Is the 16X still the best all-round wheel?

[Spaghetteh]

3 hours ago, Nobuyasu said:

the wheel starts to wobble as I gain speed while accelerating

Wobbles are something every new rider experiences at some point or another - with time and experience they'll occur far less often and will become more manageable. It looks like you're already learning ways to mitigate them - keep it up!

3 hours ago, Nobuyasu said:

I assume getting Clark Pads on my 18xl or something similar will help out significantly to get moving uphills

Yes they would help by giving you some leverage on the wheel from your knees/shins but as @Tawpie said, you do want to be careful about overpowering the wheel. Over-leaning (pushing your wheel to the point where it can't supply enough power to keep you upright) will cause it to cut power and dump you but overheating could cause permanent damage to the batteries/circuitry. If you don't have one already, I'd strongly recommend getting a phone app that lets you monitor your wheel's stats in real time like DarknessBot (iOS/Android) or EUC World (Android) and use it to keep a close eye on your current and temperature when climbing steep hills. On my 18XL, I try to keep it below 20A of sustained current and take breaks if I get too close to 55 degrees celsius (~130F).

Also, remember that your wheel loses power-output-potential as the battery drains, so taking on a hill you've done before at a 90% charge doesn't necessarily mean the wheel will be able to do that same hill at 50% charge and the over-lean threshold will increase the lower your battery charge/voltage is. Just feel the wheel and do what you think is best - with time and experience you'll start to recognize when the wheel is approaching its peak power output.

[Funky]

For wobbles lower PSI in tire may help. I at start had a lot of wobbles, if my tire was over 30psi. At 28psi i didn't feel any wobbles. (My weight is 280lbs/127kg btw..)

Also anything over 30 psi - it felt like i was riding on "knife edge". But now after 500-600km ridden, i can ride at 35-40psi without any wobbles and i don't get that riding on "knife edge" feeling anymore. 

Ride more and you will learn it. I have ridden 700km so far and i'm still "learning". Sure i can ride 40-45km/h already. That isn't hard.. Some people are still "learning" at 5000km ridden. Backwards riding, seat riding, evading.. Doing some crazy tricks.

[Nobuyasu]

2 hours ago, Spaghetteh said:

 as @Tawpie said, you do want to be careful about overpowering the wheel. Over-leaning (pushing your wheel to the point where it can't supply enough power to keep you upright) will cause it to cut power and dump you but overheating could cause permanent damage to the batteries/circuitry. If you don't have one already, I'd strongly recommend getting a phone app that lets you monitor your wheel's stats in real time like DarknessBot (iOS/Android) or EUC World (Android) and use it to keep a close eye on your current and temperature when climbing steep hills. On my 18XL, I try to keep it below 20A of sustained current and take breaks if I get too close to 55 degrees celsius (~130F).

Also, remember that your wheel loses power-output-potential as the battery drains, so taking on a hill you've done before at a 90% charge doesn't necessarily mean the wheel will be able to do that same hill at 50% charge and the over-lean threshold will increase the lower your battery charge/voltage is. Just feel the wheel and do what you think is best - with time and experience you'll start to recognize when the wheel is approaching its peak power output.

I’ll need to check out the DarknessBot app.  I’ve only been monitoring my rides on the crappy KS app for the data you mentioned. But I only look at it after my rides. I don’t want to have a face plant because I’m trying to look at my temps when trying to muscle it up hills.

Also, lucky for me, it’s finally nice being small.  I’m only about 135 lbs which makes it more fun being on a EUC I hear from bigger riders.  So maybe I’m being naive, but I feel or rather thought I have a lot more margin before cutouts compared to others?  Also, I can totally feel the power loss when the battery is at 50% compared to 100%.  So when I try to accelerate and/or power up hills, I am kind to my wheel.  I don’t want my wheel to punish me where at minimum I’ll have to get a replacement full face helmet.  Lol!

[Nobuyasu]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

For wobbles lower PSI in tire may help. I at start had a lot of wobbles, if my tire was over 30psi. At 28psi i didn't feel any wobbles. (My weight is 280lbs/127kg btw..)

Also anything over 30 psi - it felt like i was riding on "knife edge". But now after 500-600km ridden, i can ride at 35-40psi without any wobbles and i don't get that riding on "knife edge" feeling anymore. 

Funny you mention this because I tried playing with the tire pressure.  I can’t recall where it was at when I got it…maybe around 32 psi?  But I tried to inflate it to about 36~38 psi and boy was I in for a surprise. I did this to eliminate any flats from tire pinching, which I read on other threads.  So I totally know what you mean when you’re saying “knife edge” feeling.  I then quickly lowered the PSI back down. Again I can’t remember exactly where at.

[Spaghetteh]

7 minutes ago, Nobuyasu said:

I’ve only been monitoring my rides on the crappy KS app for the data you mentioned. But I only look at it after my rides. I don’t want to have a face plant because I’m trying to look at my temps when trying to muscle it up hills.

 

Ah yes, the manufacturer apps are indeed crap; DB and EUCW are community developed and way better. That's a good point about keeping your eyes on the road - fortunately, DB (I think? I haven't actually used it) and EUCW allow you to set customized alarms for most of these metrics. So your phone can audibly alert you if you've crossed a threshold you've set for any particular metric, like current or temperature.

 

13 minutes ago, Nobuyasu said:

Also, lucky for me, it’s finally nice being small.  I’m only about 135 lbs which makes it more fun being on a EUC I hear from bigger riders.  So maybe I’m being naive, but I feel or rather thought I have a lot more margin before cutouts compared to others?

Hah! Yes, due to your size your potential in achieving speeds, jumps, climbs, and distances on an EUC is greater than my own and can't say I don't envy you "smaller folk" for that. Though I'd caution against taking that for granted and "flying too close to the sun" - these machines are capable of a lot but we've still got to respect their limitations; or else end up on the pavement 

[Tawpie]

Both of those apps and WheelLog will log most all the available parameters during your ride... you can review them post ride and nerd out over all the data.

[stickspike]

I wonder how the begode T4 compares

[Funky]

42 minutes ago, stickspike said:

I wonder how the begode T4 compares

Can't compare it to 16x and 18xl. As it's different weight/speed/power class. 

You can compare T4 to V12

[mike_bike_kite]

You mentioned it's only issues with the axle and the pedals that make you want to sell. Can't you just have them replaced? This would be cheaper (I assume) and you'd have a known wheel you know you like.

[wstuart]

Maybe get a T4?

[Tazarinho]

On 9/13/2022 at 10:37 PM, mike_bike_kite said:

You mentioned it's only issues with the axle and the pedals that make you want to sell. Can't you just have them replaced? This would be cheaper (I assume) and you'd have a known wheel you know you like.

Thank you for the suggestion! Yes, it would have been cheaper (in the meantime I got a new 16X)! But I'm worried it's just the first parts giving out and that I'd end up spending more on fixing the old one than I would on the new. Having said that, in hindsight I'm not entirely convinced I made the right choice, as the new wheel seems to be rubbing the tire if I ride one-footed from the start and the ride quality feels different (in a negative way). I'll probably swap the tire to see if that's the issue.

[Funky]

12 minutes ago, Tazarinho said:

Thank you for the suggestion! Yes, it would have been cheaper (in the meantime I got a new 16X)! But I'm worried it's just the first parts giving out and that I'd end up spending more on fixing the old one than I would on the new. Having said that, in hindsight I'm not entirely convinced I made the right choice, as the new wheel seems to be rubbing the tire if I ride one-footed from the start and the ride quality feels different (in a negative way). I'll probably swap the tire to see if that's the issue.

16x side gap is very small. When i was looking at 16x and 18xl in person at store. On 18xl there were quit a gap, could put almost finger in. But on 16x there where almost "hair" gap.. The side of tire was so close to plastic. Stones, small sticks would get stuck inside wheel well quit often. 

So there is no surprise that when you are leaning one side, or riding one legged it would rub against plastic. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Funky

[Tazarinho]

5 minutes ago, Funky said:

So there is no surprise that when you are leaning one side, or riding one legged it would rub against plastic.

Sure, but I never had it on my other 16X, so I find it worrying! The gap actually seems quite large. I can put my little finger in it. 

[Magman116]

I have a 16X and love it, but it hardly gets to see any ride time due to my RS HS and Master.  None of which can match the nimbleness of the 16X. For me, the 16X just didn't have the top speed I was looking for, but had the torque, agility, weight and good trolley handle. 

After riding with suspension it feels so strange going back to a non-suspension wheel.  I am really loving how much smother it is on the road and off. I do miss the 16 inch wheel, and if I had to get another 16 inch wheel, I would be hard pressed to find a better performing wheel than the T4 for the money.  With the V12 and T4 in the same basic price category, I think the T4 nudges out the V12 in performance. As the wheels increase in size and weight they loose agility but gain in comfort, stability, and usually distance

While the laws in your area may not allow for faster speeds on a PEV, it is nice to have the headroom in case you need the extra speed or acceleration. The 16X is fun and quick, but for a little more money, you can get so much more in a V12 or T4.

 

Just my $.02

[mrelwood]

For the OP, the options are probably limited to V11, V12, and 18XL, in no particular order.

V11 and V12 issues have been practically fixed by now, so they are both pretty solid wheels. Both are sealed from water much much better than the 16X, and both are much easier to disassemble for repairs. The 16X is just not made to be opened up, and it's really hard to do so without  destroying the pads.

The shell seams on the 16X are not waterproof at all, and getting water in through the fenders can also be an issue. The board is on the top so it isn't getting wet instantly, but the headlight unit does get condensation easily. Now with the bearing seals the V11 is fully protected from water, and the battery packs are even in their own molded containers.

16X and 18XL do give that "nice wheel" feeling right away, but the V11's stunning "whoa this is nice!" is on a very different level. Any moving part in any device requires maintenance, but for the comfort that the V11 offers, it's a no-brainer to me personally.

You still can't get rid of the dozen hectic beeps that the KingSongs make when they connect to your phone. Great way to wake up your family. Inmotions only give a single more pleasant tone that can be made silent.

Both Inmotions have extremely detailed ride mode customisations that make sure you'll bond with your wheel like no other. KingSongs have only three modes, that barely even differ from each other. I won't ever buy a three-mode wheel again, it really is that good!

 

On 9/7/2022 at 5:04 AM, Nobuyasu said:

have an 18XL, but toying with the idea to replace it with an 16X primarily for torque and a smoother ride.

16X does have a slightly more instant feeling of torque, but since the 16X tire is 3" wide and the 18XL only 2.5", the difference is not as drastic as it would be to a 18x3" wheel.

But a smoother ride the 16X is not. A larger diameter is what brings smoothness and stability.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

The 16X is just not made to be opened up, and it's really hard to do so without  destroying the pads.

If you remove them once and apply two-sided tape - next time you don't need to be afraid of "tearing" the pads. My 18xl pads have already 5-7 layers of two-sided tape. I simply apply new layer on already existing one.   Each layer makes the pads more durable.  

Edited October 21, 2022 by Funky

[Tawpie]

On 10/20/2022 at 3:56 PM, mrelwood said:

The 16X is just not made to be opened up, and it's really hard to do so without  destroying the pads

Hah! If you can call those things stuck to the side "pads". They're almost but not quite squishy decoration, that's all!

I open my 16XS about every 6 months or so, just to poke around and make sure everything is still solid (it is). I just picked at the edges of the 'pads' until I could lift them enough to access the screws. If you do this with dust on your hands, the dust de-sticky-fies the pads and it's easy to lift the next time. An inelegant solution true, but effective.

I'm an unrepentant fan of the lowly 16X... it's simple, durable and reliable. It absolutely demands that you respect its speed limit, but if you do it will go and go and go. I do carry a plastic garbage bag in case I get caught out in the driving rain but do that with all my wheels (never ever used the bag BTW)... dust gets inside, but so far zero signs of water. For normal Seattle rain, I just ride quickly home because I don't like being wet—the wheel and its roll.nz haven't minded. And I do ride in snow, which means the wheel well fills with slush... I dry it upright and have seen zero evidence of water entry.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Tawpie

[RoboFixIt]

16x is a very special wheel, I miss it a lot! Has some issues but so do all EUC's! Don't jump off curbs etc and she will last a long time!

[360rumors]

On 8/1/2022 at 2:38 AM, Tazarinho said:

I'm looking to get a new wheel, but when I compare the current batch of wheels for sale, I'm more and more leaning towards buying just another 16X. I just don't seem to find another wheel that's an equally great all-rounder and suits my needs. Unless someone can convince me otherwise...

What I'm looking for in a wheel:

Usage: The wheel is my main (commuter) vehicle, I only switch to a car when there's heavy rain forecasted, need to transport heavy loads, or need to go someplace far. The trajectory I take by wheel involves very mixed terrain, ranging from concrete to single track dirt, and includes cobblestones, curbs and what not. I also occasionally go on half-day trips 40-70 km or full day trips with charging break at a restaurant (100-120 km). I usually gravitate towards mountain-bike trails for these, but sometimes it can also be mellow cruising on paved surfaces.

Speed: In Belgium PEV's aren't allowed to go faster than 25 km/h. I usually ride around 35 km/h with tiltback at 40 km/h. Normally that means I could get fined but shouldn't lose my driving license.  While I regularly hear 'please decelerate', I don't feel the need to go any faster and don't want to draw unwelcome attention to my riding or EUC's in Belgium in general. I also stick rigorously to all other traffic laws and always give priorities, never run red lights, stop for pedestrian crossings, etc.... Also I don't want to have to suit-up in full motorcycle gear.

Torque: Never really had an issue with the 16x. But I do occasionally go up steeper terrain and overall I do think torque is more important to my riding style than speed.

Range: Most of the time the range on my 16X is sufficient, but sometimes I really have to watch my riding style on longer trips, and sometimes I don't do a certain loop because I'm not sure I would make it. More range would obviously be welcome.

Weight: I usually carry my wheel at least once or twice a day, including a flight of stairs at work. When the tire is wet or muddy I will carry it for a longer time at work, out of respect for the cleaning staff. While it's ok if it is a little bit heavier than the 16X I'm not looking for a 30kg+ wheel.

Durability: I'm a heavy dude at 100 kg and I usually carry at least 10 kg of gear + backpack. I don't go looking for stunts and I try to ride in a way to minimize strain on the euc (by flexing knees, jumping up curbs, etc...) but I don't go out of the way of difficult terrain or jumps, so it doesn't  have an easy life either and it will get dropped. My current wheel has over 10.000 km, but it seems like now either the axle or the pedal hangers are starting to giving out.

Price: Obviously cheaper is better. If I have to fork over 1000 euro annually for a wheel, then the gap between the cost for a wheel and a car starts to diminish. I have a second-hand car that costs less than a Sherman and it' lasting a lot longer than 10.000 km. 

Suspension: I've never ridden a suspension wheel, so can't say much about it. On very rocky terrain or tracks with lots of tree roots it seems like it could be an advantage, but I'm worried I would be less in control on steep descents with lots of twists.

Light: In winter my commute starts and ends in the dark, so a decent headlight and a visible taillight are a must.

Handle: Lots of trolleying around, while shopping and at work if the tire is clean. A good handle is important.

Seat: Unnecessary

Tire: I'm not a fan of tramlining. I really enjoyed the original Chao Yang H-5167 on my 16X. I have two new ones at home, so even if it's no longer the stock-tire I could easily swap them out. I ride on all types of terrain and have never fallen because of the terrain, except once during a tight, fast-turn on micro-gravel. But that would have happened with any tire. 

Anyway, curious to see if anyone can convince me there's a better all-round wheel for me out there than the 16X.

I haven’t owned 16x but my Tesla v2 fits your criteria other than bright taillight.  My only issue is the low pedal height but Tesla v3 fixes that issue. 
v11 also fits most of your criteria. My main complaint was that it wasn’t fast enough but that’s not relevant for you. 

[eucinsea]

I upgraded from the x16 to the V11 and never looked back and eventually sold the x16 after 6months of it collecting dust. I am now however contemplating the V13 as my next upgrade having found out about them today on ewheels site.

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, eucinsea said:

I am now however contemplating the V13 as my next upgrade having found out about them today on ewheels site.

Before you place an order, wait until we get influencer and layman user reviews on YouTube. Buying a brand new model is very risky business, and a 22” wheel rides and accelerates like a train, in good and bad. It’s a geometry thing, large tire diameter requires hugely more effort to accelerate and brake. I’m sure you noticed this when going from the 16” 16X to the 18” V11.

[Crab]

I’m on my first wheel 16x, plan to stay on it for a while after 200miles. Not sure but looking at the 2nd release of the s22 when they become available, thinking suspension might be a better choice with the bugs worked out hopefully. Unfortunately the Seattle rainy season just hit, riding when it dries out only.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Crab

[Tawpie]

52 minutes ago, Crab said:

I’m on my first wheel 16x, plan to stay on it for a while after 200miles. Not sure but looking at the 2nd release of the s22 when they become available, thinking suspension might be a better choice with the bugs worked out hopefully. Unfortunately the Seattle rainy season just hit, riding when it dries out only.

Welcome to the asylum! Your wheel is fine in the Seattle "rain", mind the slippery leaves and dry it out in a stand so it's vertical. I say that and yet I avoid riding in the rain... too uncomfortable for my taste. After you get nice and comfy, pop by Saturday Night Ride... it's intense at the front of the pack but if you hang back a bit it's much calmer. And they wait at three locations for folks to catch up.

We have a local tg group for newer riders, slower small group rides mostly on the BG trail. DM me if you're interested! There aren't a lot of newbies anymore, but plenty of folks that jump at any excuse to ride.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Tawpie

[Crab]

On 10/31/2022 at 7:38 PM, Tawpie said:

Welcome to the asylum! Your wheel is fine in the Seattle "rain", mind the slippery leaves and dry it out in a stand so it's vertical. I say that and yet I avoid riding in the rain... too uncomfortable for my taste. After you get nice and comfy, pop by Saturday Night Ride... it's intense at the front of the pack but if you hang back a bit it's much calmer. And they wait at three locations for folks to catch up.

We have a local tg group for newer riders, slower small group rides mostly on the BG trail. DM me if you're interested! There aren't a lot of newbies anymore, but plenty of folks that jump at any excuse to ride.

Yea we did 28 miles yesterday from Duvall to carnation and just shy of fall city. Video on Seattle beg-int EUC riders Facebook page. It amazes me how I got comfortable doing 24mph on gravel…