z10 - is it still a solid used wheel?

[redsnapper]

I am looking at buying a used z10 - given they are getting old and replacement parts are not ez to find, is this a solid choice for a used wheel? I am replacing a 16x which I think has similar sort of specs...

Thoughts???

[litewave]

2 hours ago, redsnapper said:

I am looking at buying a used z10 - given they are getting old and replacement parts are not ez to find, is this a solid choice for a used wheel? I am replacing a 16x which I think has similar sort of specs...

Thoughts???

 

In my opinion, the Ninebot Z model is still the best-looking wheel around. The huge 4-inch tire, light effects, and silhouette are just sexy in a macho batman sort of way. I purchased a barely-used Z10 six months ago for a great price and have put nearly 1000km on the wheel and ride almost everyday. I have no regrets, but I needed some time to learn to ride the wheel, and it was scary at first. Once acclimated, I now have difficulty riding other/my previous wheels. I do enjoy riding the Z10 a lot more, but it isn't much faster than other 16- or 18-inch wheels from 2018 or later. My wheel is from the first eWheels batch imported in August 2018. So far, I have not discovered any issues with the the mainboard which was reported to have a high failure rate in the first year. It has also been reported that Ninebot has severed all ties with US resellers, so Z owners in the US are on our own. Parts do appear to be broadly available on Aliexpress and from Chinese sellers on eBay, but be prepared to wait 2-3 months for them to arrive.

Having suffered a cut-out at 44km/h a few days ago (fortunately a butt- not faceplant), I will need to replace the trolley handle, mudguard and inner shells. The wheel still rides and is structurally sound, but the handle won't fully retract and is torqued. Since the trolley is exposed and somewhat flimsy, you will probably need to replace yours sooner or later as well.

Also, the brass nut inserts in the fender and shell can be stripped out too easily and are more or less impossible to reinsert. Due to the impact of my crash, the plastic recesses in the shell which hold the brass inserts also broke. I am using washers to catch the remaining plastic around the screw holes to tighten the screws back into the trolley handle for now, but I will need to replace the shell and mudguard sooner or later.

Besides the weak headlight that is aimed too high on early Z's, the on/off switch is very susceptible to water ingress which prevents the wheel from shutting off. You should ask about that and plan to immediately and carefully seal the edge around the switch with a very thin bead of silicone sealant. I was able to dry out my switch by taping a large dessicant packet on top of it and wrapping stretch wrap around it for a week.

Also, a few other forum members have had to replace the bearing around 5,000km, which I am not looking forward to.

The other maintenance gotcha with the Z is the battery. I have read that they are nearly impossible to rebuild/replace due to the custom BMS, and they sell for $900 from sellers on Ali. Mine seems to be ok and will hopefully last for many years to come. If it fails for any reason, I'll probably sell the wheel.

edit: The range of the wheel is about 35miles. The smallish battery (9600mAH) still requires a full 9 hours to charge due to the weak charger and battery BMS. I attempted a long ride two months ago, stopping to top-off the battery for a couple hours. The battery only recharged an additional 10%, and it took several hours and two more stops for me to make it home three hours later than planned. The battery charge curve is not linear, and requires 5-6 hours to get any significant additional range.

Would I recommend this wheel? Absolutely, but only if you can find one nearly new for under $1000USD only. If more than that, I'd strongly recommend you buy one of the later wheels from Jason where you can get extended support.

Edited April 17, 2021 by litewave
added battery/charging comments

[Boris Lämpel]

Well, I do not think that this will be an update to you. Much less torque and range than the 16X. But that depends on your riding style. I brakes worse too. But I still like it. The quality is wayyy better.

I ride mine just because I have no money for an MSP/RS...😉

[xSAMCOx]

Just got one  ...

[xSAMCOx]

And it takes a charge pew... was my lill worry of reading all the doa in boxes.

What a stunning looking wheel i had to Get one...  Even if newer faster better n so is out this is a legend ...

[Fahrtwind]

Congrats! It really IS the best looking wheel around. The big wheels of the competitors look like a piece of furniture. But all the stories about the bad reliability kept me from buying one. I hope you enjoy it and will have positive experiences! Keep us informed

[xSAMCOx]

1 hour ago, Fahrtwind said:

Congrats! It really IS the best looking wheel around. The big wheels of the competitors look like a piece of furniture. But all the stories about the bad reliability kept me from buying one. I hope you enjoy it and will have positive experiences! Keep us informed

Yeh i hope i will  like it  we will se . Its still on charge and i do se that it will take a good while to top it up. 
But  if its not to late when its done ill go n try it out. 

[Rehab1]

On 4/17/2021 at 9:45 AM, redsnapper said:

I am looking at buying a used z10 - given they are getting old and replacement parts are not ez to find, is this a solid choice for a used wheel? I am replacing a 16x which I think has similar sort of specs...

Thoughts???

Did you ever purchase a Z10? I really miss mine. Going through my video archives I realized why. 

 

[redsnapper]

Nah - missed out. How would you compare z10 to your 16X (which is what I am replacing)?

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, redsnapper said:

Nah - missed out. How would you compare z10 to your 16X (which is what I am replacing)?

Both are well grounded wheels for off roading  which I used them both for. The Z10 was just a beast in it’s unique handling characteristics.

When turning the Z10 above 25/kph you need to throw away all of your instinctive turning maneuvers you learned on wheels with skinner tires. Much like a motorcycle you turn the wheel left to go right. That’s what made it fun.

I loved the mud covered Jeep aesthetics of the Z but the constant battery drainage while in storage was a PITA.

For what it’s worth I would never own a Z without having alternate wheels but if your  looking for an exhilarating wheel to add to your stable and you can find one that’s well taken care at a decent price go for it. 

 

[Weird Lobo]

Greetings, First time posting..  anywhere.   Yeah I'm old..    My point here is that I bought the Z10 when it first came out.  Now have over 3300 MILES and have not had any issues.  That being said, I did have to replace the trolley after my nephew crashed due to speed wobbles (new child rider, I should have put on the limiter)  

I am now looking at the new wheels and thinking about getting an upgrade.  S20 perhaps?  Abrams maybe? 

I rode my Z10 in the rain/snow and only had problems when the snow was too deep, or on sheets of ice (duh)

What wheel can replace my sexy beast?

What would be a fair asking price for my used Z?

[redsnapper]

On 6/1/2021 at 8:11 AM, Rehab1 said:

Both are well grounded wheels for off roading  which I used them both for. The Z10 was just a beast in it’s unique handling characteristics.

When turning the Z10 above 25/kph you need to throw away all of your instinctive turning maneuvers you learned on wheels with skinner tires. Much like a motorcycle you turn the wheel left to go right. That’s what made it fun.

I loved the mud covered Jeep aesthetics of the Z but the constant battery drainage while in storage was a PITA.

For what it’s worth I would never own a Z without having alternate wheels but if your  looking for an exhilarating wheel to add to your stable and you can find one that’s well taken care at a decent price go for it. 

 

Finally got a used z10 with only 750km - very unusual ride charateristics (so much angular momentum from that 4inche tire requires counter-steer at even lowish speeds)! 16x certainly feels much more agile at speed and over varried terrain but the z10 - even 5 years since release- is such a stunning design! Heavy beast to lift in and out of my charging safety box - giving me a tennis elbow! Also z10 such low voltage - 58v - not as much acceleration/torque as modern wheels. Funny thing - guy who sold it said had a very hard time riding it. When I rcvd the wheel, there was 2psi of pressure in the tire! 3rd wheel I buy where the tire was almost flat (making it pretty much unrideable)...

[litewave]

3 hours ago, redsnapper said:

Finally got a used z10 with only 750km - very unusual ride charateristics (so much angular momentum from that 4inche tire requires counter-steer at even lowish speeds)! 16x certainly feels much more agile at speed and over varried terrain but the z10 - even 5 years since release- is such a stunning design! Heavy beast to lift in and out of my charging safety box - giving me a tennis elbow! Also z10 such low voltage - 58v - not as much acceleration/torque as modern wheels. Funny thing - guy who sold it said had a very hard time riding it. When I rcvd the wheel, there was 2psi of pressure in the tire! 3rd wheel I buy where the tire was almost flat (making it pretty much unrideable)...

Please keep posting! There are several (many?) Z10 riders who love the wheel and refuse to part with it - like me, @fbhb, and others. It is arguably the sexiest wheel ever made (Ninebot wheels were all aesthetically pleasing).

Unfortunately, it takes a lot of effort to control in regular urban terrain and has a very harsh ride due to the tubeless, low-profile tire. On flat, smooth ashfelt urban roads and trails it's a predictable wheel and a joy to ride.

I'm slowly rebuilding mine and still trying to fit a taller Pirellii tire to hopefully improve the ride and handling characteristics. At least one rider @palachzzz? has installed a custom 84v battery pack, though we have not heard from him since. Hulaj.market also sells nylonove pedals for it. So there are still upgrades possible for us die-hards!

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by litewave

[redsnapper]

37 minutes ago, litewave said:

Please keep posting! There are several (many?) Z10 riders who love the wheel and refuse to part with it - like me, @fbhb, and others. It is arguably the sexiest wheel ever made (Ninebot wheels were all aesthetically pleasing).

Unfortunately, it takes a lot of effort to control in regular urban terrain and has a very harsh ride due to the tubeless, low-profile tire. On flat, smooth ashfelt urban roads and trails it's a predictable wheel and a joy to ride.

I'm slowly rebuilding mine and still trying to fit a taller Pirellii tire to hopefully improve the ride and handling characteristics. At least one rider @palachzzz? has installed a custom 84v battery pack, though we have not heard from him since. Hulaj.market also sells nylonove pedals for it. So there are still upgrades possible for us die-hards!

 

 

 

 

Much obliged for the refs to the z10ers! What are your thoughts on PSI  (I am approx 70kg so currently hv at 25psi) - I am thinking that high PSI will exaggerate the gyro effect (although low psi and larger contact patch also has some cons)? Trail riding - so much train tracking I have to be quite careful. On smooth straight away - so solid! I covered/sealed the power button as I know that is a potential issue for water ingress... Mudguard on this machine was short and much mud water getting thrown up onto my back etc. Will have to rig something up to extend that down to the trolley base.  But each ride on this machine from the future feels more and more comfortable. I had been riding a crap v5f since I my16x fried and had lost alot of the joy of riding. As Frank Costanza once said:

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by redsnapper

[litewave]

16 minutes ago, redsnapper said:

Much obliged for the refs to the z10ers! What are your thoughts on PSI  - I am thinking that high PSI will exaggerate the gyro effect (although low psi and larger contact patch also has some cons)? Trail riding - so much train tracking I have to be quite careful. On smooth straight away - so solid! I covered/sealed the power button as I know that is a potential issue for water ingress... Mudguard on this machine was short and much mud water getting thrown up onto my back etc. Will have to rig something up to extend that down to the trolley base.  But each ride on this machine from the future feels more and more comfortable. I had been riding a crap v5f since I my16x fried and had lost alot of the joy of riding. As Frank Costanza once said:

I think the consensus on Z10 tire pressure is 20-25psi max. I personally found higher psi to be treacherous to adapt to.

Never heard anyone complain about the stock fender not working well. It's really much larger than the traditional mudguards found on other wheels. Maybe add some silicon sealant on the side, or extend it a bit with a 3D printed part or some thick, flexible EPDM.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804676856044.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.18771c88DWqavZ&algo_pvid=1b7484db-1b09-4a0f-bb0b-9c4f0fe0b477&algo_exp_id=1b7484db-1b09-4a0f-bb0b-9c4f0fe0b477-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000030794681003"}&pdp_npi=3%40dis!USD!31.61!21.81!!!!!%40212279a216803603945818444d0704!12000030794681003!sea!US!1620804261&curPageLogUid=PrGlDSSWLj1Q

See also Chooch's video discussing Z10 tire pressure and other tips and mods:

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by litewave

[redsnapper]

1 hour ago, litewave said:

I think the consensus on Z10 tire pressure is 20-25psi max. I personally found higher psi to be treacherous to adapt to.

Never heard anyone complain about the stock fender not working well. It's really much larger than the traditional mudguards found on other wheels. Maybe add some silicon sealant on the side, or extend it a bit with a 3D printed part or some thick, flexible EPDM.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804676856044.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.18771c88DWqavZ&algo_pvid=1b7484db-1b09-4a0f-bb0b-9c4f0fe0b477&algo_exp_id=1b7484db-1b09-4a0f-bb0b-9c4f0fe0b477-0&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000030794681003"}&pdp_npi=3%40dis!USD!31.61!21.81!!!!!%40212279a216803603945818444d0704!12000030794681003!sea!US!1620804261&curPageLogUid=PrGlDSSWLj1Q

See also Chooch's video discussing Z10 tire pressure and other tips and mods:

 

 

thx - previous owner chopped the oem fender by 3/4 so it is pretty much just a useless little tail now! I will print an epdm version to restore function... 

[redsnapper]

mudguard in petg - vast improvement!

[litewave]

1 hour ago, redsnapper said:

mudguard in petg - vast improvement!

link to file please? How much was the total material cost (estimated)? New ones are selling for $21.81USD + $4.59 shipping to the US (See link in my post above).

The bobtail (previous owner) wasn't very smart or appealing. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by litewave

[redsnapper]

10 hours ago, litewave said:

link to file please? How much was the total material cost (estimated)? New ones are selling for $21.81USD + $4.59 shipping to the US (See link in my post above).

The bobtail (previous owner) wasn't very smart or appealing. 

Stl was a prefab I found online (2$) - https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/various/ninebot-z6-z8-z10-mudguard-maxi

material cost - about 10$ (30% of roll) - print required lots of supports... I did take her out for a good rip after installing the new mudguard. Was nice not to get covered in dirt! Also starting to experiment more with maneuvring at speed. Initially I felt high speed cornering required counter steer (body lean into turn while putting pressure on opposite side pedal). Traditional turning (lean and pedal pressure same side) seemed to produce wheel wobble. But as I get more comfortable on the machine, I am trying different bracing techniques to stabilize. I took the machine to the grocery store and bit of a beast to put in a shopping cart! I dunno how people with these newer 100lbs + machines manage! BUt I am loving this z10...

Edited April 3, 2023 by redsnapper

[litewave]

15 hours ago, redsnapper said:

Stl was a prefab I found online (2$) - https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/various/ninebot-z6-z8-z10-mudguard-maxi

material cost - about 10$ (30% of roll) - print required lots of supports... I did take her out for a good rip after installing the new mudguard. Was nice not to get covered in dirt! Also starting to experiment more with maneuvring at speed. Initially I felt high speed cornering required counter steer (body lean into turn while putting pressure on opposite side pedal). Traditional turning (lean and pedal pressure same side) seemed to produce wheel wobble. But as I get more comfortable on the machine, I am trying different bracing techniques to stabilize. I took the machine to the grocery store and bit of a beast to put in a shopping cart! I dunno how people with these newer 100lbs + machines manage! BUt I am loving this z10...

 

What printer do you have? I'm looking at Bambu but wish it had a larger build size. Reviews and specs are awesome, though. I also considered the Anycubic Kobra Max (it was on sale recently for $500-550USD) but saw a lot of negative reviews about it and canceled the order.

What tire pressure did you settle on and what is your riding weight?

[redsnapper]

On 4/3/2023 at 10:47 PM, litewave said:

What printer do you have? I'm looking at Bambu but wish it had a larger build size. Reviews and specs are awesome, though. I also considered the Anycubic Kobra Max (it was on sale recently for $500-550USD) but saw a lot of negative reviews about it and canceled the order.

What tire pressure did you settle on and what is your riding weight?

I use an Ultimaker 2+ but my buddy printed this cuz he had the petg in his kit. @RockyTop I think prints commercially so he probs has a better idea on printers! Still at 25psi but I think I'm gonna drop to 15 just to see what that feels like as I am only 70kg... 

[redsnapper]

after a nice amnt of ride time I hv settled on 30psi for the z10. Because of the extra wide tire, z10 suffers from serious train tracking on trails. At low psi (eg 15) this can be quite extreme/ dangerous as the machine can refuse to obey and will follow wtvr surface impressions u cross upon. Even at 30psi trail riding requires vigilance/concentration to avoid getting tracked off trail or into someone else (but it is much worse at 15psi)...