Rawnei Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 hours ago, winterwheel said: If I start with a warm wheel and only have 2kms to go, there is no wheel in my collection that I wouldn't trust to get me there without issues. My own commute, one way, is about 6km. On super cold days (today being one, -36c) my S-18 and V11 start to behave a little funky (weird tilt things happen) when the wheel gets super cold by the end of the trip. I'm pretty sure this is because I have super cold air streaming over the internals, especially since I have found that taking the minimal step of putting a clear plastic bag over the top of the wheel prevents these issues. And enclosed wheels like the EXN don't seem to have this problem. I generally watch my wheel the first times riding in cold to see how the temperature drops as I travel at different ambient temps. For a given ambient temperature the wheel will either maintain its internal temperature or not. For my old ACM2, I found that at about -17c the wheel temperature would drop over the course of a ride so I had to get to work before it got too low. Above that I was okay to take my time. But for that's for my trips which take 20-25 minutes. As I said, a 2km trip is short enough that I would never worry about any of this. Well I go on 40km cruises in -12c, controller and battery sensors all show 0c. 😅 (Sensors capable to sense down to -20c). But an hour or top two in that cold and I'm ready to come home and have some warm coffee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 47 minutes ago, Cerbera said: Why is that ? I charge mine to full before every single trip, even if I only did 10 miles the time before ! i posted this a couple of places but elon's explanation made sense to me. i'm wasting gasoline charging to 100% being offgrid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 7 minutes ago, novazeus said: i posted this a couple of places but elon's explanation made sense to me. i'm wasting gasoline charging to 100% being offgrid. Dam these "AI" are getting out of hand.. They look completely like humans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cerbera said: Why is that ? I charge mine to full before every single trip, even if I only did 10 miles the time before ! It would be sitting at 95-100% all the time for me.. Which is also kind of bad for battery. So i charge when it drops down to ~50%. Which happens to be every second week end. And like @novazeus said. It's waste of electricity. And pointless - if you don't need whole wheel range/speed. And same time better for wheel. When i finally will get a sub ~1000Wh wheel - then i will charge it every week end. Still waiting for something decent to be made. Edited January 12 by Funky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Funky said: It's waste of electricity not so bad if ur on the grid, but if ur paying $3.50 a gallon for gas, and u have to get a friend to haul in $500 worth at a time, and u have to run the generator to run the charger. not that i have to explain, but this is why i have multiple wheels and multiple generators. my small generators if new, can push two v13 chargers or two s22 chargers. rotating around my charging needs with multiple wheels pays for itself in gas savings, and now that electron elon has taught me, i'll save even more! i'm just a cowboy living offgrid in my cowcamp so i can tend to my animals using batteries and generators and solar. any electrons out here are made by me and my equipment. so i won't be charging my 2200wh powerstation inverter to 100% anymore under generator power. the transformer or charger for it pulls about 500 watts. so i can charge a wheel and my power inverter simultaneously. oh yeah, btw, like everything in life, those output ratings on generators is a big lie. figure half of what they claim. so i'm not colidge edumucated like these chemical engineers on here, i'm just learning because batteries aren't going away. we just have to learn how to use them correctly. i have a stupid saying, "history hasn't been written yet". meaning everything is still evolving. as i edge closer to surviving terminal cancer ten years now after being given only three months to live in 2014. the funny part to me is, the doctors that told me that, aren't even curious on how i'm still alive. they had already signed me up for hospice. so yeah, i have no complaints. Edited January 12 by novazeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robse Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I don't understand all this "nonsense" about charging batteries at all. If a battery is stated to be able to store 1800 WH, and it is sold with this capacity, then surely it is also meant to be used? Or are we in the situation that a car with a petrol tank of 100 liters can only be filled up to 80? Then the very smartest thing would be for the battery packs to be designed from the start so that they could never be charged to more than 80%, and that they were then sold with the capacity they have at this charge. In addition, you would also have to adjust the voltage, as this would not be able to be set to, for example, 100 volts, when the truth is that the battery pack starts down at 96 volts (80%) I simply think it's completely bs. Range is unsustainable when you are not allowed to charge up to full capacity. So is any margin of safety. I don't trust my RS19 when it reaches below 60% (avoid riding to fast, accelerate fast) and if I were to start at 80%.. then there is only about 25 km of frantic driving down to 60. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Robse said: I don't understand all this "nonsense" about charging batteries at all. If a battery is stated to be able to store 1800 WH, and it is sold with this capacity, then surely it is also meant to be used? Or are we in the situation that a car with a petrol tank of 100 liters can only be filled up to 80? Then the very smartest thing would be for the battery packs to be designed from the start so that they could never be charged to more than 80%, and that they were then sold with the capacity they have at this charge. In addition, you would also have to adjust the voltage, as this would not be able to be set to, for example, 100 volts, when the truth is that the battery pack starts down at 96 volts (80%) I simply think it's completely bs. Range is unsustainable when you are not allowed to charge up to full capacity. So is any margin of safety. I don't trust my RS19 when it reaches below 60% (avoid riding to fast, accelerate fast) and if I were to start at 80%.. then there is only about 25 km of frantic driving down to 60. Well if you need the range - then sure charge it full every day. What you gonna do? Walk half way? Same for speed.. (as you said) I charge every time to 100% - When i charge it.. 80% charging is very BAD also! Battery pack doesn't get any real balancing done. @novazeus i do hope you charge to 100% every second or third time.. I do that every time. Because i have been riding 2 weeks without charging once. And my cells are imbalanced way worse, compared if i would charge it every second day.. I can easily ride even at 30% - no alarms what so ever - when i'm riding my own speed. I simply have to powerful wheel - for my needs. Edited January 12 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Robse said: I don't understand all this "nonsense" about charging batteries at all. If a battery is stated to be able to store 1800 WH, and it is sold with this capacity, then surely it is also meant to be used? Or are we in the situation that a car with a petrol tank of 100 liters can only be filled up to 80? Then the very smartest thing would be for the battery packs to be designed from the start so that they could never be charged to more than 80%, and that they were then sold with the capacity they have at this charge. In addition, you would also have to adjust the voltage, as this would not be able to be set to, for example, 100 volts, when the truth is that the battery pack starts down at 96 volts (80%) I simply think it's completely bs. Range is unsustainable when you are not allowed to charge up to full capacity. So is any margin of safety. I don't trust my RS19 when it reaches below 60% (avoid riding to fast, accelerate fast) and if I were to start at 80%.. then there is only about 25 km of frantic driving down to 60. Also we where talking about why i wasn't charging my wheel every day.. (As i said i don't need the range. And i don't go fast. And my battery would be sitting above 90% ALL THE TIME.) Not about 80% crap. @novazeus came here with that. Hey you charge to 80% only? Never 100%? You gonna have problems sooner or later. Have you heard about battery fires? (Luckily you store those wheels outside, so not a problem.) Or best scenario - dead battery pack? Doh if it dies while riding - Good Luck. Edited January 12 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 8 minutes ago, Robse said: I don't understand all this "nonsense" about charging batteries at all. If a battery is stated to be able to store 1800 WH, and it is sold with this capacity, then surely it is also meant to be used? Or are we in the situation that a car with a petrol tank of 100 liters can only be filled up to 80? Then the very smartest thing would be for the battery packs to be designed from the start so that they could never be charged to more than 80%, and that they were then sold with the capacity they have at this charge. In addition, you would also have to adjust the voltage, as this would not be able to be set to, for example, 100 volts, when the truth is that the battery pack starts down at 96 volts (80%) I simply think it's completely bs. Range is unsustainable when you are not allowed to charge up to full capacity. So is any margin of safety. I don't trust my RS19 when it reaches below 60% (avoid riding to fast, accelerate fast) and if I were to start at 80%.. then there is only about 25 km of frantic driving down to 60. i've been right there with u. but what elon said made sense, except he's talking about a vehicle that won't kill u if it cuts out, unless u pulled out in front of a semi or crossing a railroad track, but our wheels don't have two hub motors or four, only one. so no way would i ride down to 10%. i don't need to on the ranch. but on the other hand, i've been manually charging with the generator and watching it closely, and if i can run in the 60% to 80% range on all my wheels, on my road with the michelin tires, i'll get 20 miles or one mile per one percent. and that's going as fast as i can. which is topping out around 30mph. i doubt being a pedal pusher, i could ever overlean at 60%. so park that one and grab one of it's twins and run it down to 60%. i think elon's explanation of charging is excellent, and for grins, and i'm recuperating anyway, i'm gonna time how long it takes to charge to 80% from 60%. get a baseline. i will be building a more permanent temporary structure, and it will be designed from scratch to be completely offgrid, non-taxable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robse Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 12 minutes ago, novazeus said: i've been right there with u. but what elon said made sense, except he's talking about a vehicle that won't kill u if it cuts out, unless u pulled out in front of a semi or crossing a railroad track, but our wheels don't have two hub motors or four, only one. so no way would i ride down to 10%. i don't need to on the ranch. but on the other hand, i've been manually charging with the generator and watching it closely, and if i can run in the 60% to 80% range on all my wheels, on my road with the michelin tires, i'll get 20 miles or one mile per one percent. and that's going as fast as i can. which is topping out around 30mph. i doubt being a pedal pusher, i could ever overlean at 60%. so park that one and grab one of it's twins and run it down to 60%. i think elon's explanation of charging is excellent, and for grins, and i'm recuperating anyway, i'm gonna time how long it takes to charge to 80% from 60%. get a baseline. i will be building a more permanent temporary structure, and it will be designed from scratch to be completely offgrid, non-taxable. This is the best: "offgrid, non-taxable. " 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 28 minutes ago, Robse said: This is the best: "offgrid, non-taxable. " 😁 real estate taxes on this whole place, everything, 325 acres, about $1600. without cows, unzoned, $75k. zoned mpud without cows, millions each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/12/2024 at 6:28 AM, BKW said: What are some worst case scenarios that can happen when riding in very cold temperatures on your EUC? Will it cut out? Will it damage the battery? Etc. I ask because I will be riding in cold temps for extended times this winter. Last thing I want is for my EUC to cut out unexpectedly due to freezing temps and me die in the process. Last winter I rode an old S-18, this winter I'm riding an old V11. When I ride fast (40kmh-ish) in extreme cold (below -35c), i.e. worst case scenario, I find that the wheels eventually get into a weird tilting action, forward and back. With the S-18 this came on quite quickly, and I'd have to jump off and let the wheel ride ahead without me :-). With the V11 this year it has meant that one day I had to walk it up a steep hill as the pedals were tilted so far forward I couldn't put any weight on the front of the wheel to get it to move. Once I got to the top of the fill I was able to carry on, if cautiously. I solved the problem with the S-18 by putting a clear plastic bag over it, this keeps the super-chilled wind from streaming over the components at 40kmh. Amazingly, it worked, and I had no more issues. I haven't done that with the V11 (so far) because the tilting is mild enough that I can still ride, especially now that I know that is happening. FWIW these issues only arose when riding below -30c, and my commute time is around 20 minutes door to door. Longer trips might have these same issues in slightly warmer temps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 -11c outside today, went on some errands, even with double socks and warm winter shoes if I had a temp sensor on my feet would probably show 0c. 🥶 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I left my V11 out in the 3c garage overnight, but turned on. In the morning all the temperature readings for the wheel were around 19-23 degrees. Rode it to work in -15c without issue. If the wheel hadn't been turned on I would have brought it inside to warm up a bit before riding it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robse Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 25 minutes ago, winterwheel said: I left my V11 out in the 3c garage overnight, but turned on. In the morning all the temperature readings for the wheel were around 19-23 degrees. Rode it to work in -15c without issue. If the wheel hadn't been turned on I would have brought it inside to warm up a bit before riding it. turned on without charger attached? how much was the consumption / hours turned on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 23 minutes ago, winterwheel said: I left my V11 out in the 3c garage overnight, but turned on. When you leave your V11 turned on overnight, how many % battery do you typically lose? I left my V12 at 5C turned off overnight. I rode with a full battery in -13C without issue, but I didn't ride fast though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 37 minutes ago, winterwheel said: I left my V11 out in the 3c garage overnight, but turned on. In the morning all the temperature readings for the wheel were around 19-23 degrees. Rode it to work in -15c without issue. If the wheel hadn't been turned on I would have brought it inside to warm up a bit before riding it. What's the benefit of doing that? Not like it will keep batteries warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Rawnei said: What's the benefit of doing that? Not like it will keep batteries warm. Doesn't it? Even when i turned my wheel on for 5 min in cold (not riding simply leaned against fall, keeping balance). The temps went up by about 3-4C Motor from 0C > 3C Motherboard from 3C > 7C I could imagine batteries also would warm up, as they are now somewhat working.. Edited January 16 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, Funky said: Doesn't it? Even when i turned my wheel on for 5 min in cold (not riding simply leaned against fall, keeping balance). The temps went up by about 3-4C Motor from 0C > 3C Motherboard from 3C > 7C I could imagine batteries also would warm up, as they are now somewhat working.. Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 (edited) 1 minute ago, Rawnei said: Nope. But why did the motor and motherboard then? And after ~15min ride motor/motherboard was in "2" digit temps. Edited January 16 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Funky said: But why did the motor and motherboard then? Electronics warm up a bit under use but there's not really any meaningfull current draw from he batteries when wheel is idle. Edited January 16 by Rawnei 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robse Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 just made a quick test on my 16x, power on, light off, power consumption reading in euc world and wheel log < 0.0 amps. So the max amp use can not be any more than 0.09999 amp at 84 volts, thats a max of 8,4 watts in standstill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 A better method if you want to keep the cells warm and if you have outlets in your garage is to buy a heating source like a heater fan or radiator, place it close to the wheel on a timer so that it turns on an hour or two before use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rawnei said: A better method if you want to keep the cells warm and if you have outlets in your garage is to buy a heating source like a heater fan or radiator, place it close to the wheel on a timer so that it turns on an hour or two before use. Or, put it on a timer, and charge the last 5% - 10% including cell balancing just before it is used. Work out the approximate time period required and set the timer. Edited January 17 by techyiam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKW Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I literally just finished a 19F food delivery shift doing 12 hours on my Sherman Max. Running fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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