matter of technique as we say in Russia. No hands stretched out, head pulled into the body, pulled my self together, grouped - as trained when falling while skiing.

My counter-measures will be:

1. Update from 1.20 to 1.22 - done.

2. Lower speed limit to 36 kmh - think on it.

3. Do not push forward hard for any reason - I'll probably stop doing that.

So I am not like a program tester. Conditions are always different, though it may look like they are the same, as someone wrote here. I don't think it is that simple with program testing either, their conditions are different as well, I think.

[Jose Otal]

this very well this video, which can be seen as a standart fall of the wheel and learn to protect themselves from falls, every day there acidentes cars, motorbikes, bicycles or walking the dog (you can see on youtube) and I do not think it necessary to make a drama, watch the video or the like and learn all things, I do not agree modifications to ask only for exceptional cases why not start with the car accident?

[Alex_U]

46 minutes ago, DS said:

I found this video very informative of what happens with a human body as it falls at that speed.

Check it slowed 4x down:

 

[Jason McNeil]

@Alex_U have you contacted either the reseller, or KS if purchased directly, about getting an upgraded board? When we ordered our KS18s, only the 800W motors were available & they were locked at 30kph in the App, but only ~25Kph GPS. Another reason I haven't pulled the trigger on the 1200Ws, is because despite KS stone-walling, I've refused to buy more until there proven stable & safe real 30kph for the previous 800W batch. They sent some replacement KS18 boards that are reputed to achieve the speed for which they are advertised for.

In complete agreement with you: they sold this Wheel as a 40Kph capable Wheel, how is it possible the cut-off point is only 35kph? How were you monitoring the speed? GPS, through the App? It looks reproducible, so I'd like to hear from KS why they didn't adequately test a nominative part of the Wheel's specification.   

[Alex_U]

1 minute ago, Jason McNeil said:

@Alex_U have you contacted either the reseller, or KS if purchased directly, about getting an upgraded board?

Don't think it is possible. They give a toy, you test it. My Samsung S7 edge could not connect to it through the latest colorful app, so I use may Samsung Note 3 to connect to it. But all of a sudden due to bug in code I could override the top speed limit from 20 to 40 kmh without any troubles and that is exactly what I did. EUC is a new device and we are all just risky users. You should know it before you give it a try. Don't blame anyone, life is just. In return I have unforgettable events and experience in my life after this summer and autumn. 1399 km behind after today since this June.

Cut off at 37 kmh was possible, because battery was 68% charged and almost 30 times recharged since the beginning of use (it's not new in other words).

Why they did not adequately test it? Dude, they still do, and we are the free will testers :o)

[Jason McNeil]

12 minutes ago, Alex_U said:

Don't blame anyone, life is just. In return I have unforgettable events and experience in my life after this summer and autumn.

Ok, but there is a new control-board, if I were in your position, I would definitely want to have a larger safety margin. 

[Alex_U]

2 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Ok, but there is a new control-board.

The shop, where I bought it, won't give me a board neither for free nor for money, I guess. Is it possible to somehow contact Chinese guys to order it directly from manufacturer?

And why do you think my KS18a has an old board?

[Jason McNeil]

6 minutes ago, Alex_U said:

And why do you think my KS18a has an old board?

Because it's brand new, like only a month old.

[US69]

@Jason McNeil

@Alex_U

Some insights from my experiences with the KS18a 1200watt:

i received my wheel, when the first "highspeed cutouts" where reported...and been very careful with highspeed driving and pushing over 30kmh!

i also noticed that especially MY!!! wheel has only a max lift off cut out off about 45-46kmh on 100%...going a little more down on lower batterie! now the interesting point:

After several communications with KS...and checking all other parts of the wheel, like batterie, board etc....the statement from Ks was: As the motors of Ks18 are handmade it seams i have "unfortunatly" one of the "weaker" motors...with not such a highspeed as usual (others reported lift off of 48-50kmh at full batterie, which i found btw much to low also)

As i have ordered my wheel in China(1200€ instead of 2300€)  did NOT make an big story out of it, as i also never wanted to go higher than 30/32kmh....and other that my wheel seams to be not 40kmh able i love it as no other wheel i have !!!

Also Ks politics is...to see ALL imported wheel from chinese seller .....as "totally illegal"....the only reason why KS speaks/communicates about this wheel with me at all, was that i boughtt until then every wheel of Ks -and that in diffenrent states...global customer i say: Ks14(france), ks16(thailand)!ks18(china).....

so Alex_ will have as good as no chance to get a new board...or even speak with Ks about it!

And please....do not teach me that buying from a local seller instead would have been better...first i know :-) but second the price difference was so big, that i have some more wheels from the saved money...i want to say i was knowing what i have done :-)

Post is more to give Ks18 buyers attention to max lift off speed and highspeed capabilities....

[Alex_U]

9 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

i also noticed that especially MY!!! wheel has only a max lift off cut out off about 45-46kmh on 100%...going a little more down on lower battery!

My cutoff speed is 45-46 kmh as well.

[Jason McNeil]

14 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

And please....do not teach me that buying from a local seller instead would have been better...first i know :-) but second the price difference was so big, that i have some more wheels from the saved money...i want to say i was knowing what i have done :-)

Come on @KingSong69 you should know me better than to assume this of me...  Why would I be on the forums giving advice that has no benefit whatsoever? I've been to the KS factory several times, I can tell you confidently, as no doubt you know,  that the process of assembling a KS18 for a Domestic customer is identical to the exports, with the exception of the padding label. 

The 'Total Illegal' stuff is nonsense, it's just a matter of support. If one chooses to import from Ali, then it's unfair to expect ask/expect to be supported in the local country/region. I'll test the cut-off speed of this latest board.

[US69]

1 hour ago, Alex_U said:

My cutoff speed is 45-46 kmh as well.

That is to low! so be also careful to drive on the limits...

Ks has said 48-50 is minimum.....

[US69]

55 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Come on @KingSong69 you should know me better than to assume this of me...  Why would I be on the forums giving advice that has no benefit whatsoever? I've been to the KS factory several times, I can tell you confidently, as no doubt you know,  that the process of assembling a KS18 for a Domestic customer is identical to the exports, with the exception of the padding label. 

The 'Total Illegal' stuff is nonsense, it's just a matter of support. If one chooses to import from Ali, then it's unfair to expect ask/expect to be supported in the local country/region. I'll test the cut-off speed of this latest board.

????

i didnt accuse you of anything, or? or assume anything...thats a missunderstanding, sorry! But:

To the total illegal stuff:

KS forbids its chinese sellers to export the wheels, they have an strict policy of dividing the market to export and home! one of the reasons why chinese wheels have a "KS-wheels" logo....Point! 2 months before they even stated that in an article with paragraphs on their website...unfortunatly the link does not work anymore.....

when i communicated then to KS about general ks18 questions.....and later send them my serial number, when they asked for....i got exact this answer from Tina: your wheel is illegal!

I did NEVER want anything from Kingsong, like new motor, board, etc, just want to have answered some general question, why some/much of the KS18 fail to deliver the announced speed! Like i said...if i want something of warranty, i know i have to go to my seller...and that for saving money i have some disadvantages....

Also: tina stated in this Emails, that "export" wheels got far more qualitychecks and that ..."only the export wheels" are superior-quality.....

to anyone who dont believe, i can bring  up the emails here...no prob!

i also found this "statement" not really believable, as to set up to 2 kind of qualitymessurements is even more expensive...but: about 80% of the wheel failures in "ks18 highspeed crash" are from aliexpress-chinese wheels. thats a fact!

 

So the only thing is for ks18 owners:

check your lift up speed

Dont ride on the blade of max speed...

 

[Jason McNeil]

15 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

i also found this "statement" not really believable, as to set up to 2 kind of qualitymessurements is even more expensive...but: about 80% of the wheel failures in "ks18 highspeed crash" are from aliexpress-chinese wheels. thats a fact

Yeah, I don't buy it, unless all the 'rejects' go to Ali Sellers  kidding... 

[US69]

OK, i also was just kidding :-)

wasn' t 2 qualitymeasurements...it have been 3:

 

original quote of KS Sales Manager Tina wong:

"

But our oversea market and domestic market is totally split, even though, specification is the same, but we will classify materials into A, B, C

 

For those good ones, we will use for oversea market and QC testing is much more strict. 

"