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Feynman

Z10 Problems - Battery?

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Hi All,

I'm having some Z10 issues and am wondering if any of you have experienced similar problems?  If so, what was the solution?

I've been getting a warning for a few days: Tip Battery cell of battery 1 is in big differential voltage.   The two packs seem to be fairly well balanced on the front screen; within a few percent.  The Z10 randomly will alarm and tilt me back at low speed and change to a warning icon (see attached pictures).  When I reboot it this seems to go away.  Sometime it comes back in short order, other times the wheel seems to work fine for several miles.   When this happens the front LEDs flash as well - the top 3 are red, the rest are blue.  

Last night, I rode the wheel normally for about 8 miles without any issues before the above behavior started.  

Do you think this is a bad cell in one of the clusters in pack 1?  

 

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8 hours ago, Feynman said:

Do you think this is a bad cell in one of the clusters in pack 1? 

It seems to point that way.  Did you contact the seller to maybe see what they think?  The Z10 BMS might be able to monitor each cell's charge condition.

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NineBattery app lets you see the individual battery cell voltages on the Z10.

Unfortunately this exact issue has been popping up for Z10 riders here and there, already after a few months of riding. For one local rider the problematic cell varies, which in addition to the facts that the issue is intermittent and that a reboot fixes the issue, makes it extremely difficult for me to believe that the issue would actually be in the battery cells themselves. While the Z10 battery management is certainly unique, sudden voltage differences up to more than 1 volt still do not just appear randomly.

I think there must be either a bug in the firmware or a common defect in the hardware that monitors the battery cell voltages. Either way, unfortunately I haven’t seen an actual fix for the issue.

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2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I think there must be either a bug in the firmware or a common defect in the hardware that monitors the battery cell voltages. Either way, unfortunately I haven’t seen an actual fix for the issue.

I cannot remember where or who posted it, but I'm sure someone tracked his problem down to faulty soldering on one of the battery BMS's.  What was happening in his case was the affected component on the BMS board would work/not work erratically due to the poor connection to the board.  If this is the underlying cause for others it would explain the random nature of the cell voltage fluctuations some owners are seeing!

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Yeah, I am the one who's been suffering from this. Although lately the issue hasn't come up so much. I wonder if changing the BMS board would do it. I think it was @Girth Brooks who had a failing bms board. But dont know if his symptoms matched.

@Feynman how many miles on your wheel. Taken any serious hits? Mine has over 2000 miles and the wheel, like the owner, has taken a beating. Dont know though if that has anything to do with anything.

Edited by Ziiten

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On 9/27/2019 at 11:35 PM, Ziiten said:

 

@Feynman how many miles on your wheel. Taken any serious hits? Mine has over 2000 miles and the wheel, like the owner, has taken a beating. Dont know though if that has anything to do with anything.

About 130 miles, and yes, I've beaten the hell out of the wheel.  It was what I learned on.  That said, no serious crashes at high speed or such.  

I bought the wheel on eBay back in April, and have been communicating with the seller.  She gave me a login to the ninebot app - apparently the Chinese version lets you check individual cell voltages.  Well battery 1 had voltages all over the place, ranging from 3.62V to 4.57V.  After leaving it plugged in for 36 hours everything looked normal.  I've gotta think this is a BMS problem, or some connection to the BMS problem like mentioned above. 

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56 minutes ago, Feynman said:

About 130 miles, and yes, I've beaten the hell out of the wheel.  It was what I learned on.  That said, no serious crashes at high speed or such.  

I bought the wheel on eBay back in April, and have been communicating with the seller.  She gave me a login to the ninebot app - apparently the Chinese version lets you check individual cell voltages.  Well battery 1 had voltages all over the place, ranging from 3.62V to 4.57V.  After leaving it plugged in for 36 hours everything looked normal.  I've gotta think this is a BMS problem, or some connection to the BMS problem like mentioned above. 

This is what I use to check individual cell voltages: https://mimod.ru/en_US/ninebattery/

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hi

Does anyone in z10 land know the interpretation of the 2 tiny LED's on the battery pack?

Obviously one for each battery and I guess red for charging, but solid blue? Or blinking blue?

Thanks

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 I rode a bit tonight and as soon as I turned it on I checked the cell voltages.  Battery1 was f-d up again.  I power-cycle the Z10, check again, and all appears normal.  What???  So I rode it with no problems until I got inside (~2 miles) and started trolley-ing.  The Z10 starts beeping; check the App; cell1 voltage differential warning; cell voltages all over the place...  Reboot, beeping goes away.  On my way out I check again before I start riding - all appears normal.  I ride for another 4 or 5 miles then check the app before I put the wheel in my car - same warning, off kilter cell voltages, etc.  

Am I crazy?  Is this a software issue?

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4 hours ago, Feynman said:

 I rode a bit tonight and as soon as I turned it on I checked the cell voltages.  Battery1 was f-d up again.  I power-cycle the Z10, check again, and all appears normal.  What???  So I rode it with no problems until I got inside (~2 miles) and started trolley-ing.  The Z10 starts beeping; check the App; cell1 voltage differential warning; cell voltages all over the place...  Reboot, beeping goes away.  On my way out I check again before I start riding - all appears normal.  I ride for another 4 or 5 miles then check the app before I put the wheel in my car - same warning, off kilter cell voltages, etc.  

Am I crazy?  Is this a software issue?

This is exactly how my wheel behaves. No logic to it and usually goes away after shutdown. Sometimes I can ride for really long, like until the battery is half empty, before any warnings occur, other times they appear after 10 feet from starting to ride on a full battery. It really looks more like a software issue than a battery problem. I mean, how else would it go away right after a reboot.

Edited by Ziiten

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7 hours ago, Feynman said:

Is this a software issue?

A few posts up it was mentioned that someone had tracked the issue to a bad soldering on the battery BMS. Sounds like the most probable cause based on the symptoms.

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2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

A few posts up it was mentioned that someone had tracked the issue to a bad soldering on the battery BMS. Sounds like the most probable cause based on the symptoms.

How does the issue go away after a reboot if there is a connection problem.

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20 minutes ago, Ziiten said:

How does the issue go away after a reboot if there is a connection problem.

Impossible to say without knowing how the firmware handles the BMS data, or what is the role of the component in question. So, kind of pointless to even guess, but could be that some BMS values are reset or re-read at reboot.

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10 hours ago, Ziiten said:

This is exactly how my wheel behaves. No logic to it and usually goes away after shutdown. Sometimes I can ride for really long, like until the battery is half empty, before any warnings occur, other times they appear after 10 feet from starting to ride on a full battery. It really looks more like a software issue than a battery problem. I mean, how else would it go away right after a reboot.

Glad to know I'm not the only one.  I suppose this could be a spotty solder connection issue on the balancing leads, but it's weird that it resets on reboot.

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Hello All

I am continuing to have similar battery issues, namely bad battery communication for battery no.2, fault code 11.  

I suspect this is a BMS issue but wonder if anyone can add to this?

the next step for me is to pull apart the battery and check each individual cell (not just the clusters) in case my earlier charging oddness experience has screwed a cell or 3.

Any input gratefully received.

cheers

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Hi all,

I also have the issue, error 34. On a z6 ... I can barely use it now, and don't get any idea if battery or mother board is defective.

Sending it to China, or rebuying a new battery is half of the wheel price, not sure it is worth to be done...

Did someone managed to overcome this somehow?

Thanks a lot

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