Trying to decide between S18 & V11 for city use

[CrumbsAndYums]

Hi, lurker deciding to take the plunge into EUCs and trying to decide between a S18 and V11.

I'm <70kg (~150lbs) using this for getting around a city on mixed terrain - footpaths of varying quality, bike paths, and very bumpy cobblestones. I've never ridden an EUC before but I'm confident that I'll be able to persist and learn it.

I've ridden escooters with and without suspension in my city, and the experience without suspension has been awful despite having bent legs to take some of the shock. That experience coupled with my aging knees + back are why I've been looking at suspension wheels.

My trips and under 4km (~2.5mi) and the local speed limit is 25kph (~15.5mph), so I believe both wheels will be fine for speed & range. Anything more than that would be excessive for me. The longest distance I'd have to ride between charges would be 20km (~12.5mi). 

I've read of the S18 build issues at launch, but it sounds like it has been addressed in the recent iterations. And similarly, I've read about V11 bearings which are supposed to have been fixed too... so I think both would be fairly safe bets right now.

If I had to rank the attributes in order of priority I'd say:

1. Won't spontaneously catch fire.
2. Ergonomics & Ride comfort (shitty city terrain)
3. Reliability
4. Build quality
5. Other features worth mentioning?

What would you recommend?

[OldFartRides]

Even though I like my s18’s, I’ve been convinced that the v11 is the better of the two. Someday I’d like to ride one. Unlikely tho, as I’m in a rural area with no other riders. I still like my “learner” 16s. Nimble and portable it is.

Best,

Edited December 13, 2021 by OldFartRides
P.S. Welcome to the forum !

[The Brahan Seer]

I chose the S18 because I liked the implementation of the suspension with damper control etc. Its relatively light 25kgs. The panels are very easy to change and very cheap. So after bashing it up learning you can make it look good as new for $100 if you so wish. I like how it looks and the speed and range suits my needs too. Its great off road on all terrains. I have had no issues with mine and it got dropped frequently in the past (hundreds of times). Works in the wet and snow.  I haven't ridden or seen a V11 so can't compare or comment on it. I think its great as a learner wheel though not the most powerful its more than enough to get you started and will likely compliment other wheels in the future. 

[Richardo]

I ride my V11 in a similar situation to what you describe, except my commute is 5 miles each way.

The V11 excels at this. Handles speed bumps, potholes, shortcuts through parks, transitions to gravel, spontaneously ending sidewalks, rain, and curbs with aplomb. Low speed riding works well enough for me, but it is not easy to ride at a walking speed in a crowd of people, and if I must do that, I jump off and use the trolley handle, which is great. Don't know how the s18 fares in that situation.

The v11 is big, and relatively heavy, but I don't have a problem carrying it up stairs, wheeling it past security, or bringing it into the office. Security stops people from taking bikes or scooters into the office, and won't let you take 'equipment' in the non-freight elevator, so something about v11's look passes muster. The s18 looks a lot more flashy, and might attract their attention in a way that could cause me trouble.

Now, I think I could make the s18 work in the same situation, despite its lower battery capacity. However, they're priced too close and I really love the best headlight in the game (v11). I almost bought a used s18 with the fancy Russian leather pads for $1400 and that would have made sense with all the tradeoffs, but barring a terrific deal like that, I feel comfortable recommending the v11

[Tawpie]

Both wheels do well in your checklist so no worries there... @Paulo Mesquita rides on cobblestone streets and has owned both—he had unusual initial quality problems with his S18s and I believe has settled on and is quite happy with a V11 but could give you first hand impressions about riding on the cobbles.

In your 'other' category I'm told that adding hex pedals on the V11 makes it much much easier to lift it into a car trunk because the holes in the pedals give you something to grab—otherwise it's rather awkward. The InMotion pedals were the replacement of choice. Grabbing the gold part of the S18 suspension makes it cake to lift and maneuver around, even I can do it without issue (or cursing).

This is second hand information... I don't own and haven't ridden a V11: the local owners absolutely love their V11s but the hangover from their early batch bearing issues means they still don't ride them in the wet and honestly, I haven't seen many (any?) in the big weekly group ride recently. I think the V11 crew is all on Shermans now (but that speaks more to their evolving ride style than it does the wheel itself).

Edited December 13, 2021 by Tawpie

[Unventor]

I have a (or rather two) V11. But I have not tried the S18. 

So I ride my V11 mostly in the city. I use my EUC as I would use my car. Any Time I need to travel from A to B somewhere to C and then back again. 

I do this all 4 seasons. And I have yet to have any bearing issues. I also do pleasure rides or cruises. Those can be trails in the woods or just longer than usual on bike lanes. 

Now I have a bad back and sore knees. The V11 simply was a new level of ride to me. To some suspension might not matter but for me it has been long at the moon but going to Mars. It has taken my EUC longer than before in ride types and how far I ride and where I ride and how I ride. 

There are a few things though I would recommend as mods.

One is the mudguard. Stock mudguard is just too short and benafit of being slightly wider. 

Second is the spiked hex pedals either from Inmotion or someone else. I had Inmotion version. They just add the dot over the i. And as @Tawpie said makes it easier to lift up the wheel. Especially with my bad back. You can lift it by just grabbing it at the suspension parts lower chamber, but the hex makes it much easier.

I like the trolley on the V11 a lot. Mostly when trolley ING I don't raise it to locked position. 

Now if you can I would suggest getting a K66 80/90-14 tire too. Especially if you ride slower than walking speeds. This can be extremely fun and you can make people drop jaws as they see how great it can be to crowd surfing in busy pedestrian areas. 

Lastly it isn't a must but a second charger can be handy. Either to dual charge or as a second place of charging. Since I have 3 chargers I have 2 for fast charging at home and 1 at work. 

If you more input go to the review section where you see my V11 next lever of riding thread. 

Note on bearing: Inmotion now have an extra factory outer seal on the motor to protect the bearing. It should make safer to use the wheel without worrying about bearing problems. I use my wheel but I don't abuse it. And I have done it in summer dusty times in rain and in salty ice/snow conditions. I don't aim for riding in water but sometimes there is no other way. 

I would say the V11 has matured and like to make a nice travel companion. It is not the fastest on the block. But it is great all around balanced. 

A small note on the S18. It might be a nice wheel too but as I understand it, it has a battery pack that cannot deliver what the motor can ask for if pushed hard. On paper the numbers is not in its favour, if you are an aggressive rider or just need to accelerate out of a situation. There is always a weak link. Imo though the battery pack should not be it. 

[Scottie]

6 hours ago, Richardo said:

Security stops people from taking bikes or scooters into the office, and won't let you take 'equipment' in the non-freight elevator, so something about v11's look passes muster.

Agreed. The V11 has something of an 'official look' to it. So does the black 18XL.

[Unventor]

I guess you need a suit case or cello case to dress up the wheel for proper office dress code. 

Personally I would option for the cello case. And have a violin in it. If they ask questions just answer, you start small but aim big. 🤣

Edited December 13, 2021 by Unventor
I couldn't help myself to add a bit extra.

[Hellkitten]

Sorry for the semi derail! I couldn’t resist. 

I’ll throw my bias opinion in the ring, I’m loving my V11, but it’s the only wheel I’ve ridden. I bet there is a bunch of new suspension eucs coming out next year if you wait and want more variety to pick from. 

[Mango]

Things I don’t like about my S18.

1. Steppy motor. It is not smooth.

2. Underpowered because of the 3p battery configuration. S18 is a cut-out wheel.

3. Trolley handle is the worst implementation I’ve ever used. Very annoying. Keeps popping out when doing jumps. Fingers get caught when lifting wheel if you’re not careful. Flimsy.

4. Speed alarms/beeps are very muted, pretty much useless.

5. Battery level indicators are useless/non-existent. Expect to pull out your phone, launch KS or Darknessbot app everytime to check your levels.

6. Very poor ergonomics and quality of life features.

7. Stock street tires will need to replaced with off-road knobbies to really make the wheel perform well. Never did a tire change… dreading the thought.

8. Build quality and materials are iffy. New wheel smell has the terrible odour of really cheap plastic that takes months to air out. Peeling grip tape.

All these deficiencies makes the V11 the clear winner for city/overall use.

[CrumbsAndYums]

19 hours ago, Richardo said:

The V11 excels at this. Handles speed bumps, potholes, shortcuts through parks, transitions to gravel, spontaneously ending sidewalks, rain, and curbs with aplomb. Low speed riding works well enough for me, but it is not easy to ride at a walking speed in a crowd of people, and if I must do that, I jump off and use the trolley handle, which is great. Don't know how the s18 fares in that situation.

Does the higher pedal height make it hard to ride at slow speeds? or is it something else? That's something that I expect to deal with in the city.

 

17 hours ago, Tawpie said:

In your 'other' category I'm told that adding hex pedals on the V11 makes it much much easier to lift it into a car trunk because the holes in the pedals give you something to grab—otherwise it's rather awkward. The InMotion pedals were the replacement of choice. Grabbing the gold part of the S18 suspension makes it cake to lift and maneuver around, even I can do it without issue (or cursing).

That's a good point. I initially thought that it'd be harder to lift the the V11 into the boot but I never considered the possibility of using hex pedals. Will definitely get some if I end up with a V11.

 

19 hours ago, Richardo said:

The v11 is big, and relatively heavy, but I don't have a problem carrying it up stairs, wheeling it past security, or bringing it into the office. Security stops people from taking bikes or scooters into the office, and won't let you take 'equipment' in the non-freight elevator, so something about v11's look passes muster. The s18 looks a lot more flashy, and might attract their attention in a way that could cause me trouble.

I never considered if office security would stop me (either now or at the new building).The stock V11 does look pretty unassuming next to the S18 and other high power wheels.

 

@Mango have you ridden a V11? I'd love a direct comparison of the suspension for city riding.

 

[Unventor]

11 minutes ago, CrumbsAndYums said:

Does the higher pedal height make it hard to ride at slow speeds? or is it something else? That's something that I expect to deal with in the city.

Yes and no it depends. 😏

It can be improved a lot from stock tire to the K66 tire I mentioned earlier. 

Note: picture from Inmotion V10f launch. The thing to look at is the center line points and the foot hold points. 

 

If you move pedals up higher then your turning technique is a big part of what risk you take while turning. The more you lean sideways the bigger risk you have for a sideway slide out in gravel/loose sand/wet grass/snow/ice conditions. It is all about traction vs center of gravity/pivot point of the wheel and in relation to the rider.  As long you don't lean sideways but only twist your shoulder then you have little risk over all. If you use bending one knee to turn., then you have most of the weight over the wheel and it is at risk of slide out but not as much as a full side lean. 

I tend to combo knee bending and shoulder twisting to turn at slow speed. But riding in snow/icy conditions at winter time is a skill in itself to master. And to change to as winter season starts. 

I don't have a selfmade video of turning techniques but you can find them them from people talk g about learning to ride. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Unventor

[The Brahan Seer]

1 hour ago, CrumbsAndYums said:

Does the higher pedal height make it hard to ride at slow speeds? or is it something else? That's something that I expect to deal with in the city.

 I can ride very slow (less than walking speed) very easily. But I would expect to be able to do this with any wheel. Whether it is harder to learn on a suspension wheel I don't know. Put the hours in practicing and you will be able to master it too.

[CrumbsAndYums]

Bumping the thread to thank everyone for your replies. I've officially joined the club with a V11.

I settled on the V11 due to the comments in this thread, an the reviews elsewhere on this forum (thanks @Unventor).

Now, time for me to hit the learning forum.

[.....]

On 12/19/2021 at 2:00 AM, CrumbsAndYums said:

Bumping the thread to thank everyone for your replies. I've officially joined the club with a V11.

I settled on the V11 due to the comments in this thread, an the reviews elsewhere on this forum (thanks @Unventor).

Now, time for me to hit the learning forum.

Forums can slow you down in learning, if you would otherwise actualy be atop the wheel. You are already on the path of overthinking it. Stand, lean, enjoy. Be patient, suspension wheels are a little higher cog so it takes a tad more learning. One of these days I may try another suspension wheel, but I'm no hurry, quite the opposite. Keep us posted how goes.