Cold feet before first purchase, need your encouragement and advice.

[ssup2406]

Reading time: ~2 mins, thanks!
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Update: I ordered the S18! It was your support and encouragement that changed the equation, no second thoughts or regrets about the purchase, looking forward to being an active member of the community!
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Okay, so I've been researching for about 5 months now, easily might've put in 90-100 hours, maybe more, settled on the S18 for suspension and lower weight, I've put in my fair share in evaluating the options so not budging on the model. Last week I told my friends about my plans, I was strongly discouraged to go ahead with the purchase, a few days ago my parents discouraged me as well. This could be a sunken cost fallacy thing, but after putting in so much time, because of their reactions I don't feel happy and confident about my upcoming purchase at all, hence seeking your feedback.

Some background, I don't have my car anymore, I've a BMX, that suffices for my needs, just getting groceries 5 mins away, I don't go anyplace else (for now). I believe getting an EUC will give me more freedom to impulsively go wherever I want (similar to a car), with none of the parking and potential theft issues that come with e-bikes.

I can ride a unicycle, not well, but with a lot of active work and attention, not as relaxed and natural as a bike; so my question is will riding an EUC will be, over time surely, as comfortable as riding a bike? I read and believe that it becomes natural, but does it then also become comfortable? Let's say for 25-30km round trips (I love going to Costco for instance, I take the bus with my backpack there currently). Is this the floating you folks talk about!?

The other question is that I'll be essentially spending all my savings on the EUC+kit, got boots already in fact, will write a review if/when the occasion comes. I'm a student FWIW so the flow of cash isn't the highest. I've decided to have a PEV though, the other option I was considering and now reconsidering is converting my BMX to electric with a front hub motor and a molicel pack; I've been a fan of Grin Tech for many years, would go with their products for sure.

Would love to have your inputs on the subject, if you think I should go ahead with my EUC purchase then some encouragement will be immensely appreciated.

Thank you all for reading and potentially responding, wishing you all a great time of day and happy riding!

Edited May 15, 2023 by ssup2406
Update in situation

[I_Must_Bust]

It's more comfortable than a bike for me now! It took me a couple of weeks before I felt as comfortable as I do on a bike though.

[alcatraz]

The strongest argument against riding EUC is injury and perhaps destroying your home. Other than those two risks it's pretty damn fantastic. Read up on how to be safe in both areas, and you have a great chance of many worry free miles.

It takes a few months of regular riding to build up the new muscles you will be using. At first you'll be tired after 5min, but with regular riding you can get that number way up.

I haven't spent any money on gear or accessories. That's optional (depending on your view on it).

I haven't ridden a suspension wheel but I imagine that the suspension is either dialed in to smaller or larger shocks but not both at the same time. So you can still experience the tiresome road buzz but of course less of it, if you have the suspension dialed in for jumps and big bumps. Then there's the Master's suspension that is very soft but bottoms out easily. That's more aimed at road buzz.

[alcatraz]

My logic is like this. Any euc is faster than walking so you don't really "need" to be riding at 30mph or more. The added risk between 20 and 30 is huge. I'd rather ride 20 until I'm an old man, than have to stop riding because of a serious injury.

That doesn't mean I want a slow EUC. Every once in a while you hit a pothole or need to quickly overtake an obstacle. For those moments you need power and speed reserves. 

[woke rider]

3 hours ago, ssup2406 said:

The other question is that I'll be essentially spending all my savings on the EUC+kit,

 

3 hours ago, ssup2406 said:

I've a BMX, that suffices for my needs

 

3 hours ago, ssup2406 said:

've been researching for about 5 months now, easily might've put in 90-100 hours, maybe more, settled on the S18

 

3 hours ago, ssup2406 said:

Last week I told my friends about my plans, I was strongly discouraged to go ahead with the purchase, a few days ago my parents discouraged me as well.

 

3 hours ago, ssup2406 said:

don't feel happy and confident about my upcoming purchase at all, hence seeking your feedback.

You have expressed a lot of good reasons to at least put it off for a while. You haven't even identified one good reason to buy the S18, other than so you can be impulsive. Why did you ever want one? Are you usually afraid to pull the trigger for other decisions in life?

 

I can only relate my experience with the EUC lifestyle, I love it! Sometimes I do get this horrible feeling like I've made some kind of mistake that's going to land me in the hospital, or that I've wasted too much money, and so on. But that's only when I'm depressed because I could easily wear my gear when I go out and I would be a lot safer. I will always ride an electric unicycle, I get a lot of joy and satisfaction out of it, but it doesn't sound like you really even want one. You gotta at least have some good reasons to get one, and it' doesn't sound like you have any.

[ssup2406]

3 hours ago, earthtwin said:

You haven't even identified one good reason to buy the S18, other than so you can be impulsive. Why did you ever want one?

Impulsive purchases do not typically involve 5+ months of planning (you have my profile creation date and post history for verification!)! Although, I have indeed been admiring EUCs for 3 years now so there is a lot of attraction involved, if not impulsiveness, both are factors which diminish/dilute reason so cheers for raising this! In short the reason for getting is that are that it is the best solution to take on the train with me to avoid waiting and paying for public transport (the trains here have a weight and size limit as well), and also to avoid staying overnight at my destination since at present I cannot make it in time with the bus to catch the last train home (the bus runs like once an hour and not synced with the train timings to boot, and this is a connection, so 2 buses are involved!). This situation started like a couple of months ago and is expected to continue in the fall. S18 in particular because it will fit within the tolerated weight limit and I need suspension because of my starting to get bad knees and the road conditions here. Then there is the mobility factor, at present I am realistically limited to a 5km radius, a PEV will enable me to go farther, quicker, for cheaper (ignoring the upfront costs).

3 hours ago, earthtwin said:

Are you usually afraid to pull the trigger for other decisions in life?

This is my first big purchase in life, my car was a hand-me down within the family that cost me less than the S18! Also, I'll be buying it with a no interest, buy now, pay later plan, although at the end of it, the savings will still take the same hit! I will discuss with the seller on when it will be on discount next though, and if the price is the same I'll postpone the purchase. My original plan was getting comfortable with it in my hometown during the summer, then use it with this train commute in the fall and winter, will save around 2 hours and like 8 bucks in each one-way journey, not to mention not having to wait overnight! I'll ask the seller if they have Canada Day discounts or something similar, if the price is gonna be the same, I'll postpone the purchase to July.

[Tawpie]

Get it. You’ve spent months and still think you want it! Non-riders don’t understand, you can’t make them understand so just roll with the shaking heads. Absolutely it’s expensive, yes you can have an accident. But if it’s held you this long, I think you should take the plunge. 

[ssup2406]

6 hours ago, I_Must_Bust said:

It's more comfortable than a bike for me now! It took me a couple of weeks before I felt as comfortable as I do on a bike though.

That's super cool to know, cheers thanks!

4 hours ago, alcatraz said:

My logic is like this. Any euc is faster than walking so you don't really "need" to be riding at 30mph or more. The added risk between 20 and 30 is huge. I'd rather ride 20 until I'm an old man, than have to stop riding because of a serious injury.

Indeed, sticking to 20mph is the plan, that's the official speed limit on the bike paths here, and I don't want to be a safety risk to other people and their property and myself at the same time. I don't even know how insurance will work if a crash, I'll read up on it, but I sure as hell don't want to go through the rigmarole (and cause potential harm to others). I've been stupid with motor vehicles in the past (street racing, reckless driving, speeding) was extremely lucky to never have injured anyone or have my license revoked, or get caught; but it was squarely stupid, no two ways about it; and I still have flashbacks about different incidents from time to time. Mentioned this just to support my statement that I really mean it when I say that I intend to stay at to low speeds and be a responsible, sensible human. Thank you for bringing this point up, reinforcement is always appreciated! I was starting to have thoughts on using the road with the automobiles when I get comfortable, but I'll be sticking to the bike paths as much as possible (in many cases they're quicker to take where I am because many are on a different alignment altogeher (like along river banks) and hence don't have traffic lights/interruptions!).

4 hours ago, alcatraz said:

That doesn't mean I want a slow EUC. Every once in a while you hit a pothole or need to quickly overtake an obstacle. For those moments you need power and speed reserves. 

Exactly, reserves are everything in terms of safety! I hope that in some years, with further improvements in battery tech, smaller EUCs have the same safety margin as the V13s and Shermans of today!

[Hellkitten]

Where in Quebec are you? There is a decent pev riding scene in Montreal. 

Honestly an euc will fit very well into some peoples life and not others. It depends on your disposition and what you want. I came from a cycling background and a wheel fits perfectly into that slot. Some of the unique differences are, that because it’s not costing you personal energy you’re more likely to explore and go on random adventures. I’ve also met a community of people that I never would have.
I spent about six months looking into them before I bought a wheel. I’m absolutely happy that I did. The s18 is a nice little wheel. You’ll love it. You will hit the top speed and run out of range after a month of riding and want another one. Just a warning……..🤣

[Tawpie]

@Hellkitten's warning about wanting another wheel(s) is real, it's a disease with no known cure. But on the other hand, I had intended to sell my S18 when the big fast wheel (finally) arrived—but I didn't. S18 is actually a very nice wheel as long as you don't try to fool yourself into thinking maybe it's stronger and faster than it really is. It's not! It's intended for trails, not speedways or drag racing. The upper limit is 30 mph, and the limit is very real so if you are harboring a need for speed, you might keep saving and get a wheel that's more suitable.

It's too easy to find yourself standing on the sidelines wishing you had something to ride but never make the move because… well, there are lots of reasons not to do something… analysis paralysis, or waiting for next year's offerings because they'll be so much better, or holding off until you have more whatever (reviews, money, time, fame, strength, better hair…)

In my case, I wanted to do something—so even though I'd never seen one in real life I spent fifteen hundred dollars on a thing I couldn't return. I was fascinated by wheels, worried about falling and breaking something, concerned I wouldn't be able to learn, but decided I'd watch my speed, religiously wear the goofy costume, be stubborn about learning and go for it anyway… because it seemed like so much fun.

I haven't made a better decision in… 3 or 4 decades. It's been a costly one because of the disease, but such is life. As you grow old few things are sadder than knowing you found reasons to justify passing up something that really interested you.

If worst comes to worst and you don't like riding or it's totally impractical, you can always recoup some of your money and sell your wheel. (yes, I used that for some of my justification before pressing buy-now, and I still own and love my learner).

Edited May 6, 2023 by Tawpie

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, earthtwin said:

You gotta at least have some good reasons to get one, and it' doesn't sound like you have any.

Ignore the above. You really do not need good reasons to get one beyond just wanting one!

 

9 hours ago, ssup2406 said:

you think I should go ahead with my EUC purchase

There are two ways of approaching decision making in general: Analytical and emotional. First, analytical:

 How many first EUC purchasers have regretted their purchase and quit the hobby right away? Mid and large size EUCs with less than 500 miles on them are quite rare to be seen for sale. Also the number of riders have been growing with an accelerating rate since the beginning. So the chance of the purchase being a mistake is quite low. There are a lot of us who can vouch for what @Tawpie said, “best purchase in 3-4 decades”. Let that sink in.

 Then there’s the emotional method. I recommend watching this video I made a year ago:

A few things though. The S18 battery is small. The next in order would be the V11 with 50% more battery and only 2kg more weight, usually for around the same price.

 Talks about protective gear can steal any thread, but I suggest you leave a bit of cash for base level protection in the beginning. A busted wrist or a knee at the start is one of the rare few ways the hobby can die at the very beginning. (Ask my older brother.) It would also make all the nay sayers think they were right.

[redsnapper]

Too much analysis leads to paralysis! EUC gonna add insane fun to your life - you can start on a cheap little (v8) machine or on a cadillac (v13/sherman) - once u ride you will be hooked! Whatever you start on you can eventually resell then buy another and another and another etc. Life is short - anyone discouraging you from getting EUC just does not get it - I predict the detractors will change their tune once they see you in a state of EUCphoria! So you do you...

And if you are on a budget, buy a local used machine, get a cheap helmet and you are ready to FLY!!!! 

[The Brahan Seer]

13 hours ago, ssup2406 said:

I can ride a unicycle, not well, but with a lot of active work and attention

Absolutely get the S18!, if you can ride a unicycle you will find the EUC easier.

This is because the EUC already keeps you steady front to back so its only the side to side you need to work on.

Your friends and family probably don't understand and probably think its like a normal unicycle, its not.

Beware though as stated above this mode of transport is the most fun ever. You will likely become addicted.

It is the best experience I have ever had standing on two legs! Enjoy!

 

 

[mr_guns]

Buying an EUC was the best decision I have made on a purchase in a long time. I've had mine less than 2 months and I feel very comfortable going just about anywhere (I ride bike paths or trails, not in traffic, I have a motorcycle for that). I now go much farther than I ever thought I would on an EUC, so the range of the S18 looks good for your need (Hope I don't send you down another rabbit hole, but seriously look at the comment above about the V11).

I didn't tell my friends about my purchase until after I could ride it. They thought I was crazy, but now they all want to try mine. (Oh yeah, I'm probably three times your age too.)

[Paul D]

Wasting time that you can never get back is worse than spending money you barely have but can get more of. I love riding EUC so much that if were broke/homeless you’d see me panhandling with a sign that says “will work for a charge.”

[Esash]

17 hours ago, ssup2406 said:

Reading time: ~2 mins, thanks!
Okay, so I've been researching for about 5 months now, easily might've put in 90-100 hours, maybe more, settled on the S18 for suspension and lower weight, I've put in my fair share in evaluating the options so not budging on the model. Last week I told my friends about my plans, I was strongly discouraged to go ahead with the purchase, a few days ago my parents discouraged me as well. This could be a sunken cost fallacy thing, but after putting in so much time, because of their reactions I don't feel happy and confident about my upcoming purchase at all, hence seeking your feedback.

Some background, I don't have my car anymore, I've a BMX, that suffices for my needs, just getting groceries 5 mins away, I don't go anyplace else (for now). I believe getting an EUC will give me more freedom to impulsively go wherever I want (similar to a car), with none of the parking and potential theft issues that come with e-bikes.

I can ride a unicycle, not well, but with a lot of active work and attention, not as relaxed and natural as a bike; so my question is will riding an EUC will be, over time surely, as comfortable as riding a bike? I read and believe that it becomes natural, but does it then also become comfortable? Let's say for 25-30km round trips (I love going to Costco for instance, I take the bus with my backpack there currently). Is this the floating you folks talk about!?

The other question is that I'll be essentially spending all my savings on the EUC+kit, got boots already in fact, will write a review if/when the occasion comes. I'm a student FWIW so the flow of cash isn't the highest. I've decided to have a PEV though, the other option I was considering and now reconsidering is converting my BMX to electric with a front hub motor and a molicel pack; I've been a fan of Grin Tech for many years, would go with their products for sure.

Would love to have your inputs on the subject, if you think I should go ahead with my EUC purchase then some encouragement will be immensely appreciated.

Thank you all for reading and potentially responding, wishing you all a great time of day and happy riding!

Yeah it'll quickly become just as easy as riding a bike. You're making a great decision and your family/friends will see.

 

[Esash]

4 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Absolutely get the S18!, if you can ride a unicycle you will find the EUC easier.

This is because the EUC already keeps you steady front to back so its only the side to side you need to work on.

Your friends and family probably don't understand and probably think its like a normal unicycle, its not.

Beware though as stated above this mode of transport is the most fun ever. You will likely become addicted.

It is the best experience I have ever had standing on two legs! Enjoy!

 

 

Yeah, EUC is much easier than regular unicycle.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I recommend watching this video I made a year ago:

Great video, very well put together with great editing and some cool scenery. I'm sorry i hadn't seen it until now.

Get one you won't regret it if you take your time and enjoy it with the proper safety gear and precautions.

[rcgldr]

19 hours ago, ssup2406 said:

25-30km round trips

 

9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The S18 battery is small. The next in order would be the V11 with 50% more battery and only 2kg more weight, usually for around the same price.

S18 literally has 1/2 the battery of a 16X or 18XL, with 1/2 the current. An S18 with Molicel pack solves the current issue, with reduced range, but should be good enough for 25-30 km range at 24 to 33 kph (others here could confirm this). Molicel S18 would probably cost a bit more than V11, but be about 2 kg | 4.5 lbs lighter. I've read S18 shell isn't as robust as other EUCs, so it may end up with some cracks you can tape to repair if you bail while learning. S18 has normal sized trolley handle, so it can be used for your helmet (it will fit through the face opening). 

19 hours ago, ssup2406 said:

costco

Assuming you'll be using a backpack, I'm not sure how much you can carry on an EUC.

Edited May 6, 2023 by rcgldr

[ssup2406]

15 hours ago, mrelwood said:

A few things though. The S18 battery is small. The next in order would be the V11 with 50% more battery and only 2kg more weight, usually for around the same price.

9 hours ago, mr_guns said:

(Hope I don't send you down another rabbit hole, but seriously look at the comment above about the V11)

The V11 was my first choice, I had looked into it for many months, down to knowing the wiring issues people have, the expensive bearings, the tractor suspension etc. Then this commuting by train thing came up a few months ago, and here they have a 23 kilo weight limit on the trains, with a small unofficially tolerated margin; the S18 with the pedals removed will be 23.4 kilos; then plan to 3D print ksmack's shell with less infill, so aside from better protection, I can take the shell off if anyone complains and officially be below 23kilos! I appreciate the V11 a lot though, besides all the other benefits which y'all know already my opinion is that it looks so classically cool, in the survey that inmotion had released, they had a styling question, how would you want the upcoming small wheel to look like (they were expecting a comparison to a car or motorcycle) I entered V11 there!

[ssup2406]

7 hours ago, rcgldr said:

I've read S18 shell isn't as robust as other EUCs, so it may end up with some cracks you can tape to repair if you bail while learning. S18 has normal sized trolley handle, so it can be used for your helmet (it will fit through the face opening).

Yes, I am planning to printing Ksmack's 3D printed shell, was uncertain if I should do it right away or wait till I get comfortable going to 20-30kph (I can practice on grass before that, will that minimize the shell damages?) what would you recommend?

 

7 hours ago, rcgldr said:

S18 has normal sized trolley handle, so it can be used for your helmet (it will fit through the face opening). 

Ah that's super nice to know, I didn't know that before, just assumed that you could do this with most of the EUCs, are designs like on the Sherman too wide to fit a helmet? Or are some designs not tall enough? Thanks a lot for sharing this info though.

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, ssup2406 said:

print ksmack's shell with less infill

I printed Ksmack's shell at 40% and 60% (forgot to reduce the infill for some of the pieces!) and with both the front and back bumpers (15% infill, TPU), ShanesPadsV2, TR1 tire and Nylonove pedals my molicel-upgraded S18 weighs in at 59.1 lbs (26.8 kg). It's going to be tough to make 23 kilos. This is a 2020 vintage S18 though, I don't know if the new ones are lighter.

[rcgldr]

9 hours ago, rcgldr said:

S18 has normal sized trolley handle, so it can be used for your helmet (it will fit through the face opening). 

 

1 hour ago, ssup2406 said:

Ah that's super nice to know, I didn't know that before, just assumed that you could do this with most of the EUCs, are designs like on the Sherman too wide to fit a helmet? Or are some designs not tall enough? Thanks a lot for sharing this info though.

The 16X and 18XL trolley handle is too "wide" (front to back) for a helmet to fit over it. You could use the helmet strap around one leg of the trolley handle, but I don't know if that would be an issue.

Edited May 7, 2023 by rcgldr

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, ssup2406 said:

The V11 was my first choice, I had looked into it for many months, down to knowing the wiring issues people have, the expensive bearings, the tractor suspension etc.

You seem to have done your homework pretty well, but I want to comment on these. Each of the very few wiring issues I’ve seen on the V11 have been wires on early models that were partially torn due to improper routing before installing the mainboard cover. I haven’t seen the issue since maybe 2021.

The bearings cost 20/26€ (older/newer batch) a piece in a German webshop. I don’t see that as expensive. The bearings are also well shielded in later units, with no reason to believe that they would ever need to be replaced.

And while the V11 suspension is not as smooth for hard riding as on a well working S18, only one of the ten S18 units I’ve seen actually had a well working suspension. All others were nearly stuck from factory, making it much worse than the V11. There are several “S18 suspension overhaul” threads that show how the suspension issues can be fixed, and they’re all 20+ work hour jobs requiring special ordered parts. Simply wax the V11 suspension rails and it works pretty well.

 But your weight issue seems real, and while it can be real tough to actually lower the S18 weight, the V11 weight is still more at 27kg.

[ssup2406]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I printed Ksmack's shell at 40% and 60% (forgot to reduce the infill for some of the pieces!) and with both the front and back bumpers (15% infill, TPU), ShanesPadsV2, TR1 tire and Nylonove pedals my molicel-upgraded S18 weighs in at 59.1 lbs (26.8 kg). It's going to be tough to make 23 kilos. This is a 2020 vintage S18 though, I don't know if the new ones are lighter.

Thanks a ton for sharing the weight of your unit!! They switched to machined aluminium slider assemblies instead of cast steel in the newer ones so they're lighter, the ecodrift technoblog covers this in two articles, here's the disassembly article which shows the weight at 24.2 kilos
https://ecodrift-ru.translate.goog/2022/10/12/kingsong-s18-v2-910wh-razbiraem/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en

The folks at eevee's weighed it as well and this is the correct weight for the newer models. The upcoming batch at eevee's has me worried though, they have updated the official weight to 56lbs, which matches the 25kilos kingsong has put out on their website.

I'll ask you your feedback on the prints in the S18 discussion thread some day.