Master, CMini/Extreme/Patton, or Lynx?

[Parker]

Hello, long time lurker and first time posting. TL; DR: looking for advice on next EUC purchase (Master, CMini/Extreme/Patton, Lynx).
 
Background: 150lb recreational rider primarily riding on paved roads but have mild off-road curiosities. I bought an MTen3 from eWheels a few years ago. I’ve ridden it hundreds of miles on paved streets and through dirt, grass, gravel, over mole-holes, etc. I want to be able to travel further, faster, and more comfortably for a diversified experience. Ultimately, I want to be able to participate in group rides and also be able to explore both natural and urban environments on my own. I live in Oregon and the riding season for me is cut short due to restrictive weather conditions. I’m in it for the long haul, I feel like I want to skip the mid-grade stuff like the V12HT, T4 or 16X since I won’t be making another purchase after this one unless something breaks.

The decision to get an MTen3 (MTen4 was not available at the time, bummer!) as my beginner wheel over an MCM5 V2 or a V8 or something just slightly fancier than a “toy/trick wheel” as many have put it was because I wanted something to train on while also retaining value as a super light backpackable PEV after I inevitably take the plunge to purchase a “real wheel”. 

I’m turning 40 this summer and have selfishly decided that a new EUC is a better investment than a family vacation. Yeah, terrible. Anyways… to the meat:

Use case: mainly recreational street riding, looking to dabble off-road but no crazy shibby jumps or single-track stuff (not yet… you know how these things go). Sunny, dry rides. Group rides. Longer rides would be cool but I don’t imagine needing more than 60 miles 95% of the time. The 100+ miles long-range riding has an appeal but certainly not the priority.

Looking for: speed up to 50mph, suspension would be nice, under 100lbs, longevity (durability in the event of a fall in addition to battery life, build quality, low maintenance), water-proofing is not so important since we are moving soon, no DIY shenanigans other than pads or basic plug and play that doesn’t involve voiding my warranty. I don’t want a Bluetooth speaker on my wheel.

The wheels that I have poured more hours than I will admit watching videos and reading reviews on are (in order of price, not preference):

1.    Begode Master - Fast, suspension, tried and true, adequate range. Begode craftsmanship and possible safety shortcomings but cheap as they come for the specs. Plenty of reported cutouts and suspension issues, but that won’t happen to me, right? The price is the main draw for me here.
2.    EB Commander Mini – Not enough information out on this one yet, but it has mostly positive reviews and it seems durable. Stiff suspension, yeah, but I will be mainly be street riding. The OneRide Toronto review piqued my interest in the Cmini. Also, Marty and his 300-mile review. Again, the price on this one can’t be ignored. It is a small chunk more than the Master and a completely different wheel.
3.    Begode Extreme – Everything awesome about this wheel, including the price for what you get. However, I don’t envision myself doing too much intense off-roading and it is difficult to justify what this wheel accommodates. More suspension travel and a nice torquey feel but it is definitely geared towards more extreme riders. I guess you could always argue that just because it is capable of doing extreme things doesn’t mean that I have to engage in extreme things. Roughly 30% or $1000 more than a Master, though. Doesn’t seem worth it for my particular use case.
4.    Veteran Patton – It’s a Veteran. This brand seems to be aligned with my philosophy on so many levels. I strongly value durability and build-quality. I like the timeless aesthetic of Veteran wheels. I don’t want a Bluetooth speaker. The Patton is only marginally more expensive than the Extreme, but around 30% more than a CMini. Performance, ride feel, and all-around specs are spot on. Price is the main concern. 
5.    Veteran Sherman Max/S/Lynx – We’re hovering around the $4k price point here… Shermax for the urge to go 100+ miles. SS for that cushy suspension, but then I should go Patton because I probably won’t neeeed the range. Plus, Patton might feel more carvy and nimble/fun due to smaller diameter. Hmm… but then there is the Lynx. The Lynx although pricey has all the Veteran niceties but is a batch 1 which might be of concern, but the weight is the same as the Patton. This is truly a remarkable achievement for an already impressive state-of-the-art vehicle. 

Conclusion: I guess I could narrow it down to just 3, sorry for all the jib-jab – do I go cheap and get a Master? The specs for the price can not be denied. Will the thing really dump me or catch on fire or break if I look at it wrong? Safety is a concern, but there is already inherent risk in undertaking EUC riding as a hobby. #2 would probably be Cmini over the Patton purely because of price. Besides cushy suspension and all of the Veteran TLC, the CMini is a whole MTen4 cheaper than a Patton and ride specs are quite similar(-ish). #3 would be the Lynx. I really don’t want to have to get the Lynx, but it seems pretty darn close to the perfect EUC that does it all that I would not have to replace any time soon. I don’t have the appetite for the new 168V stuff.

Thank you for reading and for your feedback. 
 

[MDLNDR]

I'm very interested to follow along here. I'm in exactly the same boat but have a deposit down on a  Cmini with eWheels when new batch comes in this month (50S).

[techyiam]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:55 PM, Parker said:

Use case: mainly recreational street riding, looking to dabble off-road but no crazy shibby jumps or single-track stuff (not yet… you know how these things go). Sunny, dry rides. Group rides. Longer rides would be cool but I don’t imagine needing more than 60 miles 95% of the time. The 100+ miles long-range riding has an appeal but certainly not the priority.

Looking for: speed up to 50mph, suspension would be nice, under 100lbs, longevity (durability in the event of a fall in addition to battery life, build quality, low maintenance), water-proofing is not so important since we are moving soon, no DIY shenanigans other than pads or basic plug and play that doesn’t involve voiding my warranty.

 

On 1/4/2024 at 1:55 PM, Parker said:

looking for advice on next EUC purchase (Master, CMini/Extreme/Patton, Lynx).

Given your use-case, criteria, and background, if I were you, I would get the Patton.

The Lynx has 20" a wheel (vs 16"), and is a bit more refined, but it cost significantly more. So far, range-wise, the range on the Lynx has not been too good. (see Duf's range test). In his range test, he got about the same range as his Patton. The Patton will be more agile and responsive. Coming from a MTen3, you may like the Patton more. It's a bit smaller step. Mind you, any wheel that you upgrade to will be big step.

Having said that, since you are upgrading from a MTen3, getting a V12 HT would not be such a bad investment at your stage of the game, IMO.

 

Edited January 6 by techyiam

[Janus]

Just now, techyiam said:

 

Given your use-case, and criteria, and background, if I were you, I would get the Patton.

The Lynx has 20" a wheel (vs 16"), and is a bit more refined, but it cost significantly more. So far, range-wise, the range on the Lynx has not been too good. (see Duf's range test). In his range test, he got about the same range as his Patton. The Patton will be more agile and responsive. Coming from a MTen3, you may like the Patton more. It's a bit smaller step. Mind you, any wheel that you upgrade to will be big step.

Having said that, since you are upgrading from a MTen3, getting a V12 HT would not be such a bad investment at your stage of the game, IMO.

 

I totally agree that the Patton would be great and its price is dropping with Lynx coming. Secondhand market is very active. For a do-it-all wheel, it seems very suitable.

That being said, honestly, the Master is quite good too for a still-heavy do-it-all wheel with good range. I have a 2400Wh V2 with self-installed upgraded suspension and I am using it only for off-roading - nevertheless I would feel more secure with a V4, and even more with a Patton. The price tag for the Master is now very attractive. The suspension is not the best but it is very smooth to ride. Surely you do not need the offroading capacities and power of Begode Extreme and Veteran Lynx at this point - I would get them if I had the money !

Regarding V12HT which is not suspended...I would not recommend it and in particular if you want to go a bit faster, a bit further, and in trickier offroad places. I am still using my light, suspended, still-functioning-despite-shitty-battery KingSong S18 for my street/train/street home-to-work commuting (and sometimes a few urban tricks in stairs etc). I abandoned my previoulsy worshiped Tesla because the suspension is too important for me now: in particular it is life-saving by night with potholes (I broke 2 ribs 2 times). I would never take the Master for that, or a Patton; this is the luxury of having one wheel per use case. To my mind, no suspended wheel is suitable for this daily case (using a very crowded train) since V11/S18: their followers are toooooooo heavy.

In summary: 1/Patton 2/Master V4 (with fairing plates), both with good power pads to control them correctly

Last advice: test them all if you can ! You will be amazed by their power AND their weight.

[UniVehje]

You have a mix of 12” rim and 14” rim options. I think you should first narrow down on the size. That’s because they ride differently. It’s not a case of better or worse. It’s a matter of taste mainly. A little bit also about how tall you are. Both are good and popular options. Smaller reacts faster and has smaller turning circle but is also less stable on long rides. Bigger is a bit more relaxed ride. Both are totally fine for everything you do but it makes sense to optimize for the style or riding you’ll mostly engage in. Coming from mten3 both feel very big of course. 
 

For your described use case I would choose 14” rim. And unless you plan to always go beyond 60 miles, I would not choose heavier than needed (large battery). You feel the weight on every corner and you can always get a fast charger for those few times you go for a very long ride. 

[techyiam]

55 minutes ago, Janus said:

That being said, honestly, the Master is quite good too for a still-heavy do-it-all wheel with good range. I have a 2400Wh V2 with self-installed upgraded suspension and I am using it only for off-roading - nevertheless I would feel more secure with a V4, and even more with a Patton. The price tag for the Master is now very attractive. The suspension is not the best but it is very smooth to ride.

You have look at his criteria. He doesn't want to do mods to a wheel. For the Master V4, right now I have only seen Johnny Go Vroom's first impression. It's too early yet to draw a conclusion. Whereas, the Patton out-of-the-box stands out, overall, right now. 

1 hour ago, Janus said:

Regarding V12HT which is not suspended...I would not recommend it and in particular if you want to go a bit faster, a bit further, and in trickier offroad places. I am still using my light, suspended, still-functioning-despite-shitty-battery KingSong S18 for my street/train/street home-to-work commuting (and sometimes a few urban tricks in stairs etc). I abandoned my previoulsy worshiped Tesla because the suspension is too important for me now: in particular it is life-saving by night with potholes (I broke 2 ribs 2 times)

I don't ride my T3 much anymore, but I do still ride my V12. I think the V12 is a nice riding wheel, even against suspension wheel like the S22 all dialled-in. I would choose a V12 over an out-of-box S22, for my use-case, no drops, stairs, nor jumps on city streets and bike paths.

On a dry, smooth road, I would choose my V12 over my dialled-in S22. Plus the V12 has dynamic tilt-back. It's a nice feature.

There are two reasons why I suggest the V12 as a 2nd wheel for him instead.

(1) The V12 is solid wheel. It rides well, reliable, and is well made.

(2) This is only his 2nd wheel, and he is upgrading from a MTen3. By the time he is ready for 50+ mph rides on an euc, better euc's would have come out. Moreover, currently, V12's are heavily discounted, making them great value.

 

 

 

[techyiam]

43 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

For your described use case I would choose 14” rim. And unless you plan to always go beyond 60 miles, I would not choose heavier than needed (large battery). You feel the weight on every corner and you can always get a fast charger for those few times you go for a very long ride. 

+1.

In the long run for the O.P. a 14" rim wheel with a 4P battery could be quite ideal. However, whether he can get 60 miles range would depend on his speed.

Personally, this would be my prefer wheel form-factor. But I don't need a top speed of more than 70 km/h at the. moment.

Unfortunately, ranges between the V12, S22, Patton, and Lynx are about the same, more or less.

These are the 20", 4P wheels available at the moment (or by February-March timeframe?)

(1) Master

(2) S22 Pro

(3) S19

(4) Lynx

(5) Commander GT (not sure who would want to buy one even if you could)

(6) Commander GT Pro

(7) ET Max.

 

[Janus]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

You have look at his criteria. He doesn't want to do mods to a wheel. For the Master V4, right now I have only seen Johnny Go Vroom's first impression. It's too early yet to draw a conclusion. Whereas, the Patton out-of-the-box stands out, overall, right now. 

I don't ride my T3 much anymore, but I do still ride my V12. I think the V12 is a nice riding wheel, even against suspension wheel like the S22 all dialled-in. I would choose a V12 over an out-of-box S22, for my use-case, no drops, stairs, nor jumps on city streets and bike paths.

On a dry, smooth road, I would choose my V12 over my dialled-in S22. Plus the V12 has dynamic tilt-back. It's a nice feature.

There are two reasons why I suggest the V12 as a 2nd wheel for him instead.

(1) The V12 is solid wheel. It rides well, reliable, and is well made.

(2) This is only his 2nd wheel, and he is upgrading from a MTen3. By the time he is ready for 50+ mph rides on an euc, better euc's would have come out. Moreover, currently, V12's are heavily discounted, making them great value.

 

 

 

I tried the V12 of my cousin and it is a really good wheel indeed. But for versatility, I would rather go to suspension for a second wheel.

[techyiam]

11 minutes ago, Janus said:

I tried the V12 of my cousin and it is a really good wheel indeed. But for versatility, I would rather go to suspension for a second wheel.

I would generally agree with you. But he is still riding an MTen3. In my book, I wouldn't call that a real first wheel, from a learning perspective.

Moreover, many of the better suspension wheels are large, and heavy for a second wheel.

The V12 is a good value, and would be a good progression from an MTen3, compared to many of the suspension wheels. Other wheels such as the S16 Pro, V11Y, and S19 could be candidates but are more money. Either they are not out yet, or has only been out for a short period of time, and doesn't seem to be in high demand.

To me, a bad suspension is over-rated. However, a good suspension wheel that is well dialled-in is another matter.

Good suspension wheels out-of-the-box are few. Maybe, the Patton, Lynx, and S22 Pro. I would exclude the Commander Mini, Master, and the Extreme. The V14 barely out,  and batch 2 isn't here. And that is a heavy wheel. Also, 3600 Wh or higher suspension wheels are probably not what he wants.

Furthermore, don't neglect his criteria that he doesn't want to have to mod his new wheel, and wants a wheel that is reliable, durable, easy to maintain, and well built.

To me, the Patton checks most of the boxes.

 

[Parker]

I ended up purchasing an EB Commander Mini. Thank you all so much for the detailed responses.

Patton certainly was the one that checked all the boxes and seemed most suitable for my use while also allowing the versatility to explore beyond the urban setting. What really stopped me was the price. In my head, I was thinking that if I were to choose the Patton, why not just spend the extra $1k USD and get the Lynx. Yes, it is bigger but the weight is the same and the specs are nothing short of impressive. Since budget was factored in to my decision, the Patton/Lynx slipped away. Price:specs is very important to me. Patton would have been quite luxurious. I decided to save the difference in cost between CMini & Patton and allocate the roughly $800 savings towards protective gear (time to go down the protective gear rabbit hole...) 

I did consider the S22 as well even though it was not listed on my post but was quickly deterred from digging too deep due to reported issues with the suspension in addition to having to convince myself to spend $1k more than the Master which was darn close to being the wheel that I picked. The Master vs the S22 decision was again boiled down to price and Master price: specs won.

I am aware that the MTen3 is a terrible reference to compare any real wheel to but it's all I have to work with. The things that I love about the MTen3 is how nimble, carvy, and fun it is to ride. It will not become obsolete because of its unique nature in addition to being a great wheel to introduce friends to. I imagine the smaller 16" wheels being more suited to my tastes, especially with how stable they have been reported to be for being smaller wheels. The reason I did not go for the Extreme was because the majority of my rides with be on paved roads and it seemed that the CMini does this "better". I do not want to have to put a street tire on an Extreme. The V12HT was also a strong contender, but it was missing the suspension and top speed that I desire in addition to being the same cost (or more depending where you shop) as a Master. Top speed should not be a huge priority especially for a 16" and many claim that you do not want speed on these smaller wheels, but the extra bandwidth is quite welcome especially once I become acclimated to my first real wheel.

Thank you all again for taking the time to express your input. Now to spend forever searching for gear... I took a peak and, gosh, it is daunting. 

[Marty Backe]

Restricting the choices to the wheels that you've mentioned, I would absolutely recommend the Lynx as the only wheel to own. I own the Master, Mini, and Lynx and have ridden the Extreme a bit and the Patton a tiny bit. Of course I have a few other wheels too.

After about 600-miles on the Lynx it has remained my favorite wheel to ride (unless I need the range of a 3600+ wh wheel). Personally I think it's the 2024 wheel of choice. My batch 1 wheel has been perfect.

If you only have one wheel, I think 20-inches is the way to go. That eliminates the Patton and Mini. And there's no comparison between the Master and Lynx in terms of ride quality (and quality in general). But of course it can be had for a lot less money. So there's that.

But, at the end of the day I'll tell you that you'll love whichever wheel you get. This isn't 2016  They're all awesome and fun to ride.

Good luck.

[Patrick Robert]

20 minutes ago, Parker said:

What really stopped me was the price.

From experience, quality often ends up being less expensive. But yeah, these things are pricey. 

[novazeus]

41 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Restricting the choices to the wheels that you've mentioned, I would absolutely recommend the Lynx as the only wheel to own. I own the Master, Mini, and Lynx and have ridden the Extreme a bit and the Patton a tiny bit. Of course I have a few other wheels too.

After about 600-miles on the Lynx it has remained my favorite wheel to ride (unless I need the range of a 3600+ wh wheel). Personally I think it's the 2024 wheel of choice. My batch 1 wheel has been perfect.

If you only have one wheel, I think 20-inches is the way to go. That eliminates the Patton and Mini. And there's no comparison between the Master and Lynx in terms of ride quality (and quality in general). But of course it can be had for a lot less money. So there's that.

But, at the end of the day I'll tell you that you'll love whichever wheel you get. This isn't 2016  They're all awesome and fun to ride.

Good luck.

@Marty Backecould u please try and describe the difference in suspensions between ur s22 and ur lynx?

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Parker said:

the Master which was darn close to being the wheel that I picked.

If you had, then you would have broken one of your criteria of not wanting a DIY project out-of-the-box.

1 hour ago, Parker said:

I did consider the S22 as well even though it was not listed on my post but was quickly deterred from digging too deep due to reported issues with the suspension

Since you are silently opened to buying a Master, then if I were you, I would have bought the S22/Pro, due to your tight budget. The S22/Pro would have serve you well. I found my S22 has stability very similar to a small displacement motorcycle at around 30 mph on bumpy city streets. It is most impress under cold, bumpy, and wet and slippery road conditions. Additionally, I have never experienced wobbles of any kind on my S22. And it corners effortlessly without any special technique to compensate. It is easier and more predictable to corner at high speeds on my S22 than my V12.

I know you are thinking about the 50+ mph speeds, but you only have ridden several hundred miles on a MTen3. And the Mini is not one of the more stable wheels for 50+ mph riding. Riding euc's at high speeds is not like riding at high speeds on a motorcycle. You just don't twist the throttle.

But in the end, if you are indeed enthusiastic about riding euc's, it is doubtful the Mini would be your last wheel, especially if it is a possibility that you can use it to ride car-replacement miles. Once you can, it is very easy to justify buying another euc since car or motorcycle ownership costs are way higher.

You never know. Maybe the Mini can work out well for you.

[Parker]

I am certain that the Mini will be not be my last wheel. The budget isn't necessarily tight, but rather price: specs ratio is what steered me towards the Mini. Admittedly specs on paper aren't everything, but they aren't nothing either. It is so difficult to decipher the YouTube reviews. Honestly, like Marty was saying "this isn't 2016 and they are all awesome and fun to ride." I couldn't agree more. I am sure you guys scoff at my MTen3, but when I received it I was really expecting something to the tune of a hoverboard toy after reading all of the reviews. Totally not the case. It is a beast of a machine. I can't even begin to imagine the impression the current wheels will have on me.

The Lynx... oh the Lynx. I poured over the Marty + Dawn + Roger videos for hours and hours and this definitely seems like a "one wheel to rule them all" sort of a deal. Coming from an MTen3 though -- this Parker guy just wouldn't do it justice. Maybe one day.

I am certain that my arsenal will eventually incorporate a long range 3600wh+ 20" wheel to explore long, scenic roads and trails. For now, I'll stick with the urban/city rides with a small morsel of easy trails. I come from a very small community and I am the only EUC rider for about a 50 mile radius.

Thank you all, I really appreciate all of the helpful feedback. 

[Parker]

7 hours ago, Patrick Robert said:

From experience, quality often ends up being less expensive. But yeah, these things are pricey. 

"Don't sell me the cheap stuff, I can't afford it" I think Sandy Munro once said. I am hoping that is not entirely the case with EUCs, but this ancient wisdom generally tends to hold true.

Will it be the same for my gear hunt? I don't want to skimp on safety, but I'm not too keen on designer handbags either.   

[Parker Noodles]

To a point, the $400 Mobius knee braces are pointless imho, but the $15 aliexpress special probably isn't a good choice. The main thing is to get gear that you will actually wear, don't want to get stuff that you'll end up not using because its too hot, takes too long to put on, looks stupid, etc.

Personally I would look for a good helmet (not the TSG or Predator ones), a pair of Leatt knee guards, a pair of wristguards/gloves, and an abrasion resistant/padded jacket (CE AA and level 2 pads). You can get more gear past that, but I feel that its no longer the difference between walking away and ending up in the hospital, just a question of how bruised or how much roadrash you get.

[Patrick Robert]

2 hours ago, Parker said:

Will it be the same for my gear hunt? I don't want to skimp on safety, but I'm not too keen on designer handbags either.   

You just get good gear that lasts long. It gets cheaper to have more expensive items that last a long time. I've had the same gear, including helmets, for at least two years. Just added small items. 

It's not how much you spend, it's how often.

And sometimes spending more on the actual wheel is worth it, because it already is a decent ride out of the box. No costly parts upgrades required to make it so. 

[RafaPGarcia]

Hi @Parker In case this helps, here you have a comparission table of your selected wheels.

I applied some filters and patton is not fitting your speed expectations (that's why it's not in the table).

 

Also, since you're mentioning that's mostyl for recreational uses, I've used a "Comfort" preset to sort them, but this can be modified.

[RagingGrandpa]

On 1/4/2024 at 4:55 PM, Parker said:

looking for advice on next EUC purchase (Master, CMini/Extreme/Patton, Lynx)

You didn't mention your level of tolerance for mechanically repairing and maintaining the EUC by yourself... that's a big difference among the models you mention.

Air springs leak by design (Master + Extreme). It's a hassle. You can DIY upgrade to coils, but that's also a hassle.

I love how CMini rides, but am concerned about durability and parts availability for it in the future, since it's got the bizarre no-name struts with many tiny plastic rollers, and is a low-volume model with almost no parts shared with other EUCs.

Leaperkims are the easiest to own. Used Pattons are a great value. Especially if it's your first fullsize EUC (e.g.: you're gonna drop it a bunch of times), don't blow $4k on a brand new premium Lynx just to bash it up. 

.02

Edited January 8 by RagingGrandpa

[OldSolo]

1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

You didn't mention your level of tolerance for mechanically repairing and maintaining the EUC by yourself... that's a big difference among the models you mention.

Air springs leak by design (Master + Extreme). It's a hassle. You can DIY upgrade to coils, but that's also a hassle.

I love how CMini rides, but am concerned about durability and parts availability for it in the future, since it's got the bizarre struts with many tiny plastic rollers, and is a small-volume product.

Leaperkims are the easiest to own. Used Pattons are a great value. Especially if it's your first fullsize EUC (e.g.: you're gonna drop it a bunch of times), don't blow $4k on a brand new premium Lynx just to bash it up. 

.021

Nope, mini doesn't have the rollers that the Commander did, much improved design.  Watch the complete teardown that 2Cells1Pack did, it REALLY impressed me with the construction.  Yeah, there some things that needed checking (as do all, such as tightening bolts, etc), but he was extremely impressed with the quality.

As someone awaiting deliver of my Mini tomorrow, the only negative I can see is the potential for suspension to be too stiff.  I have been exploring options for springs, and have found that there are a TON of companies out there with THOUSANDS of different spec'd compression springs.  Also custom wound springs are not going to be cost prohibitive.  I intend to take my Mini apart to check bolt torque & apply Loctite (as is a recurrent theme for EUCs) as well as change the tire (Shinko SR241 trials-type knobby with excellent street manners).  Doing that will give the me the reason to go ahead and disassemble the shocks to measure springs, and to see what all is involved in actual disassembly.  I may film it or at least show photos, as I am curious about what the damper structure is.  At that point it will be relatively simple to look through spring suppliers & grab a couple IF the proper size can be found in stock.

Although there will be a bit of work in doing the disassembly, there should be a modest cost for the springs themselves.  I hope someone will consider doing this for Patton riders, as many have springs that are too soft.  The idea of "buy a complete replacement shock" that Leaper Kim is telling folks is ridiculous.  It shows HOW LITTLE these companies actually know about motorcycle & MTB suspension.

Otherwise these are really well designed & executed wheels.  The 'all metal' was a big thing to me, seeing how much got dinged up on my A2 from a tumble.  Yeah, new side plates & pads seem to be needed.  But I have never even RIDDEN WITH PADS yet, so I have little idea of what I want!  Changing a headlight is trivial & cheap to do.  I'd likely throw in a small driving light (= narrow beam, easier NOT to blind people!) & call it good.

 

[OldSolo]

Last night my doorbell rang ... shocked to see UPS out there.  Delivery a DAY EARLY?!?!  Who would have guessed!  I pulled it out, took out of transport mode, and put a charger on it.  It showed 5 bars but did charge for 3-4 hrs, so everything is definitely balanced at this point.  I will be doing some disassembly today & will report back with my findings about the suspension.  Given that I am still a RANK beginner, I am not even feeling any urgency about riding this quite yet.  Want to get better on the A2 & learn to free mount.  Raining today, and it has been cold enough to keep me from riding.  It is a good time for swapping tires, checking bolts, examining & measuring suspension, etc.  Would be nice to have a spring rate tester ... need to think about how to do it, probably poke around online.  Then we can have AN ANSWER to the actual spring rate on the Mini, and then see what is available to swap out.  I am considering getting two shorter springs of different rates to build in some progression.  A true progressive wound spring would be awesome but obviously isn't going to be available 'off the shelf' assuming I can even FIND a proper size.

There are companies who will custom wind springs - if it gets to that point, I will explore costs & then begin a new thread.  Perhaps someone will be bold & take a Patton apart & get some measurements.  Again, it is ABSURD to tell people to buy a complete replacement unit to change spring rates!

[bpong]

On 1/6/2024 at 1:18 PM, Marty Backe said:

...,

If you only have one wheel, I think 20-inches is the way to go. That eliminates the Patton and Mini. And there's no comparison between the Master and Lynx in terms of ride quality (and quality in general). But of course it can be had for a lot less money. So there's that.

But, at the end of the day I'll tell you that you'll love whichever wheel you get. This isn't 2016  They're all awesome and fun to ride.

Good luck.

mr. Backe,

could one also include the S22 pro latest version ?  i kno its had a history of problems from its initial introduction.  but from what ive been reading on this forum,  it looks like its issues have been mostly resolved.  i only ask this cause im in the same situation as the author of this topic,  but i believe i will probably use the euc less than the author.  i only ride during 3 of the 4 seasons,  and mostly in dry weather.  and its mainly commuting.  i have seen the aforementioned wheels at the shop (except for the lynx) and they are impressive.  but i cant get this thought out of my mind that i may be purchasing more wheel than i really need.  its not about affordability in my case,  its about what i feel comfortable with.  its analogous to me driving a porsche GT3 RS just across town a few blocks to get to work and back,  whereas i could have simply used a honda civic...

[novazeus]

the s22 is the equivalent to the "willys" jeep in the full size vehicle world. 

was it pleasant driving my open 2015 jeep rubicon two door to and from ft lauderdale? nope! but doable! 

jeeps have been around forever and people keep customizing them for their needs. and the s22 is easy to work on, even if ur taking copious amounts of thc. 

why i'll probably get a third. i like headroom, but 35 mph out here is damn near impossible. 

suspension opinions, are just that. my corvette zo6 had a real fancy electric partcle shocks, or a gm truck i had, but the vette would completely fall apart going across the pasture. hell, i took out a slightly heavier set girl on a date and scraped the bottom on the speed bumps in her apt complex. lynx is like a vette to me. and i might still get one for grins if i know i can mount a michelin tire on it. suspension wise, i'm thrilled with all my wheels suspensions now(i don't catch air intentionally nor are there stairs out here).

and now that i bought the new pro, and i guess it has a pro charger, haha, because it blasted all my batteries in the first one to perfections. 

first time in my life having 6 wheels with perfectly healthy batteries taking a full charge and then some. 

if u get one, ditch the knobby, unless u ride rocky, pebbled trails, and get the michelin pilot street 2 80/90 14r. the 90 size city grip 2 is fun, and i'll master it, but haha, with it's sneaky profile, can be hard to get back upright coming out of corners, but omg, it does grip. might be better up north if u learn it, although at 441 max load at 45psi, u could drop down to 35psi easy unless ur really fat.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, novazeus said:

if u get one, ditch the knobby, unless u ride rocky, pebbled trails, and get the michelin pilot street 2 80/90 14r. the 90 size city grip 2 is fun, and i'll master it, but haha, with it's sneaky profile, can be hard to get back upright coming out of corners, but omg, it does grip.

It looks like you prefer the Pilot Street over the City Grip. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.