GotWay Msuper V3 Offroad for grown up's

[Henrik Olsen]

Hello, 

I'm thinking about trying out the new GotWay Msuper V3 as as supplement to our other wheels. I have never tried a 18" wheel, so this is a good opportunity to explore.  

I have 2 concerns: 

1. So far I've heard this wheel is pretty powerful, but also hear it's the HS version. I fear it will not have enough torque for off road scenarios with 100 kg rider fully geared up. What are the experience in real life with hill climbing?  With a KS16 I can climb a 20 dgr. smooth slope (5-8m) from almost still (2-5 kph) anything steeper or longer will make the wheel slow down to a complete stop or I will overlean so the wheel slide away under me. It's not cutting, but feels like it's out of power. Might be my technique, but in general it slows down during the climb.     

2. I also heard that Gotway is using a strategy that will cut off the battery to protect the it, instead of the rider. Can this really be true? In my opinion the rider's safety should be top priority so he could live another day to fix the wheel. High speed cut out should not be tolerated.

Thanks

/Henrik 

 

  

 

  

[TremF]

The MSuper V3 has a similar 1500w motor to my ACM which flies up hills faster and easier than my old Ninebot used to.

The cut out issue with Gotway may have been a temp fix they introduced to stop boards blowing? Basically with the ACM the power surge when setting off or hitting an obstacle slowly sometimes caused the control board to blow so they made it cut out instead - which when stood still or going really slowly isn't a problem. I have landed on my feet each time my ACM dropped.

Once the ACM is moving it runs like a dream. I haven't gone to max speed yet and probably never will.

The ACM now comes with a 12 MOSFET board which handles the surges better and it's possibly the same/similar board in the MSuper V3. This means there should no longer be any zero/low speed cutouts from surges.

[Cloud]

@Henrik Olsen 

regarding 1. From the very few reviews ive seen, there has been no issue with the lack of torque indicated. When we hear "HS" version of Msuper3  only, in our mind we equate that to the HS version of msuper 2, which had lower torque in relation to MS and HT. I believe we should get away from that thinking. I dont see any reason why this version should be any weaker than Ks18. We will know more when the reviews come in

2. Regarding pritecting the battery vs the rider - i believe you are talking about the conversations had months ago, which was a "genralization" prompted by the fact that there was no tiltback incorporated in earlier versions and that the motor would cut out at  a certain power demand. Tiltback has now been incorporated, and it, as well as the beeps should kick in before the motor cut out speed. I wouldnt go to classify the gotway algorithm as protecting the battery as opposed to the rider any more. 

Now, i am not sure if the motor is programmed to cut out at a certain speed or simply when the battery runs out of juice and cant physically support the rider anyway, but i am pretty sure these two power/ speed levels are pretty close to each other. A lift test will show the free rotating cut out speeds

[egiljo]

I'm around 92 kg + protection gear. I have had no trouble with tourque up steep hills on the Msuper V3. 

One of these hills drained 50% battery on my Ninebot e+ (with 3 stops), and it just managed to get up there tourque wise. 

The V3 flies up these hills compared to Ninebot e+ (like TremF says about his ACM).

 

[checho]

I would recomend to wait for a high torque version here is the reasoning:

If you weight over 100kg and will be riding off road on hills steeper than 15 degrees it is best to wait.

Lets compare to msuper v2 since it is the only unicycle that came in 3 motor versions.

Power at 1500w it is a big improvement vs 1000w.

Control board designed to handle 50% more power with 12 mosfets based on the improved control board of the ACM definetly an improvement over msuper v2.

Now doing other comparisons the Kv of the msuper v2 hs and msuper v3 are nearly identical that means nearly identical motor winding, therefore the only thing helping you in hills is the extra power nothing else, and to give some numbers that is 50% better compared to the msuper v2 hs. But the msuper v2 ht was approximately 50% better at climbimg hills vs msuper v2 hs due to the lower Kv of the motor making the HT version great for hills but poor for high speed.

Based on this info we can conclude that the msuper v2 ht and the msuper v3 hs are approximately the same at hill climbing, but the msuper v2 ht will be more efficient at hills due to the lower Kv and acomplishing the same task with less power, in other words due to the high Kv of the HS version it will not be as efficient at hills as the HT version.

If you want speed then no need to wait the msuper v3 is a greatly improved design over the v2.

But if you are heavy over 100kg, and do ride very fast, and like off roading on hills the choices are poor the v3 hs will not be efficient on hills and the v2 ht is an older design.

Think of this if the v2 ht is 50% better on hills than the v2 hs, on the v3 that proportion would be the same for the v3, that is if the Kv for a ht v3 is the same as the Kv v2 ht, we could expect a v3 ht be 50% better at hills then a v3 hs, now 50% better at the same power that is a lot better, the ht v3 would of course be slower.

I think if there is a lot of interest in a v3 ht ( high torque) gotway may make one, i am definetly interested in a v3 ht.

I think it is good to have choices some may want speed and that is fine, but others may enjoy the greater acceleration that the extra torque provides, and the safety provided by the extra torque, and a few will be in between and the ms is good for them.

In my case i will wait for a msuper v3 ht.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

1 hour ago, checho said:

I would recomend to wait for a high torque version...

Is there going to even be an HT version? 

[checho]

1 hour ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Is there going to even be an HT version? 

Linea Lin Gotway said possibly if there was enough interest, on an older post. 

So there is a chance there might be a msuper v3 HT in future.

My guess is that for msuper v2 HT did not sold as well as MS or HS, but maybe it sold enough to justy its production.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

1 hour ago, checho said:

Linea Lin Gotway said possibly if there was enough interest, on an older post. 

So there is a chance there might be a msuper v3 HT in future.

My guess is that for msuper v2 HT did not sold as well as MS or HS, but maybe it sold enough to justy its production.

That appeals to me - even if it had to be a special order. 

My IPS will do 30kph,which is plenty for me, so turning that extra Msuper power into torque instead would be great. Particularly where I live, as even our "smoothest" paths are pretty crap - so having to be less concerned with unexpected terrain changes would be ideal. 

[Henrik Olsen]

@checho I understand what you are saying and it makes sense. 

In real life I heard from users like Stefan Eekenulv that has owned both V2 and V3 that is has awesome power, and offroading and hill climbing is no issue at all..  I do not know what he has been doing to make this conclusion, but I know he is on the Real Viking class like me and drives at lot offroad in the areas where he live in sweden. 

Right now I can do around 20dgr (5-8m) with KS16, so I can't imagine V3 will performs worse than that even with the bigger size..  

With that said I would choose a HT version if available.

 

[EricGhost]

@checho I'm for torque vs speed too, mainly for safety reasons and because I enjoy acceleration much more tha speed

 

[checho]

On 8/29/2016 at 4:54 AM, Henrik Olsen said:

@checho I understand what you are saying and it makes sense. 

In real life I heard from users like Stefan Eekenulv that has owned both V2 and V3 that is has awesome power, and offroading and hill climbing is no issue at all..  I do not know what he has been doing to make this conclusion, but I know he is on the Real Viking class like me and drives at lot offroad in the areas where he live in sweden. 

Right now I can do around 20dgr (5-8m) with KS16, so I can't imagine V3 will performs worse than that even with the bigger size..  

With that said I would choose a HT version if available.

 

awesome power for a 70kg rider is barely acceptable power for a 120kg rider.

you can do 20 degree with a ks16 that means you are a light rider, there is a post on this forum of someone doing a 10 degree hill and burning the control board of the ks16, but that was a heavy rider. Weight plays a big role on hills, and the current generation of unicycles are not designed for heavy riders.

I have also burned the control board of a ks18A on a 10 to 12 degree hill.

The gown up's weigh a lot more than young riders, and as the unicycle is pushed to its limits if becomes less efficient.

About a month ago  I had a fall at 25 KM/H and it was enough to fracture my shoulder, for now I am not riding until I recover, I was wearing a helmet but not elbow protection, I hit with my elbow the pavement and the shoulder fractured, it is a small fracture but will take about 1 month to recover.

If at 25 km/h is enough speed to get a fracture, a fall at 40 km/h is a direct trip to the hospital, for that reason it is best to have more torque and not more speed.

I have tested at 115 KG unicycles at several hills and usually the max they can handle is about 10 to 12 degrees, very far from the advertised 30 degrees.

Torque is really lacking for grown-ups.

If there existed a unicycle that could take me up a 20 degree hill without overheating I would be really happy but such a unicycle does not exist when the load is 115 Kg.

Another area where torque is really needed is riding on wet sand, dry sand it is impossible since the unicycle would need a very wide wheel, I tried riding on wet sand on a ninebot and it was not possible, on an ips 121 it was barely ride-able, since the wheel would sink in the wet sand about 1 cm and the motor had to struggle to move me.

I hope Gotway releases a HT of the msuper v3.

if Gotway does release a HT version, when riding at around 20KM/h the HT version will use less power than the HS version, therefore increasing your range.

when riding on Mexico at night on a ips 121 I hit a 5 cm bump on a sidewalk and it was not able to go over it which resulted in a faceplant, the ips121 is the unicycle  that has the best torque out of the ones i have, and even then I wished it had more torque, I tried it on a 15 degree hill and it failed.

I already have a ks18A HS, so I do not need a Gotway msuper v3 HS, but I do need an HT version.

 

[Cloud]

Yeah the difference the weight makes is amazing.  I am so tuned to my wheel, its basically become my legs, that when i skip breakfast and lunch, and i am 3 lbs lighter than normal, i can clearly feel a tremedous increase in acceleration. Even 1.5 kg is enough to make a huge difference,.  I am 100kg

[Henrik Olsen]

@checho - I would not consider my self a light rider .. we measured the slope and recorded the attempt (I'm the second rider on this video) and finally made it with a some initial speed. I have learned since then it's a matter a technique, clamping the wheel instead of just leaning.. that makes a big difference..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Martti]

Got my new Msuper3 today. There is no instructions how to pair Bluetooth with my iPhone4 and Gotway2 app?

What shold the tire pressure be, my weight is 98 kg?

Martti

[egiljo]

4 hours ago, Martti said:

Got my new Msuper3 today. There is no instructions how to pair Bluetooth with my iPhone4 and Gotway2 app?

What shold the tire pressure be, my weight is 98 kg?

Martti

Tyre pressure depends on where you ride and personal preference, usually I have around 37 psi and weight around 95 with equipment.Your choice may be different

[Donafello]

I dont think a iphone 4 will work. it's to old of a phone

[Martti]

On 14. syyskuuta 2016 at 11:41 PM, egiljo said:

Tyre pressure depends on where you ride and personal preference, usually I have around 37 psi and weight around 95 with equipment.Your choice may be different

Thanks,

I had 40psi at first, now added to 45psi.

Sill wobling, which is familar from motorcycle with soft front tire.

Wobling stoped totay when I moved my shoes worward about one inch.

 

[egiljo]

17 minutes ago, Martti said:

Thanks,

I had 40psi at first, now added to 45psi.

Sill wobling, which is familar from motorcycle with soft front tire.

Wobling stoped totay when I moved my shoes worward about one inch.

 

Yes, wobbling is also depended on feet placement, but also weight placement by my experience. By weight placement I mean if I lean hole body forward or if I bend ankles and knees to shift weight forward (or backward). The later redused wobble to almost zero for me.

I think the importance of feet and weight placement is related to the large comfy pedals.

[egiljo]

So weight is mostly centered on the Axle of the wheel

[Martti]

On 15. syyskuuta 2016 at 0:01 AM, Donafello said:

I dont think a iphone 4 will work. it's to old of a phone

Thanks,

Time to have a new phone.

 

[MaxLinux]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 3:35 AM, checho said:

when riding on Mexico at night on a ips 121 I hit a 5 cm bump on a sidewalk and it was not able to go over it which resulted in a faceplant, the ips121 is the unicycle  that has the best torque out of the ones i have, and even then I wished it had more torque, I tried it on a 15 degree hill and it failed.

My IPS 121 can probably go over a 5 cm bump, but only if done very carefully. The 2.5 inch tire of the IPS 191 would be very helpful on a bump like this. Recently I hit a deep pothole (probably less than 5 cm though) while I was looking at the scenery instead of the road. I was very thankful for the torque of the 191 to get up out of the pothole.

[zlymex]

I have both V2 medium speed and V3, both added pedal extension for easy slope climb.
I'm 75kg(in the Autumn suit) and the steep slope I can climb is 24 degree with my V2. I have a Leica digital slope meter to measure the slope precisely.

I don't have the chance to test/measure V3 for climb ability yet, but from 'Russian hand' test and swing test, I estimate that V3 has 20% larger torque than my V2. In another word, I can climb 29 degree with my V3, or 100kg rider for 22 degree slope.

P.S. steep slope climb takes skill. Need slow and uniform in speed, and arms open for extra balance. It was my 3rd try on the above photo, I failed the first two, the wheel just gave in. 

Another factor to compare is the lift test for no load speed. My V3 read 43 app speed 40 true speed, my V3 read 52 app speed 51 true speed, both on full battery. If 2/3 of the no load speed is considered safe, then I can ride V2 at 26.6 top but V3 at 34 top.