16x for a fatso?

[Tawpie]

7 minutes ago, No1up said:

Should I get the fast charger?

Doesn't hurt. I don't trust my eWheels fast charger to actually balance, so when I'm in a hurry I connect the fast at 3A set to cutoff at 90% and I connect the stock 2.5A to the second port. This brings it up quickly (5.5A total, higher than that and it beeps constantly) and finishes and balances with the stock charger.

I haven't done actual testing, but I think the finish+balance actually takes a lot longer with my process than it does if you just use the 2.5A stock for the whole thing. It just feels that way, and there's an app note on the inter webs somewhere that says fast CC charge will cause the CV portion of the charge cycle to be quite a bit longer.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Tawpie

[.....]

2 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Doesn't hurt. I don't trust my eWheels fast charger to actually balance, so when I'm in a hurry I connect the fast at 3A set to cutoff at 90% and I connect the stock 2.5A to the second port. This brings it up quickly (5.5A total, higher than that and it beeps constantly) and finishes and balances with the stock charger.

I haven't done actual testing, but I think the finish+balance actually takes a lot longer with my process than it does if you just use the 2.5A stock for the whole thing. It just feels that way, and there's an app note on the inter webs somewhere that says fast CC charge will cause the CV portion of the charge cycle to be quite a bit longer.

Agreed. I dont trust my e-wheels to fully balance either. Im not saying it doesnt, Im just not saying I trust it. I do like it for most charging tho. Its nice to be able to set the amperage. I have used the lesser charge modes (80%) before, when I planned on not riding for a few weeks. Every now and then I break out the stock chargers and let them sit for a while...

[meepmeepmayer]

43 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I don't trust my eWheels fast charger to actually balance

39 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I dont trust my e-wheels to fully balance either.

Do you have any reason/intuition for that?

Because the charger doesn't balance anything. The battery pack does it. And the end of the charging process is the same for any charger, as the current goes towards zero then. Right?

[Tawpie]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Do you have any reason/intuition for that?

Because, when the charge voltage hits 84V, and as soon as it hits 84V (measurement accuracy notwithstanding!), it simply turns off. It doesn't idle at 84V like the stock charger does. Is it top balanced? Perhaps, but I don't think the accuracy is good to the 1/10th of a volt at that range.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 minute ago, Tawpie said:

Because, when the charge voltage hits 84V, and as soon as it hits 84V (measurement accuracy notwithstanding!), it simply turns off.

Well then the case is clear. How can ewheels sell something like this? They should know better.

-

Maxbe an extra stock charger would be better then? The 16X has two charge ports.

[Tawpie]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

They should know better.

They should. When I asked though, they said "it's fine, works great". If I can figure out how to get a charge control graph out of EUCWorld, I'll verify with data... right now, it's one of those "why did it just turn off... it should have taken longer than that" not-good-feelings.

[Tawpie]

7 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Maxbe an extra stock charger would be better then? The 16X has two charge ports.

That would work swell as well. Cheaper too (I think). But you do lose the ability to stop charge at 80% for storage purposes, a 'problem' I've yet to encounter!

[No1up]

I like the fast charger. The ability to set it to 80% for storage is great. Speed things up if I need or slow it down if not in a hurry. If I’m home and not in a hurry I can use the stock one. 

[wstuart]

3 hours ago, No1up said:

I think 27 tops is fine with me. Should I get the fast charger?

I would.  The stock one is 1.5 amps which was painfully slow. I have an 84.4 Ewheels charger that I use with my v10f, V11 and 16x (using different adapters). 

Mine can do 6 amps but only do 4 amps on the 16x.  I think I read somewhere the kingsongs don't like more than 5 amps.....

[No1up]

On 5/20/2022 at 11:27 AM, Dosingpsychedelics said:

I’m the same weight as you I was thinking about the 16x then decided on the rs19 high speed .the thing is a beast.it’s nimble and I can carve the shit outta it.it has a ton of torque and top speed I’ve already hit 73 kph .i bought mine from ewheels and they gave me the new begode spiked pedals ,mudguard ,begode power pads ,wrist guards all for free.also sent me a extra reinforced  rs shell cuz of issues with screw posts on a recent batch I will definately buy from them again 😎👌🏻

How are the speakers on it? And what’s wrong with the shell they come in? 🤔

[Tawpie]

On 5/22/2022 at 4:13 PM, wstuart said:

I think I read somewhere the kingsongs don't like more than 5 amps.....

They're happy up to 5.5A. At 6A they beep constantly.

[wstuart]

On 5/22/2022 at 1:33 PM, Tawpie said:

Because, when the charge voltage hits 84V, and as soon as it hits 84V (measurement accuracy notwithstanding!), it simply turns off. It doesn't idle at 84V like the stock charger does. Is it top balanced? Perhaps, but I don't think the accuracy is good to the 1/10th of a volt at that range.

Wow really.  My ewheels charger goes to 84.4 every time. 

I had experienced that my 100v ewheels gotway charger seemed to only go to 98 volts.  But when I tested it again yesterday it went all the way to 100.8.  IDK.

 

I have a slight suspicion that when I flip between different charge rates and battery % on the ewheels charger it gets confused.  - I think thats what happened before but it's just a guess. 

[wstuart]

1 hour ago, No1up said:

How are the speakers on it? And what’s wrong with the shell they come in? 🤔

I love the speakers on this thing!! Really clear base! 

[Tawpie]

39 minutes ago, wstuart said:

My ewheels charger goes to 84.4 every time. 

How long does it stay at 84.4 before it shuts off? My distrust is due to it not idling at the 'fully charged' voltage for the time necessary for top balancing to work. I thought maybe (unlikely, but maybe) mine was not operating properly but eWheels assured me it's fine... so I use it to get to 90% and it shuts off—then I finish and balance with the stock charger (that doesn't turn off until I unplug the AC power cable).

It probably doesn't really matter, but I'm a bit paranoid. Ok, fair enough... I'm a lot paranoid—replacement batteries are expensive and fire, well, it's fire. So I do what I can to take the best care of the packs that I can—and honestly, it's not a big deal.

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

6 hours ago, No1up said:

How are the speakers on it? And what’s wrong with the shell they come in? 🤔

Speakers are awesome !the inner shell the receiver screw posts inside the shell were weak on some shells in this newest batch not sure if it was a molding problem or something but ewheels delivered me some reinforced ones with my wheel and took 100$ off my wheel cuz I said I’d Swap them myself .they said they were in the process of changing them all out but were low on manpower to do it .so I was cool with that .I’m still using the original shell I haven’t swapped them out ..Its nice having the backup shell around just incase I take a big tumble .lol

[Tazarinho]

On 5/21/2022 at 5:01 AM, No1up said:

So it can’t do the 31mph at our weight? I refuse to buy a begode wheel and I love the lights on the 16x

To me that would be like playing Russian roulette, with only one or two empty chambers...

It was originally a 25 mph wheel. But then GotWay released the Nikola at the same time. It seems that to compete, KingSong swapped their 2000W motor with a 2200W and advertised the same top speed, without optimizing or testing enough. The result was quite a few faceplants over 25 mph.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Tazarinho

[Tawpie]

9 hours ago, Tazarinho said:

To me that would be like playing Russian roulette, with only one or two empty chambers...

Perfectly said!

Not that I've ever had a cutout on my 16X (which is really a 16XS controller with double the battery—16XSLR?), but KS seems to be very/overly aggressive about protecting the electronics from overburden and subsequent failure. When you're above 25 mph, you really are near the knife's edge and bumps and slight balance correction leans can and will take you to a place where the knife will cut power.

Given the 16X's 6P configuration, there really isn't a solid reason why they cut it off so eagerly. But they do, and if you go there very often, you will lose.

[wstuart]

On 5/23/2022 at 9:03 PM, Tawpie said:

How long does it stay at 84.4 before it shuts off? My distrust is due to it not idling at the 'fully charged' voltage for the time necessary for top balancing to work. I thought maybe (unlikely, but maybe) mine was not operating properly but eWheels assured me it's fine... so I use it to get to 90% and it shuts off—then I finish and balance with the stock charger (that doesn't turn off until I unplug the AC power cable).

It probably doesn't really matter, but I'm a bit paranoid. Ok, fair enough... I'm a lot paranoid—replacement batteries are expensive and fire, well, it's fire. So I do what I can to take the best care of the packs that I can—and honestly, it's not a big deal.

Thankyou Tawpie.  I totally copied this charge setup.  That last 10% on the stock charger took forever still, but the first 90% went super fast. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by wstuart

[No1up]

6 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Perfectly said!

Not that I've ever had a cutout on my 16X (which is really a 16XS controller with double the battery—16XSLR?), but KS seems to be very/overly aggressive about protecting the electronics from overburden and subsequent failure. When you're above 25 mph, you really are near the knife's edge and bumps and slight balance correction leans can and will take you to a place where the knife will cut power.

Given the 16X's 6P configuration, there really isn't a solid reason why they cut it off so eagerly. But they do, and if you go there very often, you will lose.

Why would it cut out though… shouldn’t it do tilt back before the cut out? Jason at ewheels said it should handle 28mph no problem 

[.....]

21 minutes ago, No1up said:

Why would it cut out though… shouldn’t it do tilt back before the cut out? Jason at ewheels said it should handle 28mph no problem 

Theres a thread around here about it somewhere. It has something to do with the rpm of the rim and the frequency of the motor, iirc.  It cant handle 28mph PERIOD, as max is more like 27mph. The 31mph they claim is wildly overstated. I think most owners are reporting that 25mph (22mph actual) is much safer. If you want to ride the wheel in excess of 20mph, you should be aware that it doesnt have as much headroom as the 18xl does. In contrast, the 18xl has been KNOWN to handle its top speed of 27mph and still have headroom to spare. KS wheels once had the reputation of being a little conservative AND building dependable wheels. The 16x and 18xl are the last of those to follow this ideology. If you are already pondering top speed ability of wheels at 27mph, you may want to look towards something faster. The 16x is a great wheel, but speed is NOT its forte. I think the 16x shines in lower speed and torque, where the 18xl shines in comfort and reliability nearer its top speeds.

I feel that some people are putting too much faith in tiltbacks and beeps. The KS tiltback IS a great feature, but its not a great idea to rely on it. I view tiltbacks as a stern warning that you have ALREADY screwed up. Tiltbacks and warning do NOT read the future. They also arent capable of knowing what you are going to ask of the wheel in a moments notice. If you are relying on the wheel to save you from yourself, while knowingly pushing its limits... YOU will be learning quickly the difference between riding smartly and expecting some inaccurate battery readings to save you. Riding smartly becomes even MORE important if you ride among cars/people or dont suit up like a soldier going to war. Knowing limitations and respecting them, while using your brain, is a much better solution than beeps/tiltback and plastic body armor. Of course, this only applies when you know the TRUTH about what to expect and don't blindly listen to the hype a manufacturer tells you. Lets not forget, the wheels dont know how heavy you are either. A tiltback on my `125lb ass, leaves more safety room than a tiltback for a 200lbs person. If you want to ride 20mph, you need a 30mph wheel (if you're heavy). If you want to cruise at 30mph, you need a 40+mph wheel. Anyone wanting to ride 40+mph, needs definitely look to the 50mph wheels. Of course, safety and headroom declines as battery level drops. It also declines as battery health ages. Cold weather is also a big factor...

Edited May 26, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[Tawpie]

36 minutes ago, No1up said:

Why would it cut out though… shouldn’t it do tilt back before the cut out?

Tiltback is actually the wheel racing ahead to get in front of your center of gravity and it can only happen when the motor has enough additional power to get itself ahead of you. When you are already near max power that little acceleration to initiate tiltback might actually be enough to overpower the wheel and result in an overpower cutout. Tiltback seems to be based solely on the speedometer and not on operational power demand, so it's kind of a not so good safety mechanism (see the PWM based reset-the-tiltback-speed effort).

What seems to be happening with the 16X is that yes, it'll let you go 30 mph and it might (it doesn't) have enough power to tilt you back if the speedometer sees 31. BUT, at that speed it doesn't have enough power for anything else. No bumps. No micro shifting your weight forward. No potholes. No gusts of wind. No slight hills. No acceleration. I haven't the courage to try to see how fast it'll go downhill, when 'forward' power isn't in high demand... you might be ok. But you might need extensive physical therapy too. This is definitely a case of "take the community's word for it".

Edited May 26, 2022 by Tawpie

[Funky]

Off topic..

But what would the "real" max speed for 18xl be then? also 27mph? As i'm riding 22-25mph nowadays.. And i'm much heavier 280lbs. Wanted to know if i'm not riding at my wheels limit..  Doh i never have felt tilt back. As i always slow down, when i hear my speed alarm at 25mph.

[No1up]

Well I’ve been riding at 29 mph for a bit.. seems ok, guess we will find out. Waiting for the Master.

[wstuart]

51 minutes ago, Funky said:

Off topic..

But what would the "real" max speed for 18xl be then? also 27mph? As i'm riding 22-25mph nowadays.. And i'm much heavier 280lbs. Wanted to know if i'm not riding at my wheels limit..  Doh i never have felt tilt back. As i always slow down, when i hear my speed alarm at 25mph.

 

5 minutes ago, No1up said:

Well I’ve been riding at 29 mph for a bit.. seems ok, guess we will find out. Waiting for the Master.

I would listen to these guys and keep it below 26.  Since reading this thread I have changed how I ride my 16x.  I now don't go above 26mph.  I was visiting 30mph before. I think the only thing that saved me was that I never rode it below 70%

I'm 6'8" 225 without gear.  I absolutely think you can ride 16xs and 18xls and "get away with it"  I did for quite some time.  The problem is that us big guys go from being fine to cutout way faster than smaller guys.  

Let's say I'm cruising at 26mph slightly up hill, and a gust of wind come up.  No big deal if I'm a foot shorter and 40lbs lighter, but that gust put me on the razors edge and I don't even know it.  Then I adjust my weight or hit a small bump and boom I'm down, where the lighter rider stays up.  

I now keep it 22mph and lower on slight up hills and I no longer cross the trolley tracks at 27mph like I was before.  

What's deceiving g is the 16x really feels like it could do it.  It has so much torque even at thebtop of its range, that you just can't even feel the wheel straining.  

[No1up]

4 minutes ago, wstuart said:

 

I would listen to these guys and keep it below 26.  Since reading this thread I have changed how I ride my 16x.  I now don't go above 26mph.  I was visiting 30mph before. I think the only thing that saved me was that I never rode it below 70%

I'm 6'8" 225 without gear.  I absolutely think you can ride 16xs and 18xls and "get away with it"  I did for quite some time.  The problem is that us big guys go from being fine to cutout way faster than smaller guys.  

Let's say I'm cruising at 26mph slightly up hill, and a gust of wind come up.  No big deal if I'm a foot shorter and 40lbs lighter, but that gust put me on the razors edge and I don't even know it.  Then I adjust my weight or hit a small bump and boom I'm down, where the lighter rider stays up.  

I now keep it 22mph and lower on slight up hills and I no longer cross the trolley tracks at 27mph like I was before.  

What's deceiving g is the 16x really feels like it could do it.  It has so much torque even at thebtop of its range, that you just can't even feel the wheel straining.  

Well would 26 be good? I usually touch 28mph and back off. I don’t tend to ride at that speed sustained. My actual avg speed is like 16min lol. But on clean straights I push a little. I was debating an EXN but the Master just looks so good…  it the EXN is proven, idk 😭 I’d get the hero from alien rides but it runs the LG50 battery pack.