Inmotion V14 Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion

[Rawnei]

1 minute ago, Paul g said:

      Yeah, but you lose the possibility to change the factory suspension with standard one available on the market. Maybe you want the strongest suspension for big jumps, like Mike Leahy, he can do that. 

There is absolutely 0 point to change suspension if it's already good.

You guys are basing all your argumentation on leaperkim current suspension wheel not what is possible to do in a fork suspension type.

Btw fastace suspension has no problem jumping.

[Paul g]

 

      Oh my god   , some of you guys seem like can never be pleased, not even when the producer takes the best decision possible. 

 

7 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

There is absolutely 0 point to change suspension if it's already good.  

 

         And can you define “suspension” “it’s already good” please?  Maybe I weigh 130kg and you weigh 80kg. The suspension provided by InMotion might be perfectly “good” for you personally, but might very well be not “good” for me, because I weigh much more. So “good” is a very relative term. 

  

[bpong]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Here's another one, though: We buy what we buy. So dear manufacturers, you better listen to what people want (They actually try and do nowadays!) Not only do we live in the world, we are the world, so we can change it. (And then it's the others' turn to deal with it, hehe.)

so its you and techyiam that are conjuring up these short concise phrases !!!

[bpong]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

There is absolutely 0 point to change suspension if it's already good.

You guys are basing all your argumentation on leaperkim current suspension wheel not what is possible to do in a fork suspension type.

Btw fastace suspension has no problem jumping.

and neither does leahy with his now old S22 (which btw, is heavily maintained by leahy himself too...) despite the suspension design being criticized as being 'insufficient' by contributors to this forum.  i dont know what he is using now,  but if anyone could attest to equipment and high air, it would be leahy... 

as for comparing to leaperkim, there are those that are doing that but i think its abit about brand bias or dislike of leaperkim rather than a technical discussion of suspension.  there are numerous great articles posted elsewhere in this forum about suspension.  i dont own a small garage full of various eucs (yet, but if i did i would certainly be divorced and living on my own...) so i cant really say any thing good or bad about leaperkim or any other brand.  but i can say with what i have seen so far with the inmotion adventure wheel,  it looks good to me.  if the performance reviews are comparable with the Patton (which i originally was considering this past spring),  and if inmotion delivers on the other innovations Yan presented on youtube,  then the adventure offers more to me for my money,  than the Patton.

i personally dont care what any euc manufacturer has over another.  i dont care much for the banter between brand loyalists either.  i certainly do care about getting the most for my hard earned buck.

who knows whats going to be available next year ?  in 2 years ? in 5 years ?

Edited August 23, 2023 by bpong

[onkeldanuel]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

That makes no sense at all, wheel as in top of wheel is tall because motor needs space to move up and down, pedal height is up to manufacturer discretion.

Imagine the 90mm travel of the SS will be convertet to 130mm, this stanchions need to be huge...i mean you need to put the spring in it too, which has some noticable length on top of the "sliding part"

Or am i thinking wrong? 

Edited August 23, 2023 by onkeldanuel

[okvp]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

There is absolutely 0 point to change suspension if it's already good.

You guys are basing all your argumentation on leaperkim current suspension wheel not what is possible to do in a fork suspension type.

Btw fastace suspension has no problem jumping.

I haven't ever heard of a good Chinese suspension brand. Fastace, DNM, and EXA are producing cheapest and lowest 'branded' suspension products. There is no reputable MTB brand which is using their products and certainly not any motorcycle brand. They don't even offer rebuild kits to their products. There are teardown videos many of these shocks and they lack expensive to produce features like good shim stacks and rounded fluid channels. The design is usually somewhat copied from somewhere with a cheap way. Seals are usually made of cheap compound which wont last long, especially Chinese air shocks are usually junk because of seals and bad tolerances.

The idea of shock is to try to keep the tyre on the ground with a optimum force, damping system is the expensive key element. Chinese shocks perform well enough on normal riding but when e.g. hit on the big bumb or ridden hard they just cant keep up with the brand shocks.

Edited August 23, 2023 by okvp

[Rawnei]

I think sometimes the things I write is lost in translation or interpretation.

My point is people bring up various design concepts and points out limitations without anything to back that up, like limitations to fork suspension what you can do or can't do on there, theorycrafting based on imagination.

2 hours ago, Paul g said:

And can you define “suspension” “it’s already good” please?  Maybe I weigh 130kg and you weigh 80kg. The suspension provided by InMotion might be perfectly “good” for you personally, but might very well be not “good” for me, because I weigh much more. So “good” is a very relative term. 

If suspension feels good and can handle anything from flat road to heavy off-road and also jumping can we agree that is good suspension? If manufacturer release different options that works for different weighted rider there is no problem can we also agree on that? If those things are all available from stock suspension then there is no need to swap to a 3rd party shock and "suspension is already good".

1 hour ago, bpong said:

as for comparing to leaperkim, there are those that are doing that but i think its abit about brand bias or dislike of leaperkim rather than a technical discussion of suspension.  there are numerous great articles posted elsewhere in this forum about suspension.  i dont own a small garage full of various eucs (yet, but if i did i would certainly be divorced and living on my own...) so i cant really say any thing good or bad about leaperkim or any other brand.  but i can say with what i have seen so far with the inmotion adventure wheel,  it looks good to me.  if the performance reviews are comparable with the Patton (which i originally was considering this past spring),  and if inmotion delivers on the other innovations Yan presented on youtube,  then the adventure offers more to me for my money,  than the Patton.

It's a bit annoying honestly, people making stuff up "it can't do this it can't do that" without actually trying it themselves, similar argumentation happened with s22 before. I'm certainly no Shibby jumper but I know a local rider who is getting better and better at doing big jumps with his Sherman S (62lb variant) and the suspension handles it like a champ, real world example not some theorycrafting. I've done some smaller jumping we with my Patton and with some compression dampening it doesn't bottom out with my 105kg weight and it feels good to jump.

1 hour ago, onkeldanuel said:

Imagine the 90mm travel of the SS will be convertet to 130mm, this stanchions need to be huge...i mean you need to put the spring in it too, which has some noticable length on top of the "sliding part"

Or am i thinking wrong? 

I've no idea, I don't design suspension I leave that to suspension designers to solve, but regardless what system you use more travel will equal higher wheel since the travel is how long motor can move up and down.

27 minutes ago, okvp said:

I haven't ever heard of a good Chinese suspension brand. Fastace, DNM, and EXA are producing cheapest and lowest 'branded' suspension products. There is no reputable MTB brand which is using their products and certainly not any motorcycle brand. They don't even offer rebuild kits to their products. There are teardown videos many of these shocks and they lack expensive to produce features like good shims stacks and rounded fluid channels. The design is usually somewhat copied from somewhere with a cheap way. Seals are usually made of cheap compound which wont last long, especially Chinese air shocks are usually junk because of seals and bad tolerances.

The idea of shock is to try to keep the tyre on the ground with a optimum force, damping system is the expensive key element. Chinese shocks perform well enough on normal riding but when e.g. hit on the big pump or ridden hard they just cant keep up with the brand shocks.

But you're basing this on theory not practice, people already jumping both Sherman S and Patton without problems.

More expensive shock doesn't make people suddenly pro jumpers and if shock can handle it the really where is the problem?

In general I wonder how many people who bring up Mike Leahy when argumenting about what is good suspension even jump themselves, it's like this holy grail Yu GI-Oh trap card argument.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Rawnei

[bpong]

rawnei,

im not discussing any thing about suspension,  i just made a ref to leahy who jumps using a wheel that has known suspension flaws.  my main ambition is to get a good wheel.  not debating the suspension systems of different manufacturers nor will i get dragged into that scary black hole either.  just want to get a great wheel.

[Rawnei]

3 minutes ago, bpong said:

rawnei,

im not discussing any thing about suspension,  i just made a ref to leahy who jumps using a wheel that has known suspension flaws.  my main ambition is to get a good wheel.  not debating the suspension systems of different manufacturers nor will i get dragged into that scary black hole either.  just want to get a great wheel.

Don't we all? I'm just responding to responses.

I'm not arguing what is best or not, I'm glad there's progress being made, that benefits all of us, what I don't like is people (not you) making up arguments why something is bad based only on theory or imagination when reality says something else.

[bpong]

Just now, Rawnei said:

Don't we all? I'm just responding to responses.

I'm not arguing what is best or not, I'm glad there's progress being made, that benefits all of us, what I don't like is people (not you) making up arguments why something is bad based only on theory or imagination when reality says something else.

AGREED !!!

[Paul g]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

If suspension feels good and can handle anything from flat road to heavy off-road and also jumping can we agree that is good suspension? If manufacturer release different options that works for different weighted rider there is no problem can we also agree on that? If those things are all available from stock suspension then there is no need to swap to a 3rd party 

       A certain suspension might feel good for a person but might not feel good for an other, because feel good is a feeling, and is subjective. That is why in more mature sports like cycling and motorcycling there are suspension producers that come with different weight suspension which allows for personalisation so that each one can build their bike or bicycle the way they want. There are tons of options that go in the most minute detail so that one can customise the ride how they like. Is no point for me to start describing them here. If you go on a motorcycle forum, or a bicycle one, you would be amazed of the variety of bikes lengths, wheel diameters, suspension types, etc, etc.

      The product might come from factory with different weight variants, but those might not be what one wants or likes. Maybe the factory ones are not the best quality, maybe they have leaking problems, etc. You personally might have a very good experience with the Sherman S suspension so you might not understand why some people have negative things to say about it, but other people might not have the same good experience with it. So, let’s just agree that we see the things very different on this specific topic.

       If stanchions type of suspension can be just as good as the rear linkage one, possibly. But with Sherman S one I can’t just throw the factory one and search on the internet for a better replacement, just as I can do for a bike. So, I personally love the fact InMotion gives the user the possibility to use customised third party, best quality suspension. 

      I know that some say it’s a suspension system that it’s a bit heavier than the stanchions one, which is true, I absolutely agree that it ads weigh. So there are some advantages and there are some disadvantages as well. At the moment we do not have a mature industry around electric wheels suspension and so we do not have access to the same variety as in motorbikes or bicycles, but we have the possibility of using these industries’ wealth of options as a resource and adapt them for our needs.

     And I mostly like the Sherman S suspension but I like the V14 one even more    

[MadVlad]

Progressive springs combined with adjustable compression and rebound give you the best possible adjustment range, definitely a move in the right direction. If they put the "middle" of the adjustment range in the correct place, which it seems like they did with the spring at least, then only the lightest and the heaviest riders might have some problems tuning it to their needs. If the quality of the assembly is descent then it should be a very nice ride.

[Critzlez]

8 hours ago, onkeldanuel said:

I mean the LK Stanchions get friction when the wheel is tilted on any angle left right/ front back.. you can test while standing on the wheel tilt it left/right and then move the suspension up down

Its easy noticable and you wont have that at a good sliderdesign with rearshock type suspension and linkage...

So for offroad use and up/downhill i absolute clearly prefer that...for street cruising it doesnt matter , but there it also doesnt matter that the LK-Wheels are below 100mm travel both 

This happens to any slider mechanism, linkage suspension or not. Every suspension wheel with sliders will have this issue, and it isn't detrimental. The only thing that wears in a suspension I believe are just the seals, which are universally sized and don't need replacement much, and the oil.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Critzlez

[Rollin-on-1]

5 hours ago, Paul g said:

And I mostly like the Sherman S suspension but I like the V14 one even more  

Genuinely interested...have you ridden the V14?  Or is your comment about the design theory of the V14 suspension?

[Unventor]

12 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yep, it's a very antrophic principle/evolutionary logic-like statement of things being the way they are because they are the way they are, I mean what else would they be? More profound than one may think. I like!

Here's another one, though: We buy what we buy. So dear manufacturers, you better listen to what people want (They actually try and do nowadays!) Not only do we live in the world, we are the world, so we can change it. (And then it's the others' turn to deal with it, hehe.)

Anyways, the complaints (if someone is even complaining) are on a quite high level with EUCs nowadays, which is good. Happy days. The Adventure (will they call it V14 or is that just something informal here?) surely will be a sweet sweet wheel, I don't think you will regret jumping in right away *knock on wood so some crazy initial issue doesn't happen*.

That is why I don't have or plan to get any GW spin off brands. I chose to put my vote on Inmotion. Some will call it being a fan boy. Yet I view more putting my money where I see best product and development than I hope to see my next wheel too from. It is not like Inmotion are perfect. But for the time being they match my needs and wishes the best. 

However that is also why I didn't buy a V13. To heavy and unnecessary high top speed for me. I am keeping an eye on this Adventure wheel though.

But I do hope we see more details soon. It seems release was to be 1st September. So in a week or so. But the real inportant stuff comes from teardown and multi rides review. So that is likely to be longer down the line I guess. 

[onkeldanuel]

10 hours ago, Critzlez said:

This happens to any slider mechanism

I only can speak for the S22 with ningning sliders and aligned everything for perfect amount of play/tightness and then there was zero friction at any angle i could test but perhaps you are right in common...

Only that on the forktype i think its noticably more friction. Maybe its becouse of the flex in the LK-Wheels too mostly (more on Sherman S)

The S22 has flex too (Sliders to body/channels) but the bearingrollers compensated for it and guaranted smoothness 

Edited August 24, 2023 by onkeldanuel

[techyiam]

It looks like the Adventure is back to using a large hollow bore motor. That sucker is going to be strong. Here's hoping that the bearings will be durable and sufficiently waterproof.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by techyiam

[onkeldanuel]

24 minutes ago, techyiam said:

It looks like the Adventure is back to using a large hollow bore motor. That sucker is going to be strong. Here's hoping that the bearings will be durable and sufficiently waterproof.

 

Yeah finally large hole again , great for torque but you are right, hope they learned how to design a proper bearing cover 

Edited August 24, 2023 by onkeldanuel

[InfiniteWheelie]

27 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said:

Yeah finally large hole again , great for torque but you are right, hope they learned how to design a proper bearing cover 

How is a large axle great for torque, or did I misunderstand?

Edited August 24, 2023 by InfiniteWheelie

[techyiam]

45 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said:

Yeah finally large hole again , great for torque 

That's a good point. The Adventure is advertised as having class-leading amounts of torque. And there have been reports of axle bolts loosening or shearing off. Perhaps, having the mounting bolts located at a larger diameter will help reduce the cyclic shearing stresses that the bolts are subjected to during hard acceleration, steep climb, and hard braking.

Edited August 24, 2023 by techyiam

[Rawnei]

On 8/24/2023 at 7:28 AM, onkeldanuel said:

Only that on the forktype i think its noticably more friction. Maybe its becouse of the flex in the LK-Wheels too mostly (more on Sherman S)

It's because of the cheap Chinese oil seals which gives varied results from unit to unit, I switched to SKF and stiction was gone. Quality oil seal is important piece in such a system.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Rawnei
Spellcheck

[Eucner]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Perhaps, having the mounting bolts located at a larger diameter will help reduce the cyclic shearing stresses that the bolts are subjected to during hard acceleration, steep climb, and hard braking.

That looks like too large bearing. It will be expensive from quality manufacturer, so we are going to see a lower quality one chosen. Large diameter will also increase rolling resistance and shorten mileage. Bolt joints bear load with axial tension and friction, not by shearing. There are solutions to loose bolts, but larger diameter bearing is not one of them.

[techyiam]

10 minutes ago, Eucner said:

Bolt joints bear load with axial tension and friction, not by shearing.

That would be a good engineering practice.

Here is a counter example: Veteran Patton. 

[techyiam]

14 minutes ago, Eucner said:

There are solutions to loose bolts, but larger diameter bearing is not one of them.

No one spoke of having larger diameter bearings being one of the solution to loose bolts.

This was how the chat went

2 hours ago, onkeldanuel said:

Yeah finally large hole again , great for torque but you are right, hope they learned how to design a proper bearing cover 

 

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

That's a good point. The Adventure is advertised as having class-leading amounts of torque. And there have been reports of axle bolts loosening or shearing off. Perhaps, having the mounting bolts located at a larger diameter will help reduce the cyclic shearing stresses that the bolts are subjected to during hard acceleration, steep climb, and hard braking.

It depends on the design. It can have secondary benefits. 

We have not seen the actual design. So we can't be certain.

 

[Eucner]

7 minutes ago, techyiam said:

That would be a good engineering practice.

It's sad to see novice mistakes repeated.

7 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Here is a counter example: Veteran Patton. 

The reason for sheared bolts is loose bolts, not a small diameter.

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

No one spoke of having larger diameter bearings being one of the solution to loose bolts.

You wrote about cyclic shearing stresses to bolts. It only happens when bolts are loose. Your suggestion of larger diameter will help with the symptoms, but does not remove the cause.