Begode Blitz 2400wh: 134V, 20", 79lbs

[Funky]

4 hours ago, Robse said:

hmnn , that ball crunching front handle and seated riding? idk.. ??

Nah, it's a hole for your 3rd arm. 

[Asphalt]

7 hours ago, cegli said:

I'm very interested in this as an off-road wheel...  It's kind of like an Extreme, but with a bigger wheel and it weights 9 pounds less.

It checks most of the off-road boxes.  It has 130mm of travel, a 20" wheel, and it's lighter than all the other equivalent off-road wheels.   It seems like it's designed to be like the ET-Max, but lighter.  In Wrongway's ET-Max video, he said it was actually a surprisingly good off-road wheel except for its tire and its weight.

The tile motor is supposed to have more torque than a typical C32 motor.  I'm curious to see how much extra torque it provides.  If it gives less weight with the same torque, that's definitely a win.

I have my fingers crossed...  It looks like an additional 15 pounds could be dropped off by modifying it to run 2p instead of 4p.  The 50s cells still have plenty of current to make that safe.  That would get the weight down to ~65 pounds while still having a very capable off-road wheel.

Hopefully the suspension, build quality, etc is up to par!

Begode doesn't see the Blitz as an off-road wheel (they added lights and used lighter materials) - it's a speed racing wheel.
They have another model coming intended for off-road.
 

[WheelGoodTime]

I don't think the C32 motor choice was a good one. To race successfully, you want a high torque motor for fast accelerations. A c32 motor will be good for keeping you at a  sustained speed, but not the best for rapid braking and accelerations.

This wheel NEEDS a C38 or C40 motor in my opinion to be a truly great racing wheel. It'll also translate well into an outstanding trail EUC if they use a higher torque motor as well. The rest of this wheel looks excellent - but in my opinion this is an issue that needs to be solved before release. Maybe they ought to offer a high torque version as well? I think that version would sell far better commercially because it would be much more versatile.

Edited July 11 by WheelGoodTime

[techyiam]

22 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

This wheel NEEDS a C38 or C40 motor in my opinion to be a truly great racing wheel. It'll also translate well into an outstanding trail EUC if they use a higher torque motor as well. The rest of this wheel looks excellent - but in my opinion this is an issue that needs to be solved before release. Maybe they ought to offer a high torque version as well? I think that version would sell far better commercially because it would be much more versatile.

Roger posted a video saying that ewheels.com racing team, of which he is a member, has been testing the Blitz. He even talked about attempting to break track records at some of the tracks too in the near future. There are euc racing in the US, Europe and in China as well. I find it hard to believe that Begode is not knowledgeable enough about racing requirements to choose the wrong motor.

I would give Begode more benefit of the doubt, unless proven otherwise.

 

 

[noonewantstobepeterchris]

9 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Roger posted a video saying that ewheels.com racing team, of which he is a member, has been testing the Blitz. He even talked about attempting to break track records at some of the tracks too in the near future. There are euc racing in the US, Europe and in China as well. I find it hard to believe that Begode is not knowledgeable enough about racing requirements to choose the wrong motor.

I would give Begode more benefit of the doubt, unless proven otherwise.

 

 

I agree. Without seeing any curves, just looking at the magnet size would be akin to dismissing a sports car because of the cylinder diameter. Sure, it has an effect if ALL other things are equal. But it’s not. We already know the controller is different. A curve using the controller would give us way more insight.

[Ronin]

That wheel has been put under test for a while by knowledgeable people...Im not worried about its power delivery or performance in the race track.

Hope that @Hsiang can test it and get us another speed record after 70mph with the GT Pro 😉. 

Edited July 11 by Ronin Ryder

[Rawnei]

I'll let racers worry about racing but it does make sense that torque would be more important than top speed on a racetrack, at least with these potential speeds, what speeds are racers reaching on the tracks?

9 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

That wheel has been put under test for a while by knowledgeable people...Im not worried about its power delivery or performance in the race track.

Hope that @Hsiang can test it and get us another speed record after 70mph with the GT Pro 😉. 

I'm sure this time he can get 80mph magic fantasy numbers! 🤞

[The Brahan Seer]

Perhaps the C32 might workout just right... but the second one is my favourite...

 

Edited July 11 by The Brahan Seer

[Paul g]

8 hours ago, Lilvodka said:

Will the GPS and data logging functions allow it to be tracked by authorities?

Yes. Only if you have consumed vodka.

[Paul g]

7 hours ago, techyiam said:

Roger posted a video saying that ewheels.com racing team, of which he is a member, has been testing the Blitz. He even talked about attempting to break track records at some of the tracks too in the near future. There are euc racing in the US, Europe and in China as well. I find it hard to believe that Begode is not knowledgeable enough about racing requirements to choose the wrong motor.

I would give Begode more benefit of the doubt, unless proven otherwise.

 

 

Roger is swapping motors 

[Stevebee]

1 hour ago, Paul g said:

Roger is swapping motors 

Sounding less like a Blitz then!
 

[Eyss]

9 hours ago, Rawnei said:

I'll let racers worry about racing but it does make sense that torque would be more important than top speed on a racetrack

Is torque acceleration though?

Funny saying from motorcycles: Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you move that wall

 A c32 motor with the power output of 50s batteries could possibly have a lot of acceleration 

Edited July 12 by Eyss

[WheelGoodTime]

5 hours ago, Eyss said:

Is torque acceleration though?

Funny saying from motorcycles: Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you move that wall

 A c32 motor with the power output of 50s batteries could possibly have a lot of acceleration 

We have already seen the c38 and c40 acceleration power on a master v4 with 50s batteries - With all other specs the same (with the exception of wheel weight) and it's very good!

 

That said, we can logically conclude that the C32 will have less acceleration power/torque when it's needed most to blast past your opponent, and instead it gains a higher top speed potential which is arguably not going to be used nearly as much except in select parts of the track with the straightaways.

Edited July 12 by WheelGoodTime

[cegli]

16 hours ago, Asphalt said:

Begode doesn't see the Blitz as an off-road wheel (they added lights and used lighter materials) - it's a speed racing wheel.
They have another model coming intended for off-road.

Interesting video, thanks.  I don't understand why they don't think this will be a good off-road wheel.  Lights are fine on an off-road wheel.  Weight savings is good for an off-road wheel, unless that means they're worried it's going to break?  Hopefully it's still robust, but you'd think it would be?

There's a good reason all the cutting edge eMTB brands are trying to get their bikes down from ~53 lbs to ~40lbs in the newest generations.  It's just so much more fun riding something lighter, with all other attributes kept the same.

Seeing the weight come down, while suspension travel goes up is definitely exciting to see.

Edited July 12 by cegli

[fbhb]

36 minutes ago, cegli said:

I don't understand why they don't think this will be a good off-road wheel

He did actually say that they have something New coming specifically for off-road, so maybe a more robust version of the Blitz!!??

No doubt with some of the more fragile aspects of the Extreme being addressed in whatever it is they are cooking up for their next off-road wheel!

[Rawnei]

6 hours ago, Eyss said:

Is torque acceleration though?

Funny saying from motorcycles: Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you move that wall

 A c32 motor with the power output of 50s batteries could possibly have a lot of acceleration 

Leaning is acceleration, torque lets you lean harder without worrying about overpowering the wheel.

[Eyss]

13 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Leaning is acceleration, torque lets you lean harder without worrying about overpowering the wheel.

Then how did kuji out accelerate on a v13 over a master in his videos?

The v13 is known for having no torque. The v13 has a c30 motor in addition to having a 22" wheel. 

(Since it wasn't a GPS test the v13 could be way over reporting. Kuji might of been bribed as well to make it seem like it's faster than it actually is.) 

My experience is high torque motors accelerate easier up hills. High speed motors accelerate just as well but are more likely to dip / cut out going up inclines.

As somebody said before, magnet width is only one aspect of a motor performance. There's also amount and quality of copper. 

 

That being said, kind of losing interest in the wheel now. 

[Rawnei]

Just now, Eyss said:

Then how did kuji out accelerate on a v13 over a master in his videos?

The v13 is known for having no torque. The v13 has a c30 motor in addition to having a 22" wheel. 

(Since it wasn't a GPS test the v13 could be way over reporting. Kuji might of been bribed as well to make it seem like it's faster than it actually is.) 

My experience is high torque motors accelerate easier up hills. High speed motors accelerate just as well but are more likely to dip / cut out going up inclines.

As somebody said before, magnet width is only one aspect of a motor performance. There's also amount and quality of copper. 

 

That being said, kind of losing interest in the wheel now. 

I don't know what video you are talking about but Kuji leans very hard so he accelerates very hard.

I don't know what motor V13 has (Inmotion doesn't have C30 that is a Begode term, you have to find out magnet width and spoolings) but bigger motor diameter is also more difficult to overpower.

This is some pretty basic knowledge, if motor is spooled for speed it will be easier to overpower.

[Eyss]

2 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

don't know what video you are talking about but Kuji leans very hard so he accelerates very hard.

His master review and then his v13 review on YouTube 

 

3 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Inmotion doesn't have C30 that is a Begode term,

It was measured in a video as 30mm magnet width.  I can't remember which now. It was a ex30 review. 

C# is now used by multiple manufacturers, including Inmotion with their c40 label on the v14, Kingsong with their f22 c38 tile motor. 

 

5 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

but bigger motor diameter is also more difficult to overpower.

The motor requires more power to keep upright. You can make it dip in a hard brake. 

[noonewantstobepeterchris]

3 hours ago, WheelGoodTime said:

we can logically conclude

No, we can not. The Blitz's C32 is the new tile type motor. Can you guarantee the same number of teeth? air gap? wire thickness? turn count? termination? magnet grade?

[onkeldanuel]

19 minutes ago, noonewantstobepeterchris said:

No, we can not. The Blitz's C32 is the new tile type motor. Can you guarantee the same number of teeth? air gap? wire thickness? turn count? termination? magnet grade?

They dont use the tile type magnets in the Blitz-motor was said in the presentation.  But they use magnesium motorcovers to make the rotor lighter, which is great of course

[noonewantstobepeterchris]

32 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said:

They dont use the tile type magnets in the Blitz-motor was said in the presentation.  But they use magnesium motorcovers to make the rotor lighter, which is great of course

 that damn picture on page 4 of the ET max motor has me all twisted.

[Ronin]

I personally won't conclude anything about this wheel racing performance wise until we get official feedback from real racers. It would be best to remain neutral and not repeatedly attempt to negatively impact this wheel with feedback based on theories and not on real rides. If this wheel doesn't perform that will be known very fast,but only after riders test it. I remain curious about this wheel and am convinced it will perform. I'm not a racer so I'm mostly interested in its street riding capacities, paired with the practicality of its light weight. I never cared about the use case labels given to wheels for marketing purposes. 

Edited July 12 by Ronin Ryder

[WheelGoodTime]

1 hour ago, Ronin Ryder said:

I personally won't conclude anything about this wheel racing performance wise until we get official feedback from real racers. It would be best to remain neutral and not repeatedly attempt to negatively impact this wheel with feedback based on theories and not on real rides. If this wheel doesn't perform that will be known very fast,but only after riders test it. I remain curious about this wheel and am convinced it will perform. I'm not a racer so I'm mostly interested in its street riding capacities, paired with the practicality of its light weight. I never cared about the use case labels given to wheels for marketing purposes. 

I'm not trying to negatively impact this wheel with theories. I want this wheel to perform exceptionally well commercially, and I don't think it's possible to do so unless they increase the motor magnet size. It's not a theory to claim that it will objectively have less torque than the master - if all other factors are the same, then that's just analysis of the wheel with the information we have. They both are 134.4 volts, both have 2400wh 50S batteries, both have 36 mosfets (v4 master does anyway), and both have 3500w non-tile motors. The biggest difference is in the weight, and any magic that they can do with the firmware. But you know what Begode EUCs have won the most races recently? Masters... with C40 motors. I genuinely hope that Begode will create a high torque version of this wheel, even if it weighs a little more. I believe that would be the wheel that has the most potential to win races, which is what this wheel was designed to do in the first place.

Edited July 12 by WheelGoodTime

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, WheelGoodTime said:

I'm not trying to negatively impact this wheel with theories. I want this wheel to perform exceptionally well commercially, and I don't think it's possible to do so unless they increase the motor magnet size. It's not a theory to claim that it will objectively have less torque than the master - if all other factors are the same, then that's just analysis of the wheel with the information we have. They both are 134.4 volts, both have 2400wh 50S batteries, both have 36 mosfets (v4 master does anyway), and both have 3500w non-tile motors. The biggest difference is in the weight, and any magic that they can do with the firmware. But you know what Begode EUCs have won the most races recently? Masters... with C40 motors. I genuinely hope that Begode will create a high torque version of this wheel, even if it weighs a little more. I believe that would be the wheel that has the most potential to win races, which is what this wheel was designed to do in the first place.

But yours is just an opinion that any John Doe could come to the conclusion to without factual data or racing experience.

How many racing euc's have you built, never mind won races?

If Roger can change motors, you don't think Begode can also do so during prototyping.

Beside their own people, Begode can talk to racers and race teams and let them test them and provide feedback. You think your gut feeling is better than their gather of real racing data.