PSA: King Song KS-S22 motor issues, how to identify and fix

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Beenjammin said:

Please, someone please help me. Tell me what I need to do.

jeepers. I feel really bad for you.

Couple of things though... the motor date not matching the wheel production date isn't surprising, individual parts (motors) may be produced far in advance of when they're installed. Sadly though, your motor needs to be pinned.

Having an 'open' box isn't unusual, dealers often open and inspect product prior to shipping. Mine updated the wheel and BMS firmware, then repacked (neatly, in the plastic bag, not cellophane) and shipped.

Flat tires aren't surprising either, I always check mine before riding. My MTen3 required tire sealant before it would hold pressure, but since then has been just fine.

Not being able to update firmware... that seems to be a try-try again process, I prefer to blame the great firewall but it could be dodgy apps just as easily. My wheel is now at 2.25 (shipped with 2.24, I hear 2.26 is available now but I have no reason to update) and both BMSs are at 2.15 (the latest). I suggest trying the firmware updates again (mainboard first), perhaps with different phones, and with either WiFi or Cellular but not both—preferably wifi so the update doesn't get interrupted by a phone call. I happened to use iPhone for my updates, but loads of people have been successful with Androids.

If you still can't get the KS app to do the update, you can try SoftTuner (App store app). Keep in mind that SoftTuner is a tool intended for trained techs working at authorized dealerships and it will allow you to do things that you really shouldn't do. But if you select 2.25 as the mainboard and 2.15 as the BMS firmware you're selecting the "released" versions so it should be fine. I personally wouldn't experiment with versions and SoftTuner, the release notes are of little use and there's a ton of stuff in SoftTuner that never appears in the KS app for general consumption.

Good luck, and while it's of little consolation, getting questionable parts as 'warranty replacements' from EUCO can be a hit and miss affair. You're not alone.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Tawpie
Pretty sure the latest BMS is 2.15, not 2.12

[Beenjammin]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

the motor date not matching the wheel production date isn't surprising, individual parts (motors) may be produced far in advance of when they're installed.

They assured me I would receive an updated s22 because I was very vocal about the issues happening. Wouldn’t want to have one explode and another crap out from manufacturer defects. Also, pretty sure that when a company has to do a rebranding of a product due to massive issues with the first two runs, and there is a date (like July of 2022) indicating that the product made after that date is safe; they aren’t going to put the MOST defective item onto one of their products made after the “safe” date. 

 

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Having an 'open' box isn't unusual, dealers often open and inspect product

Bullshit. The factory tape is there to absolve the distributer of defective merchandise; in the event that the customer does in fact receive something that needs warranty replacement, the distributor is protected and the manufacturer knows the product wasn’t tampered with until it arrived in the customers hands. 
 

Are you serious, actually, right now? Are you just trolling me or are you really sticking up for a company that clearly doesn’t give a f#*k about you or me? I’m confused but I’ll continue. 

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Flat tires aren't surprising either

They aren’t when they’re 25psi, the pressure that kingsong ships all the s22’s at (see the earlier post in this thread about it being easier to learn on lower pressure) HOWEVER it should be of concern when it’s lower than 15psi - which is the most air you can have in the tire if you are doing a repair (like a motor replacement) 

 

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Not being able to update firmware

I tried on both my android and iPhone, android only works on Wi-Fi and my iPhone was on cellular. Tried the kingsong app, soft tuner and darkness bot. Cannot retrieve BMS log files, update BMS firmware or even charge it past 54%. 

 

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

getting questionable parts as 'warranty replacements' from EUCO can be a hit and miss affair.

Yeah it really shouldn’t be when my whole device had to be replaced due to a fire that was started from a faulty product THEY sold to me. 
 

There is zero excuse for a company to waste someone’s time money or energy after an incident that they were at fault for I dont care how petty the issue or how slighted you feel. And to potentially and knowingly endanger a customer is criminal. 
 

Just saying. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Beenjammin
R E S P E C T

[Paul A]

5 minutes ago, Beenjammin said:

Do you work for them, enjoy playing devils advocate or are you just a dick?

 

Tawpie is a long time, well known, highly regarded and respected member of this forum.

She joined in October 12, 2020.

She has contributed over 3900 posts, and has helped many members with her vast, experienced, technical knowledge.

 

You, Beenjammin, joined in November 7, 2022.

Perhaps, you need to be more respectful and polite when addressing anyone on this forum, henceforth.

Being from New York City is not an excuse.

[Beenjammin]

5 minutes ago, Paul A said:

respectful and polite when addressing anyone on this forum

While I agree fully I find it very patronizing to have my entire post scrutinized so contrarily, and while I’m sure there was no ill-will invalidating someone’s life experience is disrespectful. Also I was being sarcastic.

my apologies to tawpie I meant no disrespect. 

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Beenjammin said:

Bullshit. The factory tape is there to absolve the distributer of defective merchandise;

No it's not, it's there to hold the box closed, and every single wheel I have ever bought from a reputable dealer has been opened first and checked by them (and 2 out of the 3 have been test ridden and pre-charged for me as well), which is rather a necessary safety step when you buy from a Chinese manufacturer like Begode or KS where QC is sometimes an issue. All the dealers I buy from consider that setup / check part of their standard service before shipping a wheel to a customer.

Not nice to call bullshit on something that evidently isn't.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Cerbera

[Beenjammin]

8 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

No it's not, it's there to hold the box closed, and every single wheel I have ever bought from a reputable dealer has been opened first and checked by them (and 2 out of the 3 have been test ridden and pre-charged for me as well), which is rather a necessary when you buy from a Chinese manufacturer like Begode or KS where QC is sometimes an issue. Not nice to call bullshit on something that evidently isn't.

Oh that must be why it literally says “if this seal was broken or missing, the package is not original from KingSong please declare it right away”

 

also when I got my s18 it was intact. 

[Cerbera]

55 minutes ago, Beenjammin said:

Oh that must be why it literally says “if this seal was broken or missing, the package is not original from KingSong please declare it right away”

And I bet dealers have got that tape... but fair play - I have never owned a KS, so I can't argue further.

[Beenjammin]

Just now, Cerbera said:

And I bet dealers have got that tape... but fair play - I have never owned a KS, so I can't argue further.

It’s not the tape being broken I have an issue with. It’s the clear tape placed carefully and directly on top of the manufacturer tape so it looks like it wasn’t broken that has me put off. 

[Cerbera]

My advice is front the dealer with each of those questions - did you inspect it, and if so why, why can't I update, why is stuff smudged, why is the tyre flat etc etc.

Please confirm that this motor, (serial number / date included) is pinned ? That last one you could ask KS directly...

From everything you say it does sound a bit dodgy, and I suppose there is a chance the dealer lied about whether his stock had pinned motors, but you have to at least listen to dealer explanations if they offer any before you can start asking for replacements or start returns processes. Tawpie is right that components are often dated well before they are used in final products so that in itself isn't suspect, but again, KS would probably confirm for you. I mean I'm with you - I wanna be damn sure what I am riding before I get on it !

Edited January 11, 2023 by Cerbera

[Rawnei]

4 hours ago, Beenjammin said:

I wasn’t sure where to post this, but this seems like a good place. 
 

I just ordered an S22 to replace the S18 I used to have (until a faulty control board that i purchased from EUCO made the S18 self-ignite in my Kitchen on nov 8) anyways EUCO was great and really helpful with the replacement process and even upgraded me to the S22 from my S18 that their bad part destroyed. So the replacement process took a while as I just received the s22 today, and I had a weird feeling when I received it. The factory tape on the box was taped over with other clear tape, lined up to look like it wasn’t taped over. I pull the scooter out and it is haphazardly wrapped with cellophane and there are Smudges on the plastic - it’s clearly not still factory sealed.

I go for an initial ride and the tire is wayyyy flat (11psi) and the BMS won’t update or even let me investigate battery #2. I can’t pull any logs at all from the BMS. I looked at the serial numbers on the wheel and there it is. The motor has a production date 05/31/2022 when the serial number of the unit is 07/22/2022. 
🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🫠

 

Please, someone please help me. Tell me what I need to do. 
 

I cannot navigate this seemingly endless swamp of grifters and con artists that call themselves legitimate distributors and write on their website about the euc “community” and safety or concern for their customers. 

Perhaps motor was not originally pinned and then later pinned? This would be normal procedure and motor fix, low PSI tire is normal after transport first state of business is to pump tire up.

Folks have had problems with apps, try "SoftTuner" app also from King Song and see if it makes any difference, also contact your reseller with all your concerns and give them a chance to explain or resolve things for you.

[Tawpie]

10 hours ago, Beenjammin said:

my apologies to tawpie I meant no disrespect.

Not a problem, apology accepted. And I apologize for my word choices that felt patronizing, that was absolutely not my intent.

I can understand your frustration, I was trying to give your reseller the benefit of the doubt because while these discoveries are extra disconcerting in your situation, many of the things you observed are fairly typical. I'm not a personal fan of EUCO as a dealer, in large part because you're not the first to report somewhat an unsatisfactory 'warranty' or 'make things right' experience so I'm not defending them. Nevertheless, tape and tire pressure and downrev firmware aren't unusual.

EUCO aside, not being able to update the firmware is not a good sign. You do want to get hold of them over that, and find out if the motor has been pinned. You should also mention your other concerns—maybe with feedback they'll pay more attention to setting expectations and ensuring that their customers have better out-of-box experiences.

I wish you the best of luck with your new wheel—clean out the grease from the sliders and it's really a wonderful product.

[Carlos83]

Hello, my S22 has just arrived, and I am very worried because the engine date is 20220624, I don't know if it will be defective or not. What is your opinion ?

[supercurio]

14 minutes ago, Carlos83 said:

Hello, my S22 has just arrived, and I am very worried because the engine date is 20220624, I don't know if it will be defective or not. What is your opinion ?

@Carlos83 there is still a good amount of unsold S22 inventory some dealers are sitting on, I would personally only buy at reduced price and with the guarantee that the motor were pinned.

From 20220624, it is hard to tell one way or another without opening the motor and that's what I would recommend.
You can try to reproduce this test otherwise but there's no way to know for sure that the result will be conclusive if it passes, only if it fails.

Does the side cover say KS-S22 or KS-S20?
What does the dealer say?

Edited February 20, 2023 by supercurio

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, Carlos83 said:

Hello, my S22 has just arrived, and I am very worried because the engine date is 20220624, I don't know if it will be defective or not. What is your opinion ?

24 June is within the date range of motors that need to be pinned to avoid stator slip (in other words, it probably is 'defective'). If you want 100% assurance, you'll have to open the motor and make a visual inspection... otherwise you just have to trust what the dealer tells you and perhaps do @supercurio's potentially destructive test.

[Paul A]

2 hours ago, Carlos83 said:

defective

 

Maybe email video link to CNC workshops, to get quotes for repair.

RevRides, in the video, were charging $50 USD.

 

 

[Carlos83]

Another thing that fixes me is that in the serial number of the engine it says ks-22 and in the others it says ks20.  I don't know if this has something to do with it.

 

 

[Tawpie]

34 minutes ago, Carlos83 said:

says ks-22 and in the others it says ks20

I wouldn't think so... the rebrand of the wheel happened before the motor issue was discovered and affected S22s (only, kind of by definition since S20 never made it to the general public)

[Muz79]

On 2/21/2023 at 4:19 AM, Tawpie said:

I wouldn't think so... the rebrand of the wheel happened before the motor issue was discovered and affected S22s (only, kind of by definition since S20 never made it to the general public)

Reading all of the posts above Im starting to get nervous, as I have just recently picked up an S22 with a build date of May 2022 but the motor markings say S20 (also built in may).  Should I be concerned or are the S20 motors not affected?

Was there an official re-call on the S22, or are they just fixing them as they fail?

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, Muz79 said:

Reading all of the posts above Im starting to get nervous, as I have just recently picked up an S22 with a build date of May 2022 but the motor markings say S20 (also built in may).  Should I be concerned or are the S20 motors not affected?

Was there an official re-call on the S22, or are they just fixing them as they fail?

Yes you should be concerned, only way to verify if motor is pinned is to open it up.

No King Song never did a recall, most of the responsibility landed on resellers who stepped up.