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Is the 16X still the best all-round wheel?


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I will not be able to convince you to get a different wheel. Maybe someone else can.

The wheel that I would definitely replace if broken or worn out is the 16X. I gives me more smiles per mile than the others, for many of the same reasons you listed. 

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There really is no wheel that fits your list better than the KS16X. Points 2-5 alone really narrow it down. The 18XL technically fits but is more dated in terms of amenities (light, sound etc) and more importantly has considerably less torque (but a bit better high speed which you do not need). Overall the 18XL is considered the 16X's boring cousin. Suspension might bring new fun and comfort but the S18 has less torque and insufficient range. The V11 has even less torque (judging by RagingGrandpa's pull force measurements) and is borderline heavy. And I guess suspension means extra upfront cost and extra maintenance expenditures (by the way, when comparing to cars, you have to count in gas, insurance, registration, parking, maintenance repairs. It adds up quite quickly even if the car itself is cheap. Then there are non-tangible profits from riding a fun device vs of sitting in a car)

When (and if) the S16 arrives (in a few years) it might be a great contender!

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Gotway RS19 HT? - If you wanted bigger diameter wheel. But only if you don't ride in rain. (Otherwise you need to open whole wheel and put silicone everywhere. And i mean everywhere!!!)

Could also go V12HT, it offers everything 16X has, but "bit" better. -More speed, more range, more torque. (Doh it has its own problems..)

If wheel diameter don't matter to you 16X can't be beaten. I personally like bigger wheel, as it simply can roll over all road imperfections.

I also ride my 18xl ~35kph and my speed alarms are at 40kph. It's awesome long range cruiser. I personally was choosing between 16x and 18xl. I loved how 16x looks and that big 16x3" tire. But i didn't like the 16x handle, that square angled handle felt awkward in hand while carrying. So at the end i went with 18xl simply because of handle. :D  

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13 hours ago, Tazarinho said:

anyone can convince me there's a better all-round wheel for me out there than the 16X.

This will be a very half hearted and lame attempt... these are my niggles with my 16XS.LR (XS+second battery)

Handle: 16X handle is always annoyingly loose feeling and while it truthfully always does its job, it's annoying for about a quarter second.
Seat: good thing it's not necessary, because while some think it's the very best stock seat out there (it's very nice!), it bounces off so you have to add a safety strap
Tire options: this one is a valid one, the choices in the 12" rim size are much more limited than the larger 14" rims (18-20" outside diameters). However, since you like and have spare CY5167s, it's not an issue. I'm an H666 fan myself in spite of its tendency to tramline... they're expensive nowadays.

I'm a bit like @Scottie, I won't be parting ways with my 16XS.LR anytime soon. It is my hop-on-and-go wheel without a doubt. Yes, I have an MTen for fiddling around the neighborhood and an S18 because the trails I frequent are shared with horses and the suspension really helps return the enjoyment (dried hoof prints are murder bumpy), and I have an S22 on order (for the time being) because the S18 just doesn't have the range... but the 16XS.LR is the wheel I feel I can really count on for pretty much anything and everything. And it doesn't break.

EDIT

I realize I didn't suggest an alternative! You don't list any requirements that demand gigantic batteries (speed/autonomy), or more torque (dodging cars, downhill mountain bike trails, big air), or even suspension.

As it turns out I'm a fan of suspension because it allows me to not have to focus as much attention on the road ahead—it dials down the on-alert level just enough to be noticeable and it's quite nice actually. Enough so that I do at least think about hopping on the S18 for a routine cruise. I might ride my S18 more when I'm in town if it weren't for the soft TR1 tire-that-hates-to-turn. So maybe, just maybe, a V11. It's nowhere near as worry free as a 16X, but folks that own them love them. Although I must mention that while the V11 owners I know truly did love their wheels, they also sold them before a year was past.

Edited by Tawpie
add weak recommendation
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I have both the 16X and the V12 HS. Both are great wheels in my opinion, but I just love the V12. I actually think the extra weight of the V12 makes it a little more stable over bumps. I also ride on a lot of 35mph roads and I like being able to do the speed limit especially if a car is behind me. Both are a joy to ride and I get about the same amount of range out of both. If speed is not an issue and weight is, the 16X is probably a better choice for you.

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On 8/1/2022 at 9:57 PM, yoos said:

There really is no wheel that fits your list better than the KS16X. Points 2-5 alone really narrow it down. The 18XL technically fits but is more dated in terms of amenities (light, sound etc) and more importantly has considerably less torque (but a bit better high speed which you do not need). Overall the 18XL is considered the 16X's boring cousin. Suspension might bring new fun and comfort but the S18 has less torque and insufficient range. The V11 has even less torque (judging by RagingGrandpa's pull force measurements) and is borderline heavy. And I guess suspension means extra upfront cost and extra maintenance expenditures (by the way, when comparing to cars, you have to count in gas, insurance, registration, parking, maintenance repairs. It adds up quite quickly even if the car itself is cheap. Then there are non-tangible profits from riding a fun device vs of sitting in a car)

Thank you! I would indeed put the 18XL as second on the list. I also agree on the costs of a car not just being the acquisition price, but then again they also have some benefits. Passenger and cargo space, and range, to mention some. :)

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On 8/1/2022 at 11:40 PM, Funky said:

Gotway RS19 HT? - If you wanted bigger diameter wheel. But only if you don't ride in rain. (Otherwise you need to open whole wheel and put silicone everywhere. And i mean everywhere!!!)

It's a tempting wheel. But I live in an appartment with wood everywhere and am a bit reluctant to get a Begode wheel because of the potential fire hazard. And I do ride in light rain. If it's for more than a few minutes I put a backpack cover on the wheel. But this is Belgium, it's impossible to never ride in the rain (even though we had the driest July in 180 years). Together with the south of England and Wales we have pretty much the least sunshine in the world. Though allegedly the Aleutians (and some say Bergen) have more rain. ;)

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On 8/2/2022 at 12:43 AM, Tawpie said:

As it turns out I'm a fan of suspension because it allows me to not have to focus as much attention on the road ahead—it dials down the on-alert level just enough to be noticeable and it's quite nice actually. Enough so that I do at least think about hopping on the S18 for a routine cruise. I might ride my S18 more when I'm in town if it weren't for the soft TR1 tire-that-hates-to-turn. So maybe, just maybe, a V11. It's nowhere near as worry free as a 16X, but folks that own them love them. Although I must mention that while the V11 owners I know truly did love their wheels, they also sold them before a year was past.

I've wondered on some trails, mostly tree-root or rock-ridden ones, whether I would like suspension. But it seems like it's also a trade-off, added suspesnion means less room for battery and more maintenance. Perhaps I will change my mind in a couple of years if my knees get worse. 

Though I have to say that of all suspension wheels I would most lean towards the V11. 

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On 8/3/2022 at 6:08 AM, GreyRider said:

I have both the 16X and the V12 HS. Both are great wheels in my opinion, but I just love the V12. I actually think the extra weight of the V12 makes it a little more stable over bumps. I also ride on a lot of 35mph roads and I like being able to do the speed limit especially if a car is behind me. Both are a joy to ride and I get about the same amount of range out of both. If speed is not an issue and weight is, the 16X is probably a better choice for you.

It's a good option indeed. However, I don't know why but I don't like the look of the V12, and it seems to struggle with teething issues, unless I'm confused with a different wheel.

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5 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

and that totally explains why you also have some of the very best beer in the world.

True! We can drown our sorrows away :D ! Post-ride of course! 

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26 minutes ago, Tazarinho said:

It's a tempting wheel. But I live in an appartment with wood everywhere and am a bit reluctant to get a Begode wheel because of the potential fire hazard. And I do ride in light rain. If it's for more than a few minutes I put a backpack cover on the wheel. But this is Belgium, it's impossible to never ride in the rain (even though we had the driest July in 180 years). Together with the south of England and Wales we have pretty much the least sunshine in the world. Though allegedly the Aleutians (and some say Bergen) have more rain. ;)

You could always get a metal "box" for the wheel. I got myself one for my 18xl :D https://www.se.com/ww/en/product/NSYCRN86300P/spacial-crn-plain-door-with-mount-plate-h800xw600xd300-ip66-ik10-ral7035-/  (Even put "rockwool" inside.. So it gets somewhat insulated.)

Add some bricks under the box, drill some air vents. And the fire will be contained. Only damage from the fire would be the smoke - making everything "black".

As for rain - as i said, simply silicone everything. :D I also use backpack cover - best thing ever, for riding in rain. 

Edited by Funky
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  • 1 month later...
On 8/1/2022 at 3:42 PM, Funky said:

I have mixed the 16x and 18xl. :D

I got myself aftermarket pedals. Which lifted my whole shell upwards by ~2cm. (Also added 2cm ground clearance on pedals.) And have added 80/80-14 tire. Meaning it's little bit bigger than regular 18x2.5" tire. Even with lifted honeycomb pedals, it still feels so stable at speed.

I have almost the same ground clearance as of 16x and same time 18" M/C tire. Win-Win. :thumbup:

I also have never had problems with torque. And i weight 280lbs.


I’m interested in hearing more about the 80/80-14 tire you put on your 18XL  and a link where I could purchase it.  Also a did you have any figment issues and/or modification you needed to make.  
 

I’m new to EUCs and have an 18XL, but toying with the idea to replace it with an 16X primarily for torque and a smoother ride.  I live in an area that has both steep and bumpy roads. But if those 80/80-14 tire can smoothen out the bumps, I just may just swap tires and get power pads to help me power up the hills.

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4 hours ago, Nobuyasu said:

I’m new to EUCs and have an 18XL, but toying with the idea to replace it with an 16X primarily for torque and a smoother ride.

Having had both the 16X an 18XL for about a year now - I'll say that while the 16X has more torque on paper, the 18XL hasn't failed me yet and continues to surprise me with it's hill-climbing capabilities (in a recent ride I went up one of my biggest hills yet, ~1000 feet in altitude over about two miles going around ~15mph; ~90% charge, me being ~200lbs, not a peep from the wheel the whole time). Having lived in the Bay Area I know there are definitely some steeper roads over there but after this ride I wouldn't be too worried about taking on most of them with my 18XL.

As for ride smoothness - that 16" x 3" tire is going to make going over roots and rocks on trails much nicer than the 18" x 2.5" 18XL tire. However, once you get on pavement and get going faster than 20mph I find that it's the opposite. You feel every bump in the road on the 16X and the 16" diameter tire along with the higher pedal height means it's much more sensitive to your shifting center of gravity. I have to think a lot more about keeping my balance centered and weight between my feet even when going fast down a bumpy road on the 16X or else the wheel will start to bounce and swerve underneath me. God forbid you hit a bump you didn't see and weren't ready for - twice this weekend I came closer than I ever have before to wiping out while on a quick 10 mile ride on the 16X because of bumps I didn't see. I also find it's more susceptible to wobbles when braking hard versus the 18XL. A lot of this could be attributed to my having more experience on my 18XL than my 16X or even just plain bias; I just love my 18XL so much and I'll admit that I'm always a little disappointed when I get on the 16X. But I'd say it's not uncommon to hear people say that 16" wheels get sketchy when going faster than 25mph and are more for the "quick and nimble" rider than the cruising-type.

Anyway, rant aside, I'd say it depends on what you do more with the wheel. Off-roading on trails/quick maneuvering at lower speeds (16X) or longer stretches of cruising at higher speeds on pavement (18XL)? If you're looking for a smoother ride on pavement than the 18XL then you should probably look into a suspension wheel like the V11.

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8 hours ago, Nobuyasu said:


I’m interested in hearing more about the 80/80-14 tire you put on your 18XL  and a link where I could purchase it.  Also a did you have any figment issues and/or modification you needed to make.  
 

I’m new to EUCs and have an 18XL, but toying with the idea to replace it with an 16X primarily for torque and a smoother ride.  I live in an area that has both steep and bumpy roads. But if those 80/80-14 tire can smoothen out the bumps, I just may just swap tires and get power pads to help me power up the hills.

As @Spaghetteh said 18xl will be more smooth. Bigger diameter wheel goes more smoothly over bumps. Or get a suspension wheel, if you can't live with bumps. I originally had CST C-1488 tire, changing to K66 i didn't feel much difference. More grip for sure, but otherwise not much. I mostly did it for more robust tire.

 

 

The famous Heidenau K66 tire. Doh you need to cut the sides.

(I'm from Europe, so we got many shops here.. Also the cutting was very easy - simple box cutter. I cut the tire, before mounting to rim.) You can check my thread for some fotos.. 

It's measurements: Height where tire/rim meets 58mm. Diameter 48Cm on mark. And width was 76mm. 18xl wheel well is ~72mm wide, so you need to cut the sides of K66. After cutting the tire will be ~66mm wide.

Edited by Funky
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3 hours ago, Funky said:

The famous Heidenau K66 tire. Doh you need to cut the sides.

@Nobuyasu Note that you also need to lift the shell to have enough vertical clearance for the K66 to fit, since that tire has a higher profile than the stock tire. This shell lifting happens automatically if you order and install the Hextech pedals which come with custom pedal hangers which produce the lifting (the axle sits lower with respect to the shell as compared to stock hangers). Alternatively, people have lifted the shell using stock hangers and screwing it to the shell in a lower position (by aligning the hanger screw holes with lower than intended shell holes). However this compromises the rigidity of the EUC and ideally should be accompanied by some DIY body reinforcements. 

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42 minutes ago, yoos said:

@Nobuyasu Note that you also need to lift the shell to have enough vertical clearance for the K66 to fit, since that tire has a higher profile than the stock tire. This shell lifting happens automatically if you order and install the Hextech pedals which come with custom pedal hangers which produce the lifting (the axle sits lower with respect to the shell as compared to stock hangers). Alternatively, people have lifted the shell using stock hangers and screwing it to the shell in a lower position (by aligning the hanger screw holes with lower than intended shell holes). However this compromises the rigidity of the EUC and ideally should be accompanied by some DIY body reinforcements. 

The original 1488 tire diameter is 47.5Cm. I even said that in my tread. I don't think you need to lift anything.. Even when i had the original tire i could somewhat put my finger in wheel well. Meaning there is enough space for K66 80/80-14 which is 5mm bigger at 48Cm diameter.

If you got like 5mm space between shell and middle of tire. Then K66 should fit without any lifting. Fastest test would be: Try shoving in a pencil, if pencil goes in the wheel well - you got enough height clearance. As you need to half the 5mm difference, meaning the real height clearance is only ~3mm higher, which should easily fit without lifting the shell.

Tire height 1488 ~53mm. K66 height ~58mm. 5mm difference. And that 5mm difference is halved, because tire sits on rim and rim sits on axle.

2.5mm<5mm>2.5mm If you got 4mm+ height clearance. You can easily fit K66 without any rubbing. (Doh you need to measure your original tire diameter to be 100% sure..)

Edited by Funky
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12 minutes ago, Funky said:

The original 1488 tire diameter is 47.5Cm. I even said that in my tread. I don't think you need to lift anything.

Perhaps, but you only tried it with the hextech hangers :) Fitting K66 with stock hangers might be a gamble: the distance between shell and tire is not the same everywhere so there's a slight danger the K66 will scrape somewhere (even if pencils fit in many places near the shell opening)

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3 minutes ago, yoos said:

Perhaps, but you only tried it with the hextech hangers :) Fitting K66 with stock hangers might be a gamble: the distance between shell and tire is not the same everywhere so there's a slight danger the K66 will scrape somewhere (even if pencils fit in many places near the shell opening)

I updated my post - reread. :D You need about 3-4mm height clearance. My finger is a lot fatter than 3-4mm.. :D Anyone can measure their tire diameter at home. And then see if 48cm will fit.

Edited by Funky
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@Spaghetteh @Funky - Thanks for all the info and feedback!  I think for now I’ll stick with my 18xl a bit longer and just practice riding more before making any hast decisions on changing wheels.
 

@Spaghetteh - The 18xl does do okay up steep hills.  I just find myself needing to move my feet really forward on the pedals “and” I need to have one foot pressing down pretty hard on the pedal to gain acceleration.  If I use both feet when doing this, the wheel starts to wobble as I gain speed while accelerating.  This feeling isn’t fun when your a newbie even if it’s going uphill.  I just thought I’d have to do a lot less work on the 16x to get up and moving quickly uphills.  I assume getting Clark Pads on my 18xl or something similar will help out significantly to get moving uphills without needing to put so much work/effort?  Thoughts?  

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Can't really talk about hills and what not. (Everything is flat where i'm from.)

Doh when i'm riding on straight flat road 1/3 of my feet is over the pedal - because i don't need to lean forwards to keep moving forwards. (Yes it was "sketchy" riding like that, but over time i got used to it.)

Also the ankles need to be level with pedal "L" hangers to feel the best on wheel. (Yes it feels amazing, when i got my ankles same position as the "L" hangers. But my feet is 1/3 over front of the pedals.. That's why i ride like that only on flat/straight roads.)

 

 

I think you will have the same problem on any wheel. - Pedals are the same, the input needed to wheel to move - will be the same. Bigger wheel will only have more power/speed. Pedals will be the same. Just reposition the feet, more forwards when going up hill..

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2 hours ago, Nobuyasu said:

Clark Pads on my 18xl or something similar will help out significantly to get moving uphills without needing to put so much work/effort?

Pads can definitely help, but until you get used to them they also can throw your balance off. Accelerating up a hill, particularly if you're a normal sized rider, takes beaucoup energy and you do want to be careful that you don't overlean/overheat your wheel. Revel in the simple pleasure of knowing you're going up the hill quickly, without breaking even the tiniest sweat!

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