Inmotion V13 Speculation

[Punxatawneyjoe]

4 hours ago, UPONIT said:

especially since it crosses from forward tilt to backward tilt.

It doesn't really bother me, i'm not that "tender". I do limited night riding so it's not a big deal, it's a small price to pay to see where you are going. I use some of the assist mode on the v13 so the pedals are tilting back and forth all of the time anyway, it's just a little different.

 

figuring how to paste unicode characters. grrr  - The degree symbol is 0176, you hold down the ALT key and type the code on the key pad then let it up .  °

Edited April 14, 2023 by Punxatawneyjoe

[Punxatawneyjoe]

4 hours ago, UPONIT said:

The Inmotion pumps that came with my V11 and V12ht aren't the 2-stage type, so

I agree two stage isn't really a great term for it but the pump that comes with them although cheap and inaccurate does have a low loss mechanism. You have to unscrew the cap at the end of the nozzle and let the inside tube slide back before disconnecting. It's probably not for pumping up the tire considering it's small volume.

[mrelwood]

9 hours ago, UPONIT said:

The Inmotion pumps that came with my V11 and V12ht aren't the 2-stage type

Are you absolutely sure about that?

https://youtu.be/O--10cTFUGk&t=1m27s

Edited April 14, 2023 by mrelwood

[Stevebee]

My V11 came with the 2 stage pump. It's got a black bit at the end that after pumping you unscrew that first , the the other bit so no loss of air. The dial is too small so I use a different one - damaged eyesight!

[cfrankfly]

On 3/5/2023 at 5:50 AM, HEC said:

Sorry to hear that man ...

What does the Inmotion app say in diagnostic and battery status? Normally I'd guess faulty or loose battery connection, but as V13 have the battery packs connected in "triangle", that should be less likely. Though might be still worth peeking in to see if any of the battery connection is loose or off.

Love the little insect lol

[HEC]

15 hours ago, Stevebee said:

My V11 came with the 2 stage pump. It's got a black bit at the end that after pumping you unscrew that first , the the other bit so no loss of air. The dial is too small so I use a different one - damaged eyesight!

Same type pump comes with V13 (there is no pump with V12-HT as @UPONIT claims, as it has no suspension, to which the pump is supplied as an accessory), and I've only realized that it's 2 stage pump after seeing someone on YouTube disconnecting it the correct way after pumping up the suspension... Guess my eyesight is not what it's been too.

[Stevebee]

50 minutes ago, HEC said:

Same type pump comes with V13 (there is no pump with V12-HT as @UPONIT claims, as it has no suspension, to which the pump is supplied as an accessory), and I've only realized that it's 2 stage pump after seeing someone on YouTube disconnecting it the correct way after pumping up the suspension... Guess my eyesight is not what it's been too.

My eyesight is just as bad … if it wasn’t for Youtube I wouldn’t have spotted it. The dial is too small though, that’s why I bought an alternative 

[UPONIT]

On 4/14/2023 at 9:24 AM, mrelwood said:

Are you absolutely sure about that?

https://youtu.be/O--10cTFUGk&t=1m27s

I'm not "absolutely sure" about much of anything. But, yeah... Second attempt:

"The InMotion pump that came with my V11 isn't a successfully implemented
example of a No-Loss type air pump, despite having two stages. But it was
nice of them to include it, since it is probably adequate for most users."

The title of that video is

"... without losing [much] air,"

not

"... without losing any air,"

The latter meets the definition of "no-loss." The pump @SquallLHeart demonstrates seems like it does allow air to escape the shock, since screwing is not an instantaneous closure method, and the system isn't sealed off when the slow pin actuation occurs.

Is it enough air to matter? Do any of these nits merit picking? I'm absolutely sure I don't know.

39 minutes ago, HEC said:

Same type pump comes with V13 (there is no pump with V12-HT as @UPONIT claims, as it has no suspension, to which the pump is supplied as an accessory), and I've only realized that it's 2 stage pump after seeing someone on YouTube disconnecting it the correct way after pumping up the suspension... Guess my eyesight is not what it's been too.

I'd call it a brain malfunction rather than a "claim."

The point that was buried under my inaccuracies, mis-statements and faulty memories:

I found the "No-Loss" pump that came with my V11 and the Yes-Loss pump
of unknown origin to be inaccurate, imprecise and low resolution. The higher-quality,
more expensive, digital one I had purchased eariler for use on the shocks of an e-bike is
more accurate and precise. In addition, I think its use of a pin-depressing lever, and a
button-operated bleed valve are better and easier ways to achieve losslessness
than the use of multiple threaded couplings.
 

[mrelwood]

 

33 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

The title of that video is

… of no concern, I’m pretty sure that Squall hasn’t done much extensive testing whether it loses “any” air or not. The point of the link was that the 2-step mechanism of that specific pump is often missed/overlooked, hence people don’t use it correctly. Like a few other replies have already shown.

33 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

The pump @SquallLHeart demonstrates seems like it does allow air to escape the shock, since screwing is not an instantaneous closure method, and the system isn't sealed off when the slow pin actuation occurs.

The whole point of a 2-step valve connector is that the system is sealed off when the pin is closed.

33 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

I think its use of a pin-depressing lever, and a
button-operated bleed valve are better and easier ways to achieve losslessness
than the use of multiple threaded couplings.

I completely agree. Unfortunately the only lever mechanism I’ve seen comes with short valve stem threads made of fast wearing brass. I’ve gone through two of them already. So I have humbled myself into using one with two threaded sections but long steel valve stem threads.

[UPONIT]

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

The whole point of a 2-step valve connector is that the system is sealed off when the pin is closed.

Therefore, the question is whether or not a particular pump is successful at sealing off the system...

[novazeus]

i can't believe y'all are still gnawing on that bone. let it go!

but btw, yes, the inmotion pump has a better 2 step valve connector as opposed to the standard screw on like the one that comes with the king song s18. the screw on works good enough, just go over ur desired pressure a little, because if u will take a moment and look at this chart, only two pumps actually put 80 psi in as they were suppose to. so if ur trying to match ur buddy on the other side of the planet, u first have to know what pump they are using. none of these pumps put more air than the 80psi on the gauge. that's why it's just ballpark. get it where it feels right to u and use the same pump, the same number on the indicator, but don't kid urself, or bet anybody ur dead on 140psi, u could be on 130psi.

and btw, when they refer to the inmotion pump being two stage or two something, unlike the kingsong pump, the inmotion pumps air when u pull out the plunger, and when u push in the plunger. why it's so small.

[novazeus]

now to more important stuff, at least for me.

i hadn't ridden much since monday because of very high winds and i've been busy with real estate stuff and helping a friend recently diagnosed with cancer and it's been super hot, so i've been keeping Bob inside in the ac. 

i rode a little the other day after talking to jacob at neltrek and thought i had nailed this whole suspension problem by setting it at 140 psi like his. he's about 190 pounds geared up, i'm about 180 geared up. he's at 150 psi, so i tried 140 psi, did about 3 miles and it was smooth as butter over a section of my road that was pretty jarring. 

i was sooooo happy, and incredulous actually that just getting the shock pressure at 140, and tightening the slider things could make such a difference.

so around 5pm, Bob had decided he had enough ac, so i dashed out, the winds has picked up, and i considered waiting until tmrw, but hopefully it will rain. and the v13 was already outside in it's storage box at 94% battery, ready to go. i had been napping under a blanket because Bob likes it aound 68 degrees. 

so off i go on the v13, and i'm thinking to myself, well maybe this leg thing has some merit, maybe my legs haven't woken up yet. i wasn't having wobbles, i was having wiggles. after a couple of laps, i leaned down and tried to squeeze the tire while on it, it felt hard, so i figured it was just me. hit my highest speed yet today on my small straightaways after a pretty slow few laps getting my legs back in tune, so i thought. 

it wasn't until i brought it inside to charge it, and i grabbed the tire to move it around, and the tire was warm. i knew what that meant, a leak. a testament to the michelin tubeless motorcycle tire, i did 40 miles tonight non-stop without stepping off the wheel. and hooked up my pump and discovered i had zero psi. shit!
i don't do curbs or jumps, no nails on my road, so i tried to pump up the tire, and at first i thought it was worse than a small leak but my pump was leaking. fixed that and pumped it up and took my paint brush with a soapy solution of dawn dishwashing soap and discovered a leak at the base of the valve stem. 

no wonder the suspension felt so cushy. i's been running the tire at 40psi, 5 psi below the sidewall max pressure. i think this leak might have started because the wheel spent 3 days outside in the keter box where the temps might have hit 90, idk. 

i already called jacob and sent him an email and i'll wait for his instructions on what to do. monday will be my 30th day of ownership. i have a big bottle of slime, but idk if that's the way to go with obviously a tube leak. haha, it is funny because for all 40 miles tonight, i was compensating for the wiggles, and one particular bad patch of pavement near the wheel storage garage, was giving the flat tire and me, quite the squirt. 

so i might not have the suspension set rightat all, just a flat tire giving the impression of a smooth ride. not bragging, but my legs are extremely strong, probably stronger than any 20 year old man, because i walk miles and miles a day, because my place is 300 soccer fields big. Bob can't keep up with me. i routinely inlined skated 20 miles every night for years. i think that's why i never had wobbles. 

so this is why u have more than one wheel. i'm not fixing this tire. mounting tires is one thing i've never done. i was gonna attempt it on the s18, but i decided tonight, i'm gonna package it up with these expensive leatt knee braces i bought, like $300 retail, that i absolutely hate, and some leatt elbow guards, and padded snowboarders shorts, and shin guards for some new guy to enjoy because i'm not gonna ride it's wimpy ass anymore but i think it's a perfect beginner wheel and i've finally got the jiluer tire running about as good as it can get. at least it holds air! and it's like jason's s18 with the 906wh molicel pack. 

but i like the challenge and speed of the challenger, and may have jason send me another one, set up identically to this one, except without a bad innertube. running it at 40psi, just up and down my road, shouldn't produce a pinched tube, i wouldn't think. and switching back and forth from the s22, that's a piece of cake to ride, no challenge there, detracts from me improving on the 118 pound v13.

oh well, the s22 will start getting used again. it was probably jealous and jinxed the v13, they were together in the same box. this is my first flat ever on my 11th wheel and 6 years. 

i figure if mounting a tire gives jacob and his crew problems, and they do this for a living, then i'm not gonna attempt it. i can go to my grave not knowing how to mount an euc tire and be perfectly happy. i have waaaay more important shit i'm dealing with presently. 

pretty good riding seeing how the tire was flat.

here's the s18 mileage so far. i'll post it in the for sale section tmrw maybe. 

 

 

 

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, novazeus said:

i wasn't having wobbles, i was having wiggles.

“I didn’t crash, I just had a collision.”

Wobbles, wiggles, wibbles, bobbles, shakes, oscillations… If you ever wrote a booklet on what each of these (obviously different) wordings mean, I’m sure it would be an interesting read. I’m sure everybody would learn something new.

[Robse]

7 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

“I didn’t crash, I just had a collision.”

Wobbles, wiggles, wibbles, bobbles, shakes, oscillations… If you ever wrote a booklet on what each of these (obviously different) wordings mean, I’m sure it would be an interesting read. I’m sure everybody would learn something new.

goodmorning 😁 put last 5 pages from this thread in printed paperback , title " how to notwobbleflate my wheel"  It will be a bestseller 😂

Edited April 16, 2023 by Robse

[novazeus]

yup, all fixed now.and this solves lots of mysteries. 

the reason i've never had wobbles is because not being stupid, i've always ridden these wheels at maximum tire pressure as stated by the tire manufacturers on the sidewall. the "experts" on this forum have always recommended running tires considerably lower than the maximum tire pressure on the sidewall, same as when ur mommy put training wheels on ur first bicycle because she didn't want her precious baby, that hadn't learned how to balance yet, getting hurt. many experts are still riding with low tire pressure, ie training wheels. off road at lower speeds, it isn't an issue, as long as u have gallons of slime for ur innertube pinch flats. 

pavement is another issue, only marty knows, and sorry marty using ur wobble video as an example, there are tons of other wobble, oscillation, wiggles, etc videos on youtube, but my guess is marty, a long distance trail rider also runs low tire pressure because like my jeep in my pastures, that allows a bigger tire contact patch, which is preferred, and softer ride. but on pavement, dangerous and totally screws up the handling of the wheel. 

btw, the v13 DOES NOT, have a torque problem. i seriously doubt wrong way could do his ankle flicks and overpower the wheel with even the big flabby beach bike tire that comes standard. can't say for sure, because jacob at neltrek hasn't sent me my takeoff yet because the 14" michelin pilot street 2 tire is on backorder and i'll never use it anyway. but if wrong way would put 41psi in his big flabby knobby, on decent pavement, i seriously doubt he could make the wheel dip forward. i know i can't with the michelin pilot street 2 at it's max pressure of 45psi, because i tried so hard i almost fell off the footplates, no dip whatsoever. no stutter, just raw power. 

and for further clarification, the wheel now handles beautifully, high speed, slow speed, acceleration, braking, maneuvering, so much more fun.

and to correct all the stupid range tests, running deflated tires and pondering why the range is so low, i'm posting my screen shots from yesterday and today. yesterday unbeknownst to me, the tire pressure was probably 15psi. maybe the innertube was defective, maybe jabob's techs screwed up mounting the tire, but still ultimately neltrek's fault. if i was doing a tire swap for a customer, first off, i would use a brand new innertube that i would inflate and check for leaks in a tire bath. then after mounting the tire, i would check the tire for any loss of air, after a week or so, especially seeing how the customer is all the way across the country and i have no idea how expensive ups to and fro is for a 130 pound oversize package. after reviewing neltrek's no tire warranty last night, i settled on sliming the tire even though i'd prefer a non slimed tire. he'll learn. i'll change my own tires from now on, unless i find a subcontractor nearby i trust. 

just a little historical note from before when some of u were born. these rollover crashes were caused by underinflated tires. ford trying to satisfy all the mamas that were complaining, that should have been driving their station wagons instead, complained about how harsh the ride was. so ford put on the door stickers 26psi to soften the ride, the tires probably still were marked at 36psi. not firestones fault.

so yeah, all these people died because ford trying to sell more vehicles, lied to the consumers. 

why do u think all these vehicles have tpms in them now. because humans are too f'ng stupid to buy a tire gauge and check their tires. 

u have internet, do ur own research.

i don't have time to teach humans that ignore facts.

yesterday with probably 15psi because i had no idea the tire was leaking. started with 94% battery.

today starting with 99% battery and 45psi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

to summarize, @novazeus said he never had "wobbles" before because he runs his tubeless tires with a tube inside of them at MAX psi

People who run lower pressure are idiots and get flats from pinched tubes but his flat was from the people that changed the tire and slime "fixed" it

then something about cars and low tire pressure, maybe another stupid person reference and some video's about car crashes....

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

i don't have time to teach humans that ignore facts.

Hmm. I do it all the time. 

[conecones]

4 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

to summarize, @novazeus said he never had "wobbles" before because he runs his tubeless tires with a tube inside of them at MAX psi

People who run lower pressure are idiots and get flats from pinched tubes but his flat was from the people that changed the tire and slime "fixed" it

then something about cars and low tire pressure, maybe another stupid person reference and some video's about car crashes....

I can no longer tell if he is a top tier troll, or actually for real. I'm really hoping for the former.

[2disbetter]

So probably getting back on familiar ground in this REALLY long thread, but I know that it has been said that in order to get the max speed out of the V13, pedal softness needs to be 100%, and power assist needs to be on for acceleration and braking at 100%. (maybe braking isn't required)

But I do not like how you can feel the wheel dip automatically. That is alarming, and I don't like it at all, so I turned power assist off. Does this really mean I can never get the top speed on the wheel? 

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, 2disbetter said:

in order to get the max speed out of the V13, pedal softness needs to be 100%, and power assist needs to be on for acceleration and braking at 100%. (maybe braking isn't required)

I don’t think the assists are required based on what I’ve tried to memorize. And @SquallLHeart keeps saying that he reaches the max speed with 50% pedal hardness, but not below that. I think he had the assists roughly around 50% as well.

The max speed you can reach should be displayed in the Inmotion app front page. Check whether the assists lower the max speed or not.

[UPONIT]

On 4/16/2023 at 12:41 PM, novazeus said:

the reason i've never had wobbles is because not being stupid, i've always ridden these wheels at maximum tire pressure as stated by the tire manufacturers on the sidewall. the "experts" on this forum have always recommended running tires considerably lower than the maximum tire pressure on the sidewall, same as when ur mommy put training wheels on ur first bicycle because she didn't want her precious baby, that hadn't learned how to balance yet, getting hurt. many experts are still riding with low tire pressure, ie training wheels. off road at lower speeds, it isn't an issue, as long as u have gallons of slime for ur innertube pinch flats.

It's all about definitions...

  "I don't eat junk food. I eat super healthy. So I don't get colds."
   Hang on! You had a cold 2 weeks ago!
   "That wasn't a cold. I had the sniffles."

So... you didn't have wobbles. You had oscillations.

----------------------------

"Mommys and training wheels" because someone enjoys a different point on the manufacturer's recommended RANGE of tire pressures than the maximum??

Lower pressures aren't "training wheels." Low pressure and high pressure each have pros and cons. Neither is objectively "better."

Also, car tires aren't comparable to EUC tires, in the same ways a Boeing 777's tires aren't comparable to a Honda Civic's.

[SquallLHeart]

13 hours ago, 2disbetter said:

So probably getting back on familiar ground in this REALLY long thread, but I know that it has been said that in order to get the max speed out of the V13, pedal softness needs to be 100%, and power assist needs to be on for acceleration and braking at 100%. (maybe braking isn't required)

But I do not like how you can feel the wheel dip automatically. That is alarming, and I don't like it at all, so I turned power assist off. Does this really mean I can never get the top speed on the wheel? 

incorrect. the pedals do not have to be 100% hard to achieve max speed.. but they do need to be above 45%.

yes.. with my current settings, the pedals dip a lot during my hard acceleration. the softness makes it easier to accelerate for me and even playing with harder pedals, I have not been able to push as much power as I usually do.. and requires significantly more effort to accelerate with harder pedals.

if you want the flattest, hardest pedals, you need to TURN ON power assist and put them both at 0%.. and set your pedal hardness to 100%

but I'm telling you now.. I find hard pedals make it harder to get to max speed quickly.. impossible? no..

harder? perhaps... but max speed at max hardness is possible.. if you're having issues with it, you need to commit more, or soften your pedals.. which comes with both pedal settings and power assist.

lean responsibly.

Edited April 18, 2023 by SquallLHeart

[2disbetter]

I guess softness would be ok. I just don't like artificial tipping in general because it is unsettling and throws off balance. 

So let me just ask you what your settings are? 

Softness and power assist settings that is. 

[SquallLHeart]

with the stock pads.. achieving my ridiculous top speed runs without fancier mode

my pedals were at 50%, with power assist acceleration at 80% and braking at 60%. I also have my pedals forward 2° for my own personal comfort and preference.

since changing to the ClarkPads King Kong biopads, I upped my pedal hardness setting to 70% and acceleration up to 100%.. still acclimating to the new setup, but I'm still reaching 50+ GPS speeds easily.. just not as comfortable as I was with the stock pads since I rode with them for well over 1500 miles.. surprisingly.. (they actually are good stock pads.. but I definitely recommend riding with them more around 50-60%)

pedal settings should compliment your pad and pedal setup.. thus why I upped my hardness with the pads I have on them now.

[2disbetter]

20 hours ago, SquallLHeart said:

with the stock pads.. achieving my ridiculous top speed runs without fancier mode

my pedals were at 50%, with power assist acceleration at 80% and braking at 60%. I also have my pedals forward 2° for my own personal comfort and preference.

since changing to the ClarkPads King Kong biopads, I upped my pedal hardness setting to 70% and acceleration up to 100%.. still acclimating to the new setup, but I'm still reaching 50+ GPS speeds easily.. just not as comfortable as I was with the stock pads since I rode with them for well over 1500 miles.. surprisingly.. (they actually are good stock pads.. but I definitely recommend riding with them more around 50-60%)

pedal settings should compliment your pad and pedal setup.. thus why I upped my hardness with the pads I have on them now.

Do you feel your pedals dips backwards when breaking at your settings? Is that not unnerving for you? Currently my settings are 100% hardness (I'll probably come down on that), with 50% acceleration assist, and 0% braking. So far I've found this to be acceptable. After my accident and a broken shoulder, I'm not looking to go fast for a long while, but still I like having the wheel dialed in to cover the gamut of performance that the wheel is capable of.