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WARNING: Potential Problem with Master Rim (and possibly RS rim)


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  • Rawnei changed the title to WARNING: Potential Problem with Master Rim (and possibly RS rim)

I'll ask the OP if he usually pays attention to how well centered the tire is upon mounting it. 

It's a common mistake, if it's the case. All that is needed is a spin test by hand and looking at the bead and rim, at low pressure before inflating it to desired pressure.

Another possibility is that the rim is severely dented, or that the tire has a torn or otherwise damaged bead. 

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Wider rims do have a greater risk for this to happen, but it alone isn't necessarily the cause. It could be a combination of certain conditions. Slack tire bead + undersized rim diameter + certain tire model + damaged rim + high pressure/heavy rider = boom.

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5 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

I'll ask the OP if he usually pays attention to how well centered the tire is upon mounting it. 

It's a common mistake, if it's the case. All that is needed is a spin test by hand and looking at the bead and rim, at low pressure before inflating it to desired pressure.

Another possibility is that the rim is severely dented, or that the tire has a torn or otherwise damaged bead. 

I know how to install a tire and center it and my rim is not damaged, as you can see in this thread there are several very experienced riders (Roger H, Franco) who had the exact same problem.

Why are people so quick to disregard this as user error? This is potential very serious and widespread problem.

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2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

I know how to install a tire and center it and my rim is not damaged, as you can see in this thread there are several very experienced riders (Roger H, Franco) who had the exact same problem.

Why are people so quick to disregard this as user error? This is potential very serious and widespread problem.

Just investigating. Don't get upset. A witness testimony is the lowest form of proof in any investigation. You can't blame people for being sceptical.

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28 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

Just investigating. Don't get upset. A witness testimony is the lowest form of proof in any investigation. You can't blame people for being sceptical.

Testimonials is the best tool we have in this community, it's not like the manufacturers are transparant and taking the responsibility that they are supposed to take and there is nothing pressuring them to other than the community.

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2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Testimonials is the best tool we have in this community, it's not like the manufacturers are transparant and taking the responsibility that they are supposed to take and there is nothing pressuring them to other than the community.

Remember this thread? A sober reminder. Until we have more eyes on the problem we're only getting one side of the story. I don't mean to piss you off but you can't blame people for wondering. Tires fit with very tight tolerances to be easy enough to get on and to not blow off the rim. In the cycling world where we put 120psi sometimes, it's like this. If it feels "too easy" to get the tire on the rim, there's already a warning sign. Either the rim is too small or the tire bead too big. 

 

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3 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

Remember this thread? A sober reminder. Until we have more eyes on the problem we're only getting one side of the story. I don't mean to piss you off but you can't blame people for wondering. Tires fit with very tight tolerances to be easy enough to get on and to not blow off the rim. In the cycling world where we put 120psi sometimes, it's like this. If it feels "too easy" to get the tire on the rim, there's already a warning sign. Either the rim is too small or the tire bead too big. 

 

As you can see in this very thread it started out with me suspecting that it was my choice of tire that was the issue here but once I shared what happened to me more people who are seasoned riders said they had the exact same experience so I don't think you can compare these two cases at all.

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8 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Why are people so quick to disregard this as user error? This is potential very serious and widespread problem.

I think it's because we've grown accustomed to looking the other way, particularly when we can only get certain features (speed/acceleration) from specific sources. The typical WTF design/assembly decisions are part of the deal and we've decided that it's ok enough.

Personally, I have had to gain the ability to overlook things like useless trolley and rear lift handles, odd choices like bolts that aren't the correct length, headlights that blind oncoming traffic etc. in my pursuit of a better riding experience… and while those choices grate on me, they're still acceptable compromises.

But it's getting close to the limit, the improvements are getting more incremental (smaller) but the consequences of small issues are also magnified.

Edited by Tawpie
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37 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I think it's because we've grown accustomed to looking the other way, particularly when we can only get certain features (speed/acceleration) from specific sources. The typical WTF design/assembly decisions are part of the deal and we've decided that it's ok enough.

Personally, I have had to gain the ability to overlook things like useless trolley and rear lift handles, odd choices like bolts that aren't the correct length, headlights that blind oncoming traffic etc. in my pursuit of a better riding experience… and while those choices grate on me, they're still acceptable compromises.

But it's getting close to the limit, the improvements are getting more incremental (smaller) but the consequences of small issues are also magnified.

I think this discourages people from sharing their negative experiences, there is a lot of dismissing and finger pointing going on, over on Facebook it's even worse with people trolling and harassing on a lot of the posts, so it's no wonder that people don't want to share their negative experiences, it's a big disservice to this community as a whole imho.

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Can't the torque be to big? At some point, where tire simply "slips" off the rim? :D 

More powerful motor - at some point it will become a possibility. :D And i can imagine EUC having one wheel, if right condition is met - it could happen?

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18 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

I think this discourages people from sharing their negative experiences, there is a lot of dismissing and finger pointing going on, over on Facebook it's even worse with people trolling and harassing on a lot of the posts, so it's no wonder that people don't want to share their negative experiences, it's a big disservice to this community as a whole imho.

And it gets worse when we align into brand camps. My brand does this and yours doesn't so my brand is obviously vastly superior in every way (and you are a fool for not already knowing that). Never mind that your tires don't seem to come off, my wheel is still more better than yours.

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19 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

And it gets worse when we align into brand camps. My brand does this and yours doesn't so my brand is obviously vastly superior in every way (and you are a fool for not already knowing that). Never mind that your tires don't seem to come off, my wheel is still more better than yours.

So true.. As someone who rides only one wheel. And are happy - i can't say much. But if have to look at all the new wheels (No matter which brand.) They all are somewhat short-coming. Many small things are simply mind braking, how engineers could let them pass.. Yeah wheels are getting better. BUT same time the quality of those "better" wheels are going way down.

Some wheels for 2000$ are way better, than these new wheels that cost past 4000$. For price we simply are getting worse product.

Doesn't help all these "new" wheels are getting problems left/right. (New wheel and problems? Insert meme -Surprised Pikachu.):D If someone wants an actually good wheel.. They need to buy 3rd batch wheel, or a year older model. Which has been tested by community. Risk getting a lemon or ride a time tested wheel - your choice.

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10 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Wider rims do have a greater risk for this to happen, but it alone isn't necessarily the cause. It could be a combination of certain conditions. Slack tire bead + undersized rim diameter + certain tire model + damaged rim + high pressure/heavy rider = boom.

Could there be any discrepancy between the beads of the stock tyre and the others? One would think that it’s either a rim tolerance or bead tolerance issue, or possibly a combination of both. 
 

It seems that the KS S-20/22 got all of its dirty laundry aired at one time, whereas the Master is a bit of a tease, but in a bad way😳

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10 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

Could there be any discrepancy between the beads of the stock tyre and the others? One would think that it’s either a rim tolerance or bead tolerance issue, or possibly a combination of both. 
 

It seems that the KS S-20/22 got all of its dirty laundry aired at one time, whereas the Master is a bit of a tease, but in a bad way😳

People had it happen with the stock tire also.

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I don't think it's user error. But do wonder if it is something specific to a few machines. There must be multiple hundreds of Masters in the wild by now. If it was intrinsic to the rim design wouldn't we expect to see a lot more of it happening by now, and wouldn't they all do it eventually ? And if not, what are the circumstances that lead to it in some but not (I presume) in the majority of cases ?

My own stock tyre (initially 35, but deflated after first ride to 23 psi by me) started off feeling quite wobbly at speed when I first got the machine, but has smoothed out and calmed down in the first 500 miles of riding. Hard to know if that is because anything has worn / bedded down about the tyre or if my muscles have simply got used to controlling the wobbles, but feeling round the rims today it seems as tight as tight can be.

Edited by Cerbera
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5 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

There must be multiple hundreds of Masters in the wild by now.

Easily. The Master is the best selling electric wheel at Alien Rides. This number alone can't be small.

The Master have been out for a while, and the Master is the most popular wheel for racers at AVS.

Somewhat surprised that if this is a widespread issue, why haven't more people spoken up about it.

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15 hours ago, Rawnei said:

As you can see in this very thread it started out with me suspecting that it was my choice of tire that was the issue here but once I shared what happened to me more people who are seasoned riders said they had the exact same experience so I don't think you can compare these two cases at all.

Maybe so, but you can't burn people for asking questions and speculating. Take it easy.

In the other thread, before the seller chipped in, everyone was in agreement, and everyone was wrong. If that can happen once then maybe it can happen again. It's unlikely but not impossibe.

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22 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I don't think it's user error. But do wonder if it is something specific to a few machines. There must be multiple hundreds of Masters in the wild by now. If it was intrinsic to the rim design wouldn't we expect to see a lot more of it happening by now, and wouldn't they all do it eventually ? And if not, what are the circumstances that lead to it in some but not (I presume) in the majority of cases ?

My own stock tyre (initially 35, but deflated after first ride to 23 psi by me) started off feeling quite wobbly at speed when I first got the machine, but has smoothed out and calmed down in the first 500 miles of riding. Hard to know if that is because anything has worn / bedded down about the tyre or if my muscles have simply got used to controlling the wobbles, but feeling round the rims today it seems as tight as tight can be.

It’s also possible that Begode’s rim supplier build tolerances are a bit ‘Begode’ themselves, and it may be yet another variable, for which Begode have of late become ‘celebrated’…

Edited by Freeforester
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57 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

It’s also possible that Begode’s rim suppliers’ build tolerances are a bit ‘Begode’ themselves, and it may be yet another variable, for which Begode have of late become ‘celebrated’…

Aren't they cast rims though, which should be identical ?

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