Learning to ride on a V11

[Hellkitten]

I’m sure starting on a smaller wheel would make it a lot easier, but I didn’t want to go that route. I’m an avid cyclist, skate a bit, ski, ice skate and am fairly physically active. I think that’s helping along with all the good advice from you all. One of my current issues is over leaning and the top heavy wheel wants to keep falling. Then over compensating and pushing the wheel back, then getting into a wobble before either getting centred again or bailing. I’ve watched a few videos where euc riders claim that almost everyone will be riding these in the future. I hate to say it, but that’s never happening. While I am enjoying this learning experience most people I know would not go through the trials and tribulations of learning this skill. I think that’s why most “regular” folks  gravitate towards scooters or bikes. As amazing as these things are, people aren’t familiar with them and they are kinda an abstraction. Some of the things that attracted me to eucs were the seemingly magical quality to them. The portability, extreme turning radius, long range, decent speed, on and off road capabilities. But I don’t think that’s enough to draw a ton of people in. If a kid was born into a family that rode them, I could easily see them picking it up fast. Some of those amazing videos out there prove that! 

I don’t have much to currently offer the forum here, but hopefully someone else will read this when they are learning and see what someone else went through. I read many other threads on people learning and it did help me decide to take the plunge. At some point I’ll have enough insights to help others on their way, as many of you members have with me. Thank you again. 🙏

[.....]

2 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

 One of my current issues is over leaning and the top heavy wheel wants to keep falling. Then over compensating and pushing the wheel back, then getting into a wobble before either getting centred again or bailing.

You can go faster and it helps keep a top heavy wheel from falling. Eventually you'll get there. Slow speed stability just comes with time as well.

I agree, I dont think the masses are ready to dedicate to riding an euc. Throw in icy weather conditions, blistering winds, flooding, etc. Its also a little difficult to arrive and ready to pick up your date or the laundry... I can see euc being a fun supplement, and in some cases, its a primary great vehicle. Not around here tho...

[Hellkitten]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

You can go faster and it helps keep a top heavy wheel from falling. Eventually you'll get there. Slow speed stability just comes with time as well.

I agree, I dont think the masses are ready to dedicate to riding an euc. Throw in icy weather conditions, blistering winds, flooding, etc. Its also a little difficult to arrive and ready to pick up your date or the laundry... I can see euc being a fun supplement, and in some cases, its a primary great vehicle. Not around here tho...

Yeah that makes sense. Again, another one of those details about these wheel thingys.

Winter is on its way here. Just got back from a session, I had to bail because my ears and hands were getting cold.  ⛄️❄️⛄️❄️⛄️❄️

 

 

[Hellkitten]

Day 9- Had a really great practice session in. Went to an empty parking lot and did figure eights for over an hour. Lol. I did at least 50 or so without stopping, putting a foot down or bailing. Easily a record for me. I got a deeper appreciation for some of the subtleties that these wheels take to ride. I ended up having very leisurely loops and feeling like one with the wheel. Not always fighting it. Don’t get me wrong there was some wobbles here and there, but I felt much more comfortable then ever before. Arms were mostly used as subtle counter balance rather then as much flailing. There was many times when it was meditative, which at no point would I have said before. Lol

I did move my foot position further back and wider on my pedals. Allowing for a little bit of wheel float between my legs and better leverage. I think that had a huge impact. I was too far forward and close to the wheel. 

I will definitely be going back out again, after warming up and grabbing a bite........

Edited November 6, 2021 by Hellkitten

[Paul A]

Balance boards.

Master the Karate Kid crane stance on one of these and EUC should be easier.

 

 

 

[Hellkitten]

We had one of those when I was growing up. One of those giant lazy Susan waist slimmer things too. No wonder I gravitate towards wobbly hobbies as an adult. 

[Paul A]

Member Winterwheel in Edmonton rides in insane temps.

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Paul A
typo

[Hellkitten]

Love the score with those awesome winter shots! Great vid. 

I cycle in Toronto winter often as well. The salt has destroyed a drivetrain or two. I guess a wash with regular water after a ride is the way to go. 

[Hellkitten]

Day 9.5- Holy crap, it’s like being a flying robot! 🤖🚀

i did a ton more figure eights and straight runs. I easily hit the beeping and  tiltback multiple times. My wheel is still in beginner mode, so I think that’s 15mph? I powered into many corners and hit the gas to get out of potholes. Did a lot of counterbalancing while turning. I was much better at actually being able to go where I wanted. Things are really falling into place. 

[Hellkitten]

Any tips on speed wobbles? I’ve read what I could find here and watched some videos on it. Any really good threads?

The way I’ve been dealing with them is, either standing with one leg more forward and one back. Kinda bracing the front and back of the euc. And or sitting back and slowing down. I’m riding a little loose currently which is good so far, even with some infrequent wobbles.

I had speed lock on my euc which I bummed up. I’m not actually going more then 15-20 mph in bursts. I was tired of hearing the beeps and getting tiltback. As I’m sure the neighbors did. 

Day 10- More of the same. Lots of loops figure eights, straight stretches. Which is where I ended up with my wobbles. 

 

[Tawpie]

Speed wobbles will go away with time... keep adjusting stance etc., but most folks find they gradually disappear. Autonomic systems getting trained, muscles getting stronger etc. etc.

[kiitick]

Pads made a HUGE difference in my wobbles. I also found that I like having one high and one low.  The low one slightly farther forward from the rear one.  When I brake, I use the top of my right foot and the back of my left leg (the right is lower and farther forward.)  That seems to have really helped get rid of the braking wobbles.

[.....]

46 minutes ago, kiitick said:

Pads made a HUGE difference in my wobbles. I also found that I like having one high and one low.  The low one slightly farther forward from the rear one.  When I brake, I use the top of my right foot and the back of my left leg (the right is lower and farther forward.)  That seems to have really helped get rid of the braking wobbles.

 When I encounter wobbles, I like to loosen up on the wheel and stay off the pads. Im with @Tawpie on this one, wobbles stop occurring with time, as our brains micromanage the balance in a way we can't really think thru. I found that changing lean or light carving while staying loose, helps me get them go away if they start. Padded or padless, I sometimes encounter wobbles on both my larger wheels. It typically happens when I'm riding in a style I havent conditioned for. It truly can make you crap your pants when it happens all a sudden, thats for sure

I use pads symmetrically, so I can lessen my bias to a certain stance posture. Regardless, I still think that learning to control a wheel without pads, is best for overall progression. No doubt, pads make most things easier and I do enjoy them. However, introducing them too early, creates a reliance on leverage rather than weight shift. Horse for courses tho, as all my BS opinions are that of a novice rider.

[Paul A]

Regardless of wobbles, most important is to be wearing protective gear.

All sorts of unexpected things beyond control can happen.

An out of control tumbling wheel is the next major concern.

Hits the expensive Ferrari, causes a chain reaction multi car pile up, hits and seriously injures/kills a pedestrian....

Really need legalization and insurance to eventuate.

 

 

[rcgldr]

8 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

Any tips on speed wobbles?

Depends on what causes the wobbles. Duf is a bow legged rider that has trouble griping the pads with his inner legs, so he lowers the tire pressure on his EUCs to avoid wobbles, which he mentions in this video of his first ride on a V12, where he gets a minor wobble, then lowers pressure and the wobble goes away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q0MSbSr03E&t=65s

The bike trail I ride on is made of cement slabs with seams that result in small drops or bumps in some spots, which can trigger a moderate wobble when turning. In the case of turning on a bumpy section triggering wobble, carving doesn't help. I found that bending my legs more at the knees on the problem sections of that trail prevents the wobbles.

Wobbles tilt an EUC side to side as well as twisting it, and having the feet placed offset from each other could help with the twisting aspect, but with the tilting part of the wobble, offset feet will tilt the EUC forwards | backwards, which isn't going to help. 

As posted, experience helps with wobbles, but I've seen videos of girls with fairly thin legs riding EUCs without getting wobbles, so I'm not sure that muscle development is involved in avoiding wobbles.

Wrong Way mentions some wobble issues on the V12 when braking or riding at high speed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO7w7jxpr3g&t=475s

 

[BongoFlip]

On 11/6/2021 at 4:54 PM, Hellkitten said:

Any tips on speed wobbles? I’ve read what I could find here and watched some videos on it. Any really good threads?

 

I'd like to know this too. I had my first major wipeout because of the wobbles. I was only at 40 Km/h, but luckily wearing all of my gear; my elbow was the only thing scraped up, but scrapped up the side of my V12

[Hellkitten]

39 minutes ago, BongoFlip said:

I'd like to know this too. I had my first major wipeout because of the wobbles. I was only at 40 Km/h, but luckily wearing all of my gear; my elbow was the only thing scraped up, but scrapped up the side of my V12

Really sorry to hear that. Please tell me that at least it was in your office. 🙏🤘🏽🙏🤘🏽🙏🤘🏽🙏

[.....]

 

The list goes on and on. Its a VERY common thing to encounter as a learner and beyond. Google does pretty good with referencing euc.org

[Paul A]

Wobbles might be due to resonance.

"This is known as resonance – when one object vibrating at the same natural frequency of a second object forces that second object into vibrational motion. Resonance only occurs when the first object is vibrating at the natural frequency of the second object."

 

 

[Paul A]

Another possibility is aerodynamics.

Moving through medium of air, creating disturbances, airflow, vortices, effects on stability, differences in air pressures, drag, etc.

As well as creating foul air/jetwash for those in its trail, (Maverick and Goose), turbulence affects the plane/EUC itself.

Differing wing shapes/designs/positioning have differing attributes of stability, lift, maneuverability, control, balance, speed etc.

Wind tunnel tests with smoke released in streams to make the air flow visible around EUC and rider...... probably not going to happen.

[The Brahan Seer]

On 11/6/2021 at 3:58 AM, Hellkitten said:

I will definitely be going back out again, after warming up and grabbing a bite........

If you haven't done so already, learn to launch using one leg. Practicing with each. This will help you build up your leg muscles quicker which in turn will help with control, speed and to some degree wobbles.  If you can already do this try to learn to ride one legged now. Again this is a great way to build up the leg muscles quicker and will take your riding up a level. I wish I had done this earlier in my learning curve which is why I am suggesting it. This is a fantastic hobby. There are so many levels you can get to and it never gets boring. 

[yoos]

On 11/7/2021 at 2:54 AM, Hellkitten said:

Any tips on speed wobbles?

As others point out throughout the forum, wobbles will go away with experience and muscle growth. The safe way is to simply avoid speeds at which they start to appear (the standard recipe for wobbles is hard breaking at high speed) in your case. The higher your speed, the more likely you will be forced into an emergency breaking situation where wobbles might be your downfall. So the safe and slow way is to simply set your max speed (beeps & tiltback) at speeds where wobbles are mild and you can manage them and still break quickly. Then slowly increase that max speed (e.g. by 1mph every 100-500 miles, depending on progress). When I first learned to ride I would experience wobbles at 10mph already. Now, 1200 miles later, I never have any wobble trouble all the way up to the wheel top speed of 18mph (yes, my wheel is slow) even if I break hard (close to overpowering it).

You seem to make good progress and at this point I would suggest trying some light and slow offroad (if you haven't already) - not downhill, and not in some rocky mountains, but rather in a field or forest). Whenever I had the opportunity to go off-road it boosted my skill immensely. It really improves microcontrol and muscles and it regularly puts you into low-speed near-fall situations which help you learn very quickly [typically I would call my ride enjoyable if I have 5 run-offs, one proper fall where something else than feet would touch ground and a myriad of close calls]. It is also immense fun to tackle off-road challenges on an EUC: sand, gnarly tree roots (treacherous when wet), hills and crevices, grass where you don't see terrain microdetails and rely on feedback from your feet etc. While all this requires effort and equals a good workout, it is still relaxing because you don't have to account for pedestrians or cars. It is also refreshing to face natural challenges and obstacles rather than artificial exercises on asphalt. It's like a cross-country run vs a treadmill or climbing a rock vs a set of pull-ups. And one great benefit of off-road is that it prepares your muscle memory for city rides where near-crash situations are much rarer but also potentially much more devastating. The only minor problem in your case is, paradoxically, that the V11 is capable of going rather fast on mild off-road, which increases the chances of more damaging crashes - to you and the EUC. It's also not considered a particularly sturdy wheel. Nevertheless I consider getting it as my next EUC and would go off-road on it.

In general it seems wise to learn high-speed riding last, as it is the most dangerous part of EUC life. While for speed demons it might also be the most rewarding aspect, I get more fun from technical challenges - slaloms, precision jumps, regaining balance after losing grip on sand or wet clay. Anyway, it is easy for me to say since my wheel doesn't go faster than 20mph anyway

Edited November 8, 2021 by yoos

[BongoFlip]

10 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Its a VERY common thing to encounter as a learner and beyond. Google does pretty good with referencing euc.org

I found the wobble went away when I lowered the PSI. I had pumped it up to 35 right before my accident. Lowering it down to 25 has made it stable at higher speeds now. I did my first ride from home to the office this morning and zero wobble thankfully.

[.....]

9 minutes ago, BongoFlip said:

I found the wobble went away when I lowered the PSI. I had pumped it up to 35 right before my accident. Lowering it down to 25 has made it stable at higher speeds now. I did my first ride from home to the office this morning and zero wobble thankfully.

Lower pressure tends to reduce how twitchy and responsive wheels are. I run all mine dangerously low. I lose a little bit of ease in accel and turn, but gain a more planted feeling during high speed bumps. In time, youll be able to ride your wheel at various pressures and not fear wobbles. Amazingly, I can tell when my wheels are a mere 2psi low. Bounce testing is more accurate than my cheap tire gauge. Fwiw, I run 20psi on my Sherman and 30 on the 18xl. Any more than that and I bounce a bit much. I still tend ot encounter wobbles at speeds above 40mph. I chalk it up to the lack of time I've spent at those speeds.

Edited November 8, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[kiitick]

Muscles for sure make a huge difference. I thought adding the pads was helpful, but I rode with no pads, and didn't have any wobble.  Yesterday, I went on 2 20 mile rides. I noticed that near the end of the second ride I was wobbling again even with pads.  I could tell that I was TIRED, I feel like more practice will get you there.  

 

To build up my muscles, I agree with @yoos .  My "Off roading" began with riding my wheel in the grass at the park. Lower speeds, building control, and for me, when I went down, no road rash or damage to my euc, the grass was pretty forgiving.