PSA: King Song KS-S22 motor issues, how to identify and fix

[Rollin-on-1]

3 hours ago, Dubardo said:

Am I the only one with this gridning noise?

 

To me, that sounds like the spring on the motor wires vibrating.  Put some tape or plasti-dip on that spring and see if the noise continues.  If it does, then it could be motor issues.  But, to me that sounds different than the other motor noises I've heard.

 

Good luck!  Keep us updated!

[CrossNick]

+1 here, exactly the same grinding sounds after only 20 km (12mi)

[Dubardo]

Another update; some store owner is telling me it's the resonance frequency of the mudguard. All s22 should be doing that a a certain speed.

[Tawpie]

45 minutes ago, Dubardo said:

Another update; some store owner is telling me it's the resonance frequency of the mudguard. All s22 should be doing that a a certain speed.

That should be easy to verify... add some tape and see if it goes away

[Miko.cz]

So, here is my report after reseller fixed knocking sound:

• first appeared: after about 50-70km
• getting a bit worse with time, but still for few km possible ride without any knock
• no any other anomaly, just knock sound

Result:

• left bearing a little bit loosen. Also screws were not tight as they should be
• No debris inside, everything inside checked and OK
• 80km after - no cknocking sound. Solved

Extra discovery :

• Motor has been reopened by KS with really terrible skills and also QC!
• I have photos of original look, some idiot ate two screws heads. Reseller was very surprised as they never saw this in KS wheel and I have a bit of explanation if Im not that idiot who did it.
  Easy to look is on this photo - top right screw almost completely lost hex. Another one on second side of motor too, just not that extreme.
  
• I suspect that this was because of their "fixing" action, my motor have been assembled 6th of March 2022

Fortunatelly reseller was able to fix this (and also one untightable screw - the middle one from 3 in a row that allows to change suspension and height of wheel)

[jrhz06]

3 hours ago, Dubardo said:

Another update; some store owner is telling me it's the resonance frequency of the mudguard. All s22 should be doing that a a certain speed.

Possibly but odd that it doesn’t happen in a few hundred kilometres then starts and only happens under harder acceleration. Hope it’s something that simple.  Mine heads out Monday to the dealer and I’m curious to see what their findings are. I’ll update as soon as I hear back from them.

[Dubardo]

1 hour ago, jrhz06 said:

Possibly but odd that it doesn’t happen in a few hundred kilometres then starts and only happens under harder acceleration. Hope it’s something that simple.  Mine heads out Monday to the dealer and I’m curious to see what their findings are. I’ll update as soon as I hear back from them.

If it's that it's a specific resonant frequency from the mudguard. It's a similar effect to the wobble. I can't do test for 2 weeks. Let's just hope someone finds a way to fix that.

[daniel1234]

13 hours ago, Miko.cz said:

So, here is my report after reseller fixed knocking sound:

• first appeared: after about 50-70km
• getting a bit worse with time, but still for few km possible ride without any knock
• no any other anomaly, just knock sound

Result:

• left bearing a little bit loosen. Also screws were not tight as they should be
• No debris inside, everything inside checked and OK
• 80km after - no cknocking sound. Solved

Extra discovery :

• Motor has been reopened by KS with really terrible skills and also QC!
• I have photos of original look, some idiot ate two screws heads. Reseller was very surprised as they never saw this in KS wheel and I have a bit of explanation if Im not that idiot who did it.
  Easy to look is on this photo - top right screw almost completely lost hex. Another one on second side of motor too, just not that extreme.
  
• I suspect that this was because of their "fixing" action, my motor have been assembled 6th of March 2022

Fortunatelly reseller was able to fix this (and also one untightable screw - the middle one from 3 in a row that allows to change suspension and height of wheel)

 

Absolutely mind-blowing experience, right ? I have feeling that most of S22 was not ridden / or tested before shipping. It is still amazing device with good value(if you invest some more time into it). When you do tyre change - I would personally replace all hub screws immediately for High tension one with different head. And use torque wrench to tighten all of them equally. 

[LeFotografion]

Hi, you said one could add his own experience regarding scraping sound, so here I go: my S22 startet making sounds when moved, it sounded like a metal brush inside the wheel. It occurred after just 6 days of mild riding, is was my first big wheel so I took it slow, and my safety gear hadn't arrived yet. Therefore speed was Capt at 30kmh. I was trying to climb inclines, about 23° maybe, and I felt it suddenly overtorqueing. The app showed just 2000w peak usage, I did this little climb 5 times before just fine. I checked if it could still ride, I did a freespin test just to see if the noise gets louder, everything seemed fine. The noise just stayed quite, I didn't worryed about it to much.

1,5km later the wheel had a cut off, dropped me at 26kmh on flat rough asphalt. It hasn't since turned on. After a few days of healing my wounds, I took it apart to see if there's something burned on the motherboard, but there wasn't, at least on the top side, didn't looked at the MOSFETs. Since the crash, the wheel has an insanely high motor resistance, it was literally easyer to carry then to push. That resistance disappeared when I disconnected the motor phasewires, telling me that there's a short on the board between the phases. 

The brushing sound is still there, still sounds like a metal brush scraping the motor inside. One guy in a chat proposed that this sound comes from the coils on the stator, and that the motor causes the motherboard to burn because the copper coil is damaged and makes contact with something it shouldn't.

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, LeFotografion said:

That resistance disappeared when I disconnected the motor phasewires

This is very typical when MOSFETs are blown or other another short circuit is present

 

1 hour ago, LeFotografion said:

sounds like a metal brush scraping the motor inside

I'd guess it's wires brushing the motor cover.

 

It sounds to me like you have a classic case of slipped stator and it would be very interesting to pull off the motor cover to make photographs. Of course, don't do anything until your reseller agrees—this is a clear warranty issue.

I'm very happy to hear that you weren't badly injured in the crash and hope your recovery is going well. Scary.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Tawpie

[LeFotografion]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I'm very happy to hear that you weren't badly injured in the crash and hope your recovery is going well

Thanks for the reply.

Well I was injured somewhat badly, took me one week to walk normal again, my hands, knees and allows are still covered in wounds. 

 

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

don't do anything until your reseller agrees—this is a clear warranty issue

Hmm... And... Just as a thought... Would I have bought it prom Ali Express for cheap, this warranty would probably not be reliable, would it be... 

 

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

It sounds to me like you have a classic case of slipped stator

Ok this is what I heard in the group chat, what does that mean? How can the stator slip, like where exactly is the point of failure. Because I have seen many stator's and all kinds of electric motors, especially the hollow ones seemed to be ridged internally.

[supercurio]

@LeFotografion I can confirm 100% that it's a case of motor stator slippage, as documented in this dedicated thread.

I'm sorry you got hurt, 26 km/h without gear can be extremely destructive. I hope you'll recover fully in due time.
I built a discussion group for distributors to help each other handle this issue with communication and repairs. In case your S22 distributor in not part of it yet, I would very much like to invite it.

Thank you for coming forward with your story as well.

Edited September 8, 2022 by supercurio

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, LeFotografion said:

Well I was injured somewhat badly, took me one week to walk normal again, my hands, knees and allows are still covered in wounds.

Oh wow, I didn't realize it was that bad. Take care of yourself while you heal.

2 hours ago, LeFotografion said:

How can the stator slip, like where exactly is the point of failure.

I don't think anyone except maybe KS or the motor manufacturer know for certain. It looks like the stator is glued on, and historically at least, that has been a fine method of attachment. Slipping can be from any number of reasons from poor workmanship applying the glue, to something wrong with the glue or how it was cured, perhaps the surfaces weren't properly prepared. A whole host of things can go sideways and you might not realize it until a stator slips while a customer is riding. These are things that ZX (motor manufacturer) and KS are surely reviewing, and since we think they think they found and fixed the issue starting in July, perhaps they do understand what happened. I'd be very pleasantly surprised if they shared with us... didn't a ZX motor turn up in a GW teardown recently?

[buffs]

6 hours ago, Tawpie said:

... didn't a ZX motor turn up in a GW teardown recently?

yes, in the Begode T4 thread, EcoDrift has pics of the ZX C30 motor.

[timjimbob]

Hey, I have the kingsong s22 which seems to have been built on January 12th, 2022.  I got it 3 months ago and have 1900km on it.  I haven't heard any noises.  Is the actual distance irrelevant since the motor can slip at any point, for example: at 5000km?  I'm not sure if I should ride it anymore.

[supercurio]

@timjimbob yes, the distance is irrelevant with one case of stator slippage at 2400km+.

The best strategy might depend on who is your dealer. Has they announced a replacement like eevee's?

[Celt26]

On 8/21/2022 at 9:02 AM, Tawpie said:

That should be easy to verify... add some tape and see if it goes away

Hey where would you put tape?

My s22 has that vibration sound and it's annoyingly loud.

[Tawpie]

14 minutes ago, Celt26 said:

Hey where would you put tape?

My s22 has that vibration sound and it's annoyingly loud.

I'll poke around mine this evening now that it's not pouring or blowing so much. The idea is to try to change the resonance frequency of the mudguard to verify that it is indeed the mudguard. Tensioning the mudguard or adding weight should change the sound's frequency or timbre.

[Celt26]

28 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I'll poke around mine this evening now that it's not pouring or blowing so much. The idea is to try to change the resonance frequency of the mudguard to verify that it is indeed the mudguard. Tensioning the mudguard or adding weight should change the sound's frequency or timbre.

Ok keep me posted! 

I actually live in Seattle it'd be cool to meet up if you're willing. I have questions!

Like also everytime I turn on the s22 the lights always turn on and the wheel makes this annoying sound until I turn on the night light and turn it off. Is there a way to stop the light from coming on? I assume it's a long sensor of some sort.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Celt26

[level9]

I just had this resonance issue. I noticed it right when I got the wheel if I applied hard acceleration. After about 100 miles and especially after installing some decent pads so I could really give the S22 some gas, the noise got loud... like.. LOUD.. as in you could hear me down the block and the whole wheel was high and fast pitch vibrating including me.

I deinstalled the kickstand & linkage. The sound and vibrations 95% went away, with just a brief, high pitched tinge at the start of acceleration.

I reinstalled the linkage (no kickstand) and the sound increased but ~80% less than it was and still relatively brief.

There's some kind of resonance moving from the left to right side of the wheel through the kickstand and linkages.

There must be a gasket or something we can install to stop this.

[Rawnei]

6 hours ago, level9 said:

I just had this resonance issue. I noticed it right when I got the wheel if I applied hard acceleration. After about 100 miles and especially after installing some decent pads so I could really give the S22 some gas, the noise got loud... like.. LOUD.. as in you could hear me down the block and the whole wheel was high and fast pitch vibrating including me.

I deinstalled the kickstand & linkage. The sound and vibrations 95% went away, with just a brief, high pitched tinge at the start of acceleration.

I reinstalled the linkage (no kickstand) and the sound increased but ~80% less than it was and still relatively brief.

There's some kind of resonance moving from the left to right side of the wheel through the kickstand and linkages.

There must be a gasket or something we can install to stop this.

This sound is usually from one or several of the Philips screws holding the display cover being a bit loose and need of tightening, I haven't heard of anyone finding other sources making this sound but definitely loose screws is something to look for.

[onkeldanuel]

10 hours ago, level9 said:

I just had this resonance issue. I noticed it right when I got the wheel if I applied hard acceleration. After about 100 miles and especially after installing some decent pads so I could really give the S22 some gas, the noise got loud... like.. LOUD.. as in you could hear me down the block and the whole wheel was high and fast pitch vibrating including me.

I deinstalled the kickstand & linkage. The sound and vibrations 95% went away, with just a brief, high pitched tinge at the start of acceleration.

I reinstalled the linkage (no kickstand) and the sound increased but ~80% less than it was and still relatively brief.

There's some kind of resonance moving from the left to right side of the wheel through the kickstand and linkages.

There must be a gasket or something we can install to stop this.

It was mostly the fenderholders (whole fender +kickstand resonated due to them) for me, 3d-printed them and noise is gone now

Edited December 7, 2022 by onkeldanuel

[level9]

12 hours ago, onkeldanuel said:

It was mostly the fenderholders (whole fender +kickstand resonated due to them) for me, 3d-printed them and noise is gone now

What did you replace/3d print? I installed rubber washers at the kickstand linkages and the sound is at least.. mostly tolerable atm.

[onkeldanuel]

8 hours ago, level9 said:

What did you replace/3d print? I installed rubber washers at the kickstand linkages and the sound is at least.. mostly tolerable atm.

I printed the 2 Aluminium-fender/kickstand holders 

[Beenjammin]

I wasn’t sure where to post this, but this seems like a good place. 
 

I just ordered an S22 to replace the S18 I used to have (until a faulty control board that i purchased from EUCO made the S18 self-ignite in my Kitchen on nov 8) anyways EUCO was great and really helpful with the replacement process and even upgraded me to the S22 from my S18 that their bad part destroyed. So the replacement process took a while as I just received the s22 today, and I had a weird feeling when I received it. The factory tape on the box was taped over with other clear tape, lined up to look like it wasn’t taped over. I pull the scooter out and it is haphazardly wrapped with cellophane and there are Smudges on the plastic - it’s clearly not still factory sealed.

I go for an initial ride and the tire is wayyyy flat (11psi) and the BMS won’t update or even let me investigate battery #2. I can’t pull any logs at all from the BMS. I looked at the serial numbers on the wheel and there it is. The motor has a production date 05/31/2022 when the serial number of the unit is 07/22/2022. 
🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🫠

 

Please, someone please help me. Tell me what I need to do. 
 

I cannot navigate this seemingly endless swamp of grifters and con artists that call themselves legitimate distributors and write on their website about the euc “community” and safety or concern for their customers.