Inmotion V13 Speculation

[techyiam]

Regarding Dawn Champion's first speed test video, very appreciative of her to volunteer to take a 116 lbs suspension wheel to top speed, and show us the raw footage. She herself is only 5'4", and on her second ride.

Some observations:

(1) Personally, I consider the top speed of a wheel to be the highest speed that can be attained before the start of tilt back (or beeps) on a flat road without wind, regardless what the manufacturer claims.

(2) It is good to know that a small light person can accelerate to top speed on a V13. Braking seemed OK too. She didn't complain about lack of stopping power. My Abrams out of the box was not like that. Adding capacitors to the controller and updating the firmware completely change that though. 

(3) The roads she was on did not appear to be of freeway quality and condition. Some parts of the road surface were damaged, and the wheel jiggle some. Gutsy rider, and good showing by the V13.

(4) There were no sidewalks nor pedestrian traffic where she rode. I would not have wore a tether, especially for such a heavy wheel, and a light rider. I would not tether myself to a motorcycle either.

(5) On my V12, top speed tilt back is not a suggestion. The wheel will decrease pedal sensitivity. I personally would not have fought the tilt back. Travelling 55 mph on a so so, wet road fighting top speed tilt back is not for the faint of heart.

Edited January 5, 2023 by techyiam

[novazeus]

3 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Regarding Dawn Champion's first speed test video, very appreciative of her to volunteer to take a 116 lbs suspension wheel to top speed, and show us the raw footage. She herself is only 5'4", and on her second ride.

Some observations:

(1) Personally, I consider the top speed of a wheel to be the highest speed that can be attained before the start of tilt back (or beeps) on a flat road without wind, regardless what the manufacturer claims.

(2) It is good to know that a small light person can accelerate to top speed on a V13. Braking seemed OK too. She didn't complain about lack of stopping power. My Abrams out of the box was not like that. Adding capacitors to the controller and updating firmware completely change that though. 

(3) The roads she was on did not appear to be of freeway quality and condition. Some parts of the road surface were damaged, and the wheel jiggle some. Gutsy rider, and good showing by the V13.

(4) There were no sidewalks nor pedestrian traffic where she rode. I would not have wore a tether, especially for such a heavy wheel, and a light rider. I would not tether myself to a motorcycle either.

(5) On my V12, top speed tilt back is not a suggestion. The wheel will decrease pedal sensitivity. I personally would not have fought the tilt back. Travelling 55 mph on a so so road fighting top speed tilt back is not for the faint of heart.

her motorcycle chops were evident in that video. i'm no wobble expert, but when my s18 wobbles a bit(because of the shit tire king song put on it) i just let it get it out of it's system after a couple of wobbles and she trues up again. i woulda loved to have the tire kuji had in the demo video.

i agree with all ur points. if it tilts back, i make note of it and try to stay off tilt. course in the old days, we were maybe doing 15 -20 mph, haha, not 55. much bigger couones than me, even when i was younger. i've been in quite a few vehicle road crashes. best i stay off them. humans texting while driving is a recipe for disaster. or t-boning my zo6. course in florida, they'll run up on the sidewalk to run over u.

number one protection gear, glock model 27 in a galco fanny pack. waaaay to many rednecks and hoodlums in florida not to carry.

[Josiah]

7 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

V13 Owner's Manual: https://voltride.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Inmotion-V13-ENG.pdf 

 

Their "after each use, fully recharge" advice is bad, in my opinion, because: 
+ Batteries are more hazardous and more vulnerable when fully charged. It's safer to move, store, or otherwise manipulate them not-fully-charged.
+ Batteries age (wear out) more quickly when stored fully charged.
Oh well, they'll still last a very long time in an EUC (>10,000 miles ridden), even with worst-case storage.

"Smart chip inside the battery recording the charge-discharge logs"
Hmm, hopefully not the FutureMotion kind...

 

If you plan to ride daily would you then keep it fully charged?

Sounds like their main concern regarding performance is letting the battery go too low.  And regarding fire  the main risk is storing it in sunlight in a hot car in summer.  Good to know.  Both things I might have done wrong.

[UPONIT]

10 hours ago, novazeus said:

if someone was really concerned, it wouldn't be difficult to build a quarter inch thick steel box to store them in.

That's called a bomb.

florida is vastly different from las vegas or texas. .

They aren't battling a Burmese python invasion. What's the bounty? $20 per?

7 hours ago, novazeus said:

i didn't see it. 

plug the charger in first, then the wheel, or plug the wheel in first, then the charger?

i thought i used to plug the wheel  in before the charger on my old wheels, but this bluetti wants the charger plugged in first. i'll do whatever, if somebody will tell me what is correct, or does it not matter with a wheel.

Charger then wheel, except for modern-er wheels that have anti-spark protection.

2 minutes ago, Josiah said:

If you plan to ride daily would you then keep it fully charged?

Sounds like their main concern regarding performance is letting the battery go too low.  And regarding fire  the main risk is storing it in sunlight in a hot car in summer.  Good to know.  Both things I might have done wrong.

Just don't go down steep hills on a fully charged battery...

[Hellkitten]

https://t.me/EUCVancouver/13395

[Rawnei]

9 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

V13 Owner's Manual: https://voltride.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Inmotion-V13-ENG.pdf

Their "after each use, fully recharge" advice is bad, in my opinion, because: 
+ Batteries are more hazardous and more vulnerable when fully charged. It's safer to move, store, or otherwise manipulate them not-fully-charged.
+ Batteries age (wear out) more quickly when stored fully charged.
Oh well, they'll still last a very long time in an EUC (>10,000 miles ridden), even with worst-case storage.

"Smart chip inside the battery recording the charge-discharge logs"
Hmm, hopefully not the FutureMotion kind...

 

Maybe they want to counter the 80% myth that's been floating around forever which is good I guess, would be easy for them to add a long term storage section below that.

[rebeuc]

Here's a longer video from the same day as the video posted recently with the slow mountain traffic; looks like the slow traffic was only a small part of it so it's odd that the earlier video focused on that!

 

[techyiam]

It is encouraging to see a light rider like Dawn, 5'4", can accelerate well on her first ride on the V13 up a mountain. According to Marty, that's a 118 lbs wheel.

All I heard in the past was that big  heavy wheels, such as Monster Pro, EX20S, and Abrams should only be ridden by big heavy guys. And that they are too ponderous. 

Dynamically, the V13 is sounding promising. 

 

[Rawnei]

14 minutes ago, techyiam said:

It is encouraging to see a light rider like Dawn, 5'4", can accelerate well on her first ride on the V13 up a mountain. According to Marty, that's a 118 lbs wheel.

All I heard in the past was that big  heavy wheels, such as Monster Pro, EX20S, and Abrams should only be ridden by big heavy guys. And that they are too ponderous. 

Dynamically, the V13 is sounding promising. 

 

All wheels work the same, you lean they go, it's when things get more technical that you feel the weight.

[techyiam]

18 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

All wheels work the same, you lean they go, it's when things get more technical that you feel the weight.

Try out an out-of-the-box Abrams yourself, or ask the folks who have. 

 

[RagingGrandpa]

9 hours ago, Josiah said:

If you plan to ride daily would you then keep it fully charged?

Simple advice is my favorite-

For cell longevity:

• Before you ride, recharge overnight (e.g. let the voltage stabilize at 100%; don't fuss about unplugging it at some special value).
• Don't recharge after riding, unless you plan to ride again right away. If you're going to ride tomorrow, wait until bedtime to plug it in. 

And then for fire safety: 

• Don't recharge or store the EUC in a position that blocks your exit from the building. 
• Ensure your smoke alarms are operational and would alert you (especially if sleeping) if the EUC emits smoke in the location you put it.

More here.

These are flexible guidelines, not strict rules.
I think everyone will violate them from time to time, which is fine. Follow them as much as is practical, and you'll be doing better than the average user.
 

Edited January 5, 2023 by RagingGrandpa

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

*Advice*

To that I would add 'don't charge at more amps than you need'. Only use speed chargers when you absolutely need the time advantage. Never any point in whacking 10 amps up something you don't need until tomorrow.

Also - whilst not blocking your exit, it should be close to AN exit so you have an opportunity to drag it outside, which is by far the best place for it if it starts doing a thermal runway. I have an additional MC helmet and some thick welding gloves nearby so I can grab it even if it has started going off.

Don't mistake all this fire advice as being an indicator that your machine is likely to catch fire - it probably won't, and if you can manage to not drop it in a lake or try and ride it after a spectacular crash the risk is fairly minimal, though always there with so much lithium in tight proximity, so it's good to have a fire blanket and a plan in mind for if the worst should happen. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Cerbera

[InfiniteWheelie]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

Try out an out-of-the-box Abrams yourself, or ask the folks who have. 

 

I have an Abrams. It accelerates and brakes easily. I don’t know what people are talking about saying bigger wheels lack acceleration or braking. Like @Rawnei said, “All wheels work the same, you lean they go”.

Edited January 5, 2023 by InfiniteWheelie

[Josiah]

13 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I have an Abrams. It accelerates and brakes easily. I don’t know what people are talking about saying bigger wheels lack acceleration or braking. Like @Rawnei said, “All wheels work the same, you lean they go”.

I guess there is an inertia factor.  The heavier the object the more energy it takes to start, turn or stop it.  
 

Should we use a surge protector for these wheels?  This one has a warranty for devices plugged into it up to $200,000.00   Seems like it might be unnecessary since the breaker is protecting the circuit.  Thoughts? 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Josiah

[techyiam]

 

43 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I have an Abrams. It accelerates and brakes easily. I don’t know what people are talking about saying bigger wheels lack acceleration or braking. Like @Rawnei said, “All wheels work the same, you lean they go”.

 

The following is in the context what I was referring to:

On 11/27/2022 at 11:09 AM, techyiam said:

And I am still riding the Abrams without pads.

 

On 11/27/2022 at 4:11 PM, InfiniteWheelie said:

How is this even possible? How do you not just fall off the wheel on your ass when trying to brake? How do you apply more than a tiny amount of torque on the wheel?

I don't understand why someone would even try to ride like that (unless they're simply too broke for pads).

With my T3, and V12, I can brake fine without pads, out-of-the-box.

On the other hand, with my Abrams, I can't brake, and would fall off trying without pads, out-of-the-box. I would have to do something first.

After adding capacitors to the controller and updating to the latest firmware, I can brake well without pads on my Abrams. And if I use pads, I can brake even harder.

Without the capacitor mod, my Abrams wouldn't have been that fun for me, due to sub par performance. To improve performance the hard way, I would have to figure out the most effective way to use pads and lean way over to compensate. This would have made the wheel high effort and not fun.

Since I am not a big heavy person, it matters when I am considering a big heavy wheel. 

[Rawnei]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

Try out an out-of-the-box Abrams yourself, or ask the folks who have. 

I don't think that's relevant, you get on any new wheel you need time to adjust to it, specially if you are used to a certain setup, that has nothing to do with the technical capability of the wheel.

[Rawnei]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

 

 

The following is in the context what I was referring to:

 

With my T3, and V12, I can brake fine without pads, out-of-the-box.

On the other hand, with my Abrams, I can't brake, and would fall off trying without pads, out-of-the-box. I would have to do something first.

After adding capacitors to the controller and updating to the latest firmware, I can brake well without pads on my Abrams. And if I use pads, I can brake even harder.

Without the capacitor mod, my Abrams wouldn't have been that fun for me, due to sub par performance. To improve performance the hard way, I would have to figure out the most effective way to use pads and lean way over to compensate. This would have made the wheel high effort and not fun.

Since I am not a big heavy person, it matters when I am considering a big heavy wheel. 

So what are you saying, without extra capacitors it will fall backwards?

[techyiam]

3 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

So what are you saying, without extra capacitors it will fall backwards?

Nope, I would, as @InfiniteWheelie has alluded in his earlier post.

Edited January 5, 2023 by techyiam

[InfiniteWheelie]

@techyiam I'm curious, why do you ride without pads?

Also, using pads doesn't necessarily mean over-leaning. If you have split pads, placing them further apart means you can lean forward like crazy if you want, or you can place them close together and just press your legs harder into the pads without leaning much. Different riding styles.

Edited January 5, 2023 by InfiniteWheelie

[Rawnei]

10 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Nope, I would, as @InfiniteWheelie has alluded in his earlier post.

Then it doesn't make sense, seems like you don't agree with the pedal modes on the Abrams (to stiff?) and how does extra capacitors change that?

[techyiam]

50 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

@techyiam I'm curious, why do you ride without pads?

Also, using pads doesn't necessarily mean over-leaning. If you have split pads, placing them further apart means you can lean forward like crazy if you want, or you can place them close together and just press your legs harder into the pads without leaning much. Different riding styles.

The point I was making was not that I want to be able to ride without pads. 

Since I am not a big heavy person, to compensate for the 22" tire, I would have to use pads effectively, and lean more than someone who is big and heavy.

As it turns out, by adding four capacitors to the controller, the pedal sensitivity improved significantly, even with the 22" wheel. I can accelerate and brake with stock pads in a very similar way as I do on my V12 with Inmotion branded power pads. I don't noticed that I am putting in that much more input. For acceleration, I think I actually have to put in a bit more effort, but not for braking. But my feet positioning is either centered, or slightly resr biased.

My Abrams can produce more torque and power than my V12, hands down. The problem is being able to access the torque and power.

With the four additional capacitors, now it is easier to access that, especially for braking.

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by techyiam

[Lets Do Science]

Update, those of us who are in this first US domestic batch our boat is expected to port January 19 Long Beach, CA. 

 

 

[Josiah]

Cheers!!!  
thanks LDSci

Pick this wheel in the first place  because aside from all the performance stats covered on Hsiang’s video, I really liked the stock pads. And then after watching Marty’s set up decided to go with the large flow pads from Grizzla in Finland.

I better get some safety gear before it arrives then.  Probably a light set for casual and a heavy set for more aggressive riding.  

Also need to get more practice on my euc simulator.  
 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Josiah
Post Script

[Uras]

Just now, Josiah said:

Also need to get more practice on my euc simulator.

hah, what an awesome and simple idea. 

[UPONIT]

Will this  make people quit whining about the V13's range?

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by UPONIT