Smaller wheels - will they ever make a comeback?

[Milordas]

On 10/17/2023 at 5:46 PM, Funky said:

So.. Anyone have heard any rumors about any new lightweight (sub ~20kg ~45lbs) wheels coming to market?

There where rumors about KS-S14 coming.. But who know if, or when it will show up. Aside of it - anything else at all?

 

I kind of want new wheel..  Aside of Begode A2, there really isn't anything.. (If you don't count the 20XX-2018 models. Of course there's nothing wrong with them. I just don't want to exchange one old model for another old model.)

 

Side note: When will they stop ignoring lightweight market? And start making new models? Every single manufacturer have released more than 3 top notch performing wheels in past 1-2 years. But where's the lightweight? And i don't care the "market have spoken" ordeal. It hasn't! They keep making only big wheels - naturally they will only sell.. Because nothing lightweight is been made - nothing is being sold in that category. Again if you ignore older models. And even if you don't ignore. Most people want something new and shiny. Not an old model. Especially if the new models have real smart BMS, water rating and things like that.

 

TL;DR - I want new lightweight wheels. 

even 16s is better then A2, power, range etc.. Just my opinion. 16s is upgraded with spiked pedals and power pads, i like it

[Funky]

51 minutes ago, Milordas said:

even 16s is better then A2, power, range etc.. Just my opinion. 16s is upgraded with spiked pedals and power pads, i like it

Speck wise yeah.. And at 22kg you can get regular KS18L which is 18", 2200W motor and 31mph top speed. 2kg extra and you gain so much.

For what A2 is - it's simply to weak. (If only they didn't just take Mten4 motor and put it in A2..) Only selling point it has: big/fat tire, cool design, awesome pedals.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Funky

[Circuitmage]

17 hours ago, Funky said:

You MAY have screwed the handle screws to tightly - it doesn't move/slide.. My dad did the same thing on his KS16S, the handle didn't want to go back in position - he had to hit it in..

@Funky I looked at that a couple times about 2 years ago. Initially I was told the screws might be too loose. I checked the screws on the bracket holding the rails up, no issues and the bottom screw for the sensor/spring. No issues.

It seems more like a mechanical problem. Even though the screws on the brackets are set right, the rails are very loose and the top button does not engage the release correctly. Also, as I slide the rails down, they don't line up right, so I have to jiggle them into place just to lower the rails. Raising the handle is not a problem, but pushing them down is redick.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Circuitmage

[RagingGrandpa]

On 10/17/2023 at 10:46 AM, Funky said:

TL;DR - I want new lightweight wheels. 

Naw, you don't...

[Phonoman]

50 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Naw, you don't...

They weren't joking when they said be careful what you wish for.  

[Funky]

15 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Naw, you don't...

Yes - yes i do.. But not a kids toy. Doh.. Why can't they get it right! Only two options!!! 2 small or 2 big. No middle ground. 

16". 40km/h. 15-20kg. 1500W motor. ~1000Wh battery = PERFECT. (More wheels like A2, but lil bit stronger motor.)

15 hours ago, Phonoman said:

They weren't joking when they said be careful what you wish for.  

I wish more lightweight wheels. An actual adult wheels! This is a toy for kids.

Heavy wheels are being released on monthly bases.. While lightweight maybe one in 2-3 years? Only Begode has made something lighter. Other manufacturers have made ZERO in past 3-4 years. I'm talking about wheels under 25kg weight. Heck even under 30kg.. Only A2 is an actual wheel made for riding. (Mten4 10" to little to small.)

While some models that where released past 2-3 month are already getting "PRO" versions made. I want A2 "Pro".  

Edited October 26, 2023 by Funky

[Drunkard]

24 minutes ago, Funky said:

16". 40km/h. 15-20kg. 1500W motor. ~1000Wh battery = PERFECT. (More wheels like A2, but lil bit stronger motor.)

And the name should start with V and end with F and have number 10 in the middle?  because I know a wheel like that.

[Funky]

4 hours ago, Drunkard said:

And the name should start with V and end with F and have number 10 in the middle?  because I know a wheel like that.

Old models don't interest me, because i already got one myself.  V10F doesn't give me anything new. (By new - i mean real smart BMS, where you can see each/group cell voltage.. Water rating.. Solid axle.. Screen maybe..) V10F is same thing as my 18XL, just in 16" size.

I mostly was talking about A2, because it's the only new wheel made past 2020 that is lighter than 25kg.. And we need more in that weight class. (Actual wheel - not a toy.)

[skunkmonkey]

Yeah I'd love to see a 16-18" commuter wheel with:

• Modular design, so that tire changes are easy (and for easy attachment of pads)
• Waterproof (IPX6 or better)
• 40-60 real world miles of range
• PWM tiltback
• Under $2,000

Notice that I didn't mention speed? Yep, that's right. Commuters like me aren't speed demons; we don't need to ride 50+mph. 25-35mph is plenty of speed. We care more about safety, reliability, all-weather riding, and ease of maintenance.

[techyiam]

45 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said:

Yeah I'd love to see a 16-18" commuter wheel with:

• Modular design, so that tire changes are easy (and for easy attachment of pads)
• Waterproof (IPX6 or better)
• 40-60 real world miles of range
• PWM tiltback
• Under $2,000

Notice that I didn't mention speed? Yep, that's right. Commuters like me aren't speed demons; we don't need to ride 50+mph. 25-35mph is plenty of speed. We care more about safety, reliability, all-weather riding, and ease of maintenance.

If you want improved quality, waterproofing, and safety features, I am not sure the $2000 will cover it. But 

[skunkmonkey]

43 minutes ago, techyiam said:

If you want improved quality, waterproofing, and safety features, I am not sure the $2000 will cover it. But 

I don't know, the V11Y isn't far off from my wish list. They would just need to rework the design to be more modular. The cost is slightly above my $2,000 wish, but within reason. The V14 is evidence that they are at least thinking along the lines of modularity now.

[techyiam]

26 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said:

I don't know, the V11Y isn't far off from my wish list. They would just need to rework the design to be more modular. The cost is slightly above my $2,000 wish, but within reason. The V14 is evidence that they are at least thinking along the lines of modularity now.

I don't own a V11, so I am not that familiar with how it is to worked on. But from what I read and have seen, the V11 is a difficult wheel to work on. The V14 is a completely different design, and it costs a lot more than $2000.

Additionally, the build quality of the V11 isn't competitive anymore, I believe. I own a V12. And the V12 cannot match up to the newer wheels' build quality that I have seen.

[Funky]

I don't even care if it cost 2000$ or 4000$.

1 more month salary for next ~5years of ridding means jack shit to me. Yup i'm buying wheel for next ~5 years of use. So 2000/4000$ isn't that big of difference.

Heck i would be happy with 30 mile range even. 1554Wh battery i can ride 3 week without a single charge.   I normally charge at ~50% battery, which is every second week. Meaning i charge my wheel ~24 times over year.

 I would take Mten4 over V13 - even if they where same price. Simply for fact i have no need of: Speed/Power/Range/Weight.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Funky

[Hellkitten]

@Funky I realize from reading your countless posts about your future euc needs that the menten lineup doesn’t meet or exceed ALL of your requirements. Have you tried one? I have an 18L and the menten 4 doesn’t ride at all like other smaller wheels. It’s a blast, one of the most fun wheels I’ve ridden within its limits. 

[skunkmonkey]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

But from what I read and have seen, the V11 is a difficult wheel to work on

Yeah. I own a V11, and I absolutely love it. That said, I dread the day I need to do a tire change. It involves completely disassembling and reassembling the entire device. I’m a guy that always has spare parts left over when I try to do that kind of thing, so I’m terrified that I’ll put it back together wrong, or forget to discharge the batteries and toast my board or something. Hence my desire for something like the V11, but modular, so it’s easy to maintain.

I don’t think changing the chassis design, and adding $20 quick connect cables is going to force them to jack up the cost of the wheel. Batteries and motors are where the big expenses are for manufacturers. The V14 has a massively more powerful motor, and almost double the battery compared to the V11.

[techyiam]

49 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said:

I’m a guy that always has spare parts left over when I try to do that kind of thing, so I’m terrified that I’ll put it back together wrong, or forget to discharge the batteries and toast my board or something.

Having spent a little time wrenching the S22, I have to say, it is quite a nice wheel to work on. People have figured out how to remove the wheel quite easily. The V14 may be a bit easier, but I don't think the difference is going to matter much. I think in general, the S22 is a pleasant wheel to work on. Both the Begode T3 and V12 are about the same in terms of difficulty of servicing. But the T3 isn't really designed for servicing; things break easier after a fews times of disassemby. The Abrams is better in comparison, overall. But ultimately, the S22 is the nicest wheel of the wheels I own to work on.

59 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said:

I don’t think changing the chassis design, and adding $20 quick connect cables is going to force them to jack up the cost of the wheel. Batteries and motors are where the big expenses are for manufacturers. The V14 has a massively more powerful motor, and almost double the battery compared to the V11.

I would disagree. Other subsystems cost significant money outside of motor and battery. I haven't seen the V14 in person yet. But I am predicting that it is going to be a refined premium wheel. The build quality is going to be nice. I don't think the V11 can compare.

 

 

[skunkmonkey]

8 hours ago, techyiam said:

Having spent a little time wrenching the S22, I have to say, it is quite a nice wheel to work on

That's great news! I'm glad to hear that companies are being mindful of repairs. Hopefully this is an indication of a trend. That's one thing I give to scooters over EUC's is the ease of maintenance. I still prefer EUC's for the fun factor though.

[Funky]

14 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

@Funky I realize from reading your countless posts about your future euc needs that the menten lineup doesn’t meet or exceed ALL of your requirements. Have you tried one? I have an 18L and the menten 4 doesn’t ride at all like other smaller wheels. It’s a blast, one of the most fun wheels I’ve ridden within its limits. 

Seems like you have not read enough of my countless posts then..  

You're talking about riding like in fun way. I'm talking about ridding euc as a chore. Mten needs completely smooth roads.. And you can forget about riding over railroad tracks. Or gravel road with hand sized potholes.

I don't want a small trick wheel. I want an actual commuter, that is build for commuter. No need to baby the wheel.. Can be ridden in rain, winter, everyday in any environment, be sunny or tornado rainstorms. Also somewhat comfortable. I would like to have 18" wheel, BUT i even know if i want something under 20kg. There will not be made any wheel in 18" in that weight. My best bet is 16", worst case 14" with suspension.

You're talking about "ride feel" - i don't care about that really. To me all euc's are the same. Same as all scooters and regular bicycles - they all are the same. They only offer some little difference over each other: suspension, better built, lighter, cooler, cheaper, more expensive, etc.. If it goes forwards  - i'm happy. More happy if i don't get a cutout and faceplant. < See i care more about how wheel is built. Not about ride quality.  

Same thing when i was choosing between 16x and 18xl. I bought 18xl simply because of better carry handle. 16x3" vs 18x2.5" almost same tire size. I didn't care about that. Most people would tell a fatso like me to get 16x - because it has better torque. But i didn't care about torque. Because i don't accelerate fast.. And have no need for it.

[Hellkitten]

41 minutes ago, Funky said:

Seems like you have not read enough of my countless posts then..  

On the contrary……….

 

42 minutes ago, Funky said:

You're talking about "ride feel" - i don't care about that really. To me all euc's are the same. Same as all scooters and regular bicycles - they all are the same. They only offer some little difference over each other

My bad, I keep forgetting that you hate riding. 😜

[Funky]

10 minutes ago, Hellkitten said:

My bad, I keep forgetting that you hate riding. 😜

Nah not riding in per se. Now life - that's different story. Sure, i can imagine Mten being very "zippy" and very fun to ride. But is it particularly good for daily commuting? I think not. Even for measly ~4km distance.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Funky

[Hellkitten]

3 hours ago, Funky said:

Nah not riding in per se. Now life - that's different story. Sure, i can imagine Mten being very "zippy" and very fun to ride. But is it particularly good for daily commuting? I think not. Even for measly ~4km distance.

Sounds like someone NEEDS more fun in their life………🎉🎉

[rcgldr]

On 10/26/2023 at 5:52 AM, Drunkard said:

And the name should start with V and end with F and have number 10 in the middle?

V10F uses a controller board similar to a V8F, and the fuse is 40 amps limiting it's power. The Kingsong 18L (not 18XL), also has 80 cells (20S4P) pack, but two 30 amp fuses for a total of 60 amps, resulting in more peak power, more speed (or more margin for the same speeds), and only weighs a bit more than the V10F. In the US, I only see some smaller dealers still selling them. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by rcgldr

[Wheel Guy]

On 10/27/2023 at 8:23 PM, Funky said:

Seems like you have not read enough of my countless posts then..  

You're talking about riding like in fun way. I'm talking about ridding euc as a chore. Mten needs completely smooth roads.. And you can forget about riding over railroad tracks. Or gravel road with hand sized potholes.

I don't want a small trick wheel. I want an actual commuter, that is build for commuter. No need to baby the wheel.. Can be ridden in rain, winter, everyday in any environment, be sunny or tornado rainstorms. Also somewhat comfortable. I would like to have 18" wheel, BUT i even know if i want something under 20kg. There will not be made any wheel in 18" in that weight. My best bet is 16", worst case 14" with suspension.

You're talking about "ride feel" - i don't care about that really. To me all euc's are the same. Same as all scooters and regular bicycles - they all are the same. They only offer some little difference over each other: suspension, better built, lighter, cooler, cheaper, more expensive, etc.. If it goes forwards  - i'm happy. More happy if i don't get a cutout and faceplant. < See i care more about how wheel is built. Not about ride quality.  

Same thing when i was choosing between 16x and 18xl. I bought 18xl simply because of better carry handle. 16x3" vs 18x2.5" almost same tire size. I didn't care about that. Most people would tell a fatso like me to get 16x - because it has better torque. But i didn't care about torque. Because i don't accelerate fast.. And have no need for it.

Have you tried the Mten4? It can do jumps, snow, forest roads, gravel, hop curbs etc fine. yes, hitting a big pothole while not ready for it can cause issues but that's true for any non-suspension wheel. I ride over railroad tracks, potholes and rocks on a daily basis with mine.

[Funky]

11 minutes ago, loofv said:

Have you tried the Mten4? It can do jumps, snow, forest roads, gravel, hop curbs etc fine. yes, hitting a big pothole while not ready for it can cause issues but that's true for any non-suspension wheel. I ride over railroad tracks, potholes and rocks on a daily basis with mine.

I'm 280lbs... And i don't really want 10" wheel. 16" is smallest ill go. Or maybe 14" with big/fat tire, which will be same as 16".

I'm more worried about the build quality of Mten4.. A2 has at least thicker steel case. Mten4 can be easily bent.

[Wheel Guy]

On 11/3/2023 at 3:04 PM, Funky said:

I'm 280lbs... And i don't really want 10" wheel. 16" is smallest ill go. Or maybe 14" with big/fat tire, which will be same as 16".

I'm more worried about the build quality of Mten4.. A2 has at least thicker steel case. Mten4 can be easily bent.

ah yeah, then it might be better with something a bit bigger and more powerful. I'm 90kgs and it's been fine, haven't bent the case either despite many falls and crashes.

but the motor is easy to overtorque.