Cerbera Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Freeforester said: If I’m not mistaken, cast items are generally finished after casting, ie the casting is then machined? I'd be surprised if that finishing was a manual process either, but hey, it's Begode, who knows what they think is fine ?! Edited January 16, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) The issue has been reported by several owners. Stock tyres failing on stock rims. If distributors and Begode have been informed, there needs to be a warning sent to all owners. Regardless of the yet to be determined cause. Seems unlikely to be user error, if it is stock parts, and if users have had no input aside from inflating tyre. Edited January 16, 2023 by Paul A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Ok, well thats maybe not enough reports out of many thousands of rides across maybe a few thousand machines to warrant a full-scale 'everyone shit the bed' type alert, but it is enough reports to start trying to find common factors between them all. Is that all going on over in the 'not here' discussions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Cerbera said: Ok, well thats maybe not enough reports out of many thousands of rides across maybe a few thousand machines to warrant a full-scale 'everyone shit the bed' type alert, but it is enough reports to start trying to find common factors between them all. Is that all going on over in the 'not here' discussions ? But, but... What about tradition? We went bat-$@#^ crazy when a few V12s burnt their controllers. Lost it when the S20 turned into a rocket. Cancelled orders when S22 stators slipped (oddly, very little panic over T4 motors). Wrote off the 16X when water got in the power switch. Put our V11s away if there was any hint of a drizzle. Started charging our GW wheels suspended over swimming pools (outdoor pools only of course) and replacing batteries at least annually after the 900 wH packs caught fire in the boot of peoples' cars. Killed Abrams when it cutoff and self destructed on a tame forest road. All of those were relatively rare events too. Tradition! Edited January 16, 2023 by Tawpie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) Maybe I have become jaded over time to the 'another week, another fatal gotway flaw' rolling bingo card. Still trying to work out if either of the 2 relatively big things reported recently are enough to stop me riding mine. I've gone ultra paranoid now, and just noticed my trolley handle is a bit stiffer than it used to be, and my suspension was unusually squeaky the other day in the wet - is that a sign that my bridge-piece has gone, or is going as well I wonder ? And of course now I don't know whether to stick with the CST186, which has been fine for 550 miles, or do I risk swapping it out for this Michelin City Extra I've got sitting here... is it more likely to fall off, less likely, or equal chance ? How would we know if it's at risk or not ? Edited January 16, 2023 by Cerbera 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 A tyre coming off the rim whilst riding would seem to be a potential serious issue. Perhaps notification to all owners would be warranted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cerbera said: Maybe I have become jaded over time to the 'another week, another fatal gotway flaw' rolling bingo card. Still trying to work out if either of the 2 relatively big things reported recently are enough to stop me riding mine. I'm gone ultra paranoid now, and just noticed my trolley handle is a bit stiffer than it used to be, and my suspension was unusually squeaky the other day in the wet - is that a sign that my bridge-piece has gone, or is going as well I wonder ? And of course now I don't know whether to stick with the CST186, which has been fine for 550 miles, or do I risk swapping it out for this Michelin City Extra I've got sitting here... If your tire is acting normal i.e. no wobbles and oscillation and if your suspension is not moving stiffly then you are fine, at least for now, these are just things for you to be aware of whenever (sooner or later) you are doing a tire swap and if your suspension starts to feel stiff. Meanwhile all we can do is try to gather evidence and highlight it for the community, look for community solutions if there are any and hopefully get Begode to acknowledge and improve these things. Re: Swapping tire to Michelin City Extra, yeah of course it will be a risk with the evidence you can see in this thread, if you swap you will have to be mindful of any oscillation and watch the tire behaviour closely, it's 100% correct to be a bit paranoid in that situation with what we know now, without a doubt when my tire jumped off at slow speed it was the most violent fall I ever had, worse than falling at 66kmh from cutting out on the S22 (I believe I got a concussion from the slow fall). Re: Trolley handle that's another weak-point, the whole construction is super weak and prone to breaking, I have taken apart my trolley and troubleshooted it numerous times as the pins that hold it in place gets stuck in the button pressed position, it's very poor design but thankfully it's not fatal to the rider. Imagine how I feel about my master, I have a whole list of problems that I had with it and barely put any kilometers on it since getting it, probably spent more time taking it apart and troubleshooting things than I did riding it, the first thing I had to do when I got mine was open the controller because one of the main battery board cables was sticking out over the charge port and I had to re-solder my rear-light which was not working due to poor solder job out of factory, less than 250km later one pack was suddenly 0v and I had to wait 3 months for a new one, great first impressions and period of ownership for me yay. I had grizzla fairings, flow pads, kuba linkage and a rockshox shock at home already while waiting for the wheel to arrive imagine my disappointment here. 1 hour ago, Paul A said: A tyre coming off the rim whilst riding would seem to be a potential serious issue. Perhaps notification to all owners would be warranted. I agree but it's an uphill battle when even a lot of people in the community will dismiss it why should Begode care, with the suspension bridge we got a response but now we will see if anything happens. Edited January 16, 2023 by Rawnei 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeforester Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Cerbera said: I'd be surprised if that finishing was a manual process either, but hey, it's Begode, who knows what they think is fine ?! The repeatability or quality of their machining might be worth a closer look; there does appear to be something of an anomaly, one may reason it would be good, for those considering the wheel, as well as those already invested, to ascertain where the problem lies. Of course the tyres will come under similar scrutiny, though as it appears that the issue occurs over several makes and types of tyre, this suggests that the issue may be to do with the rim. More generally, building down to a price is a less desirable route (to me) than building up to a quality, which is why I’m personally not considering Begode or EB wheels these days, though I’ve been perfectly happy with the build quality of the 2019/2020 MSP I have. Edited January 16, 2023 by Freeforester 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, Freeforester said: The repeatability or quality of their machining might be worth a closer look; there does appear to be something of an anomaly, one may reason it would be good, for those considering the wheel, as well as those already invested, to ascertain where the problem lies. Of course the tyres will come under similar scrutiny, though as it appears that the issue occurs over several makes and types of tyre, this suggests that the issue may be to do with the rim. More generally, building down to a price is a less desirable route (to me) than building up to a quality, which is why I’m personally not considering Begode or EB wheels these days, though I’ve been perfectly happy with the build quality of the 2019/2020 MSP I have. Companies do change though, Gotway/Begode has produced some high quality wheels in the past for instance the Nikola was a very solid wheel, MSP was alright too even if it had some flaws, it's possible that the engineers that contributed to those models left or that leadership got more involved and stirred things up, for example the Nikola has a pretty awesome LED light show feature no other Gotway/Begode wheels has this, maybe that person who implemented that is no longer there, who knows, right now their whole lineup doesn't exactly exhume quality. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 21 minutes ago, Rawnei said: high quality wheels in the past Perhaps the personnel that left Gotway/Begode to establish Veteran/Leaperkim might be the reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 6 hours ago, Rawnei said: Imagine how I feel about my master, I have a whole list of problems that I had with it and barely put any kilometers on it since getting it, probably spent more time taking it apart and troubleshooting things than I did riding it, the first thing I had to do when I got mine was open the controller because one of the main battery board cables was sticking out over the charge port and I had to re-solder my rear-light which was not working due to poor solder job out of factory, less than 250km later one pack was suddenly 0v and I had to wait 3 months for a new one, great first impressions and period of ownership for me yay. I had grizzla fairings, flow pads, kuba linkage and a rockshox shock at home already while waiting for the wheel to arrive imagine my disappointment here. Oh dude I know - I have been right there feeling all the disappointment with you - it's been one thing after another with your machine - it really is the very worst of luck you seem to be having with that one. You are making a difference though ! I am glad I reported the bridge thing to my dealer, Speedyfeet, who have ordered some spare bridge parts for now, and are investigating the possibility of getting a replacement steel one made that is a lot stronger. I haven't told them about the tyre thing yet. (1 problem at a time hey) ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Rawnei said: Companies do change though, Gotway/Begode has produced some high quality wheels in the past for instance the Nikola was a very solid wheel, MSP was alright too even if it had some flaws, it's possible that the engineers that contributed to those models left or that leadership got more involved and stirred things up, for example the Nikola has a pretty awesome LED light show feature no other Gotway/Begode wheels has this, maybe that person who implemented that is no longer there, who knows, right now their whole lineup doesn't exactly exhume quality. They do, and Gotway have already said that their next machine will be a high quality one, and there is clear and repeated evidence that they do listen to customer feedback / wants / needs, hence the improvements we see to the extended Master family (kick stand, metal battery boxes / fixings / stronger / more waterproof etc). And they have been quite good about addressing for example the display issues and making available better suspension geo etc. Like you - I had been somewhat lured into a false sense of security by 5 years of flawlessly performing MS3V, but in some ways I feared going in that my luck might run out if I bought another one of their machines - in some ways I consider myself lucky I've only had display and some ropey bearings to deal with ! I'll be honest though - I was, at no point, expecting the bloody tyre to be falling off the rim - you'd think these things were pretty damn fundamental to be getting right wouldn't you ?! Edited January 16, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Cerbera said: I'll be honest though - I was, at no point, expecting the bloody tyre to be falling off the rim - you'd think these things were pretty damn fundamental to be getting right wouldn't you ?! I would not be surprised at some point in future the batteries will start burning again.. It seems there will never be an awesome, problem free EUC. And it makes me sad. Wheels are getting better and better. But same time they are making somewhat dumb mistakes. That everyone who has some sense can see problems coming miles away. Aren't rims made by someone else? Not gotway? If yes - gotway isn't really at fault then. It's who ever are making these shitty rims. One may even think they are trying to ruin the company.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 11 minutes ago, Cerbera said: They do, and Gotway have already said that their next machine will be a high quality one, and there is clear and repeated evidence that they do listen to customer feedback / wants / needs, hence the improvements we see to the extended Master family (kick stand, metal battery boxes / fixings / stronger / more waterproof etc). And they have been quite good about addressing for example the display issues and making available better suspension geo etc. Like you - I had been somewhat lured into a false sense of security by 5 years of flawlessly performing MS3V, but in some ways I feared going in that my luck might run out if I bought another one of their machines - in some ways I consider myself lucky I've only had display and some ropey bearings to deal with ! I'll be honest though - I was, at no point, expecting the bloody tyre to be falling off the rim - you'd think these things were pretty damn fundamental to be getting right wouldn't you ?! IMHO some of those things that you list as improvements based on customer feedback are critical flaws that shouldn't be there in the first place that the customers shouldn't have to point them out and ask for improvements! It's not like it's "nice to have" features that tire doesn't fall off and parts doesn't break too easily, those are critical flaws! 😅 They said EX30 would be higher quality wheel but it has many of the same flaws (same bridge for example, does it have updated rim? Who knows) and some new ones (battery cases extends over the tire for example). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rawnei said: IMHO some of those things that you list as improvements based on customer feedback are critical flaws that shouldn't be there in the first place that the customers shouldn't have to point them out and ask for improvements! It's not like it's "nice to have" features that tire doesn't fall off and parts doesn't break too easily, those are critical flaws! 😅 Oh yeah - I'm with you 100% there, and of course NONE of those subsequent improvements help the people who've already shelled out 3K + another 1K on upgrades on the duff original model ! My paragraph above was only a partial defence of them - think of it as looking for any bread at all in a shit sandwich rather than trying to make excuses for them... and doubly so now poor @Magman116s one has (so far) inexplicably gone up in flames today... Christ alive, it's a bad week for that model, and all of us who have them !! Edited January 16, 2023 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 26 minutes ago, Cerbera said: gone up in flames today What are the details of this fire? Member Asphalt might need to update the fire count thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 57 minutes ago, Paul A said: What are the details of this fire? Member Asphalt might need to update the fire count thread. @ him in the thread about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Thanks, have found the thread and just read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Funky said: I would not be surprised at some point in future the batteries will start burning again.. X-files theme tune. Well aren't you Capt Nostradamus today ?! You said that before today's Master fire ! Fortunately for him (not that anything about his fire was good), it wasn't his batteries this time. I do believe we haven't yet had a fire in the 50E's that wasn't directly crash-induced ? Oh wait, yes, there was all the melting zinc strip ones weren't there ? Sigh... Edited January 16, 2023 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, Cerbera said: X-files theme tune. Well aren't you Capt Nostradamus today ?! You said that before today's Master fire ! Fortunately for him (not that anything about his fire was good), it wasn't his batteries this time. I do believe we haven't yet had a fire in the 50E's that wasn't directly crash-induced ? Oh wait, yes, there was all the melting zinc strip ones weren't there ? Sigh... xD I didn't even know.. Doh looking at post times.. He made his post 4 hrs ago, i made my post 3 hrs ago.. Still nothing new, euc will continue to burn.. Doh this is the first master that i know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeforester Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Rawnei said: right now their whole lineup doesn't exactly exhume quality. Far less exude, lol! They’ll have to dig up their old, dead wheels to do that, lol! Edited January 16, 2023 by Freeforester 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeforester Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 4 hours ago, Cerbera said: I'll be honest though - I was, at no point, expecting the bloody tyre to be falling off the rim - you'd think these things were pretty damn fundamental to be getting right wouldn't you ?! I would indeed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Does anyone know what caused it? Anyone else ride that tire on their Master at a similar psi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 6 hours ago, alcatraz said: Does anyone know what caused it? Anyone else ride that tire on their Master at a similar psi? You mean the S22 tire? Kuba (who created the Kuba link) rides with the S22 tire and it didn't jump off, as you can see in this thread many tires did for instance the stock Master tire also. Cause unknown, I will try again with lower PSI and use a ratchet strap to force it to center and carefully evaluate it's behaviour at low speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 (edited) I am wondering if higher pressures are a factor a bit tonight. We have just 1 report of a tyre coming off at 20 odd PSI right ? Are we sure he isn't mis-remembering that ? All the other pressures mentioned seemed much higher. Also, is there any correlation in rider weight I wonder, in combination with high pressure ? The reason I am thinking along these lines is from my own experience when I first got up to 'speed' on the stock Master. Initially my stock CST was at 35 PSI, and went into uncontrollable wobble territory pretty much as soon as I hit 25 kph or more. This unnerved me greatly, as I have never had ANY wobbles at all on any previous wheels I have owned, so I did a lot of reading, and after accepting that the stock CST 186 is a motorcycle tyre, pressures shouldn't need to be up in the 40 / 50s. I dropped mine to 30, then 25, then 23, then 20 (which was a little low) then back up to 23 where it remains and the wobbles have not been seen since. It still feels ultra stiff on the rim and up the tyre walls, there is no pressing it in like you could on the older bike tyre on my MS3 for example. And I am wondering about inner tubes as well. Am I right in thinking we are all using 2.75 x 18 inner tubes on a 20-22 inch wheel - am I right in thinking that if these tubes are meant for 18 inches, are they not much thinner walled when forced to inflate to the size of the Masters 20 inches+ ? Could that have some bearing on this situation ? Big inflation + thin walled inner tube + larger rider mass = rim pressure slightly beyond what Master rim can hold ? Edited January 17, 2023 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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