Shopping for adjustable voltage and current powerful charger for euc

[meriwald]

It's becoming popular to use decommissioned server PS (power supply) as a charger for euc.

The beauty of it is it supports wide range of voltage input 110-240, has 2-3kW power, very precise and reliable(? This is under question because they are used), and you can adjust voltage and current. You can set voltage for any wheel, 84, 100.8, new 126, 134.4 up to 150. Or you can select lower voltage to optionally charge to 80% or 90% and prolong battery lifespan.

There are plenty offers from AliExpress and Alibaba for these chargers. I spoke to one of the sellers, and got some info:

Price is less then 200usd plus 10$ for any additional cable/adaptor you need (one is included) . That including shipping and one year warranty.

Now about Alexpress shopping. Ive been shopping on Ali for over 10 years, I have platinum status (max) and I know that Ali always stands for the customer, I never lost a single $ over years. So buying on Ali is safe. If any problem you always get a refund.

I have no affiliation with mentioned store, just did some quick shopping. I know there are other offers you can find. I actually decided to make this post because I saw a video recently on YouTube that offers to join a telegram group, in which some person is collecting money and placing an order for such a chargers. 

The offered price is 300 USD plus shipping and duties. That includes adaptors for popular wheels. Doesn't include any warranty at all. And there is a line, you have to wait long time to get it shipped. After joining the group and asking questions about charger, person who collects money and comparing it with other options on the market I was kicked out, banned and messages deleted. they explained ban as the organizer is a doing a lot for community and investing into euc space and it's a private group so I shouldn't discuss options.

Well, I quite think that is not contribution to euc community, it's ripping off euc community. And I'll explain why. bulk buying old server PS (you have to understand what server PS is - it's a unit that has been used for tens of thousands of hours 24/7 non stop for years), been moded by private tech with no credits in China, and shipped to you for over 300usd with no warranty. Amazing deal.

So if you value your time and money I suggest buying from trusted source where you are protected and there is no 5 people in the middle making their cut.

AliExpress link to what I found:

US $128.59  23%OFF | Charger 90v 120v 0- 20A 15A Adjustable Charger 140v 10-120v LI-ION Lithium Lifepo4 Battery Pack Charger LTO Charger 90v 120v 0- https://a.aliexpress.com/_Ewr7ZMp

Again, this in not affiliated link and I'm just sharing my ideas, I think many will find this useful. I have a charger like that and it's very powerful, convenient unit, swiss knife for all euc charging needs especially if you have many wheels.

 

 

[alcatraz]

Some people value local support.

I live in China and warranty isn't a common thing here. Some people just prefer to have it.

I'd happily try the Chinese sellers but saying everyone should, sounds a bit crazy. 

[Bogdanele]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm in the market for a new charger for my inmotion v8 and i'd like something that will work for other wheels, ideally, where current is adjustable, ideally, and that's smart, ideally. One of the questions i have is how smart the charger is, whether it can know the voltage of individual cell groups (something like IMAX chargers), when it knows to deliver how much power along the charging curve of lithium, and so on. Does the solution you're talking about here know when to stop delivering current, or know how to adjust current depending on charge? Or is that the wheel's BMS that knows how much to draw from the charger and all chargers are dumb?

[RagingGrandpa]

On 11/20/2022 at 4:34 AM, Bogdanele said:

inmotion v8

V8F 84V 512wh: should not be recharged faster than 3A!

If you get a high-power charger, you'll need to run it at a very low setting, and not make mistakes when manually selecting its voltage and output.

84V 3A chargers are cheap, why not just have one and keep it simple?

On 11/20/2022 at 4:34 AM, Bogdanele said:

Does the solution you're talking about here know when to stop delivering current

No. These are always-on chargers, with CC and CV setpoints.

On 11/20/2022 at 4:34 AM, Bogdanele said:

adjust current depending on charge

Do some reading on "CC-CV power supply," it's straightforward.

On 11/20/2022 at 4:34 AM, Bogdanele said:

the wheel's BMS that knows how much to draw

The BMS cannot regulate the current. It can only disable the recharging circuit (complete shutoff) if a cell problem is detected.
 

On 11/20/2022 at 4:34 AM, Bogdanele said:

all chargers are dumb

Yes, all EUC chargers today are 'dumb,' meaning they do not know any information about the battery they're connected to. There is no communication between BMS and charger.

Hope this helps

[alcatraz]

Figure out what voltage and current range you need and get a charger on Aliexpress.

Be very careful to set the limits before charging. Each battery pack has its own limits.

Slow charging is always better for battery health so I suppose what you need is a charger where you can adjust the current. Keep it low most of the time. 

If you need a quick top-up, like midway charging, then you can bump up the current to what the charge port and battery pack can max handle. What this number is can be tricky to figure out. If you make a mistake you can fry your charge port and become stranded. 

[KiwiMark]

I'm considering one of these variable voltage/amperage chargers for the flexibility they offer.  On one hand my RS, V12HT & Sherman-S all charge to 100.8V so I could just buy a cheaper 100.8V 8A charger and it would be fine.  On the other hand, if I were to buy another wheel that had more/less voltage then it would be really nice to not need to go out and buy another charger.  Also - if I bought a charger that could output up to 15A then I could charge fast when I need/want to and charge slower when I don't need the speed.   If it could output 30-140V then it could charge any scooter, e-bike or e-unicycle that I've seem available today.

For less than US$5 I can buy a GT16-5 plug (ditto for GT16-4 and pretty much any other plug) with wires and make my own charging lead connecting 1 & 2  to +ve and 4 & 5 to -ve and triple checking that I've got the wiring right before connecting to a wheel.  I do own several multimeters and know how to use them, clearly I wouldn't want to stuff up the wheel or charger.  I could buy a couple of those GT16-5 plugs and use them to plug the charger into both charge ports to enable a higher charging current.

If I didn't sell my Kaabo Mantis Pro scooter then I could buy a suitable plug and use the same charger to charge the scooter.  Currently I have the factory charger plus a faster charger for the scooter.  Each EUC will come with a factory charger.  My e-MTB came with a charger and I bought a 2nd charger so that I could charge both its batteries at once (it has a battery in the down-tube + a 2nd battery above the down tube to give me a total of 1512Wh).  If I sell the RS then I still have 2 EUCs with a charger each and a scooter with 2 chargers and an e-MTB with 2 chargers.  Potentially I could buy the necessary plugs and use the one variable voltage/variable amperage charger to charge all my PEVs.  Even if I sold the scooter, I'm still going to have the e-MTB + 2 EUCs as a minimum of 3 PEVs and one charger between all 3 would be in many ways a lot tidier.

[alcatraz]

An 8A charger without an adjustable current is not going to charge "everything".

[KiwiMark]

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

An 8A charger without an adjustable current is not going to charge "everything".

Exactly!  It would not even be the only charger I'd plug into the Sherman-S if I was in a hurry (8A fast charger + 5A factory charger would give me a nice fast charge).

Even though my current EUC is 100.8V and so is the V12HT on the way and the Sherman-S on order, my scooter is a different voltage and my e-MTB a different voltage again.  If I bought another EUC like the V13 or the Master Pro then I'd need higher voltage output.  Currently I have 5 chargers for my 3 PEVs + 2 PEVs ordered that will each come with a charger = 7 chargers.  Being able to charge all the PEVs off one charger would reduce the clutter.

I have been thinking about buying an 8A or 10A fast charger to run at the same time as the 5A charger for the Sherman-S, but a charger that had 2 x GT16-5 plugs coming from it that could be set to 100.8V 15A - that would do the job by itself.  I could also plug one of those plugs into the V12HT, leave the voltage on 100.8V and set the amps to 5A - 8A and get a decently fast charge into the smaller battery.  If I also had a GT16-3 plug coming off the charger I could set the voltage to 67.2 and amps to ~6A and charge the Kaabo Mantis Pro.  Then I could set the voltage to 54.6V and amps to ~5A and charge one of my e-MTB batteries.

Even if I pay 2x as much for the universal charger, at least it does 10x as much.  Just set the voltage and min amps, find the right plug and plug into the PEV, dial up the amps to the desired amount - done!

[alcatraz]

Get a 15A 30-140V charger but make sure the current is adjustable. Check the noise level and size/weight. 

You'll want to dial down the current a lot. Only some wheels (with huge packs) are going to be able to take the full 15A. (Assuming their BMSs aren't going to cut off charging. Some have limits. Continue to dial down until it stays on.)

Check that your charge port, cabling, bms, etc can take the faster charge before proceeding to fast charge a wheel.

Also, if you want a longer pack lifespan you'll want to slow charge as much as possible.

Edited November 23, 2022 by alcatraz

[KiwiMark]

9 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Get a 15A 30-140V charger but make sure the current is adjustable. Check the noise level and size/weight. 

You'll want to dial down the current a lot. Only some wheels (with huge packs) are going to be able to take the full 15A. (Assuming their BMSs aren't going to cut off charging. Some have limits. Continue to dial down until it stays on.)

Check that your charge port, cabling, bms, etc can take the faster charge before proceeding to fast charge a wheel.

Also, if you want a longer pack lifespan you'll want to slow charge as much as possible.

I've ordered a charger with 30-140V and 1-20A.  I'll set the correct voltage and 1A, plug in and slowly turn up the amps until it reaches the amount I want - taking into consideration the connector & battery. 

The Sherman S can take 15A, but the plugs are only good for 10A I believe, so with both plugs used I can go up to 15A which is still under 0.5C for the 3,600Wh battery. Charging at 10A would be comfortably under 1/3 C which would be a kinder charge rate for the battery.

The V12HT only has 1 plug so maybe 10A COULD be used, but I wouldn't necessarily look to going to the maximum.  It is a 1,750Wh battery, so 8A would be under 0.5C and should be fine as a fast charging rate, likely a good idea to not go any higher than that.  I'll have to check to see if 2 pairs of connectors are used on that 5-pin plug, if only 1 pair is used then I'd avoid going as high as 8A and make 5A (under 0.33C) my normal fast charge rate.

My Scooter has 1,480Wh of battery and charges to 67V, I could charge at 10A and still be under 0.5C, but it is a GX16-3 plug which would be the limiting factor.  Since only one pair of pins are used then it would be a good idea to keep the max current around 5A (maybe 6A would be OK in a pinch).  I think the battery pack would be fine given that the connector is the limiting factor and the pack will be taking under 0.25C.

My E-MTB has 2 batteries - both 48V with 17.5Ah on the bigger one in the down tube and 14Ah on the one that mounts above the down tube.  They charge to 54.6V so I would set the voltage to that.  The batteries should be OK to 7A & 8.5A if I want to keep the current under 0.5C, but the connectors are a 5.5mm barrel connector that probably shouldn't have that much current pushed through them.  The charger supplied with the bike puts out 4A and if that 4A is OK on the 14Ah battery then I should be OK with going to 5A on the 17.5Ah battery.  I don't think that I'll look to dialling up the amperage any higher than 5A for those batteries, if I made it 4A on the smaller battery then that is under 0.33C.

A wheel like the Master Pro has a 4,800Wh battery that charges to 134.4V and comes with a 3A charger which seems really low to me.  That has to be under 0.1C which is probably fine if you charge the wheel when you get home and won't need to use it until the next day.  I'm not too sure on the limits on the GX20-4 plugs, but if both plugs are used then it is likely that you could safely charge at 15A and still be under 0.5C.  Would it be OK to dial up to 20A if you are on a long ride and in a hurry?  Maybe, but you would want to check on any potential limiting factors - that is a lot of wattage.

As long as a new wheel doesn't come out with higher than 140V there shouldn't be anything that I could buy that my charger won't be able to charge.

[meriwald]

On 11/20/2022 at 10:34 AM, Bogdanele said:

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm in the market for a new charger for my inmotion v8 and i'd like something that will work for other wheels, ideally, where current is adjustable, ideally, and that's smart, ideally. One of the questions i have is how smart the charger is, whether it can know the voltage of individual cell groups (something like IMAX chargers), when it knows to deliver how much power along the charging curve of lithium, and so on. Does the solution you're talking about here know when to stop delivering current, or know how to adjust current depending on charge? Or is that the wheel's BMS that knows how much to draw from the charger and all chargers are dumb?

That's the work for BMS. Charger job is to supply precise voltage at set current limit. PSU usually are reliable source of power, and for charging batteries it's a bit overkill. Too precise )

[RagingGrandpa]

FYI, California rider Roger Hajali distributes these with appropriate cables for EUC, for the USA customers:

Quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cLXuv6CG_g
Message me or join my telegram group to buy one. https://t.me/+KVzCwlaU6g83Y2Vh
Selling at $280 with a cable that can charge almost any wheel.

And AlienRides seems to have joined the party too:

Quote

https://alienrides.com/search?q=Hyper 

The power supplies that come from Aliexpress are "pulls," used equipment removed from other installations.
Hopefully these USA resellers are making it clear when the item for sale is a used/recycled/not-newly-made product... 

[Mantraguy]

I bought one of these and it is very useful, especially if you have wheels of different voltages that you want to be able to charge with one charger. However, there are a few drawbacks to make note of:

First, if you aren't comfortable with electronics or are at all predisposed to forgetfulness, this is probably NOT the product for you. Both the current and voltage are adjustable via small knobs on the back of the charger. The way to use it is to first adjust the voltage WITH A VOLTMETER to the maximum charged voltage of your wheel (or lower, if you don't want to charge to 100%). If you have the charger set to a higher voltage and plug it into the wheel (i.e. you have it set to 100.8v but plug it into your 84v wheel), there's a very good chance you're going to do some serious and expensive damage to your EUC (either the board, batteries, or BMS depending on the wheel). Also, as has been mentioned by others above, you also risk damaging your wheel if you turn the current up beyond what is suggested as a maximum charge rate for your wheel / battery. Finally, keep in mind that, even if you have a wheel that can handle high charge current and want to charge at 15A or 20A while you stop for lunch, there's a good chance you're going to blow the breaker (primarily areas of the world that use 110v mains). Charging a Master or similar wheel with 134.4V DC at 20A is about 2688 watts of power (chargers are not 100% efficient so the charger will actually draw 5-10% more than that). Even charging a 134.4v wheel at 15A is still over 2000 watts. If your 110v outlet is connected to a 15A breaker, it can only output 1650 watts - and that goes to all loads on that circuit, so you're sharing that available power with anything else that's in use. Many of the larger wheels now available can be charged at 15A, so this is something to be aware of especially if you have an older home with 15A breakers or charge where power may be shared by others (at a restaurant etc.). For this reason, I tend not to charge at more than 10A at public places.

This 'charger' (yes, it's actually a modified server power supply so it's NOT NEW) is fairly compact and has some obvious advantages over other chargers, but if you're thinking of throwing it in your pack to charge 'on the road', keep in mind that it may not be your best option. It's not quite as durable as other chargers - it is a USED modified PSU after all, so it was designed to be bolted to a rack and stay there, not jostled about in a backpack etc. Also, compared to my 100.8V (single-voltage) 'fast charger', which is switchable between 5A and 10A of output current, it's quite heavy. You read that correctly - the adjustable charger is physically smaller than my 100.8V 10A fast charger, but it weighs quite a lot more (1.572kg or 3.46lbs for the 10A charger, and 2.192kg or 4.82lbs for the adjustable voltage charger). Given that it's also possible (maybe even likely?) that the voltage adjustment knob might get rotated slightly while jostling around in your pack, it would be wise to bring a small voltmeter to check before charging. For these reasons, I'll be using my original 10A charger on long rides instead of bringing my "Roger charger".

Just a few things to keep in mind. I'm not saying it's not a fantastic piece of hardware to have - just be aware of its limitations.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Mantraguy

[stephen]

could you charge the new veteran Patton up at 13 amps how long would it take to charge?

it's 2200wh I believe 

[Poker]

I'm having trouble navigating aliexpress, could someone link me a adjustable charger for

84-134.4V DC

0-20A

for a 230V AC supply?

Alternatively tell me what search phrases to use to get relevant results

@KiwiMark where did you find the 20A charger option and are you happy with it so far?

[RagingGrandpa]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:24 PM, meriwald said:

 https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803192582939.html

It gives 15A at 140VDC.
There is no charger for 20A @ 140VDC; and no current EUC that could accept 20A either.

[CDINPHX]

On 1/12/2023 at 7:50 AM, RagingGrandpa said:

FYI, California rider Roger Hajali distributes these with appropriate cables for EUC, for the USA customers:

And AlienRides seems to have joined the party too:

The power supplies that come from Aliexpress are "pulls," used equipment removed from other installations.
Hopefully these USA resellers are making it clear when the item for sale is a used/recycled/not-newly-made product... 

Going to presume that the AR version is likely a rebranded one. I thought there was a thread on here about their carbon knee/shin guards that someone found the same model on aliexpress, can't seem to find it though. Judging from the image they just shrink wrapped whatever they bought and stuck a label on it as it looks darn similar to the other ones. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by CDINPHX

[KiwiMark]

On 4/21/2023 at 10:21 PM, Poker said:

@KiwiMark where did you find the 20A charger option and are you happy with it so far?

I got one that offered custom voltage/amps so I asked for 1-20A and 30-140V.

I bought this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001460901037.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.64.21ef18023fFmzP

I only have 100V wheels though, I wanted up to 140V for future-proofing more than anything, so I haven't tested out the 'up to 140V' part. The charger does work well though and happily charges my Sherman S at 12A and gets it up to the full 100.8V easily enough.

[DPowell]

https://alienrides.com/collections/134v/products/hyper-charger

Finally figured out how to use the damn thing.  Their instructions suck.  I haven't seen any information on it in the forum.

 

This is for the new version with only one knob.

1. Plug the charger into power, not into your wheel, yet.

2.  Set the current first.  Looking at it from the display, double press the knob in the back.  Rotate the knob counter clockwise from the perspective as if you were looking at the knob, until you notice the voltage on the display dropping.

3.  Then actually look at the knob, look for the little notch in the knob and then rotate it clockwise one full rotation from where you noticed the knob was pointing. 

4.  Press the knob once.  This is supposed to set the current for one amp.  

5. You should now be in voltage adjust mode.  Rotate the knob for the voltage that you want the charger to stop at.

6.  Press the knob to lock in that voltage and you should be in current adjust mode.

7.  Plug in the charger to your wheel and use the knob to adjust the current to your desired level.

 

If anyone has recommendations to tidy up the instructions or correct me, feel free.  I'm just glad to be able to finally use the device.  Alien Rides was gonna charge me a shipping label and 10% restocking fee just to return it.   Their tech support leaves alot to be desired from the support they offered me when I contacted them.

I saw a video for the Roger Charger and that kind of helped with me trying to figure it out, but it is a slightly different version that uses two knobs.

I don't know how they thought it was a good idea to sell this thing without bumpers.  ugg

Edited June 20, 2023 by RagingGrandpa
(clarified url)

[phamus1]

I'm about to order one of the chargers on aliexpress. Could some of you who have had it for awhile chime in with a performance review? Thnx!

[CDINPHX]

I just bought bought the roger charger. I seriously looked at the aliexpress ones mainly due to the price. However I don’t get any support buying from aliexpress, well in my experience with buying from them.  Im sure others have different experiences. 
 

now I could buy two for the price I paid, however roger will at least support you and provide feedback/etc. And im sure if there was an issue he would help you out versus leaving you hanging. Or at least that is my impression of him. And it’s likely Roger gets them from the same spot and I have zero issue with the guy making some money on the side. 
 

plus the new version allows you to have 4 preset voltages. For those of you whom have multiple wheels or scooters or  are buying another (maybe inmotion adv when it comes out) and a Segway scooter(it’s become an addiction) you just need one charger instead of a bunch of bricks on the counter. 

[alcatraz]

The best wheels to quick charge are those with large packs and/or high current cells.

Just thought I'd mention it before someone with standard high capacity cells (Samsung 50E, LG M50LT) in a 0-2400Wh pack tries to charge with 15-20A. It's likely not going to work, and probably would cause damage.

Even for larger packs it's best to not be the first guy to do it because the bms might not be up to it. It probably wasn't tested with every sort of fast charging at the factory.

There are different degrees of fast chargers. These in this thread are the fastest ones out there. Meant for midride charging. Not so much home charging long term (unless dialed down).

A 15A charger is ~5 times faster than a 3A. If you want to cut down home charging times then first try 6A etc which is twice as fast.

Edited June 29, 2023 by alcatraz

[RagingGrandpa]

It's a ratio.

The C-rating is the same as the wh rating, which everyone knows well. 
3600wh means: the C-rating is "3600 watts for one hour".

Don't exceed 0.5C recharging, since we don't have temperature monitoring.
(Charging faster could overheat the cells, causing stress & degradation.)
"One-half of the C-rating" means bulk-current recharging will be finished in 2 hours. "Delivering one-half of the total capacity per hour." 
Said another way: recharging any EUC from 0% to 90% faster than 2 hours is not recommended.

      0.5C for 3600wh is simply 1800 watts. 
      1800 watts @ 134V is 13 amps (Commander Pro) 
      1800 watts @ 100V is 18 amps (MP24; Shermans)

      For 2200wh, 0.5C is simply 1100 watts.
      1100 watts @ 126V is 8 amps (S22; Patton)

      For 4800wh, 0.5C is simply 2400 watts.
      You can't draw 2400 watts from a USA 120VAC household circuit, so this will be for >220V sources only.
      2400 watts @ 134V is 17 amps (Master P)

Charging rates up to 20 amps are reasonable when using two double-pinned charging connectors (4 parallel circuits). Be sure to study and understand your charging circuit before exceeding 5 amps. 

 

And then for overnight charging where speed isn't important, it's nicer for the cells to recharge at 0.25 C.
It means 4 hours of bulk delivery plus an extra hour of saturation. 
0.25C for 3600wh is 900w, etc.
 

Edited June 29, 2023 by RagingGrandpa

[Paradox]

1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

For 2200wh, 0.5C is simply 1200 watts.

Shouldn't this be 1100 watts?

[RagingGrandpa]

haha whoops, I showed 2400 then revised to 2200wh, forgot the impact analysis...