DO YOU NEED A FASTER EUC ?

[bpong]

dont misunderstand the title of this topic;  im not trying to dissuade any one from purchasing a new euc or a faster euc.

as of this year 2023, im currently shopping for another euc.  the current wheel of interest is the veteran patton.  from my various replies to various postings,  im getting the impression that readers are surprised that i am riding an old wheel (begode tesla V2) in vehicle traffic occasionally.  riding with traffic is something i take very seriously.  i take into consideration the limits of my wheel, and the limits of my riding skills.  i dont ride in traffic ALL THE TIME.  i ride when the traffic is moving slowly enough that its within the speed limitations of my V2.

i have seen euc riders zip past me quickly, on their high performance eucs.  for the most part,  its fine.  but i have seen some of these riders hit a small bump or small road indentation and they wobble and lose control temporarily, and recover and move on.  it makes me wonder whether or not i really really need that bump up on speed and performance.  given that i can commute in traffic when it suits my machines limitations and my limitations,  perhaps i dont need to pick up that nice shiny new modern euc - not looking for encouragement to spend my money.  i can get this thing no problem.  its just that i dont know whether or not having the extra performance will make my riding experience any more enjoyable than it is currently.

this is my typical riding session:  gear up, connect my audio speakers to my mp3 player and cue up the music.  then i begin riding with my music playing during the ride.  its all very slow (30-40kph) and controllable and i get to enjoy bopping along with the music.  occasionally i get the odd call from work and from my wife and i take the calls via my helmets intercom.  still moving of course and minding the bike lane or street ahead of me.  to me, im not blazing along at 60-70kph,  and my attention is not singularly focused on staying in one piece as i fly along the bike lane or street.

i would like to have the ability to go fast, once in awhile when the lane or road is clear, and i can see quite far into the distance ahead of me.  but that motivation only happens once in a while, and its not something i NEED to do on a regular basis.

what inspires me to pick up a new machine is for the improvements in build quality and design,  in the new revisions to firmware on the controller board,  the added suspension (my knees are quite old...) and the fact that i have an euc that is current and relevant.  the fact that the particular model can go abit faster and abit farther,  thats icing on the cake.   just because it can go faster and farther,  does not mean i will therefore go faster and farther.  i just want to go somewhere, and go smartly,  not recklessly.  whatever my new euc will be,  its going to be some beautiful modern current machine.  no matter how fast or slow its capable of going...

so what do you think, ... do you need to just go as fast as you possibly can go ?  or do you just enjoy the ride and damn the testosterone inflated marketing hype and (sometimes) broken promises ?!?!?!

 

yeah,  lets see randy savage high tailing it down some city street on an ex30...ohhhh yeeeaaaahhhh.....

[UniVehje]

I almost never ride faster than 40 km/h. Mostly around 30-35. I have a wheel that can be safely ridden way faster but I don’t have any desire to. I have no hurry and mostly ride bike lanes or countryside roads. Just enjoying the feeling and relaxing. 
 

Most riders I know here are the same. It seems like the need for speed is for Americans who ride in traffic or do group rides with a lot of testosterone in the air. Bragging rights are important for some. I’m much more interested in ride comfort, cornering, reliability and build quality. 

[Cerbera]

To my surprise at the time I discovered that I do not need more speed than my current wheel provides, and even that is a bit OTT for me most of the time ! I thought I'd feel a need to go faster, and maybe I will later, but as it turns out my top comfortable limit is only around the 40 kph mark, with only occasional leaps above that into the 50s and 60s. In a lot of ways it's dictated at least partially by what kind of roads and pathways you regularly use - no cycle-way round here is conducive to much higher speeds than those low 40's. But for all those beautiful wide open deserted roads in the US ? Hell yeah - that's where the extra speed can shine, where it can be sustained for ages, and isn't constantly interrupted by junctions and other unhelpful infrastructure... BUT wind force really is a thing, and as I keep feeling the need to point out, we really can't ever go much faster than current speeds and still stay on our wheels through the drag at 70+. If we want to go faster than that we need plastic windshields to hide behind, and then we might as well get a motorbike !

 

[Whalesmash]

Everyone has different things they are looking for in a wheel and it's hardly anyone else's job to police what that goal should be. As long as whatever individual out there isn't putting others at risk with their chosen behavior and they are willing to accept the risks they are putting themselves at, I say have fun and go for it.

For me, no, I don't need to go any faster than what I get out of my current wheels. Besides, the range tradeoff for going much faster than what current wheels are able to achieve just isn't worth it to me. Now as far as this marketing hype and what not, I fully encourage all companies to market, hype, develop, one-up-each-other as much as possible. Competition will cause improvements (hopefully) and gives us the end users the luxury of choice.

[Poker]

Sometimes I do need a faster euc, most of the time I don't. What I really need is a wheel that wont throttle down to 24 Km/h after riding for one and a half hour.

I'm pretty happy with my V11 the reason I'm looking at getting a newer model (thinking Patton like you) is the range and the sustained "fun speed". I was thinking of a Sherman S but from the reviews I've seen of the Patton demo models I think it would fit my need and the fact that its significantly cheaper than the SS is huge!

For the rare times that the Patton range would not be enough for me I was thinking of buying a fast charger and a connector for the AC chargers for electric cars, they are practically everywhere here in Norway, just take a little break, rest my feet and get some food while its charging. then get back to the fun times.

[bpong]

56 minutes ago, Poker said:

Sometimes I do need a faster euc, most of the time I don't. What I really need is a wheel that wont throttle down to 24 Km/h after riding for one and a half hour.

holy crap !!! you can ride for 1.5 hrs !?!?!?!  im lucky if i can get 1 hr ...

ride on for 2023 !!!

[Poker]

Thanks, yeah the long sessions I have are when I'm doing the majority of the driving on dirt / gravel roads where I can only go fast on a few straights.

Good luck deciding on a new euc! It could be the difference between a great summer and a epic summer 

[Hellkitten]

@bpong Honestly only you can answer your question. To a large degree eucs fall into the wants vs needs. I’ve ridden suspension and non suspension wheels and I think having a suspension wheel on Toronto roads is a safety feature. Come out to one of the sunset cruises, make some friends with different wheels or try out a high performance wheel at https://rideone.ca/ or https://www.smartwheel.ca/ and see what you think. I ride in traffic, bike lanes, trails, paths on a V11 and am getting a Sherman S soon. It comes down to usage and what kind of rides you do. If you end up doing group rides you’ll undoubtedly be influenced by other riders (I have and I’m a much better rider from it) if you’ll only ride solo and are happy with your setup then stick with what you know. I’d bet though, if you try suspension, pads and a high performance wheel you’ll won’t go back………. 💸💸

Edited April 12, 2023 by Hellkitten

[bpong]

25 minutes ago, Hellkitten said:

...  I’d bet though, if you try suspension, pads and a high performance wheel you’ll won’t go back………. 💸💸

yeah, you are probably right.  its just evolution...one cant go backwards unless on purpose...take care !!!

[Clem604]

To answer the question, yes I needed an EUC that was slightly faster than my V11 with way more range and the Sherman S was that. I still ride very similar speeds to my V11 everywhere I go but I just needed that extra 5-10km/h to keep up with traffic safely for those infrequent times I HAVE to be on a main road.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Clem604 said:

To answer the question, yes I needed an EUC that was slightly faster than my V11 with way more range and the Sherman S was that. I still ride very similar speeds to my V11 everywhere I go but I just needed that extra 5-10km/h to keep up with traffic safely for those infrequent times I HAVE to be on a main road.

I concur. 

Now that I know your use case better, ie. range is very important to you; your pick of the Sherman-S is the right one. High speeds and constant hard acceleration really isn't your thing. And you would appreciate low maintenance and no breakdowns. Butter smooth suspension goes well with your affinity for seated riding, so I don't see a better alternative at the moment. 

[techyiam]

8 hours ago, bpong said:

i have seen euc riders zip past me quickly, on their high performance eucs.  for the most part,  its fine.  but i have seen some of these riders hit a small bump or small road indentation and they wobble and lose control temporarily, and recover and move on. 

My T3 twists some when going over rough patches at higher speeds; so does my V12, just less so. But they still head straight, and I don't feel I had or was losing control. If you don't want that, I know my 100 lbs. 22" Abrams doesn't that.

8 hours ago, bpong said:

i can get this thing no problem.  its just that i dont know whether or not having the extra performance will make my riding experience any more enjoyable than it is currently.

Doesn't sound like you are one of the typical riders on this forum. You have the budget, but you are not certain that you need to upgrade. For me, as soon as I bought home a new wheel, I am already looking for my next wheel. 

What are the things that you don't enjoy currently while riding your T2?

As for me, it always has been about bumps. And the second thing is braking. Then stability. However, now that I am riding an Abrams, my only complaint is that I need a softer ride over bumps, and 3600 Wh range. And as a bonus, a safe 90 km/h top speed would be nice too.

I can tell you that after I got comfortable riding my V12, I enjoy riding my V12 a whole lot more than my T3. There just wasn't anything I prefer more on my T3 over my V12. I don't need to carry my wheels. Even when riding below 30 km/h, the V12 rode so much nicer to me.

8 hours ago, bpong said:

its all very slow (30-40kph) and controllable and i get to enjoy bopping along with the music. 

If you are happy with your current ride, why would you consider upgrading?

8 hours ago, bpong said:

i would like to have the ability to go fast, once in awhile when the lane or road is clear, and i can see quite far into the distance ahead of me.  but that motivation only happens once in a while, and its not something i NEED to do on a regular basis.

When you say fast, is it 80 km/h fast, or is it 50, 60 km/h fast?

Not sure why you would need to get a 90 lbs. Patton for your use case. You haven't spoken the need for suspension, range, nor stability yet. 

8 hours ago, bpong said:

what inspires me to pick up a new machine is for the improvements in build quality and design,  in the new revisions to firmware on the controller board,  the added suspension (my knees are quite old...) and the fact that i have an euc that is current and relevant.  the fact that the particular model can go abit faster and abit farther,  thats icing on the cake.   just because it can go faster and farther,  does not mean i will therefore go faster and farther.  i just want to go somewhere, and go smartly,  not recklessly.  whatever my new euc will be,  its going to be some beautiful modern current machine.  no matter how fast or slow its capable of going...

OK. So you do want suspension. But that's really about it. I don't think you even need a 70 lbs. S19.

If you only crusing between 30 km/h and 40 km/h, I think even the V12 HT would do, even if it is a non-suspension wheel. Assuming you are not going to ride off curbs, or do drops and stairs, you can ride at a lower tire pressure, and the ride wouldn't be that harsh. But of course suspension will be better though.

Depending on your definition of fast, even the S18 V2 could fit the bill for your use case.

I would look for good build quality and design in my next wheel. I would not buy a random wheel just because of the build quality and design.

Having said that, I believe Inmotion has the best industrial designed wheels. I see in my V12 that they care about how the parts go together, as much as the quality of the parts. Leaper Kim"s Abrams use good quality parts, but how it is put together is not their strong suit. Even so, the percieved quality of the Abrams is high. But servicing can be a pain.

8 hours ago, bpong said:

so what do you think, ... do you need to just go as fast as you possibly can go ?  or do you just enjoy the ride and damn the testosterone inflated marketing hype and (sometimes) broken promises ?!?!?!

It sounds like you are already a happy camper. Suspension wheels will mature more in the next years. Your demand on electric wheels seems modest. If I were you, I would put off buying now. I don't believe the Patton is the right wheel for you. Since you are in T.O. why don't you try out the various suspension wheels and see for yourself. I have a suspicion that you may like the S18. And Inmotion will be releasing new smaller wheels too.

It sounds like you have been riding for a while. Why not let yourself naturally guide you as to which way to go. Try the different wheels at a shop. That may give you hints.

Edited April 13, 2023 by techyiam

[bpong]

52 minutes ago, techyiam said:

It sounds like you have been riding for a while. Why not let yourself naturally guide you as to which way to go. Try the different wheels at a shop. That may give you hints.

this all started the more i read the various postings on all the technical info on various current wheels and riding opinions etc,... i really had to evaluate whether or not getting a current state euc would make my riding any better than it already is.  granted,  my old V2 starts to get abit wobbly above 40-ish kph but usually i re-adjust my stance and the wobbles dissipate.  but my knees are giving me abit of pain once in awhile, and im sure a suspended wheel would give my knees a much needed break (no pun intended).

how much faster am i willing to go ? dont know that but i have given it some thought.  perhaps up to 60kph would suffice;  i cant see myself riding up to 90kph, it just seems to be nonsense.  but then again, never say never regarding speed... im crusing at 40 and i wouldnt mind going abit faster... what do i dislike about my old V2 ?  speed limited to 45kph (safe upper limit),  speed wobbles above 40kph, useless headlight, rickety trolley handle.  other than that,  its still a good wheel for my commuting and recreational riding.  but i must admit that it does get abit dramatic once cruising above 40kph... my attention level seems to amp up once i start hitting that speed.. range is rather limited too and it could use abit more.

yes, i am happy with my V2 given its current limitations.  i would definitely keep the V2 and dispose of the V8 to keep my euc stock to 2 wheels (including a new euc...). cant argue with V2 45lb carry weight...

i will check out an euc retailer close to my workplace, out in the docks area.  they have demos of various manufacturers, and i will check each and every one out for the hell of it.  hell, i think i will even check out the ex30 and V13 just to be an ass about it...im sure that will give me a chuckle or two...given their size and my size... its gonna look odd given that the height of the V13 is just alittle shorter than half my height (V13 is 30 inches high i think...).  at my current age, i can see that i have perhaps 5 more years left before i get to that point where balancing on an euc might be abit more difficult.  so buying something now would probably be my last euc.

thanx techyiam for your detailed response, questions, and great suggestions - much appreciated ! ... stay alert while riding on the streets !!!

[techyiam]

38 minutes ago, bpong said:

i cant see myself riding up to 90kph, it just seems to be nonsense.  but then again, never say never regarding speed...

You would know your use-case best. For myself, I don't know if I will ever go 90 km/h. However, should an opportunity arise for going at higher speeds, it can be quite easy to climb pass 70 km/h and be heading towards 80 km/h. But, at these speeds, it is best to minimize the risks of cutouts. Sometimes, you may need to make an emergency stop at those speeds, when just your luck, you happened to be going over a bumpy section too. And hence, more headroom is desirable.

Going fast on an electric wheel is not like going fast in a car or on a motorcycle. It is not like you just twist the throttle more to get to your desired speed. It doesn't work that way. It takes knowhow and skill. There are many ways to a cutout at top speeds.

Edited April 13, 2023 by techyiam

[Stevebee]

I’ve only recently been bitten by the EUC bug and bought a V11 as my first EUC. Suspension, well built, great front and rear light, smooth ride and a max speed of 55km/hr, although only when battery nearer 100% as it drops off once battery depletes. I haven’t reached anywhere near its maximum, highest was 35 km/hr.
Despite this I bought a new Sherman S. Great wheel, lovely ride and a top speed of c 80 km/hr. It’s much heavier to manoeuvre at low speed and with the trolley in shops and free mounting is more difficult as well but the ride is sublime. Highest is still around 35km/hr so the rider is the limiting factor. I ride mainly bike paths or small roads in London so it’s poor surface, stop and start.

Not regretting the Sherman S as it is still the one I would upgrade to again but I think I still had a long way to go before I needed to upgrade from a performance point of view. Thinking of switching back for a while to the V11 as I want to learn pendulum/backwards riding for stop lights and it’s much more nimble to learn that that the Sherman S. To think when I got the V11 6 months ago I thought it was really heavy!

[Tawpie]

I don't need a faster wheel! I had an OG Sherman but almost instantly figured out it wanted to go faster than I like to ride (it begged, pleaded, got all whiny about it). So I sold it.

Why?

Because while I do like to tell myself I have self control, the fact is that I don't always exercise it. I just knew I'd have to take the Sherm to near its top speed and that would be the time when something unfortunate happened and my riding days would be over. I'm old and allergic to rehab, so for me it's better to just drive around slowly.

And yes, just between us the oompaloompa has been to 58 kph with me on it (yeah, yeah, that's still turtle slow by today's standard—but my preferred cruising speed is 40 kph so nearing 60 is blisteringly fast). I did it because I was in a 60 kph zone with cars and wanted to be ready to get in the left turn lane without waiting for the commute-hour line of cars to pass me. Probably saved me a whole minute, maybe 2 at the most… in an 80+ minute commute. Like I said, I don't always make the wise choice.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Tawpie

[Aztek]

I ride a powerful and fast wheel with 20-45 kph and never in the traffic.

Because it is good to never be able to overpower it and have the torque to climb any hill and jump any curb.

The only thing I hate is the weight of it cause it hurts my knee.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Aztek

[Phonoman]

I just wish my Nikola+ was rated 10kmh more than it is now (65kmh).

My average speed is usually a round 31kmh, but I love to (and usually also) ride 40-60kmh in-between there. Was doing a lot more of that while I wasn't booted off the street yet by a single hater cop.

Some days there's just something magical about hitting that 50-60kmh speed - my brain clicks and I fall in a total euphoria, feel like dancing as I fly around the city, playing with the air as it flows through my fingers, sometimes almost getting goosebumps. 

Highest I've seen in the app is 69kmh (probably tailwind + downhill or something). But since road speed is 60kmh, then in reality I don't need much more than that (wouldn't mind if wheels could be software locked to just cap at X kmh :D), just would love the safety margin of something like "up to 75" (generally for bumps, lower battery). 

I would love the 2700Wh version for more range(for occasional longer trips)/safety(more juice for sustained speed), but I love when my wheel is somewhat light, nimble, fun, easier to control than the 40kg+ beefcakes. Also, I rode few days at nonstop 50-60 on the street one week and that constant speeding actually got boring to me (perhaps because it's a small city). 

 

Personally, I'm looking forward an upgrade, but will wait until a ~30kg wheel comes out that has suspension, solid IP rating and decent quality.

Do I NEED an upgrade? Probably not. Do I WANT an upgrade for comfort + peace of mind? YES. Is there a good product out there for all of my needs? NO. So I wait.

However, in your case - a big selling.. or should I say buying* point sounds to be the knee issues and suspension resolving helping with that. And since you're living in a place where EUC's are somewhat popular - you would probably be in a better position to sell them easier, too and take only a small loss in case you don't like the wheel after all. But yeah, if you can test some wheels for free - even better.  

[Bustapalapno]

I've found my happy place with a per-ride top speed of 38mph. Sometimes I open up and hit 45, or even 48 if I want to absolutely push it, but it isn't any more enjoyable for me. What I really love is hitting twisty, mountainous roads and being able to hold a solid 30mph for the whole route. On my Sherman-S I can do the whole ride as fast as I want, and never hit beeps.

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Bustapalapno

[BKW]

The only reason I'd want a faster EUC is for safety purposes due to having safe margins before a cutout. Beyond that, I have little desire to go much faster than 40mph where I go. I rarely hit 40mph and usually find tops speeds mid-30s per ride.

Edited April 18, 2023 by BKW

[slippyfeet]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:04 PM, bpong said:

holy crap !!! you can ride for 1.5 hrs !?!?!?!  im lucky if i can get 1 hr ...

ride on for 2023 !!!

I do 2.5-3hrs in one go on my 18XL... but that's early morning leisure rides on the few hours I get off a week (I work 7 days/week by choice). 
As for the OP, that's what I contemplate all the time as I window shop wheels. My comfort zone is in the mid-high 30kphs  but would prefer having the capability to briefly accelerate to 60-70kmh to get out of traffic when needed. Then there's the safety gear issue, I would need to match that higher speed with better PPE than what I currently own in order to keep my confidence in check.

However what I ultimately found when I owned a V12HT for 3 weeks was that with a naturally larger/faster machine, I'm paying more attention to the wheel than I am enjoying the scenery. Covering my normal routes faster actually made it less enjoyable. Until I have a viable reason to do serious work/town-to-town commutes that would require those 50kph+ cruise speeds to flow with other vehicles, I'm perfectly fine with my "old tech."

My current arsenal I built around my 5A charger I invested in with my 1st wheel, the T3.  I can continuously swap machines off and onto that 1 charger and ride throughout the entire day.

[KiwiMark]

I like my Sherman S for the suspension which I think makes it safer than non-suspension wheels when riding over bumps (plenty of those on the roads and paths here). It can go over 85kph (wheel reported) apparently, but I've never been over 75kph and don't really care about finding the absolute limits. Mostly I ride under 65kph and often I'm on shared paths and ride much slower around pedestrians & cyclists. I don't often ride on roads with a speed limit above 50kph, so there really isn't any need to go super fast. I do like that my wheel has the ability to handle faster speeds than what I ride, knowing that there is a safety margin in there is comforting.

The main things to think about before buying a Sherman S would be whether you are OK with the weight & pedal height. I haven't found either to be a problem and I can comfortably ride up to 3hrs without issue. But of course not everyone is the same, so it is something to think about before spending the money to buy one.

[Aztek]

1 hour ago, KiwiMark said:

whether you are OK with the weight & pedal height

A point I missed with the weight is indeed long rides - although I can ride for 3-2 hours in the city, it is exhausting in the end. I'm not sure what part of it is due to the weight of the wheel (mine is 40 kg). Riding EUC is a strain for the whole body, depending of your riding style (I tend to curve, change directions, climb and jump a lot).

 

[mrelwood]

 

On 4/12/2023 at 8:55 PM, bpong said:

i dont know whether or not having the extra performance will make my riding experience any more enjoyable than it is currently.

The performance itself probably won’t. But speed and power are only two lines in the spec sheet, there is so much more that goes into an EUC. I don’t need the motor’s temperature handling to be all that good either, but I’m not letting it prevent me from buying a new wheel.

On 4/12/2023 at 8:55 PM, bpong said:

what inspires me to pick up a new machine is for the improvements in build quality and design,  in the new revisions to firmware on the controller board,  the added suspension (my knees are quite old...) and the fact that i have an euc that is current and relevant.

There you go, several reasons why you‘d need a new wheel! Though I don’t personally understand what difference does it make to have a wheel that’s “current and relevant”. Those aspects don’t affect the ride, and any new model will no longer be new in six months anyway. The ride remains the same though.

 Improvements in build quality and design are not a given though. You need to be careful with which wheel you choose. Some of them are far less reliable than your Tesla.

On 4/12/2023 at 8:55 PM, bpong said:

 just because it can go faster and farther,  does not mean i will therefore go faster and farther.

Exactly! Just like I wouldn’t drive faster on a faster car either.

 I’ve been wanting to buy a new wheel as well for over a year already. They just haven’t made my next wheel yet. I don’t need more speed, and I already have a suspension, but there are so many other factors that go into a wheel. Inmotion is still the only one who knows how to make a headlight and adjustable ride mode settings, so I’m stuck waiting for my new wheel from them.

 

On 4/12/2023 at 11:04 PM, bpong said:

holy crap !!! you can ride for 1.5 hrs !?!?!?!  im lucky if i can get 1 hr 

I can ride my V11 for several hours on one charge, despite weighing 105kg. You know that the way you ride determines how long the battery lasts, right? 

[bpong]

mrelwood;

many thanx for your detailed reply.  and yes,  come to think of it, about the way i ride, perhaps it indicates that im due for an euc that is abit faster, and has more range.  i tend to always underestimate how fast i ride. 

take care and have a great 2023 riding season too !

bpong