EUC World - What does the Safety margin alarm do?

[Giffy]

I've been trying to understand the safety margin alarm setting. Is it like Gotway's built in alarm that beeps when you have 20% power left available? I have the safety margin alarm set to 30% and still haven't felt the alarm vibrate my phone. For further testing, I'll be plugging in my headphones to make sure I hear it too. 

[Ádám Szitás]

I would like to know this as well, I regularly get over 100% without effort so it's not like the real power left.

[.....]

The overhead alarm is what prompted me to 'upgrade' from an 18L to an 18XL. I had near full battery and did some typicaly Donkey leans and eucw warned me. It HAD to be that 20% margin alarm. I scoured over my csv logs and couldnt find when or what the alarm was.  I also would like to know how this is calculated. I am assuming its a combo of voltage sag and amperage draw? @Seba is pretty sharp when it comes to explaining this stuff. Hopefully he can shed some light on it. Fwiw, I've yet to overlean my KS18L even once, but Im also pushing harder and harder with each 100 miles logged. I'm guessing its battery sag we are more worried about. From what I gather, these motors can take some insane current short term, and there'd be no way to guess about if the board/parts themselves were nearing max. I could be wrong tho, but I'm only wrong a little more than half the time.

Edited May 20, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Chriull]

Euc World safety margin is for KS wheels 100% - "inverter load". Inverter load is most presumably the duty cycle of the inverter (motor controller).

Afaik this safety margin number is only available for KS wheels, as they are the only wheels reporting such a number.

This "inverter load"  is also the trigger for the internal KS "88% alarm" (?5 consecutive beeps?) - meaning 100%-88%=22% "safety margin" left

Here (and following posts) some more details about this number:

Afair Inmotion seems to produce some similar number - at least this can be seen in their graphs produced by their "diagnosis data". But i have no idea if this number is also reported via bluetooth to an app or only saved in the internal memory?

57 minutes ago, Ádám Szitás said:

I would like to know this as well, I regularly get over 100% without effort so it's not like the real power left.

This should not be happening on a regular basis?!

Maybe some logs could lead to some adoption/correction of the numbers?

Or it is just some "normal inaccuracy" and you're just driving at the limit?

[Seba]

5 hours ago, Chriull said:

Afaik this safety margin number is only available for KS wheels, as they are the only wheels reporting such a number.

Seems that V11 with newest firmware also reports similar value. I've added it to upcoming 2.6 release of EUC World.

[Giffy]

10 hours ago, Chriull said:

Euc World safety margin is for KS wheels 100% - "inverter load". Inverter load is most presumably the duty cycle of the inverter (motor controller).

So you're saying this is a feature for Kingsong, and from what @Seba said, maybe the V11? I had no idea but that makes sense why it does nothing on my GW lol

[Seba]

On 5/20/2021 at 9:55 PM, Giffy said:

So you're saying this is a feature for Kingsong, and from what @Seba said, maybe the V11? I had no idea but that makes sense why it does nothing on my GW lol

Latest EUC World version (2.6.4) also supports safety margin readout and alarm for most Gotway/Begode wheels and for Sherman. By default safety margin alarm is set to 20 % which roughly corresponds to 80 % load alarm of a wheel.

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[EMA]

On 7/4/2021 at 3:10 AM, /Dev/Null said:

I just noticed this in my latest euc.world tour.  It says "Safety Margin Min: 42%'.  Does this mean I never really pushed the wheel?

in a certain way yes.

all wheels will report a different value, when pushing my EX i've reached 12-13% while on EXN around 30%, so you need to tune to your wheel in order to have an accurate measure

with alarms enabled safety margin will beep (BT speakers) when threshold reached

Edited July 5, 2021 by EMA

[PLEASE_DELETE]

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Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[Seba]

26 minutes ago, /Dev/Null said:

I'm not sure what I'm tuning.  I don't use the alarms at all as there is no way I can hear them.

Consider one of the following:

• bone-conduction headphones (Aftershokz for example) if you're using open face helmet
• communication set (Sena for example) built into the full face helmet
• external BT speaker attached to the EUC, bacpack etc.

There are also other options to get EUC World alarms to be heard.

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[EMA]

Just now, /Dev/Null said:

Thanks Seba.  I've looked into all those, but just prefer to keep my Nik+ under 40km/h and over 50% battery.  I have very very bad hearing and pretty much consider my hearing unusable without my hearing aides.  Both my mother & grandmother's hearing has deteriorated to being almost completely deaf and I expect my hearing to go that way as well, unfortunately.

think about use the wheel speakers, at really high volume you can also feel the vibe on your legs/pedals

[PLEASE_DELETE]

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Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[Chriull]

12 minutes ago, /Dev/Null said:

Does that stat on euc.world means I'm playing it "safe enough" or does it not mean anything until I "tune" it?  Just wondering if it's something I can learn from.

42% safety margin mean that 58% of possible torque (current) was delivered.

So you have about the same as your maximum used torque still available as reserve. For potholes, wind gusts, inclines, overtaking, or just ?"tuning in"?

But still be carefull as absolute torque decreases with speed - so if you have about half of the maximum available torque as reserve, the absolute reserve will decrease linear with increasing speed!

20 minutes ago, /Dev/Null said:

I have very very bad hearing

As my belly is very sensitive i always felt phone vibrations while it's in my bumbag.

Smartwatch vibration should be nicely felt too if the wrist guard does not dampen it...

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[wehey]

15 hours ago, Tawpie said:

The "safe" current draw depends on the cells used in the battery, and I don't know what's under the blue shrink-wrap.

But.

KS has a reputation of protecting the wheel at all costs... it's rare to hear of burned MOSFETs or batteries or nickel strips in the 16X, I think in large part to KS being very/overly conservative in their firmware and simply not allowing the rider to use more current than the nannies at KS deem wise. Blown fuses are known to happen to those that ride stairs, don't do that with this wheel. And don't ride the beeps either, because the nannies would rather you get up close and personal with pavement than let the magic smoke out of the electronics. (which seems harsh, but it makes sense… if the magic smoke does come out, you still eat sh*t and you have expensive parts to replace)

Long story, but I wouldn't worry much about it. But experiment. If you set a current alarm at 30A, see what you're doing when you hit it. You could use it as a reminder to modulate your riding style, or don't bother with it at all and just watch safety margin.

FWIW and not that it means anything at all, but there are 2 green fuses in each battery pack to go along with the pair on the motherboard.

What exactly is the safety margin feature? I don’t understand it

[RagingGrandpa]

23 minutes ago, wehey said:

What exactly is the safety margin feature? I don’t understand it

Merged; answers above  

[rcgldr]

It doesn't seem to do anything for my V8F.

[Cerbera]

On 7/5/2021 at 2:07 PM, /Dev/Null said:

so doubt that would work but the inside of my forearm has the phone strapped to it.

I tried that today with vibrate alarms (Samsung Galaxy A13 on rubber base running armband), and I could certainly feel them, despite many many layers of clothes and armour. I use vibrates alone for all the low priority alarms, and vibration and maximum vol beeps from phone AND machine for the critical ones (L3/4).