Enough is Enough

[Funky]

The market as whole is just dumb. People aren't far of being dumb also. (Sorry - not sorry, i call how it is.)  

We keep pre-ordering, exspecting getting out of box working wheels. But we already know.. EVERY single new wheel has first/second batch problems. Same for subpar build quality and right out not working as intended wheels. Yet we keep buying them. And by buying we keep saying: "it's okay, keep selling us subpar wheels" - we are used to that now.. But it's not right at all!

Same for market.. It seems we have forgot what EUC was meant to be - Last mileage device. You can't call them that anymore. EUC's are now fully blown substitute for car/motorcycle for some. Don't get me wrong - i love that!!! But manufacturers going bigger and bigger are simply wrong.. Same time quality goes down. They should think how to increase speed/power, but same time make the wheels lighter. We are going over ~110lbs already. How far will we go? At what speed/weight we will say it's enough?

I can't be the only one who thinks like that? 

I got a question for you all.. What speed/weight/range would your ideal wheel be? And how much $$$ would it cost? (Try to be as realistic as possible in these 4 stats. - Thanks.)

 

My ideal wheel: 40mph(65kph) ~55lbs(~25kg) 50miles(80km).

Extra specs: 18x3" tire. No suspension. Water rating. Real smart BMS. No LCD screen. Metal inner frame. 2500-3000$

[MrEUCMan]

My ideal wheel: 100mph, 5 lbs, Solar powered / infinite miles.

Extra specs: Hover engine / no tire. No need suspension, see hover engine. Water rating / no need, see hover engine. Smartest BMS. No LCD screen but a ton of LEDs because RAVE. Titanium inner frame. $40. Oh, and must come in mat black.

[RetroThruster]

Agree 100%!!

I've got deposits on the Mten4 and Begode T4, I'm seriously considering pulling my deposit on the T4 and applying it to the Mten4, I have anxiety with new wheels but am willing to take the risk with the Mten at it's price point, I have an Abrams which I'm not too scared of but that wheel dropped in value like a rock.

Ideal for me is pretty much my Nik+ ( upgraded w/molicel) but could be an inch thinner and 10lbs lighter just for loading and unloading sake, 50 mile range and lastly, I'm okay with the $2k price tag but that's being a little generous, a few hundred less would be nice but I'm not complaining..  

Edited October 14, 2022 by RetroThruster

[GoGeorgeGo]

On 10/13/2022 at 11:32 AM, Funky said:

The market as whole is just dumb. People aren't far of being dumb also. (Sorry - not sorry, i call how it is.)  

We keep pre-ordering, exspecting getting out of box working wheels. But we already know.. EVERY single new wheel has first/second batch problems. Same for subpar build quality and right out not working as intended wheels. Yet we keep buying them. And by buying we keep saying: "it's okay, keep selling us subpar wheels" - we are used to that now.. But it's not right at all!

Same for market.. It seems we have forgot what EUC was meant to be - Last mileage device. You can't call them that anymore. EUC's are now fully blown substitute for car/motorcycle for some. Don't get me wrong - i love that!!! But manufacturers going bigger and bigger are simply wrong.. Same time quality goes down. They should think how to increase speed/power, but same time make the wheels lighter. We are going over ~110lbs already. How far will we go? At what speed/weight we will say it's enough?

I can't be the only one who thinks like that? 

I got a question for you all.. What speed/weight/range would your ideal wheel be? And how much $$$ would it cost? (Try to be as realistic as possible in these 4 stats. - Thanks.)

 

My ideal wheel: 40mph(65kph) ~55lbs(~25kg) 50miles(80km).

Extra specs: 18x3" tire. No suspension. Water rating. Real smart BMS. No LCD screen. Metal inner frame. 2500-3000$

my one wheeled motorcycle and your last mile commuter device are not the same machine. much in the same way my kids bicycle and my uncles harley are not the same machine. just because you see a form factor doesnt mean its only meant to be used for one task. 

the market has clearly spoken, last mile commuters dont sell as well as full blown transportation replacements. sidewalk crawling toys are not as popular as trail blazing road warriors. 

once wheels stop evolving so rapidly, you will start to see build quality re-enter the top priority of buying decisions. we are just at the beginning of late stage unicycle development. give it another 3 or 4 years and suddenly manufacturers wont be able to get away with sub par build quality. at least not until we see a serious breakthrough in batteries or something major like that to once again push us into another exponential development curve

 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

my one wheeled motorcycle and your last mile commuter device are not the same machine. much in the same way my kids bicycle and my uncles harley are not the same machine. just because you see a form factor doesnt mean its only meant to be used for one task. 

the market has clearly spoken, last mile commuters dont sell as well as full blown transportation replacements. sidewalk crawling toys are not as popular as trail blazing road warriors. 

once wheels stop evolving so rapidly, you will start to see build quality re-enter the top priority of buying decisions. we are just at the beginning of late stage unicycle development. give it another 3 or 4 years and suddenly manufacturers wont be able to get away with sub par build quality. at least not until we see a serious breakthrough in batteries or something major like that to once again push us into another exponential development curve

 

That's the problem. We are not getting any new commuter/bicycles/toys. Aka your sidewalk "crawlers" if you can call them that.. 20/30mph is fast. Electric scooters can't even legally go faster than ~15mph.  (Lucky we don't have laws yet..)

3 or 4 years of what??? More heavy, more speed? What evolving is there? I think there is none. Most places have been already covered. Speed - covered. Range - covered. Adding another 5-10mph top speed, another battery pack, ~20lbs isn't anything "special".

Only thing i can see happening is even bigger wheel coming out. Like +20% speed/range/weight - something like that. Big Wuff.. aka Master pro league v2. Sherman max-max. V14. S23 spaghetti.  

Jesus - forget about street riding for one second.. Then you will understand me. And my viewpoint.

Commuter market are simply forgotten..

Edited October 15, 2022 by Funky

[Barefooter]

The issue will likely become moot after a big "accident" caused by a selfish EUC rider in a crowded space injures one or more pedestrians and/or cyclists when the heavy wheel goes canon balling through people.

[GoGeorgeGo]

30 minutes ago, Funky said:

That's the problem. We are not getting any new commuter/bicycles/toys. Aka your sidewalk "crawlers" if you can call them that.. 20/30mph is fast. Electric scooters can't even legally go faster than ~15mph.  (Lucky we don't have laws yet..)

3 or 4 years of what??? More heavy, more speed? What evolving is there? I think there is none. Most places have been already covered. Speed - covered. Range - covered. Adding another 5-10mph top speed, another battery pack, ~20lbs isn't anything "special".

Only thing i can see happening is even bigger wheel coming out. Like +20% speed/range/weight - something like that. Big Wuff.. aka Master pro league v2. Sherman max-max. V14. S23 spaghetti.  

Jesus - forget about street riding for one second.. Then you will understand me. And my viewpoint.

Commuter market are simply forgotten..

thats what your not understanding. the market has spoken. street wheels sell, little wheels don't.

there plenty of innovation left, the most recent batch of wheels all introduced new voltages, new battery sizes, new suspension setups, new bms configurations, new cell choices, new form factors. to say there is no more innovation is silly. we are still in the raw stages of what a wheel will look like in 10 years.

redundant control boards, high end BMS, actual weatherproofing. there is plenty more growth coming to street wheels. 

even simple things like pads pedals and seats are all currently sold by third party community members. the companys have not even spent any time on peripherals yet

if sidewalk crawlers sold, they would be making them. the reality is that market prefers more stable rides like scooters and onewheels. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by GoGeorgeGo

[meepmeepmayer]

Warning, semi-offtopic rant incoming. I put it into a spoiler to not distract from the original topic. (This entire rant is not directed at you, Funky! Directed at lobbying against car alternatives.)

Spoiler

On 10/13/2022 at 5:32 PM, Funky said:

It seems we have forgot what EUC was meant to be - Last mileage device.

NO!

I hate this argument, meant to disparage small electric vehicles as toys and sideshows and as inconsequential to transportation, and it is wrong.

If you order transportation options by speed , there is a huge gap between walking/bicycle and cars/motorbikes. Yes, there are scooters (the classic kind) - but they have been purposely regulated to death (so everyone has to buy a car if they want to get serious), like having a lower speed limit than even the general speed limit in cities (45kph vs. 50kph, what else do I need to say). That's why they are rare everywhere unless there are space constraints (e.g. Italy, Asia) that disallow cars.

Electric unicycles, like all other PEVS - ebikes, electric (kick)scooters, etc. can fill this niche and go beyond what a bicycle can do. You don't want to commute 25km one way by bike, it takes too long to be convenient every day. But if your PEV can go 40kph or 60kph or 80kph, suddenly it's an option (and you don't need a car). And suddenly you easily want 50km of range.

Looking at two-wheeled vehicles, the spectrum from pedal assist electric bicycle to electric motorbikes is completely fluid, you can build a device that is ideal for every speed in between. You can easily build a device for relaxed bike path rides one day and 80-100kph on the highway the next day, a device that looks at home in both places.

SO DON'T F***ING GIVE ME STUPID EXCUSES ABOUT LAST MILE CRAP!!

You can use any PEV for the last mile, and you can build PEVs for the last mile. But just like with cars - do people buy extra "small city cars", or do they just drive their truck/SUV everywhere, because it does everything they want to do anyways? The answer should tell you all about the viability of so-called "last mile devices".

-

I fully agree with your post (except the quoted sentence), because your numbers are very right. What you call "last mile" I would call "performance EUC". The "last mile" car enforcers think about something like 20kph speed limit plus some ridiculously low motor power rating so you can't even get up a hill (this isn't theoretical, this is what they did to escooters here in Germany) that intentionally makes PEVs useless. So I'm going to nip any "last mile" talk in the bud.

Yes, EUC quality is awful. Yes, EUCs are getting too heavy compared to what would be possible (some weight may still be needed for really fast EUCs and I don't mind if that is the case). Yes, some modern smaller/lighter alternatives would be nice. All correct.

But keep the "last mile" nonsense out of this! Enough is enough You yourself say it:

On 10/13/2022 at 5:32 PM, Funky said:

It seems we have forgot what EUC was meant to be - Last mileage device.

Exactly! Wonderful!

(And the market has still spoken about what people buy).

Rant over

 

-

My ideal wheel: 35kg or less please (25kg plz?), as much range as humanly possible (3600+Wh battery), suspension (I'm too old and wimpy for no-suspension), I don't care much about speed and 60kph/40mph is easily more than I'll personally ever want, it's going to be a given with such a wheel.

Oh yea, and anything over $3000€ is too much. Honestly, even over 2000 is. Look what you get for the same amount of money in other vehicles.

Plus for the rare case when I really need to get to a train or something, an IPS i5 -like wheel that you can easily carry with you. Built for carrying first and riding second.

Edited October 15, 2022 by meepmeepmayer

[Cerbera]

On 10/13/2022 at 4:32 PM, Funky said:

My ideal wheel: 40mph(65kph) ~55lbs(~25kg) 50miles(80km).

Yes that for me too please. The MS3 was close to it, but lacking the speed.

Now can we have those sort of weights and still suspension ? Cos that IS a game changer, and I don't wanna go back to non-suspension wheel ever again !

 

[Funky]

25 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

thats what your not understanding. the market has spoken. street wheels sell, little wheels don't.

there plenty of innovation left, the most recent batch of wheels all introduced new voltages, new battery sizes, new suspension setups, new bms configurations, new cell choices, new form factors. to say there is no more innovation is silly. we are still in the raw stages of what a wheel will look like in 10 years.

redundant control boards, high end BMS, actual weatherproofing. there is plenty more growth coming to street wheels. 

even simple things like pads pedals and seats are all currently sold by third party community members. the companys have not even spent any time on peripherals yet

if sidewalk crawlers sold, they would be making them. the reality is that market prefers more stable rides like scooters and onewheels. 

Again missing my point. And saying "market" has spoken.. Spoken how? Market only have 65lbs+ wheels nothing light... How the heck can it speak, if there are only heavy wheels in market. DOH.. All new releases are heavy. So you can forget about saying "market" have spoken.

And most people will ignore older wheels from before 2020. Because adding ~10lbs and getting something like T4 is much better deal. VS anything in ~55lbs weight. Not very hard to understand that logic. And most lights - are the most oldest modes like V8's, etc.. That have not been made/updated past how many years.

Yes wheels can "evolve" - they can get better in every single way. But will they - thats the real question.. Saving $$$ on each corner, you won't get much of a better wheels like that.

I bet Mten4 is selling pretty well, even having horrible 11" wheel.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Funky

[Funky]

27 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Warning, semi-offtopic rant incoming. (This entire rant is not directed at you, Funky! Directed at lobbying against car alternatives.)

NO!

I hate this argument, meant to disparage small electric vehicles as toys and sideshows and as inconsequential to transportation, and it is wrong.

If you order transportation options by speed , there is a huge gap between walking/bicycle and cars/motorbikes. Yes, there are scooters (the classic kind) - but they have been purposely regulated to death (so everyone has to buy a car if they want to get serious), like having a lower speed limit than even the general speed limit in cities (45kph vs. 50kph, what else do I need to say). That's why they are rare everywhere unless there are space constraints (e.g. Italy, Asia) that disallow cars.

Electric unicycles, like all other PEVS - ebikes, electric (kick)scooters, etc. can fill this niche and go beyond what a bicycle can do. You don't want to commute 25km one way by bike, it takes too long to be convenient every day. But if your PEV can go 40kph or 60kph or 80kph, suddenly it's an option (and you don't need a car). And suddenly you easily want 50km of range.

Looking at two-wheeled vehicles, the spectrum from pedal assist electric bicycle to electric motorbikes is completely fluid, you can build a device that is ideal for every speed in between. You can easily build a device for relaxed bike path rides one day and 80-100kph on the highway the next day, a device that looks at home in both places.

SO DON'T F***ING GIVE ME STUPID EXCUSES ABOUT LAST MILE CRAP!!

You can use any PEV for the last mile, and you can build PEVs for the last mile. But just like with cars - do people buy extra "small city cars", or do they just drive their truck/SUV everywhere, because it does everything they want to do anyways? The answer should tell you all about the viability of so-called "last mile devices".

-

I fully agree with your post (except the quoted sentence), because your numbers are very right. What you call "last mile" I would call "performance EUC". The "last mile" car enforcers think about something like 20kph speed limit plus some ridiculously low motor power rating so you can't even get up a hill (this isn't theoretical, this is what they did to escooters here in Germany) that intentionally makes PEVs useless. So I'm going to nip any "last mile" talk in the bud.

Yes, EUC quality is awful. Yes, EUCs are getting too heavy compared to what would be possible (some weight may still be needed for really fast EUCs and I don't mind if that is the case). Yes, some modern smaller/lighter alternatives would be nice. All correct.

But keep the "last mile" nonsense out of this! Enough is enough You yourself say it:

Exactly! Wonderful!

(And the market has still spoken about what people buy).

Rant over

-

My ideal wheel: 35kg or less please (25kg plz?), as much range as humanly possible (3600+Wh battery), suspension (I'm too old and wimpy for no-suspension), I don't care much about speed and 60kph/40mph is easily more than I'll personally ever want, it's going to be a given with such a wheel.

Oh yea, and anything over $3000€ is too much. Honestly, even over 2000 is. Look what you get for the same amount of money in other vehicles.

Plus for the rare case when I really need to get to a train or something, an IPS i5 -like wheel that you can easily carry with you. Built for carrying first and riding second.

I mostly said:

It seems we have forgot what EUC was meant to be - Last mileage device.

- when all the "light" wheels where made. You know those 45lbs and under.. Then those wheels where that. It's so sad that those wheels aren't made anymore. I understand what you mean. Even V13 can do the slow rides on sidewalk at 20mph. Riding to corner store to get milk or a snack.

But would you want V13/Master/T4 for small errand run? Logging down multiple floors of stairs to simply drive ~3miles.

-It would be simply in all matter "overkill". From my viewpoint - all the new wheels are "overkill". That's why i would gladly sacrifice range/speed/performance for lighter wheel. Even 18xl is "overkill" in range department. But speed/weight is fine. But it could be better..

Edited October 15, 2022 by Funky

[meepmeepmayer]

Yea we all want the same thing really. Some non-crazy (heavy, expensive) wheels with all the bells and whistles, for those who want/need them.

That may be hard because, as a manufacturer, if you need a motor, board, shell, etc. anyways, you might as well build a crazy wheel right away. The savings on a more normal wheel are going to be disproportionally bad, and the majority of people will go for big models then.

4 minutes ago, Funky said:

But would you want V13/Master/T4 for small errand run? Logging down multiple floors of stairs to simply drive ~3miles.

For 3 miles I'll want a "real" EUC, especially if it's a regular ride. So T4 or V13 - not much difference. It's going to be an obstacle at your destination either way, or neither of them will be. Not worth buying an MCM5 (for example) for that, at least to me. If one has 5 flights of stairs, maybe, but most people don't.

That's the issue I think: super light and easy to carry, or big wheel. The middle between is disadvantaged compared to those two. Financially (cost to produce), and in what people can do with them.

(And everyone wants lower prices and better quality overall.)

[Funky]

39 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Yes that for me too please. The MS3 was close to it, but lacking the speed.

Now can we have those sort of weights and still suspension ? Cos that IS a game changer, and I don't wanna go back to non-suspension wheel ever again !

 

Add ~6lbs and you could get that. But sadly sidewalk crawlers don't sell..  (If they were even made in first place. "Looking disgustedly" at all newly released wheels.)

Edited October 15, 2022 by Funky

[Funky]

17 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yea we all want the same thing really. Some non-crazy (heavy, expensive) wheels with all the bells and whistles, for those who want/need them.

That may be hard because, as a manufacturer, if you need a motor, board, shell, etc. anyways, you might as well build a crazy wheel right away. The savings on a more normal wheel are going to be disproportionally bad, and the majority of people will go for big models then.

For 3 miles I'll want a "real" EUC, especially if it's a regular ride. So T4 or V13 - not much difference. It's going to be an obstacle at your destination either way, or neither of them will be. Not worth buying an MCM5 (for example) for that, at least to me. If one has 5 flights of stairs, maybe, but most people don't.

That's the issue I think: super light and easy to carry, or big wheel. The middle between is disadvantaged compared to those two. Financially (cost to produce), and in what people can do with them.

(And everyone wants lower prices and better quality overall.)

Yeah greed is powerful... Makes everything in world so peachy and swell.  

 

And if you did only 3 mile trips daily?(5 miles most) I bet you would like that MCM5 better then. (Especial if you need to carry 2-4 times down 3rd/4th floor.) At least in my country, we mostly have apartment buildings.. So i don't really see anyone here keeping V13/Master as their wheel.  Ofc if they don't mind logging it around.

I personally could manage with T4/V12. But would i need it.. Not really. I would be happy with ks16s, but sadly because of my weight and at what speed i would like to ride - it would be unsafe.

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Funky

[meepmeepmayer]

1 minute ago, Funky said:

And if you did only 3 mile trips daily?(5 miles most) I bet you would like that MCM5 better then. (Especial if you need to carry 2-4 times down 3rd/4th floor.) At least in my country we mostly have apartment buildings.. So i don't really see anyone here keeping V13/Master as their wheel.  Ofc if they don't mind logging it around.

I personally could manage with T4/V12. But would i need it.. Not really. I would be happy with ks16s, but sadly because of my weight and at what speed i would like to ride - it would be unsafe.

Good point! Hard to say. You can surely do such a commute with any wheel.

But my gut tells me I'd personally still want at least a 16x3 tire (e.g. T4) for daily comfort (and speed! and being stable a that speed!). I'd lug the thing up and down stairs for it. (Or maybe not, who knows, it might be too tedious.)

I think that's a good distinction to make. Convenience when riding vs. convenience when not riding.

Fundamentally, personally, what like about the big wheels is that they go for convenience when riding over the rest. In the end, I think this is what counts more. But you can easily be in a situation where you have some concrete limits on convencience when not riding, and these are hard limits then. And it's no excuse for overpriced, overweight EUCs or a lack of state-of-the-art middle options either.

Side note: Funny how a light-ish wheel today would be the heavy top-performer of 5 years ago (25kg, 18-20 inch tire, over 1000Wh battery).

[Funky]

Heck, i will say.. I like the "performance" that new wheels have. But for some they are simply overkill. And simply wasted performance, money spent. It would be the same as buying sport car and riding slowly down town..

Is there anything wrong by doing that? No.. He/she paid for what he/she wanted. It's their money - they do what they want.

But that's the thing. You got "options" You can buy small two door smart car. Soccer mom suv. 4x4 monster truck. List goes on.. In EUC'S you don't have much of a option from choosing, all new models 65+ lbs. Or very old 30-55 lbs models. Which don't get any love at all. (By love i mean making new wheels in that performance/weight class.)

Not much of an options. Especially if you don't want an "older" model. I guess going from 55 lbs wheel to 65 isn't "much" of change. But going from 35lbs to 65lbs is big difference.

Yeah it's kinda fun to see all the new powerful wheels get released. But same time for some very sad.. As we don't get anything "new" 

[John Jones]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Not much of an options. Especially if you don't want an "older" model. I guess going from 55 lbs wheel to 65 isn't "much" of change. But going from 35lbs to 65lbs is big difference.

I thought this too would affect my riding. I rode 2 16Ss for a year.  (42 Lbs)
I wanted “more umph” so I got a Nikola2700 (63 Lbs), then 3 weeks later I bought an OG Sherman at 77 Lbs.

I thought whoa, 66 pounds! I may have to re-learn some things. She just sits there looking pretty. 🛞😀👽

Then the Sherman, I got used to it fast enough. Couple unassisted starts and it was… AWESOME. 77 pounds really seemed almost like a natural progression.

I wouldn’t have believed it possible if you told me going from 42 to 77 Lbs would be seamless

[Funky]

28 minutes ago, John Jones said:

I thought this too would affect my riding. I rode 2 16Ss for a year.  (42 Lbs)
I wanted “more umph” so I got a Nikola2700 (63 Lbs), then 3 weeks later I bought an OG Sherman at 77 Lbs.

I thought whoa, 66 pounds! I may have to re-learn some things. She just sits there looking pretty. 🛞😀👽

Then the Sherman, I got used to it fast enough. Couple unassisted starts and it was… AWESOME. 77 pounds really seemed almost like a natural progression.

I wouldn’t have believed it possible if you told me going from 42 to 77 Lbs would be seamless

We aren't talking about "riding"...  

I learned on ks16s and going to 18xl - i didn't need to "relearn" anything. Simply hopped on and went. Same for my dad. He tried my 18xl without any problems.

We are talking about ease of carrying these wheels around. Up down fifth floor. Being weaker human overall. Or an older.. Ease of transporting while being unpowered.

And mostly the case that there aren't any "light" wheels being made anymore...

Edited October 15, 2022 by Funky

[Cerbera]

3 hours ago, John Jones said:

I wouldn’t have believed it possible if you told me going from 42 to 77 Lbs would be seamless

For me it definitely bloody wasn't possible !! I got nearly 7000 hour XP on smaller wheels, and it was almost like starting again for the first day on the master. My supporting leg was just not primed for anything like that weight, and I didn't initially have the musculature to get up on it and still keep it stable ! I mean it's only 2 or 3 days to sort it out, but I couldn't call it seamless no matter how kindly I looked on my efforts  

I remember feeling a bit like this when I went from tight zippy little 14 inch airwheel to MS3, except the getting up thing, which was the same.

I am fairly sure in less than a month I will be zipping about on that just like I was the MSuper. But I don't think I will ever stop considering going on out on the master or a heavy wheel like it to be much more of a 'mission' if you see what I mean... and if I had to regularly lift it anywhere that would seriously upset my day, and possibly permanently warp my spine !!

Edited October 15, 2022 by Cerbera

[John Jones]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

We aren't talking about "riding"...  

I learned on ks16s and going to 18xl - i didn't need to "relearn" anything. Simply hopped on and went. Same for my dad. He tried my 18xl without any problems.

We are talking about ease of carrying these wheels around. Up down fifth floor. Being weaker human overall. Or an older.. Ease of transporting while being unpowered.

And mostly the case that there aren't any "light" wheels being made anymore...

Yep, them fuckers are **heavy**

[Funky]

1 hour ago, John Jones said:

Yep, them fuckers are **heavy**

I personally am fine with 55-70lbs wheel. I'm not in any way "muscular". But i can carry one handed that weight with ease. I hate wheels which you need "TWO" hands to carry - those are simply overkill for my needs.

But still having as light as possible is always a win in my book.

Gotway already showed that "70mph - 25kg(55lbs)" wheel. So yes! Having powerful and same time light wheel is possible.

 

It could be "slower" and even "lighter"  With right battery configuration.

[LightWave]

I agree @Funky I'm a problem solver by nature and because of my educational background / philosophies / theories etc so I'm always trying to get to the core of any issue instead of just looking at it from a consumer point of view. EUC's being made overseas is my biggest complaint. We should be designing and manufacturing all future tech right in North America period. The first reason is, EUC's are not being made for our climate with rain and snow etc. I've also been noticing all the testers for the V13 are really small in size, they look like kids maybe 120lbs! We wonder why wheels like the v11 cut out going over a little speed bump, rims breaking and axles made of cast iron shattering just by jumping off little cubs...

 

[samzed]

to the original poster, funky: Yes, I have certainly thought about this before. I rationalized it a little different, thinking that euc riding appeals to a really broad range of people. When I first started riding my used ks14d that I bought on ebay for $400, that was absolutely all I could afford. Now I have spent another $3200 on my obliterated v10f and my new z10. I took a really big chance on the z10, thankfully it has been great. So now I am telling myself that I won't spend anymore money on electric unicycles! Then there are the testers who get to evaluate the new technology for free. And there are people that really can afford to take a chance on a $4000 euc. I think the inmotion v8 is probably as perfect as perfect can be, even though it's still outrageously expensive @ $1200. That's enough for a cheap car.

[alcatraz]

I think we're slowly moving towards modular wheels (if you look at S22 and begode suspension you can kind of see the resemblance). 

If battery capacities can vary then motors can maybe start to vary too.

Make a board compatible with a few different motors. HS, HT, lightweight.

Perhaps then everyone can configure the wheel they want.

If they want a lightweight 18 inch suspension with a massive pack they can. If they want a 16in high speed with a small battery they can. 

[alcatraz]

A heavy climber has totally different needs than a lightweight cruiser.