NOSFET APEX-01

[onewheelkoregro]

13 minutes ago, Poker said:

You are not mistaken, however regarding the X-way seat without having tried it I can just by looking at it assume that the seat is placed too far back from the center of gravity. From my (somewhat limited) experience with seated riding you want a seat that extends to a bit past the center point of the EUC.

Theres a few different ways to combine a trolly handle and a seat.  Both my V11 (aftermarket seat) and my Sherman S (3D printed seat with velcro) have the seats attached to the trolly handle and its working perfectly fine, I can get my motorcycle helmet over the seat and trolly handle at the same time and its a practical way to go to the store.

I just have a modular helmet that I lift up to show my face when I walk into a store so people don't freak out that I'm going to rob the store with my futuristic vehicle.

[PourUC]

1 hour ago, Ronin said:

It's a very outdated mindset to think its ok to buy stuff that should already be included by default. We aren't in 2020 anymore. I will always advocate for minimum spending upon purchase, considering the high prices of these devices. I learned to design and 3d print most of my own stuff mostly and always pushed people to do so, im against the exorbitant prices of after market protective shells grizzla style, that are worthless upon resale. If people have the bad practice to waste money, im not going to say its ok and be ok with it because the community does it. Im going to try to educate riders in spending smarter in their wheels. But actually riders are already smart and care because i see it through various trends like 3d printing for example. I will always prioritize the wheel that offers me the most. Because the cheaper wheels are the better, and this hobby would continue to grow being more accessible. In basic maths, if you spend extra 300$ on a new wheel, now it costs you 3800$,vs a wheel that will have seat and trolley ready (x-way for example at 3600$ with a higher voltage) Hope this clarifies. So in a nutshell, sorry but it does make sense to be disappointed to not have basic stuff like a trolley handle.The last 20"wheel with no trolley was the Extreme bull xman. 

I am not advocating for every wheel to exclude a handle though.

I am arguing that the lack of a handle on the Apex specifically is an understandable decision. It isn't trying to be a commuter wheel. It isn't trying to be a go to the shops and get your groceries wheel. It is trying to be an uber off-road wheel and should be judged against that standard. In which, a trolley handle is not a must have feature.

Additionally, regardless of what you think counts as smart spending. No one buying this wheel OVER the Lynx which has exactly the same power train is doing so because they are trying to optimise their wheels utility. I am saying though that if someone wants this wheel because of it's off-road prowess and they still want a handle then they will have to settle for the after market.

Even further, regardless of if people should 3D print their own accessories, Nosfet has openly said that they are encouraging after-market support of their wheel. There is an industry for producing after market parts and people will purchase from various vendors. From faster chargers and bumper kits to pads and suspension components. 

The Xmax lacking a handle is for the same fundamental reason as this wheel. But the failing of the Xmax was because despite people saying that the RS was a goated wheel and hyping up the RS power train, the voltage revolution left it in the dust and people realised faster than begode/extremebull that suspension is a killer feature for off-road and making a dedicated off-road wheel that lacked suspension was the downfall of that particular EUC, even ignoring that this generation of wheel (xman) suffered from overheating which was a problem eliminated by suspension wheels.

You may prioritise a wheel that offers you the most. But someone doing jumps is already going "well I don't want a Commander Pro GT". Someone who wants a light commuter wheel is going "I don't want a Sherman L". Not everyone is trying to get all the features in one wheel. Some people want a wheel that does what they want.

With off-road being the focus a lack of a handle simply isn't 'failure' from any position other than reducing the wheels mass market appeal. Which may not be great for Nosfets total sales, but for the regular user if this is what they want they already have a perfectly fine alternative. The Lynx. So you can suggest to all the 'smart' riders to get a Lynx instead. Leave us idiot riders to instead go 'oh it hasn't got a stock trolley handle, oh well it does have 150mm suspension travel and the ability to customise the shock, I guess when going to the shop I will ride my other wheel instead.

Which is another point. The kind of people who throw their money at these kind of wheels HAVE money. 

In basic terms. Not every wheel has to appeal to everyone. Not every wheel has to be some swiss army knife that offers maximum utility for everyone. The design of the wheel would easily allow Grizzla or whoever to design their own trolley handle as part of a front or rear bumper if they so wish.  And people may buy it, even if that makes them an idiot. 

To be crystal clear. Would it be nice if it had a trolley without affecting everything else? Sure, absolutely. But it doesn't. That is the matter of things and no whinging or whining is going to change that.

[Ronin]

38 minutes ago, Poker said:

You are not mistaken, however regarding the X-way seat without having tried it I can just by looking at it assume that the seat is placed too far back from the center of gravity. From my (somewhat limited) experience with seated riding you want a seat that extends to a bit past the center point of the EUC.

Theres a few different ways to combine a trolly handle and a seat.  Both my V11 (aftermarket seat) and my Sherman S (3D printed seat with velcro) have the seats attached to the trolly handle and its working perfectly fine, I can get my motorcycle helmet over the seat and trolly handle at the same time and its a practical way to go to the store.

Both apex additional seat and X-Way's sit in the back. There will probably be people designing 3d printable seats for it 🙂

Edited Wednesday at 06:37 PM by Ronin

[Rafal]

23 hours ago, PourUC said:

It would vary, but I don't think its dramatic as the video we see is with the 205mm DNM TRU8RC and it seems like the wheel can be pulled out to full extension.

If it is set up for the 220mm shock than installing 205mm you should loose (220-205)x linkage ratio. Where ratio is 150mm suspension travel divided by shock travel 65mm. 

So (220-205)x(150/65)= 15x2.3= 34.6mm lost in suspension travel.

If I am right then installing 205 mm shock you will have only 150-34.6=115.4mm suspension travel.

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 06:47 PM by Rafal

[Unventor]

42 minutes ago, onewheelkoregro said:

I just have a modular helmet that I lift up to show my face when I walk into a store so people don't freak out that I'm going to rob the store with my futuristic vehicle.

Well that might not work for everyone one. Question is what is more scary..face or helmet...and with Halloween coming up 🎃 (joke aside..)

[Skampster]

1 hour ago, PourUC said:

I am not advocating for every wheel to exclude a handle though.

I am arguing that the lack of a handle on the Apex specifically is an understandable decision. It isn't trying to be a commuter wheel. It isn't trying to be a go to the shops and get your groceries wheel. It is trying to be an uber off-road wheel and should be judged against that standard. In which, a trolley handle is not a must have feature.

Additionally, regardless of what you think counts as smart spending. No one buying this wheel OVER the Lynx which has exactly the same power train is doing so because they are trying to optimise their wheels utility. I am saying though that if someone wants this wheel because of it's off-road prowess and they still want a handle then they will have to settle for the after market.

Even further, regardless of if people should 3D print their own accessories, Nosfet has openly said that they are encouraging after-market support of their wheel. There is an industry for producing after market parts and people will purchase from various vendors. From faster chargers and bumper kits to pads and suspension components. 

Sorry guys, but in the world of common sense and rational thinking, subject matter and subjective thinking put aside, his argument is on point with objective thinking. 

[WheelGoodTime]

thankfully, Beidou has already created a seat/trolley handle akin to the X-Way's. It look very nice, too! Unfortunately, it appears that it is made out of the same material that the Sherman L and Lynx seats are made out of, which is very slippery. This can be fixed with a few different methods. I firmly believe that this seat/trolley handle and a set of fairing plates should come standard inside the box with every Apex purchase. No EUC should come as bare bones as this, because it requires a $100 USD minimum investment in pads just to make it usable. Add an additional $100+ for a set of side fairing plates to comfortably mount your pads, and then add an additional $100+ for a seat/trolley handle. Now you are paying roughly the same as a Lynx, depending on where you are purchasing from. I suppose this is likely why it is priced the way it is, $3500 USD at eWheels - $500 cheaper than the Lynx (And they are throwing in free pads). I suppose at the end of the day you will pay less for the Apex than the Lynx after buying your "post purchase requirements", but it just seems like such a basic requirement to have those things already in the box. I fear the day that EUCs take a turn in the direction that phones have gone, with not even including a charger with your phone. EUC buyers should have a complete package, ready to go without requiring them to buy a bunch of "extras". It would be reasonable for Nosfet to offer all those things in the package at a somewhat higher entry price. But again, at least after all is said and done, it's still less of an investment than the Lynx, so there's that...

[Skampster]

As much as I love Grizzla’s, they are way overpriced. My only gripe, sure I can buy a 3D printer, but the price set aside, Grizzla make a good product, probably the best 3rd party company imo. 

[PourUC]

1 hour ago, Rafal said:

If it is set up for the 220mm shock than installing 205mm you should loose (220-205)x linkage ratio. Where ratio is 150mm suspension travel divided by shock travel 65mm. 

So (220-205)x(150/65)= 15x2.3= 34.6mm lost in suspension travel.

If I am right then installing 205 mm shock you will have only 150-34.6=115.4mm suspension travel.

 

 

 

I believe it is the other way around because the video shot on suspension travel shows jack moving the mechanism through the entire range and he is using the air shock which is advertised to be the 62mm stroke 205mm eye to eye one.

[ffq]

On 10/2/2024 at 2:53 PM, NOSFET Electric Dreams said:

Off an initial look at the product it may seem like the mudguard has imperfections however there's many thing we considered during this design:

1. Avoid mud getting stuck and breaking the mudguard - on some products (i wont name them) when mud got stuck it would push against the mudguard and break off. 
2. Tail Autotomy - this means that when coming in impact instead of it breaking an elongated piece it would reduce the damage and can be clipped back on.
3. Short - we wanted to keep the design short and minimal to reduce the mudguard hitting the tire when going through uneven terrain

4. Weight - reduce the weight and keep the overall EUC light

Lastly, we will be the first company who will openly share parts of the EUC 3D design to allow die hard users (like yourselves) to design a mudguard and front bumper. Perhaps integrating a Gopro mount into bumper and rear mudguard, or having a place to slot your powerbanks etc. Time to get brainstorming what you may want from your APEX! 

 

Suggestions for Lighting Design:

1. Daytime Running Lights: So far, no EUC (electric unicycle) manufacturers seem to pay attention to the issue of daytime running lights. This results in many riders not turning on their lights during the day or at dusk, making it difficult for pedestrians to notice them when they suddenly appear on the street at high speeds. The Apex model seems to have daytime running lights, which is a great start.

2. Tail Light Design: Almost all manufacturers are inconsistent with tail light design. Regardless of the country or vehicle type, the basic logic of road traffic is that the red tail light stays on constantly, and when braking or decelerating, the red tail light brightens. Why is this logic not applied to electric unicycles? Instead, we see erratic flashing tail lights while riding or blinking turn signals, or no tail light illumination at all while riding.

   I suggest that Apex implements a tail light logic that follows the standard approach. Or at least provide a set of options that allow users to choose a standard tail light mode.

[NOSFET Electric Dreams]

On 10/14/2024 at 4:39 PM, dimos15 said:

Lovely wheel @NOSFET Electric Dreams , do you know if it is going to be an Ewheels exclusive or something similar?

Are we going to see it in Europe from oneride or myewheels?

in talks with myewheel, Ewheels is not currently exclusive in the US. 

[NOSFET Electric Dreams]

18 hours ago, techyiam said:

Perhaps Jack can provide the reason as to why they decided not to include a trolley handle on the Apex. There has to be a reason.

I think the feedback would be more accurate and legitimate if Apex owners can get a chance to ride their Apex first, and than voice their complaints. 

It seems like this is a heated discussion point, when designing a product we have to find a balance between multiple points. 

We Felt that by including a trolley handle we would:
-Increase weight for an off-road wheel and race wheel, especially since weight has been a hot topic
-Break during a wheel tumble (which happens often when off roading)
-in the rare cases you needed it you could put your palm on it (at least for my height)

The good news is that our wheel is priced a aggressively to help gather support around our brand at the same time; 

-Allow riders to use the extra savings for pads, handles pedals etc

-Trolley Handle & Seat and Pedals are being designed by as far as I know multiple reputable third parties, I've seen concepts.

This will allow riders to put in only the necessary components they feel for their use case.
 

I am only (what it seems like at least) the only face of the company. Though I help lead it and is one of the key roles every decision is to be made by the team with the customers best interest in mind. Creating a perfect product does not exist, and I don't think the APEX is perfect, its after all not possible. But what I will strive for as a rider myself is to ensure anyone who gets an APEX or any future NOSFET products get great customer service and A+ aftersales support and also use the same great QC standards set out in the industry.

PS: As I get busier I may not be on the forum as much but I'll drop by and reply what I can. 

Edited 23 hours ago by NOSFET Electric Dreams

[NOSFET Electric Dreams]

41 minutes ago, ffq said:

Suggestions for Lighting Design:

1. Daytime Running Lights: So far, no EUC (electric unicycle) manufacturers seem to pay attention to the issue of daytime running lights. This results in many riders not turning on their lights during the day or at dusk, making it difficult for pedestrians to notice them when they suddenly appear on the street at high speeds. The Apex model seems to have daytime running lights, which is a great start.

2. Tail Light Design: Almost all manufacturers are inconsistent with tail light design. Regardless of the country or vehicle type, the basic logic of road traffic is that the red tail light stays on constantly, and when braking or decelerating, the red tail light brightens. Why is this logic not applied to electric unicycles? Instead, we see erratic flashing tail lights while riding or blinking turn signals, or no tail light illumination at all while riding.

   I suggest that Apex implements a tail light logic that follows the standard approach. Or at least provide a set of options that allow users to choose a standard tail light mode.

Our tail light does not have erratic flashing, we removed the left and right turn signal which we felt was pretty useless, instead our tai light can stay on by pushing the power button when the wheel is on, the bright glow also suggest slow braking and flashing red means fast braking.

[UniVehje]

34 minutes ago, NOSFET Electric Dreams said:

Allow riders to use the extra savings for pads, handles pedals etc

-Trolley Handle & Seat and Pedals are being designed by as far as I know multiple reputable third parties, I've seen concepts.

This will allow riders to put in only the necessary components they feel for their use case.

Have you considered selling the wheel as a kit without pedals, pads, tire etc? Seems like the customer type interested in this wheel usually change to their own parts anyway. More savings to buy parts as the stock parts are not shipped out unnecessarily. 
 

Also, now that there’s a new company, do you have any plans to try to get future wheels able to be registered officially in European markets? 

[Paul g]

2 hours ago, NOSFET Electric Dreams said:

Our tail light does not have erratic flashing, we removed the left and right turn signal which we felt was pretty useless, instead our tai light can stay on by pushing the power button when the wheel is on, the bright glow also suggest slow braking and flashing red means fast braking.

      While removing the confusing automated left-right turn signals is a good move and it is highly appreciated, bright glow and flashing red signals are not following the cods and mandatory signals designed for public road vehicles and they are just as confusing as the turn signals.

    Even my cheap, rechargeable, bicycle lights know to turn themselves highly bright when I brake (they’re not doing a great job as they turn on late, or when I hit potholes because they’re based on cheap sensors). It is pretty shameful that we are in 2024 (and have wheels that go over 100km/h) but not even one of them is capable to properly signal braking. And it would be cheap to implement them, just adding some LEDs for braking. A lot of wheels have so many light strips, RGBs and so on. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against them. But when I see the manufacturers putting this amount of energy and work in these lights and not giving a f*** about our safety, THAT makes me a bit mad.

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, Paul g said:

But when I see the manufacturers putting this amount of energy and work in these lights and not giving a f*** about our safety, THAT makes me a bit mad.

I agree. Furthermore, these would be classified as motorcycles if registered. They should follow the same regulations as much as possible. Turn signals should be at least possible to add later and brake lights should follow the code. Maybe not that important on a wheel made to race. But at some point there will be need to register our wheels for road use. 

[Maverick]

3 hours ago, NOSFET Electric Dreams said:

It seems like this is a heated discussion point, when designing a product we have to find a balance between multiple points. 

We Felt that by including a trolley handle we would:
-Increase weight for an off-road wheel and race wheel, especially since weight has been a hot topic
-Break during a wheel tumble (which happens often when off roading)
-in the rare cases you needed it you could put your palm on it (at least for my height)

The good news is that our wheel is priced a aggressively to help gather support around our brand at the same time; 

-Allow riders to use the extra savings for pads, handles pedals etc

-Trolley Handle & Seat and Pedals are being designed by as far as I know multiple reputable third parties, I've seen concepts.

This will allow riders to put in only the necessary components they feel for their use case.
 

I am only (what it seems like at least) the only face of the company. Though I help lead it and is one of the key roles every decision is to be made by the team with the customers best interest in mind. Creating a perfect product does not exist, and I don't think the APEX is perfect, its after all not possible. But what I will strive for as a rider myself is to ensure anyone who gets an APEX or any future NOSFET products get great customer service and A+ aftersales support and also use the same great QC standards set out in the industry.

PS: As I get busier I may not be on the forum as much but I'll drop by and reply what I can. 

Hi Jack.  Starting a new company comes with a lot of pressure and risk and I can't imagine the stressors you're feeling.  I want to say thank you, press on and persevere.

I like to feel a connection or the illusion of connection and you've given me more connections to a company than all other EUC companies combined, i.e.  it's clear your reading these and responding, which can be risky (you are a profile in courage).

While not rich, I'm fortunate to afford these little treasures we call EUCs.  Aftermarket 3rd parties often respond too slow (I'm still waiting on protective V14 body armor from Grizzla or Clark).  Every day my V14 gets a little more beat-up.  

I'd, like NOSFET to be different and break the mold of detached and disjointed relationship with its soon-to-be loyal customer base.  You're off to a good start by engaging (again thank you).

I want to protect my soon-to-be APEX-01 investment out-of-the-box.  I'll be very disappointed if protective armor of Grizzla/Clark quality is not available by the time the APEX-01 (batch 1), arrives at my home.  TO THAT END, I'd really like a trolly option and the seat-trolly combo that's used on the X-way seems a reasonable solution, even if not ideal. 

FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH: I don't want you to give away company secrets to your competitors, but I'd like to see the entire NOSFET team on camera. I want to indirectly bond with all of you.  I want to see some of the company.  Perhaps a well advertised live-stream and tour of the grounds.

Transparency and periodic engagement fosters trust.  Give me something to root for and the illusion of connection and NOSFET will earn and have my loyalty.  Please don't let NOSFET be aloof, detached, disjointed, distant, and unreachable like the other EUC companies.  Keep and maintain a personal connection. ~maverick 

[PourUC]

2 hours ago, Paul g said:

      While removing the confusing automated left-right turn signals is a good move and it is highly appreciated, bright glow and flashing red signals are not following the cods and mandatory signals designed for public road vehicles and they are just as confusing as the turn signals.

    Even my cheap, rechargeable, bicycle lights know to turn themselves highly bright when I brake (they’re not doing a great job as they turn on late, or when I hit potholes because they’re based on cheap sensors). It is pretty shameful that we are in 2024 (and have wheels that go over 100km/h) but not even one of them is capable to properly signal braking. And it would be cheap to implement them, just adding some LEDs for braking. A lot of wheels have so many light strips, RGBs and so on. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against them. But when I see the manufacturers putting this amount of energy and work in these lights and not giving a f*** about our safety, THAT makes me a bit mad.

This is you being so far down one mindset you are COMPLETELY ignoring another.

 

Performance motorbikes for a few years have had this exact setup. Normal braking is a brighter light as per normal. But hard braking is a flashing light.

Many performance cars do this as well. It may not be to your fancy, but it is very very common. Nosfet are in fact following an industry standard here and it's safer because a flashing light is more visible, and even bicycle lights have rear and front flashing modes because of this.

 

 

[PourUC]

1 hour ago, Maverick said:

Hi Jack.  Starting a new company comes with a lot of pressure and risk and I can't imagine the stressors you're feeling.  I want to say thank you, press on and persevere.

I like to feel a connection or the illusion of connection and you've given me more connections to a company than all other EUC companies combined, i.e.  it's clear your reading these and responding, which can be risky (you are a profile in courage).

While not rich, I'm fortunate to afford these little treasures we call EUCs.  Aftermarket 3rd parties often respond too slow (I'm still waiting on protective V14 body armor from Grizzla or Clark).  Every day my V14 gets a little more beat-up.  

I'd, like NOSFET to be different and break the mold of detached and disjointed relationship with its soon-to-be loyal customer base.  You're off to a good start by engaging (again thank you).

I want to protect my soon-to-be APEX-01 investment out-of-the-box.  I'll be very disappointed if protective armor of Grizzla/Clark quality is not available by the time the APEX-01 (batch 1), arrives at my home.  TO THAT END, I'd really like a trolly option and the seat-trolly combo that's used on the X-way seems a reasonable solution, even if not ideal. 

FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH: I don't want you to give away company secrets to your competitors, but I'd like to see the entire NOSFET team on camera. I want to indirectly bond with all of you.  I want to see some of the company.  Perhaps a well advertised live-stream and tour of the grounds.

Transparency and periodic engagement fosters trust.  Give me something to root for and the illusion of connection and NOSFET will earn and have my loyalty.  Please don't let NOSFET be aloof, detached, disjointed, distant, and unreachable like the other EUC companies.  Keep and maintain a personal connection. ~maverick 

Beidou dude is already working on some. He so far has an early seat handle design and his side panels include front and rear bumpers.

[Bizra6ot]

Flashing or not, when you brake hard your balls glow but no one sees the light from behind anyway so..

[Asphalt]

6 hours ago, NOSFET Electric Dreams said:

We Felt that by including a trolley handle we would:
-Increase weight for an off-road wheel and race wheel, especially since weight has been a hot topic
-Break during a wheel tumble (which happens often when off roading)
-in the rare cases you needed it you could put your palm on it (at least for my height)

This will allow riders to put in only the necessary components they feel for their use case.

Why was a kickstand included?
- increased weight
- snag point when trail riding steep drops/stairs
- bend or break during a tumble
- you could lean the wheel against a tree or lay it on the ground

[Rollin-on-1]

16 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

Why was a kickstand included?
- increased weight
- snag point when trail riding steep drops/stairs
- bend or break during a tumble
- you could lean the wheel against a tree or lay it on the ground

Probably because it provides rigidity for the chassis reducing the likelihood of flexing under stress.

[Rollin-on-1]

1 hour ago, Bizra6ot said:

Flashing or not, when you brake hard your balls glow but no one sees the light from behind anyway so..

Brake lights that extend down the back of the battery cases would be an improvement.  Better yet, a BrakeFree light (or whatever it is called) on a helmet will be more effective than any brake lights on the EUC itself.  Most drivers can't comprehend EUCs when they see us riding anyway, so there is only so much that can be done to improve safety until drivers become more familiar with us being on the roads with them.

[Paul g]

2 hours ago, PourUC said:

This is you being so far down one mindset you are COMPLETELY ignoring another.

 

Performance motorbikes for a few years have had this exact setup. Normal braking is a brighter light as per normal. But hard braking is a flashing light.

Many performance cars do this as well. It may not be to your fancy, but it is very very common. Nosfet are in fact following an industry standard here and it's safer because a flashing light is more visible, and even bicycle lights have rear and front flashing modes because of this.

 

 

    There are two types of backlights installed on vehicles: one is the position light and the other is the braking light. The position light is always-on on a moving vehicle, it never turns off or blinks when in use (unless you turn on the hazard lighting when you park on a motorway, for example). In some bikes and cars you are referring to only the dedicated brake light flashes rapidly.  That is an important distinction as the brake lights ADD to the light produced by the position lights. That is it intensifies the light seen by the driver/ rider in the back. When the position lights are turning on and off during night or low visibility the euc with these lights is like disappearing for a brief moment from the view field and that can be very dangerous. Just last days I had to use the road in heavy rain and it was really dangerous as the visibility was very poor and all I could see was the position lights of the car in front. This is not a joke to play with. On top of that these braking flash lights are illegal in the UK and USA, as only the police, the emergency and special transports can use these, but some of the EU countries seem to turn a blind eye on them.

[Asphalt]

4 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Probably because it provides rigidity for the chassis reducing the likelihood of flexing under stress.

If minimalist performance is the design goal (the philosophy behind the lack of trolley handle), then rigidity can be achieved without the complexity and weight of a pivoting kickstand.