OliverH Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Just got this Information: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffashion.chinadaily.com.cn%2F2016-08%2F17%2Fcontent_26508263.htm https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zhichanli.com%2Farticle%2F37534&edit-text= Let's wait for more Information and what patents and products are the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC-Lover Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Wrong link? Leads to the Google translation site... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 53 minutes ago, EUC-Lover said: Wrong link? Leads to the Google translation site... The link is embedded and should load after several long seconds after translation is done. Chinese sites are sometimes very slow. Original link: http://fashion.chinadaily.com.cn/2016-08/17/content_26508263.htm http://www.zhichanli.com/article/37534 But don't come back you can't read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC-Lover Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I'll try on my pc later today, on my mobile it doesn't work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Here's the Google Translate to english on that page: Segway Segway balanced car to get a patent infringement injunction in Germany 2016-08-17 14:37:27 August 9, German time 15:00 (GMT 21:00), Hamburg District Court issued a Segway (Segway) previously submitted to the German City Consulting on the import of several Chinese companies suspected of being balanced Cart Segway product patent infringement injunction. And requested City Consulting Company immediately following: agree to destroy the German customs seized infringing Segway product patents balanced car products; prohibiting further imports, publicity, advertising, and product sells infringing Segway design; notification Segway its fraud production manufacturers, suppliers and all fake commercial vendors, and the number of orders and inform their exports; bear the cost of the process. It is reported that, Segway German customs seized its sales channels in Germany for City Consulting company operating for several Chinese brands of two balanced car products in. The seized products are two balanced car, suspected of infringing two balanced car originator Segway's patented products. As we all know, Segway as early as the beginning of the 2000s introduced the car balance related products on behalf of a pioneer in the field, and the product's core technology in the world to do a patent portfolio, thus forming a US-centric, world-wide global intellectual property barriers. These patents cover the technology to balance all aspects of product design, the creation has been 16 years of history make the Segway founder and his team has accumulated a lot of the underlying core patents, therefore, in the field of car balance, regardless of the number of patents and patent quality, Segway have a pivotal position in the industry, in addition to binding Ninebot fashion design and technical improvements, both patents have a strong advantage. And from the time the patent term, Segway related patents from the last century to the present day has continued layout, and the layout of the earlier patent has a larger scope of protection, a more robust patent portfolio. Because it is the first launch vehicle balance products manufacturers, Segway over a period of time has become synonymous with the balance of the car industry. Since March 2016 the US International Trade Commission issued 337 findings for Segway initiated 935 cases and against the disputed patent issued a general exclusion order, in addition to the acquisition of Segway of Chinese manufacturers Ninebot (Na Enbo company), but not for all license balanced car manufacturers involved in the disputed patent is valid for products can not enter the US market, which means that most manufacturers lose balance in a particular two-wheeled vehicle of the US market. Last September Segway in Delaware District Court Inventist companies (British Fandi, that is, we may have heard of solowheel manufacturer) launched a lawsuit in July this year in the United States District Court for Delaware new the alleged infringement of Dean Kamen (Segway inventor balanced car) car balance held by the underlying patent of seven balanced car manufacturers to initiate a lawsuit. Besides the US, Europe and other Segway also carried out special customs clearance of goods from China has three balanced car manufacturers for alleged patent infringement Segway two balance of the car was seized and destroyed in the European customs. Now, Segway of IPR customs filing and litigation behavior has extended to the entire European Union. So by the visible, Segway and Ninebot layout global patent protection seems even more intense pace. Like the Segway and Ninebot this balance why car manufacturers raised the banner of intellectual property protection, the reason or cottage, highlighting the problem of plagiarism, causing chaos balanced car market, a large number of fake and shoddy products, and these huge security risks to full-blown product last year, exports from China to overseas market shilly-car bombings occur frequently, the consumer personal and property has brought great harm. These manufacturers produce inferior balanced car with bad batteries and chargers at low prices in overseas markets and export sales in many countries because the balance of the car incident sparked concerns about the quality and safety of the entire industry has brought great impact, while the Segway and Ninebot accumulated precipitation in the years of research and intellectual property rights held by the related art is also an injury. Car market now balanced patent war, not only for the balance of the cottage car manufacturers give legal heavy strikes, it helps to clear the environment and regulate the industry, but also for consumers around the world responsible for the performance. We once again appeal to the balance of the car manufacturers should strengthen awareness of intellectual property, we will focus on patented technology and product development up to innovative thinking to create more rich and interesting product, the only way to form a healthy business environment and create more security reliable products, and jointly promote the popularity of the car balanced product, so that more people recognize and enjoy the balance of the car to bring quality experience and endless fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardmech Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I thought this would happen, there's a one wheel balance vehicle in the segway patent, if the USPTO actually checked patents I don't see how all the recent balancing vehicle patents would be approved. Even the segway one is pretty ridiculous, there's no explanation for how to implement it, which defeats the point of patents in the first place. They were designed to give people a temporary monopoly on inventions on the condition they disclosed how they function. The segway ones expire in 2017 or sometime fairly soon however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 15 minutes ago, EUC-Lover said: I'll try on my pc later today, on my mobile it doesn't work... It takes very long to load. The shorter text from the second link is translated by googel in this matter: Panorama FINANCE August 17 news, foreign media reported that the Hamburg district court released patent infringement injunction relates to balance car products, requiring Germany City Consulting Company agrees to destroy the German customs seized infringing Segway product patents balanced car products; ban continue to import, promotion, advertising, and product sells infringing Segway design; its notification Segway fraud manufacturers, suppliers and manufacturers of all commercial counterfeiting, and to inform the number and order quantity exported; bear the cost of the process. It is reported that, City Consulting companies design patent infringement Segway two balance Chinese brand car dealer in Germany. Currently, Segway has carried out more customs registration in Europe, there are three from China's balance of goods vehicle manufacturers for alleged patent infringement Segway two balance of the car was seized and destroyed in the European customs. -- I've a problem with the sentence design patent. In Germany the most equivalent should be the word Gebrauchsmusterschutz. I thought design patents are different from the german/ european patent laws and you can't do anything with them over here. But again we need more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 13 minutes ago, lizardmech said: I thought this would happen, there's a one wheel balance vehicle in the segway patent, if the USPTO actually checked patents I don't see how all the recent balancing vehicle patents would be approved. Even the segway one is pretty ridiculous, there's no explanation for how to implement it, which defeats the point of patents in the first place. They were designed to give people a temporary monopoly on inventions on the condition they disclosed how they function. The segway ones expire in 2017 or sometime fairly soon however. Can it be extended? Do you have the patent numbers or link to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Ok,.so someone please explain why other EUC companies that use the same Segway/Ninebot patented balancing technology developed in 2000 are not affected? This would be terrible for EUC manufacturers if any of these these patent infringements hold and then could seep over into the KS, Inmotion and Gotway territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Ok,.so someone please explain why other EUC companies that use the same Segway/Ninebot patented balancing technology developed in 2000 are not affected? This would be terrible for EUC manufacturers if any of these these patent infringements hold and then could seep over into the KS, Inmotion and Gotway territory. It's not very clear right now. The case isn't published yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardmech Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 33 minutes ago, OliverH said: Can it be extended? Do you have the patent numbers or link to them? https://www.google.com/patents/US6302230 They're all pretty dubious, there's one wheeled motorcycles from the 1960s, flying self balance vehicles from the cold war and variations everywhere. The two wheeled segway version is perhaps a little more novel as it's not just a robot version of a person on a unicycle, though there was some similar devices in the 70s or 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Just looking at the non-patent citations, even computer controlled self-balancing devices (/unicycles) aren't that new an invention: NON-PATENT CITATIONS Reference 1 Kawaji, S., Stabilization of Unicycle Using Spinning Motion, Denki Gakkai Ronbushi, D, vol. 107, Issue 1, Japan (1987), pp. 21-28. 3 Koyanagi et al., A Wheeled Inverse Pendulum Type Self-Contained Mobile Robot and its Posture Control and Vehicle Control, The Society of Instrument and Control Engineers, Special issue of the 31st SICE Annual Conference, Japan 1992, pp. 13-16. 4 Koyanagi et al., A Wheeled Inverse Pendulum Type Self-Contained Mobile Robot and its Two Dimensional Tragectory Control, Proceeding of the Secon International Symposium on Measurement and Control in Robotics, Japan 1992, pp. 891-898. 10 Schoonwinkel, A., Design and Test of a Computer-Stabilized Unicycle, Stanford University (1988), UMI Dissertation Services. 13 Teruaki Self Supported Carrier Machine and Automatic Carrier Device Using the Same in Patent Abstracts of Japan, Dec. 21, 1989, #63149523, Japanese Patent Office, Japan. 14 Vos et al., Dynamics and Nonlinear Adaptive Control of an Autonomous Unicycle-Theory and Experiment, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, A90-26772 10-39, Washington, D.C. 1990, pp. 487-494 (Abstract only). 15 Vos, D., Dynamics and Nonlinear Adaptive Control of an Autonomous Unicycle, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1989. 16 Vos, D., Nonlinear Control of an Autonomous Unicycle Robot: Practical Isues, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1992. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardmech Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 My favourite part is how almost all the self balance vehicle patents cite the segway one and then claim the exact same thing with minor variations, then segway/9bot cite the new patents with new and more absurd patents grafting mundane items onto balancing vehicles and filing new patents and it continues endlessly. It's just going to be like the aircraft patent, fighting over aircraft patents got so out of hand in the USA that no one could make planes, the US industry collapsed and the US airforce was unable to get planes for ww1 as all the US manufacturers were busy with lawsuits or bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, lizardmech said: My favourite part is how almost all the self balance vehicle patents cite the segway one and then claim the exact same thing with minor variations, then segway/9bot cite the new patents with new and more absurd patents grafting mundane items onto balancing vehicles and filing new patents and it continues endlessly. It's just going to be like the aircraft patent, fighting over aircraft patents got so out of hand in the USA that no one could make planes, the US industry collapsed and the US airforce was unable to get planes for ww1 as all the US manufacturers were busy with lawsuits or bankrupt. I get the idea of "protecting your intellectual property" and whatnot with patents, but the whole system is just so abused... It's hard to enter a market if you can get sued by the big boys for something like rounded corners in your product and don't have a bottomless wallet for going over a decade of lawsuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 The pre-existing devices that @esaj discovered above are very interesting. I learned to windsurf in the London docks in the 1980's with a terrific guy, Peter Chilvers. One of the things throttling the development of windsurfing was the patents held by Windsurfing International. However, Peter had added a sail to a large surfboard (a.k.a. a "Sailboard") way back in 1958 complete with a pivoting mast foot to steer the board. He had good documentary and photographic evidence of this. Proving that the device predated (by at least 10 years in this case) the Windsurfing International patent resulted in the patent being declared invalid in the UK and, I think, this then extended to the whole of Europe. This is one of the reasons that it tended to be "Sailboarding" in the UK and "Windsurfing" in America! If anyone is interested, more on this here:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Chilvers. Interestingly this has imbedded itself into patent law as "The windsurfer test". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 6 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Ok,.so someone please explain why other EUC companies that use the same Segway/Ninebot patented balancing technology developed in 2000 are not affected? This would be terrible for EUC manufacturers if any of these these patent infringements hold and then could seep over into the KS, Inmotion and Gotway territory. Wild guess would be they're trying to hit the largest / most established manufacturers and distributors first and then use this as precedents to weed out the rest ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Keith said: The pre-existing devices that @esaj discovered above are very interesting. I learned to windsurf in the London docks in the 1980's with a terrific guy, Peter Chilvers. One of the things throttling the development of windsurfing was the patents held by Windsurfing International. However, Peter had added a sail to a large surfboard (a.k.a. a "Sailboard") way back in 1958 complete with a pivoting mast foot to steer the board. He had good documentary and photographic evidence of this. Proving that the device predated (by at least 10 years in this case) the Windsurfing International patent resulted in the patent being declared invalid in the UK and, I think, this then extended to the whole of Europe. This is one of the reasons that it tended to be "Sailboarding" in the UK and "Windsurfing" in America! If anyone is interested, more on this here:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Chilvers. Interestingly this has imbedded itself into patent law as "The windsurfer test". You haven't started with a Windglider? Shame on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 @HEC That would be catastrophic for the industry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 51 minutes ago, HEC said: Wild guess would be they're trying to hit the largest / most established manufacturers and distributors first and then use this as precedents to weed out the rest ... Never heard of City Consulting befor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 13 minutes ago, OliverH said: You haven't started with a Windglider? Shame on you I never sailed anything that big, I had an F2 Comet, Bic Hard Rock and a Mistral Speed Needle an out an out drag racing board that would do 35+ knots in a straight line and turned like a supertanker! I haven't sailed since I got married. Come to think of it I haven't skiied since I got married and I haven't flown since I got married either - there's a pattern emerging here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 19 minutes ago, Keith said: I never sailed anything that big, I had an F2 Comet, Bic Hard Rock and a Mistral Speed Needle an out an out drag racing board that would do 35+ knots in a straight line and turned like a supertanker! I haven't sailed since I got married. Come to think of it I haven't skiied since I got married and I haven't flown since I got married either - there's a pattern emerging here! My last one was a Mistral Screamer. You joined this great hobby late. You're not an early 70s guy? Sorry to be OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 40 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: @HEC That would be catastrophic for the industry! Not necessarily - most of the patent wars ends in some kind of deal or patent exchange, "worst case" scenario the small manufacturers will either purchase needed license or leave market for something more profitable / less "conflicting". While that might indeed put some manufacturers out of the EUC game the serious players should be able to withstand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 I had some look on the categories/ types of patents in the US: https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/ido/oeip/taf/patdesc.htm As all over the world if you get something protected with a patent it needs to be new. And you find several patents which are older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardmech Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 18 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Ok,.so someone please explain why other EUC companies that use the same Segway/Ninebot patented balancing technology developed in 2000 are not affected? This would be terrible for EUC manufacturers if any of these these patent infringements hold and then could seep over into the KS, Inmotion and Gotway territory. Didn't solowheel start this entire thing? From what I recall ninebot/segway didn't care too much as long as everyone played nice. Solowheel decided they owned the entire concept of an EUC, ninebot offered to buy or license it from them but they refused. Then solowheel ran to authorities and started getting ninebot shipments seized which was absolutely insane, there's no way to undo that and they will never negotiate after you do that. Now to prevent future patent claims ninebot is using all their segway patents to obliterate solowheel. I don't see any way solowheel can survive, it's difficult to know how ninebot will react to other EUC brands, they might target ones that licensed solowheel patents to deprive solowheel of revenue. Maybe more went on before it became public but my impression was solowheel going after ninebot was sucide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Especially when reading this article, which doesn't seem to have been disputed or retracted since its 2013 publication:http://www.oregonlive.com/small-business/index.ssf/2013/05/with_solowheel_shane_chens_inv.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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