Inmotion V13 Speculation

[InfiniteWheelie]

I see some people are doubting that the Samsung 50E is only 4.9 ah. Here's the spec sheet to prove it. The name "50E" is just a name, it means nothing. https://batteryservice.bg/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/INR21700-50E.pdf

As you can see, the minimum capacity is 4.9 ah at 3.6v nominal. That's at 0.2c charge/discharge, which is the industry standard for rating cells. This isn't guessing or being pessimistic, it's the actual rated capacity. 

 

As a side note, 0.2c is a terrible (borderline dishonest) way to rate cells in my opinion, I think it should be 1c. The data sheet does also show that the capacity at 1c (4.753 ah). This equals 3,285 Wh (almost exactly 100 Wh less). I don't expect LeaperKim to use the 1c data (even though it's preferable), but they could at least stop lying about the capacity.

Edited December 17, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[InfiniteWheelie]

After looking up the Samsung 35E cell, it seems that Inmotion is also guilty of this. https://www.orbtronic.com/content/samsung-35e-datasheet-inr18650-35e.pdf

The 35E cell has a capacity of 3.35 ah (not 3.5), which equals 2,894.4 Wh (not 3,024). Inmotion is only lying about the amp hours. Leaperkim is lying about the amps hours and nominal voltage and rounding up. In summary, the real capacities are...

 

Sherman S = 3,387 Wh (≈ 3400 Wh)

V13 = 2,894 Wh (≈ 2900 Wh)

Edited December 17, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[UPONIT]

2 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

Instead of comparing the two based on the max continuous wattage they can pull, why not pick an average wattage that would be sustained in the real world and use that? Wouldn't just normal cruising usage draw roughly the same amount of watts per wheel?

I think you must have missed where we were talking about how to compare "range" when there were so many factors that go into it. I said I just take battery wH (or Ah) and divide by max nominal wattage. It tells nothing about max speed or anything. It's just ONE way to try to use objective data to get RELATIVE comparisons of capacity.

I dunno. That ratio helps my brain...

[onizukagto]

Sorry to derail the current conversation but I see that no one has mentioned the glaring statement flippenly mentioned by kujiroll regarding charging... 

He said the V13 can be fully charged in 3 hours. 

I mean, that sounds amazing, is it just me? Is this actually normal these days? Or is it just the V13? I mean, you can just ride to its max range, pop it under your office desk and know it will be fully charged no matter what. 

Or if you're utterly mental and doing a marathon or something, you just need a long lunch break at a rest stop and you're on your way. 

Range anxiety isn't really an issue if you know you can get a 50% battery from empty in 1.5 hours. Or if you're at 50%, get another 30% in 30mins+. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by onizukagto

[LowFlyingSquirrel]

 

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

My issue is: a "better" motor (more watts, whatever they mean) would give a worse result because you can use it to empty the battery faster (can you?). So until the manufacturers tell us how they come up with the motor wattages, I'm not convinced that battery size/motor power is an overly meaningful number. But who knows, maybe it is? If it works, it works.

 

Perhaps it's better to look at it the other way around, lower is better. For example, Hummer EV, 1000 kW peak (500 kW nominal?). 200 kW battery, 24 minute runtime. Or perhaps it's even more fun to take the peak value, 12 minutes runtime.

Edited December 17, 2022 by LowFlyingSquirrel

[techyiam]

In the Euco unboxing, live stream video, Law said that even the Monster Pro has more low end torque than the V13, and the Master Pro is in another league. But at the end of the video where he went outside the parking lot to ride, I thought he accelerated quite well. 

On another front, the headlight on the V13 looked way brighter than the V11. Even though I think my Abrams is quite bright, it looks like the V13 is even brighter, and the beam pattern is superior. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by techyiam

[rebeuc]

6 minutes ago, techyiam said:

On another front, the headlight on the V13 looked way brighter than the V11. Even though I think my Abrams is quite bright, it looks like the V13 is even brighter, and the beam pattern is superior. 

Yeah, it was a bit of a shame they did not seem to fully turn on the headlight when they went outside in the dark. (You can tell because the taillight was not constantly illuminated like it was when they turned the headlight on to full while inside)

[techyiam]

40 minutes ago, rebeuc said:

Yeah, it was a bit of a shame they did not seem to fully turn on the headlight when they went outside in the dark. (You can tell because the taillight was not constantly illuminated like it was when they turned the headlight on to full while inside)

The headlight did look dim. Perhaps it was in daytime running light mode.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

12 hours ago, UPONIT said:

Maybe you have taken more care with use, maintained better than others?

You must have missed my thread that says "my v11 after 800 or so off road miles". Not so much with the "care and maintenance" There are pictures...

[Paul A]

Sherman S has larger battery capacity, but weighs less than V13? 44kg/97lbs

V13 50kg/110lbs

 

[Steve Evans]

11 hours ago, onizukagto said:

Sorry to derail the current conversation but I see that no one has mentioned the glaring statement flippenly mentioned by kujiroll regarding charging... 

He said the V13 can be fully charged in 3 hours. 

I mean, that sounds amazing, is it just me? Is this actually normal these days? Or is it just the V13? I mean, you can just ride to its max range, pop it under your office desk and know it will be fully charged no matter what. 

Or if you're utterly mental and doing a marathon or something, you just need a long lunch break at a rest stop and you're on your way. 

Range anxiety isn't really an issue if you know you can get a 50% battery from empty in 1.5 hours. Or if you're at 50%, get another 30% in 30mins+. 

that's gonna be one heck of a charger that can do it in 3 hours. it is just not fun having to carry around a charger due to its weight. not to mention trying to find place where you can charge along your ride. 

mid-ride charging is a necessary evil on some rides but it is something i like to avoid.

steve

 

[LowFlyingSquirrel]

43 minutes ago, Steve Evans said:

that's gonna be one heck of a charger that can do it in 3 hours. it is just not fun having to carry around a charger due to its weight. not to mention trying to find place where you can charge along your ride. 

mid-ride charging is a necessary evil on some rides but it is something i like to avoid.

steve

 

My 231w v12 charger weighs around 1.2kg. This 3.7 kw charger only weighs 2.7kg with a heavy car plug. https://evadept.com/p/lefanev-level-1-portable-ev-charger-1-44-kw-120volt-20ft-6m-cable-1-lef51515/#tab-additional_information

[Paul A]

47 minutes ago, Steve Evans said:

trying to find place where you can charge along your ride. 

 

Or just drive a car......

____________________

 

EV Charge Your EUC

Shane Hilde

Aug 23, 2021

 

This video gives a quick overview of how to charge your electric unicycle (EUC) at an EV charging station.

All you need is a charger that can handle 240v and a J1772 adapter.

 

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

6 minutes ago, Paul A said:

All you need is a charger that can handle 240v and a J1772 adapter.

 

Yikes!!! 18 amps? Seems a bit high doesn't it? Wouldn't that heat the batteries to a dangerous level?

[Paul A]

2 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Wouldn't that heat the batteries to a dangerous level?

 

Sorry, don't know.

The statements are a copy and paste of the YouTuber's description.

Might use italics in future to denote copy and pastes.

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

5 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Sorry, don't know.

I don't know either but the fast charger for the v13 is only 7.2amps and the original is 5amp

[UPONIT]

6 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

You must have missed my thread that says "my v11 after 800 or so off road miles". Not so much with the "care and maintenance" There are pictures...

Maybe it's just a crapshoot, then. And you got lucky?

[KiwiMark]

2 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Yikes!!! 18 amps? Seems a bit high doesn't it? Wouldn't that heat the batteries to a dangerous level?

No, the batteries would take that.  It would be a bit on the harsh side, I'm not sure how much it would shorten the life of the battery - probably not too much.

18A x 126V = 2268W

2268W / 3024Wh = 0.75C (the battery would probably take up to 1C without too much of an issue)

0.5C (1512W or 12A) would be better and 0.33C (1,008W or 8A) would be better again.

If I owned this wheel I'd be happy to charge at 8A each time, I don't think a 3h charge rate would be any problem for these batteries.  I would also be happy to charge at 12A occasionally when in a hurry.  I would avoid going as high as 18A, even though I don't think it would be a huge problem to the battery - it's just that 0.75C is a bit on the high side.  My new charger will be capable of charging a battery like this at 20A, but that doesn't mean that I would choose to charge that fast.

[techyiam]

It looks like to me if your use case doesn't dictate which of the two to get: Sherman-S or V13, I think it is going to be difficult to decide one over the other.

Both have strong points that are hard to ignore.

I hope someone will make a side by side comparison video.

[KiwiMark]

2 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I don't know either but the fast charger for the v13 is only 7.2amps and the original is 5amp

7.2A at 126V on a 3024Wh battery is 0.3C.  That is a perfectly reasonable fast charge rate (0.33C = a 3 hour charge rate) without overly stressing the battery.  Charging at 0.3C should allow the battery to last a good long time (many recharge cycles).  This makes me think that Inmotion are very sensible.

Contrast that with the standard charger for the Master Pro - talk about a complete waste of time.  It is a 3A charger, so 3A x 134.4V = 403W which on a 4,800Wh battery is only 1/12C or a 12 hour charge rate.  I'd go with around 12A on a battery of that size or at least 10A, maybe a 6A for a slow charger (~6 hour charging rate).  The standard charger for the V13 with 5A makes it a ~5 hour charge rate, that is OK IMO.

[MrMonoWheel]

One thing I'm not understanding about these chargers, isn't the BMS in the EUC responsible for charging the batteries and supplying the proper current curve? So even if I had a charger that could push 1000 amps the BMS would only utilize (for example) 10amps max to charge, which tapers down as it gets closer to full charge. Or are these things so rudimentary that the charger itself is just pumping raw power into the cells?

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, KiwiMark said:

Contrast that with the standard charger for the Master Pro - talk about a complete waste of time.  It is a 3A charger

BG limited the charge to their packs in response to fires... but using better cells is probably the real reason they've been 'good' lately.

11 minutes ago, MrMonoWheel said:

are these things so rudimentary that the charger itself is just pumping raw power into the cells?

Up until recently they really were that rudimentary (much smaller packs). But now the BMSs are doing more management of the battery, as they should.

1 hour ago, KiwiMark said:

18A x 126V = 2268W

You'll trip the breaker on a US household standard 15A circuit... something to keep in mind!

Edited December 18, 2022 by Tawpie

[MrMonoWheel]

29 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

 

Up until recently they really were that rudimentary (much smaller packs). But now the BMSs are doing more management of the battery, as they should.

How in god's name did anyone ever think that's a good idea? Even if I buy some cheap USB rechargable flashlight on AliExpress it will limit it's charge current despite plugging it into a 65w fast charger. How aren't EUCs the same lmao

[Josiah]

18 hours ago, onizukagto said:

Sorry to derail the current conversation but I see that no one has mentioned the glaring statement flippenly mentioned by kujiroll regarding charging... 

He said the V13 can be fully charged in 3 hours. 

I mean, that sounds amazing, is it just me? Is this actually normal these days? Or is it just the V13? I mean, you can just ride to its max range, pop it under your office desk and know it will be fully charged no matter what. 

Or if you're utterly mental and doing a marathon or something, you just need a long lunch break at a rest stop and you're on your way. 

Range anxiety isn't really an issue if you know you can get a 50% battery from empty in 1.5 hours. Or if you're at 50%, get another 30% in 30mins+. 

Was that with dual chargers 3 hrs and single charger 6 hrs?

Also guys, Checkout this detailed unboxing video.  

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Josiah
Update

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

You'll trip the breaker on a US household standard 15A circuit... something to keep in mind!

us households also have 20 amp and 30 amp and 40 amp circuits etc.  but this was in reference to paul a's post on p78 about charging at an electric vehicle charging station.

2 hours ago, Josiah said:

Also guys, Checkout this detailed unboxing video.  

p77  oldfartrides posted this already but thanks anyway.