Is anyone getting the KS S19?

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

We're all different, I love playing music and annoying others with my music. 😂

For that you can get a "better" small form factor music box and simply put it somewhere.. Be on person or on wheel.

[Drunkard]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:04 PM, techyiam said:

The Commander Mini may be the most fierce competitor. It has a great 134.4 V motor drive system, hydraulic suspension, and 2400 Wh of 50E cells, but priced lower. 

When you put it side by side it's crazy.. 

 

I can forgive a little bit of a price premium because S19 suppose to be a 'complete product'. No need to buy expensive pads, no need to change the suspension. But there needs to be less of this wheel price inflation.. 

 

S18 is a decent wheel but it's wildly overpriced for it's specs and the price never went down as the new wheels came out.. Sadly new wheels are just taking a step up. Price was the only reason why I never picked up S18 for my lady. 

Pricing should be:

S18 - 1800 euro 

S19 - 2200 euro

S22 - 2700 euro

 

 

 

[Rawnei]

46 minutes ago, Funky said:

For that you can get a "better" small form factor music box and simply put it somewhere.. Be on person or on wheel.

I have a Bose Soundlink Flex strapped to the front of my backpack.. 😁

[Andy.Lin]

1 hour ago, Drunkard said:

When you put it side by side it's crazy.. 

 

I can forgive a little bit of a price premium because S19 suppose to be a 'complete product'. No need to buy expensive pads, no need to change the suspension. But there needs to be less of this wheel price inflation.. 

 

S18 is a decent wheel but it's wildly overpriced for it's specs and the price never went down as the new wheels came out.. Sadly new wheels are just taking a step up. Price was the only reason why I never picked up S18 for my lady. 

Pricing should be:

S18 - 1800 euro 

S19 - 2200 euro

S22 - 2700 euro

 

 

 

Being these price,there's no profit for distributors.

The tariffs and sales tax are high also.

[Ronin Ryder]

On 7/7/2023 at 9:22 PM, Kingsong Customer Support said:

thanks for your comment. the s19 is being sold now.

how much price do you think you will buy ?

2200$ - Max acceptable price to target new riders.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Ronin Ryder

[Funky]

4 hours ago, Andy.Lin said:

Being these price,there's no profit for distributors.

The tariffs and sales tax are high also.

It's their problem... Not ours's. Stop making shit products, then we can talk about higher prices. 

Doesn't help that they add all that useless crap all around wheel, to make it more expensive. Sure some will buy the S19 for 2800$ or even 3000$. But if they have a look around, they could get something better for almost the same price. Most "normal" people aren't buying new EUC's every year, maybe once per 5 years. So they will get something that is actually good. Be 3000$ or 5000$ it doesn't matter. Simply because when they buy new one. They won't be upgrading to anything new anytime soon.

Same thing as buying car, or even regular old fashion bike.. Do you change them every year? By the time when you're gonna get something new, you will have plenty money already saved up.

 

I personally look at the device first. And only then at price. If first one don't satisfy my. I don't even look at the second part. Why? Because i already don't like something. Be 1000$ or 2000$. It won't change the thing - that i don't like.

Simple logic - good things sell/cost more. Crap can rot in shelves, till they lower prices. And get sold by lost. And whos problem again is that? Of course the company who made that product. Anyone who has some brain can look up other EUC manufacturers prices and performance. And make appropriate price point.

Hurp-Derp i will add music boxes, dumb pads, 1001 Led lights, because i like to look like pride parade while riding my euc. And now it cost 2800$.  No-one made them add all that shit.

Bare bone S19 for 2000$ would been great. The rider can add their own better pads, better pedals, so on..

Edited July 10, 2023 by Funky

[onewheelkoregro]

41 minutes ago, Funky said:

It's their problem... Not ours's. Stop making shit products, then we can talk about higher prices. 

Doesn't help that they add all that useless crap all around wheel, to make it more expensive. Sure some will buy the S19 for 2800$ or even 3000$. But if they have a look around, they could get something better for almost the same price. Most "normal" people aren't buying new EUC's every year, maybe once per 5 years. So they will get something that is actually good. Be 3000$ or 5000$ it doesn't matter. Simply because when they buy new one. They won't be upgrading to anything new anytime soon.

Same thing as buying car, or even regular old fashion bike.. Do you change them every year? By the time when you're gonna get something new, you will have plenty money already saved up.

 

I personally look at the device first. And only then at price. If first one don't satisfy my. I don't even look at the second part. Why? Because i already don't like something. Be 1000$ or 2000$. It won't change the thing - that i don't like.

Simple logic - good things sell/cost more. Crap can rot in shelves, till they lower prices. And get sold by lost. And whos problem again is that? Of course the company who made that product. Anyone who has some brain can look up other EUC manufacturers prices and performance. And make appropriate price point.

Hurp-Derp i will add music boxes, dumb pads, 1001 Led lights, because i like to look like pride parade while riding my euc. And now it cost 2800$.  No-one made them add all that shit.

Bare bone S19 for 2000$ would been great. The rider can add their own better pads, better pedals, so on..

I agree with you Funky! People are going to buy whatever they want regardless of cost, having said that there will be some people who will buy the s19. But I certainly will not be one of them and especially with how they botched up the s20/s22 launch left a bad taste in my mouth as well. And TBH if I was looking to upgrade the commander mini not only out specs the s19 but it is cheaper as well!

[Funky]

1 minute ago, onewheelkoregro said:

I agree with you Funky! People are going to buy whatever they want regardless of cost, having said that there will be some people who will buy the s19. But I certainly will not be one of them and especially with how they botched up the s20/s22 launch left a bad taste in my mouth as well. And TBH if I was looking to upgrade the commander mini not only out specs the s19 but it is cheaper as well!

Do 32kg vs 40kg.. Only thing S19 has going for it - is the weight. And even then S22 isn't far off in that department. I like how mini has all those sexy handles. and looks quit nice also. Doh i hate that plastic cover over motherboard. And mostly the 40kg weight.. 

I'm still waiting for something in 30kg weight, or under. 

[DavidB]

14 hours ago, Rawnei said:

We're all different, I love playing music and annoying others with my music. 😂

Do you use the wheel's speakers or your own?  Re: Paying for stuff you don't need or want.....

Edited July 11, 2023 by DavidB
spelling

[DavidB]

11 hours ago, Andy.Lin said:

Being these price,there's no profit for distributors.

The tariffs and sales tax are high also.

Andi, out of curiosity how do the tariffs vary for the different markets? It is easy to know the variance in VAT/GST/Sales tax (20-22% Euro zone, 15% NZ, 10% Australia & 6% California) but what about duty?  I think Australia and NZ have free trade agreements with China, I don't know for sure, so duty may be zero in those countries (normally added to price before GST added). Is Europe one price or do the seperate countries have additional duties?

In regards to the tariffs and sales taxes being high this is another reason for basic wheels without all the unnecessary add-ons due to the multiplier effect VAT&Duty has on price. Yes, the pads etc are a small fraction of the total wheel cost when made in China but it is a cost to which VAT&duty is added. The OEMs must cringe when they see lots of owners immediately ditch the supplied pads and pedals for aftermarket ones sold for hundreds of Euros/Dollars. 

Maybe it is not economical for the EUC OEMs but there may be a case for offering stripped down/basic wheels for those who don't want multicoloured LED strip lights and speakers they will never use.

Edited July 11, 2023 by DavidB

[slippyfeet]

I was all for trying the S19 last month, but the delays slowly tempered my excitement.  As a street rider, the switch to the un-staggered knobby was a bummer because I like my EUC's operation as dead silent as possible. Another point of concern is the roller bearings longevity - While I probably wouldn't break any of them with my riding habits, I wouldn't be happy if they started to squeak a few months down the road. I'll keep tabs on the brave ones who go with this wheel and post content about their ownership.
As far as the style of it, I like it and am all for wheels that are ride-ready straight out of the box, but the overall dimensions of the machine is bigger than I'd like. 
I decided to go with the CP mini this riding season, but I'm not abandoning KS if they're serious about redesigning their small 14&16 inch wheels.  

[Drunkard]

14 hours ago, Andy.Lin said:

Being these price,there's no profit for distributors.

The tariffs and sales tax are high also.

Sadly we will never going to be told the real cost of making the EUC ad the profit margins that manufacturers and distributors get. 

 

I'm checking the local shop website now and can see they selling the ULTRON T108 for 1 686,00 €. Now this model have the 1800WH of battery inside. If have two motors, hydraulic breaks, speed controllers, suspension bits.. Not saying that EUC have less parts, but the MB and BMS boards are not some state of the art components. I imagine the motors used on scooters are more mass produced and the price is lower on those but there is two of them there.. 

In the end of the day I believe it all comes down to the fact that there are a lot of brands making scooters and competing for price while EUC's are made by only a few companies and charging whatever they want. 

[winterwheel]

On 7/7/2023 at 2:00 AM, Rawnei said:

I would never pick S19 over S22, S22 is superior in every way, you should keep working on S22, PWM Tiltback, stronger motherboard (more current), stronger screws for suspension linkage.

That said if I was completely new to EUC and wanted a wheel for commuting then S19 might look attractive.

For me wheels have gotten too big. I have no interest in monsters, master pro, v13, s22 etc. The original fun of riding is lost with these large wheels. I'm happy with 60kmh upper speed limit and suspension is a must these days. Not surprisingly the EX has been the perfect commuting for me, I could see my self getting another if there are any still around when the time comes. For short range and (admittedly limited) tricking I have the 14D and 16S.

I am super interested in the "16" inch suspension wheels that have been coming out recently. I would love the S-18 as much as the Ex if it had just a bit more range and power, so the S-19 seems pretty interesting to me. Although I'm sad about its color. I have always been a bit wary of the V11, it seems too fragile to me although it's our most popular midrange wheel here so I might come around eventually.

Also, I detest power pads, so there's that.

Edited July 11, 2023 by winterwheel
I *really* hate power pads.

[DavidB]

14 hours ago, winterwheel said:

For me wheels have gotten too big. I have no interest in monsters, master pro, v13, s22 etc. The original fun of riding is lost with these large wheels.

 

Touché! A few days ago I watched a vid from ITMonkey in which he custom modified a mcm5 mainly to lighten it from 17 to 16kg as the original weight was a pain carrying up stairs etc.(but also to waterproof, add large capacitor and Molicels). I had to chuckle. I had previously watched a Commander mini video where the reviewer thought the weight (40kg) was OK.

Edited July 12, 2023 by DavidB

[Guillaume_k]

On 7/11/2023 at 5:57 AM, DavidB said:

Is Europe one price or do the seperate countries have additional duties?

From: https://trade.ec.europa.eu/access-to-markets/en/content/guide-import-goods

Quote

The EU is a customs union, which means that a single import tariff is due at the place of entry where the import declaration is made, irrespective of the EU Member State. The product can then circulate in the EU market without further customs formalities.

VAT prices vary from 16 to 27% depending on the EU country, except special rates for food, cultural products etc. (source)

Edited July 12, 2023 by Guillaume_k

[ride INMOTION]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:54 PM, slippyfeet said:

I was all for trying the S19 last month, but the delays slowly tempered my excitement.  As a street rider, the switch to the un-staggered knobby was a bummer because I like my EUC's operation as dead silent as possible. Another point of concern is the roller bearings longevity - While I probably wouldn't break any of them with my riding habits, I wouldn't be happy if they started to squeak a few months down the road. I'll keep tabs on the brave ones who go with this wheel and post content about their ownership.
As far as the style of it, I like it and am all for wheels that are ride-ready straight out of the box, but the overall dimensions of the machine is bigger than I'd like. 
I decided to go with the CP mini this riding season, but I'm not abandoning KS if they're serious about redesigning their small 14&16 inch wheels.  

thanks for your support.

[onewheelkoregro]

@Kingsong Customer Support I was considering an s19 I really like the range and suspension. I recently crashed a 16x because of a balancing error but I really loved the 16x, would like to get a suspension EUC but the s18 lacks range so I have held off. The s19 is perfect spec wise for me, I usually travel between 25-35 mph and suspension would be a plus but the price is really way to high. For cheaper I would be able to get the commander mini which goes almost 50 mph and has a roll cage and has a suspension as well. But I really like the aesthetic of the s19 I never buy newly released electronics because there is no way to see the bugs that inevitably arise during mass production but a 3rd generation s19 is definitely in the cards once the price drops to $2500 or cheaper.

[slippyfeet]

7 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

@Kingsong Customer Support I was considering an s19 I really like the range and suspension. I recently crashed a 16x because of a balancing error but I really loved the 16x, would like to get a suspension EUC but the s18 lacks range so I have held off. The s19 is perfect spec wise for me, I usually travel between 25-35 mph and suspension would be a plus but the price is really way to high. For cheaper I would be able to get the commander mini which goes almost 50 mph and has a roll cage and has a suspension as well. But I really like the aesthetic of the s19 I never buy newly released electronics because there is no way to see the bugs that inevitably arise during mass production but a 3rd generation s19 is definitely in the cards once the price drops to $2500 or cheaper.

I had the same predicament, but ultimately purchased a Mini last week due to many units in content creator's hands scoring decent reviews, and it basically being a 3rd+ generation Master in better packaging. Price was right too. I still daily my 18XL and prefer Kingsong's pedal flatness in turns. My opinion is that this year isn't the time for a new(beta) KS wheel. If anything comes out from them in 2023 it'll have to be a system from their 16X/18XL/S18 line put into a smaller package to compete directly with Begode's Mten4 and A2. 
Until they can ultimately produce reliable machines higher than 84V overtime, that is.

[techyiam]

17 hours ago, slippyfeet said:

it basically being a 3rd+ generation Master in better packaging.

This is the part that is hard to ignore.

If you are someone who wants to try out a Master, the Mini has a late batch Master motor drive system, but with hydraulic suspension and a protective shell. The owner doesn't have to spend more time and money out of the gate, unless he wants to improve on the waterproofing. 

And by the sound of most first impressions and teardowns, the build quality is decent, especially if the price is taken into account. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by techyiam

[Andy.Lin]

1 hour ago, slippyfeet said:

I had the same predicament, but ultimately purchased a Mini last week due to many units in content creator's hands scoring decent reviews, and it basically being a 3rd+ generation Master in better packaging. Price was right too. I still daily my 18XL and prefer Kingsong's pedal flatness in turns. My opinion is that this year isn't the time for a new(beta) KS wheel. If anything comes out from them in 2023 it'll have to be a system from their 16X/18XL/S18 line put into a smaller package to compete directly with Begode's Mten4 and A2. 
Until they can ultimately produce reliable machines higher than 84V overtime, that is.

How do you feel about the Mini?

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

3rd+ generation Master in better packaging.

How are we determining this, Because @Marty Backe said so?......It's like your fathers father said so, i almost fell asleep during his review.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

3rd+ generation Master in better packaging.

How are we determining this, Because @Marty Backe said so?......It's like your fathers father said so, i almost fell asleep during his review.

Wait a minute, @slippyfeet said that.

 

But I agree with Marty. I have long thought the Mini could be the real Master replacement, for those who don't need to go 90 km/h. The only things that held me back were:

(1) How will the Mini actually ride?

(2) Will the quality be decent even enough for me to make a purchase. Eevees and Marty were brutal on the first batch Commander Pro quality earlier on.

Edited July 15, 2023 by techyiam

[Punxatawneyjoe]

7 hours ago, techyiam said:

Wait a minute, @slippyfeet said that.

Marty said that in his 300 mile review, Its at 1:31 in his video.

[slippyfeet]

21 hours ago, Andy.Lin said:

How do you feel about the Mini?

 

It's still in transit, I estimate another 3-4 more weeks.

I didn't go into the purchase specifically looking for a "Master", though even Seb at RideOne said it felt like one in his video. 
I've only ever had long-term experiences on 84V non-suspension machines and the few times I got on a friend's S22, I wasn't digging how soft it was (and the braking/acceleration was very latent).
The "stiff" suspension of the Mini is what turned my eye to it, I like to have some response from the road surface, I just don't like getting my foot launched off the pedals from potholes I don't notice.

BUT honestly, If I can sell off some old wheels and Jack's eventual review shows promise, I foresee myself replacing those with an S19 IF the first units are holding up better than Casey's gold S22 pro.
& It'll probably be used primarily in grassy sends.

[Hellkitten]

15 minutes ago, slippyfeet said:

had long-term experiences on 84V non-suspension machines and the few times I got on a friend's S22, I wasn't digging how soft it was (and the braking/acceleration was very latent).

I rode my friends a fair bit and I found I hated it in soft mode but med or hard felt natural and very easy to acclimate onto. Even with third party pads it needs an extended part of the battery case to mount your brake pads higher and farther back. The pedals can also be moved into different positions. When those things are are dialed in, it’s a fun zippy wheel.