Attaching a trailer to EUC (Split from “PSA: Inmotion V13 alarms and tiltback combined design flaw makes it unsafe to ride at high speed. Inmotion working on a fix”)

[novazeus]

actually, i'm shopping for something like this when my v13 actually gets here. 

my dumpster is at my gate also and the s22 was groaning when i carried a huge trash bag to my dumpster. plus wind swings the bag and can cause problems. i think the trailer will actually make the v13 safer, more cutout proof. still cutout but the trailer should lessen the tilt forward. 

one size definitely doesn't fit everybody's use. i was watching @Marty Backefinal thoughts about the v13, and he was hating on the lack of spikes on the pedals and the pads, and for my pasture use, spiked pedals and pads absolutely suck. 

riding in my pastures is like riding on stairs that are horizontal but one step tilts left, the next tilts right, and ur also falling into holes. so running off is not an occasional thing, it's just what u have to do so u want to be able to disengage from the wheel. kick it one way while u bail the other way.

fortunately i know i don't need protective gear at all in the pastures. glock yes, flip flops no.

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by mrelwood

[Paul A]

 

[novazeus]

16 minutes ago, Paul A said:

 

yeah i saw that when u posted it before. i think the rails on the v13 will be perfect for mounting a cargo trailer. Bob is too smart to ride in one.

[mrelwood]

On 2/24/2023 at 6:08 PM, novazeus said:

excluding exterior forces, rocks and sticks, could u expound on ur other reasons why a wheel can't be built foolproof.

It’s largely the exterior forces, they can’t be excluded. They affect whether a vehicle is safe to ride or not.

On 2/24/2023 at 7:11 PM, novazeus said:

ur saying humans are incapable of building a device that can transport me to my mailbox 2200' feet away and back, safely. without me donning protective armor?

Absolutely they are! But like @Punxatawneyjoe said, it isn’t an EUC. Or any other self-balancing vehicle. An e-bike should be pretty safe.

 But “safely” isn’t a predetermined measure. Each of us have our own safety scale, and what is safe enough.

 

23 hours ago, novazeus said:

i think the trailer will actually make the v13 safer, more cutout proof. still cutout but the trailer should lessen the tilt forward.

That can’t work. If you’re limiting the forward-backwards tilt of the wheel, you’re also hindering it’s braking capabilities. Especially if going downhill, the wheel absolutely must stay horizontal in relation to the horizon, while the trailer points downwards. If the trailer limits the tilt, you’d be accelerating hard whenever there’s a downhill.

 And since it’s attached to one side of the EUC only, it’ll be impossible to go straight when accelerating and braking when it’s loaded. Possibly even unloaded. You need a trailer that attaches symmetrically to the wheel left to right. Preferably at the center. But not at the top, since it would also hinder braking. Best would be at axle height.

 

20 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

Maybe they could have a tilt back test option in the app so people could feel it at low speeds on request to learn how it feels.

You can set the tilt-back speed manually as low as you want on any wheel.

20 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

Maybe even slight custom adjustment of how harsh the tilt comes in?

I wouldn’t trust the end user with a setting like that. To make a wheel (more/reasonably) foolproof the tilt-back behavior must be carefully tailored at the factory.

 

15 hours ago, novazeus said:

yeah i’ve ridden on hard pedals and fully inflated tires from the beginning.

Hard riding modes in 2017 were softer than current medium modes… I do suggest that you do a few of your daily runs trying out different settings as well, for example Commuter 70% and Off-road 50%. It feels good when the wheel works with you instead of against you.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Best would be at axle height.

Agreed, the only way i see a trailer working with a load on it would be to attach straps to each side of the middle of the pedals and have them Y behind the EUC like pulling a water skier. You would also have to rig up some sort of "surge" brakes that come on and off with tension on the straps. Maybe some sort of spring loaded device that when pulled releases the brakes and if tension is released it applies the brakes.

[novazeus]

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

It’s largely the exterior forces, they can’t be excluded. They affect whether a vehicle is safe to ride or not.

Absolutely they are! But like @Punxatawneyjoe said, it isn’t an EUC. Or any other self-balancing vehicle. An e-bike should be pretty safe.

 But “safely” isn’t a predetermined measure. Each of us have our own safety scale, and what is safe enough.

 

That can’t work. If you’re limiting the forward-backwards tilt of the wheel, you’re also hindering it’s braking capabilities. Especially if going downhill, the wheel absolutely must stay horizontal in relation to the horizon, while the trailer points downwards. If the trailer limits the tilt, you’d be accelerating hard whenever there’s a downhill.

 And since it’s attached to one side of the EUC only, it’ll be impossible to go straight when accelerating and braking when it’s loaded. Possibly even unloaded. You need a trailer that attaches symmetrically to the wheel left to right. Preferably at the center. But not at the top, since it would also hinder braking. Best would be at axle height.

 

You can set the tilt-back speed manually as low as you want on any wheel.

I wouldn’t trust the end user with a setting like that. To make a wheel (more/reasonably) foolproof the tilt-back behavior must be carefully tailored at the factory.

 

Hard riding modes in 2017 were softer than current medium modes… I do suggest that you do a few of your daily runs trying out different settings as well, for example Commuter 70% and Off-road 50%. It feels good when the wheel works with you instead of against you.

u saw this?

and my s18 and s22 pedals are set at expert mode now. it's been 4 years since i rode my old wheels but i can't tell a difference in pedal hardness from 4 years ago and now. 

i understand that attaching a trailer to the v13 will take some engineering on my part. i'll relay my success or failure when i finish the project. 

an ebike won't work for me with prostate cancer.

and what protective gear would u suggest for this wonderful summer day in florida. i'm 4th generation floridian and can barely breathe in this heat.

 

 

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

7 minutes ago, novazeus said:

u saw this?

yes, @Paul A has posted it several times in several other threads. It doesn't illustrate real weight though. Nor does it illustrate downhill with weight. It's a foolish attachment point in my opinion also, you always want a low center of gravity on your trailer tongue. Especially with an EUC that relies on tilting on it's axis for accelerating and braking.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Punxatawneyjoe
spelling

[novazeus]

hard to engineer something without ever having seen the actual equipment in person.

but the kickstand might also be a place to mount the hitch.

especially when ur internet service is worse than dial up.

 

[Robse]

The only and correct place to mount the hitch / attach the trailer, is somewhere at the rider. NOT the wheel.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Robse

[Punxatawneyjoe]

13 minutes ago, Robse said:

is somewhere at the rider. NOT the wheel.

good lord, that's even a higher point than the center line for more mechanical advantage. Any weight on the trailer pushing you will definitely prevent braking.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Punxatawneyjoe

[Robse]

1 minute ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

good lord, that's even a higher point than the center line for more mechanical advantage. Any weight on the trailer pushing you will definitely prevent breaking.

it's a matter of practise. The weigth of the trailer becomes your weigth. you can feel what's going on.  if the trailer in any way pushes or drags the wheel it will move the point of balance.  The guy in the video mentions that after he unmounts the trailer, he has to relearn how to balance.

[Robse]

Anyway: attaching a trailer to a euc is silly. This is not an option for a one wheeled self balancing vehicle. Better use a rucksack 😁

[Punxatawneyjoe]

23 minutes ago, Robse said:

t's a matter of practise. The weigth of the trailer becomes your weigth

i suppose you could lean the weight back thrusting your legs forward, i didn't really think of that option.

@novazeus needs to get his trash to the end of the driveway and likes riding EUC and doesn't want to have to use his backhoe for the small stuff. It's not super practical but it seems he likes to go against the grain sometimes.(i mean that in a good way) Besides he said he already bought the trailer...so it's a done deal.

[Robse]

5 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

i suppose you could lean the weight back thrusting your legs forward, i didn't really think of that option.

@novazeus needs to get his trash to the end of the driveway and likes riding EUC and doesn't want to have to use his backhoe for the small stuff. It's not super practical but it seems he likes to go against the grain sometimes.(i mean that in a good way) Besides he said he already bought the trailer...so it's a done deal.

ok 😉 then i suggest that he pushes the trailer. 👍

[novazeus]

i said i'd share my success or failure on this project but i decided riding today, because the internet never goes away, some lowbrain might try to emulate what i did, kill themselves and their next of kin try to sue me, 

so yeah, terrible idea, don't do it.

side note, after ditching the stupid pads, i actually enjoyed riding the s22 today with just my new 3/8" yoga mat. 

my legs don't touch the wheel. my only connection to the wheel is the bottom of my shoes. i make the wheel go and stop by shifting my weight to my balls of my feet and stop by shifting to the heels. just like a golfer does to swing a golf club.

i don't like pads or spiked pedals but i can tolerate them on the s22 because these van's don't have the typical waffle soles. i'd prefer good anti-skid tape, u know, like what wheels had in the beginning. again, don't copy what i do, u will probably die!

[Hellkitten]

Why don’t you swap the spiked pedals for the grip tape version? 

[novazeus]

Just now, Hellkitten said:

Why don’t you swap the spiked pedals for the grip tape version? 

i had muted the spikes before with a thin yoga mat and then covered it with grip tape, and i might do that again. if u notice i have lowered the stock pedals and moved them forward, which was more hobbyist shit i really wanted to do but the difference for me made the wheel so much better. 

these hiking van's have a racheting type cable shoelace that i really like so not wearing the normal waffle sole van's with shoelaces is no big loss. i just can't shift my feet position like i like to do with the spikes. i haven't mastered one leg riding. that is some voodoo magic i don't understand. 

i might make some thin material to atteched to the top of these pedals and then cover with grip tape. the thin yoga mat wasn't terrible, i just wanted to see how bad i hated spiked pedals so i took it off. the pedal length is fine. instead of wasting money on aftermarket stuff, i'd rather modify what the manufacturer attempted to do. 

honestly, i look at these pad configurations on these other wheels and i think my bone structure must be different from others.

like i say, i ride differently from others. i only touch the wheel with the soles of my shoes. i don't have wobbles.

[novazeus]

i ordered a minibike. gas powered. idk if the company i ordered it from is legit. 

but worse case scenario, if i'm not happy with my engineering, i can always buy a bicycle cheap and use that to pull the trailer. it's only 2000' about. that's faster than walking with two big garbage bags. 

i researched today that i can legally take my tractor on the highway to go get gas and diesel, so i'll probably do that when i need to refuel. the traffic will die down after Easter so it won't be too bad. 

[novazeus]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

It’s largely the exterior forces, they can’t be excluded. They affect whether a vehicle is safe to ride or not.

cows, donkeys, sandhill cranes, raccoons, tree limbs, etc are more of a concern. i just don't want the wheel to malfunction on a perfectly clean environment. 

other than the underrated tires y'all all insisted were fine in the old days, never had a cut out or overlean. u can't put a 70kg rated tire on a wheel and not have problems. they don't just randomly stamp the sidewalls with silly numbers. except 9bot didn't even have a rating on their s2's. 

[mhpr262]

Pulling a trailer on an EUC works really well, just dont try to attach it to the frame. I bought a super cheap ($14) shopping trolley (the kind used by grannys when they dont have a car to do their shopping with), extended the handle with an old, snapped off broomstick attached to the trolley with zip ties and I  drag that trailer behind me holding the handle of the broomstick in my hand. Hauling 20 lbs of groceries or garden waste is nothing with that setup.

I'd never attach a trailer directly to the EUC. If the wheels get caught by some sign post, curb or manhole cover it will really mess you up. With my setup the handle is simply pulled out of your hand and you can brake, stop, turn around and pick it back up again.

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

Pulling a trailer on an EUC works really well, just dont try to attach it to the frame. I bought a super cheap ($14) shopping trolley (the kind used by grannys when they dont have a car to do their shopping with), extended the handle with an old, snapped off broomstick attached to the trolley with zip ties and I  drag that trailer behind me holding the handle of the broomstick in my hand. Hauling 20 lbs of groceries or garden waste is nothing with that setup.

I'd never attach a trailer directly to the EUC. If the wheels get caught by some sign post, curb or manhole cover it will really mess you up. With my setup the handle is simply pulled out of your hand and you can brake, stop, turn around and pick it back up again.

i understand what ur saying, but a bicyclist would have the same issues if they clipped something with these trailers. they were designed for bicycles because there's lots more or them than wheels. 

but yeah, some kind of breakaway attachment would be safer if attaching it mechanically. this aluminum burley flatbed trailer has been around for years and has great reviews on amazon. i chose it because it's like 15 pounds or less. u might forget ur towing it. i've pulled lots of trailers in my lifetime and u do have to kinda know what ur doing.

velcro might be the perfect solution.

whatever i do, it will probably involve velcro, yoga mats and orange duct tape. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by novazeus

[Funky]

23 hours ago, Robse said:

The only and correct place to mount the hitch / attach the trailer, is somewhere at the rider. NOT the wheel.

Pop some plug in the ass and you have quick release in "Oh-Shit" moment..

[novazeus]

this single wheel trailer by burley

https://burley.com/products/coho-xc

might be a better complement to a wheel.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by novazeus

[Robse]

2 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

Pulling a trailer on an EUC works really well, just dont try to attach it to the frame. I bought a super cheap ($14) shopping trolley (the kind used by grannys when they dont have a car to do their shopping with), extended the handle with an old, snapped off broomstick attached to the trolley with zip ties and I  drag that trailer behind me holding the handle of the broomstick in my hand. Hauling 20 lbs of groceries or garden waste is nothing with that setup.

I'd never attach a trailer directly to the EUC. If the wheels get caught by some sign post, curb or manhole cover it will really mess you up. With my setup the handle is simply pulled out of your hand and you can brake, stop, turn around and pick it back up again.

Excact !    The rider, not the wheel

[novazeus]

fyi