Solowheel Xtreme First Impressions

[Sam Clegg]

I've been waiting for the xtreme for a long time now.  I pre-ordered it last     
year in November 2014.  At first we were told if would ship in time for          
Christmas but that date slipped several times.  The wheel finally arrived a      
couple of weeks ago in late June 2015.  I think it was one of the first consumer 
units to ship in USA.                                                            
                                                                                 
This is my 4th wheel. I own the original Solowheel 1500 and a Gotway MTen and    
MTen2.  I have also had a Gotway MCM2 on loan to me for the last 6 six           
weeks and that has been my goto wheel for the whole time.  I wanted to ride it   
exclusively for a long period to that I could do fair assessment of the MCM2     
against the original Solowheel.  However, I'll leave most of that for another    
review.                                                                          
                                                                                 
I've been riding the xtreme exclusively for two weeks now since I got it.  My    
daily commute is 1.5 miles to the train and the 0.5 at the other end so a        
total of around 4 miles a day.                                                   
                                                                                 
I've taken a bunch of pictures of the xtreme and made videos of the unboxing as  
well as some of my first few rides.  I've updated the statistics on the wiki:   http://electricunicycle.wikia.com/wiki/Stats. 

First impressions are that while it is clearly bigger than the original it       
doesn't feel as heavy of bulky as I was expecting.  I certainly doesn't feel as  
big as the Gotway msuper although I have not yes had a chance to compare them    
side by side.  The wheel doesn't feel any wider than the original SW between     
the legs (indeed it is not measurably wider) and since the point of contact with 
the inside leg is higher up it is even more comfortable to ride,                 
especially if when riding one footed.                                            
                                                                                 
Just like the original SW the device has just single button which is used to     
turn the device on an off, and a single port for charging the battery.  The      
charger has a completely new magsafe-like connector which is a nice-to-have but  
doesn't really add much value.  The button is a "soft" button which mean you     
need to hold it down for about a second to turn it off.  Turning it on doesn't   
require this.                                                                    
                                                                                 
The voltage of the device and the charger has not changed (58V) however the      
silent changer it ships with is now 2A rather then 1.5A.  For for previous       
generation there were two chargers on the market: 1.5A silent changer and        
2A changer with audible fan.                                                     
                                                                                 
There are LED lights front (blue) and back (red).  The front lights double as a  
battery readout, but it can be a little hard to see how many rows are lit.  I    
believe there are 4 levels.  At night the bright blue LEDs shine upwards which   
can be a little blinding for the rider (who is generally looking downwards).  I  
ended up covering the front lights with duct tape while riding at night to       
reduce the brightness.  As far as I can tell there is no way to control the      
lights or their brightness (hopefully the bluetooth app will allow this, once it 
is available). 

In terms of the riding style it feels a lot like the original Solowheel.  That   
is to say it has a very soft feel to it.  When you lean, the wheel initially     
leans with you before accelerating to counter your lean.  While I used to love   
this style and sometimes do still enjoy it, my six weeks of riding the MCM2      
(mostly in madden mode) have made me a convert to stiffer firmware.  Hopefully   
this is something that can be addressed once the bluetooth app for the xtreme is 
released.  According to Inventist this is being worked on now but they have not  
given be a release date.  I'd really love to see the stiffness of the ride be    
configurable.  The stiffer firmware seems better suited to tricks in             
general. Speaking of bluetooth, the device shows up on my phone as XTREME and it 
seems to be a bluetooth LE (low energy) device.                                  
                                                                                 
For commuting the ride style is great and the device is very comfortable and     
stable.  The larger tire (2.5" wide, 18" diameter) makes uneven surfaces less    
of a problem, and I no longer worry about 2-3" curbs.  Larger curbs are still a  
problem, and I think the soft firmware doesn't help here since it increases the  
latency between hitting the curb and the wheel trying to climb it.  Carving down 
wide sidewalks is a complete pleasure.  It feels slightly less maneuverable than 
its little brother (which is to be expected since the wheel is larger) but it    
makes up for it comfort and smoothness.                                          
                                                                                 
Riding up hill long/steep hills is a little tricky due to the "level effect".    
This was reported by msuper riders too, but I think the softer firmware makes    
this issue even worse.  Sometime I have ended up standing on my tiptoes on the   
front of the pedals and still unable to accelerate.  In these cases I have ended 
up squeezing my knees together to get more leverage, but its a shame since this  
doesn't happen with smaller wheels.  Again, I can see this being ameliorated by  
stiffer firmware.                                                                
                                                                               
Finally, I have run into an issue with sensor drift on the new xtreme.  It seems 
that after mode rides the pedals will tilt forward as if the sense of "down" is  
off.  The extent of the drift seems to be up to about 6 degrees.  Leaving the    
device off (or charging) for a more than about 10 minutes seems to make the issue
go away, but power cycling doesn't not help.  Hopefully this issue is            
addressable and Inventist will be able to fix it in a firmware update, or        
perhaps its an issue with my device, and they can replace something.  Anyway,    
this is a serious enough issue that I think I will need to send it back to them  
in the coming months, although not serious enough to stop me riding it right     
away.  6 degree is a fair amount by the wheel is still ridable.                  
                                                                                 
In summary, assuming the sensor drift issue in an anomaly, this is a powerful    
and comfortable commute vehicle.  It glides smoothly and effortless around       
town and over rough terrain.  Is it worth the 2-3x price tag compared the to     
msuper?  Probably not.  For me its worth it, but I'm not a normal customer.      
The soft firmware means its not ideal for tricks, but 18" wheels are not well    
suited to tricks in any case.  I am hopefull and excited to see what options     
and/or fixes can be provided by updated firmware and/or the bluethooth app.      
I will continue to post updates here as I have more riding time and once         
I've had a chance to compare it side by side with the msuper.

Unboxing: 

First Ride:

 Riding around City Hall in San Francisco:

 

[Sam Clegg]

 

[dmethvin]

Great review! That blue light is pretty bright, I wonder why they didn't angle it forward more rather than pointing it up into your face. Also, the top speed is a bit low for my taste.

[Jason McNeil]

Thanks for sharing! Have you been able to do a range test? 

[Sam Clegg]

No range test yet.   But in my speed tests I was able to get spikes of 20km/h so it looks like the top speed might be a little higher than the advertised 16. (still not fast for many people I know).

[MvM]

Sam,

Thanks for the review.
Personally, I only had a little trouble with the pedals tilting forward in very tight turns using the same technique that I'm using for my Classic Solowheel, but other than that, I did not really have a problem with it. A little stiffer ride would make the Xtreme a little more like the Classic model.

As for speed, I felt that it was just a little faster than the original.
When I just had my SW, I very much wished for a higher speed, but after a serious and unexpected faceplant on hard pavement, I can understand why anything over 20 km/h would prove very undesirable, so for me, 20 km/h is enough.
If you want to go faster, you better think of riding with some form of protection like a helmet, gloves etc. I simply don't wish to ride around like that. It would take away some of the simplicity of using an EU in an urban environment (like, just grab it and ride away).

 

[Daan]

Nice review  and similar to my experience up till now. I don't think the wheel reaches 20km/h though -- did you measure with a phone GPS? this can be quite imprecise with regard to max speed. Personally, I only have the wheel for about 3 weeks now but already I wish it would go faster, lol. a steady 20km/h would be perfect I think.

[Sam Clegg]

Daan, how would you suggest measuring the max speed other than with GPS?

 

Also, have you noticed any sensor drift?  (can you measure the tilt of the pedals with the clinimoter app on your phone?)

[esaj]

Daan, how would you suggest measuring the max speed other than with GPS?

Pretty much nothing beats bike computer with correct wheel circumference (taking into account how much the tire pushes in with weight). Just tape the magnet to the rim, the sensor on the shell and attach the computer "somehow", here's what I did with the Firewheel:

Pretty "temporary" (actually I've used it for a long time, but the tapes need to be changed from time to time as they start to come off ). The black "blob" on the lower image is the sensor, the magnet is attached with duct tape to the rim.

[Daan]

Daan, how would you suggest measuring the max speed other than with GPS?

Probably best with a bike computer like Esaj suggests. I just know that the GPS on the phone is not good for this. Another way is to find a flat track, then go full speed, unpause the tracker on your phone and go for a minute full speed, and then pause again and look up the average speed -- that should be pretty precise if you were able to maintain full speed 

 

Also, have you noticed any sensor drift?  (can you measure the tilt of the pedals with the clinimoter app on your phone?)

Not yet -- you mean that the pedals are off while you are riding the wheel? I will try to measure it -- just charged.  I do feel sometimes after going full speed for a while that when I go more slow it seems as if the pedals are down in front but I guess that is because I got used to the tilting that happens when you go max speed.

[Sam Clegg]

 

Not bad top speed, I thought Xtreme's were limited to 16km/h? Or was that downhill speed? Now you can also get accurate measurements for the battery range.

The official specs say the max speed is 16 but it looks like in practice its a little more and it certainly can have momentary peaks of a much more before slowing you down with tilt back.

Ah, that explains the abysmal range   I guess I am lucky it works at all :-)    I want to keep track of the total miles that I ride the wheel so I need to figure out a nice way to attach the speedometer; for now I attached it to the head light but it is not ideal.

I'm guessing the xtreme has a pentameter odometer in its like the newer gotways, and once the bluetooth app comes out you will be able to see you on overall milage using that.  (I would be very disapointed if that was not a feature of the app anyway).

We could even try to explore the bluetooth LE properties to extract this information before the official app is released.

No worries Esaj   I got it off pretty well; just a blackish mark but that's ok. I installed the wired speedometer instead -- not as pretty but not too bad. And now it works perfect -- I got a top speed of 19.4 km/hr today   -- I wish it would go faster still but it is definitely capable of going faster than the 16km/hr in the specs. (of course, one is not supposed to keep leaning in when the tilt-back happens so do this at your own risk).  btw. sorry Sam for somewhat hijacking your excellent review thread with speedometer issues; I'll stop now . Btw. watched your videos now and you are very skilled!

No problem! Thanks for sharing your experiences.

How does the speed sensor know how fast the wheel is turning, is it purly an optical thing?  If so, how does it know the diameter of the wheel?  Do you need to program that in?  (sorry these I'm sure are noob questions, I've just never used one of those computers before).

Not yet -- you mean that the pedals are off while you are riding the wheel? I will try to measure it -- just charged.  I do feel sometimes after going full speed for a while that when I go more slow it seems as if the pedals are down in front but I guess that is because I got used to the tilting that happens when you go max speed.

I suggest you install the "clinometer" android app.   You can place it on the pedal and see how much forward of backward lean/drift you have.  I find that I get up about 7 degrees of forward drift, depending how long I ride for.  The first is semi-permanent (it goes back to zero after being off for several hours) so you can measure it when the wheel is still.  Please do measure your angles before and after your next ride.  I'm curious to know if I'm the only one with this issue.

[esaj]

 

How does the speed sensor know how fast the wheel is turning, is it purly an optical thing?  If so, how does it know the diameter of the wheel?  Do you need to program that in?  (sorry these I'm sure are noob questions, I've just never used one of those computers before).

There's a magnet that you attach to the tire rim and the sensor has some sort of switch/metal plates that close and then open each time the magnet passes them (at least on mine the sensor must be pretty close to the magnet when it passes by, < 0.5cm / <0.2inch distance). In my wired version, the computer is the only thing needing batteries, the sensor is entirely mechanical, of course in wireless version the sensor needs batteries to send the signal (and as we see from above, don't try to use wireless versions near electrical motor).

The circumference of the wheel is programmed into the computer (in my Sigma, there's a programming button in the back that you press with a pen), so that's where it calculates speed, trip, average speed, stores max speed etc. You can use a table-value based on wheel diameter, I just put the table value of 1272mm for 16" tire, but in reality my tire is 1310mm without load, so my measured top speeds/ranges could actually be a bit higher in reality than the computer shows, but with the tire pushing in a bit with weight on top (circumference = pi * diameter, so if the tire pushes in 10mm, the circumference drops about 31.4mm, 1310-31.4 = 1 278.6mm), it can't be far off. If you know the exact circumference (with your weight on top) you can get to near 0% error, but even changing tire pressure will slightly alter it. Still much, much more reliable than any consumer GPS, before the bike computer, I tried with iPhone GPS in my pocket, it said my max speed was almost 40km/h in a trip where I'd maybe gone 25km/h max .

[esaj]

As the conversation went WAAAY off topic from the Solowheel Xtreme to the bike computers, I moved the rest of the bike-computer conversation to its own topic here:  http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/710-bike-computers/

Sorry, Sam! 

[Daan]

I suggest you install the "clinometer" android app.   You can place it on the pedal and see how much forward of backward lean/drift you have.  I find that I get up about 7 degrees of forward drift, depending how long I ride for.  The first is semi-permanent (it goes back to zero after being off for several hours) so you can measure it when the wheel is still.  Please do measure your angles before and after your next ride.  I'm curious to know if I'm the only one with this issue.

Hi Sam, I did this and measured before the ride, during, and after. Pretty long ride with lots of hills. Anyway, everything is perfectly aligned X,Y, and Z-axis are all perfect, as in 0, 0, 90 degrees -- incredible actually when you think about it   Anyway, it looks like something is off with your wheel ...

[dvdmshr]

Nice comprehensive review, Sam Clegg.  I very much appreciate it and it was one of the influences that made me decide to take the leap and get an Xtreme.  Of course, the $1,200 trade-in offered by Inventist also makes it hard to pass on the upgrade.

 

I only have had experience with genuine Solowheels.  The Xtreme is just my second EUC.

 

I have had a Solowheel Classic since August 2013.  I received my Xtreme around 7/20/15.  I think my Classic was the 1000 watt model.  I think my Xtreme came a little more than two-weeks after I ordered it.  I sent my Classic back for the trade-in within a week of receiving my Xtreme (you have up to two-weeks to trade it in).  The trade-in comes in a form of a credit to your payment method (e.g., credit card).  Inventist took about a day (after receipt of my Classic) to verify its operation and approve the credit.  The credit showed up on my credit card statement within a couple of days.

 

I have not experienced (thankfully!) the "sensor drift" issue you allude to in your review.

 

I agree with most of the observations in your review.  The Xtreme is larger and a little heavier than the Classic and this took a bit of getting used to.  It's not that much of an adjustment, though, and I don't really notice much decline in maneuverability.  It seems like it is actually a little easier to ride at a walking pace in comparison to the Classic.

 

It is definitely a more comfortable ride.  The larger diameter and wider tire is the most significant factor in this, but the larger foot platforms are also nice.  The more powerful motor also helps in this regard.  Range seems to have improved close to 50%, but I have not actually tested this.

 

Thanks, also, to Daan for that teardown (installing the bicycle computer).  Most helpful as I was wondering what I would do if I needed to repair a flat or change a tire! 

 

There is conflicting information on the Solowheel sales site for the Xtreme.  For example, it cites the Xtreme at both 2,000 and 1,800 watt motors.  I believe it is an 1,800 watt motor.  The site also talks about a quick charger.  I inquired about this and was told there is none available in the U.S. - apparently it is a China thing.

 

My experience with charging is similar to the Classic - basically a one-for-one charge time - if you ride it for an hour, you can expect to charge it for an hour.

 

The blue light doesn't really bother me at night, but I haven't experienced it actually changing to reflect charge level.  I wonder if something is wrong.  It always seems to show a full charge.  I typically run it around 40 minutes (4-5 miles) and the "charge indicator" at the end of the ride appears unchanged from what it looked like at the beginning.

 

On the issue of "soft" versus "firm" ride - my first impression is that the Xtreme was a little "softer" than the Classic.  I would prefer a firmer ride, but it is not a show stopper for me.  I'm hoping that the upcoming app can be used to adjust this, but I've seen conflicting information regarding this, so I'm not holding my breath.  I suspect the softer ride makes it more forgiving for beginning riders.

 

The Xtreme does seem a smidge faster than the Classic.  For me, the maximum speed of 10 m.p.h. is, generally, enough.  The sidewalks were I ride tend to be uneven enough that going much faster would not be a good idea.

 

I think I would prefer if the back "fender" extended a little further down the back of the wheel to enhance its mudguard function.

 

I am very happy with my decision to trade-in my Classic for an Xtreme.

[Sam Clegg]

Nice comprehensive review, Sam Clegg.  I very much appreciate it and it was one of the influences that made me decide to take the leap and get an Xtreme.  Of course, the $1,200 trade-in offered by Inventist also makes it hard to pass on the upgrade.

 

I only have had experience with genuine Solowheels.  The Xtreme is just my second EUC.

 

I have had a Solowheel Classic since August 2013.  I received my Xtreme around 7/20/15.  I think my Classic was the 1000 watt model.  I think my Xtreme came a little more than two-weeks after I ordered it.  I sent my Classic back for the trade-in within a week of receiving my Xtreme (you have up to two-weeks to trade it in).  The trade-in comes in a form of a credit to your payment method (e.g., credit card).  Inventist took about a day (after receipt of my Classic) to verify its operation and approve the credit.  The credit showed up on my credit card statement within a couple of days.

 

I have not experienced (thankfully!) the "sensor drift" issue you allude to in your review.

 

I agree with most of the observations in your review.  The Xtreme is larger and a little heavier than the Classic and this took a bit of getting used to.  It's not that much of an adjustment, though, and I don't really notice much decline in maneuverability.  It seems like it is actually a little easier to ride at a walking pace in comparison to the Classic.

 

It is definitely a more comfortable ride.  The larger diameter and wider tire is the most significant factor in this, but the larger foot platforms are also nice.  The more powerful motor also helps in this regard.  Range seems to have improved close to 50%, but I have not actually tested this.

 

Thanks, also, to Daan for that teardown (installing the bicycle computer).  Most helpful as I was wondering what I would do if I needed to repair a flat or change a tire! 

 

There is conflicting information on the Solowheel sales site for the Xtreme.  For example, it cites the Xtreme at both 2,000 and 1,800 watt motors.  I believe it is an 1,800 watt motor.  The site also talks about a quick charger.  I inquired about this and was told there is none available in the U.S. - apparently it is a China thing.

 

My experience with charging is similar to the Classic - basically a one-for-one charge time - if you ride it for an hour, you can expect to charge it for an hour.

 

The blue light doesn't really bother me at night, but I haven't experienced it actually changing to reflect charge level.  I wonder if something is wrong.  It always seems to show a full charge.  I typically run it around 40 minutes (4-5 miles) and the "charge indicator" at the end of the ride appears unchanged from what it looked like at the beginning.

 

On the issue of "soft" versus "firm" ride - my first impression is that the Xtreme was a little "softer" than the Classic.  I would prefer a firmer ride, but it is not a show stopper for me.  I'm hoping that the upcoming app can be used to adjust this, but I've seen conflicting information regarding this, so I'm not holding my breath.  I suspect the softer ride makes it more forgiving for beginning riders.

 

The Xtreme does seem a smidge faster than the Classic.  For me, the maximum speed of 10 m.p.h. is, generally, enough.  The sidewalks were I ride tend to be uneven enough that going much faster would not be a good idea.

 

I think I would prefer if the back "fender" extended a little further down the back of the wheel to enhance its mudguard function.

 

I am very happy with my decision to trade-in my Classic for an Xtreme.

Nice to hear from another owner!  Can you please confirm the sensor drift issue... by installing the Clinomter app and placing the phone on the pedal.  It should be within 1 degree of level on startup.  Please measure it after a long ride and see if its any different.  If you don't have it I will try to send my wheel back..

[Daan]

Nice to hear from another owner!  Can you please confirm the sensor drift issue... by installing the Clinomter app and placing the phone on the pedal.  It should be within 1 degree of level on startup.  Please measure it after a long ride and see if its any different.  If you don't have it I will try to send my wheel back..

Hi Sam, Just in case you missed my previous post -- I tried this and on my wheel the pedals are perfectly horizontal, before and after the ride....

In case dvdmshr has the same, you may want to contact inventist first by email -- I have found the very helpful and responsive.

[dvdmshr]

Nice to hear from another owner!  Can you please confirm the sensor drift issue... by installing the Clinomter app and placing the phone on the pedal.  It should be within 1 degree of level on startup.  Please measure it after a long ride and see if its any different.  If you don't have it I will try to send my wheel back..

Hi Sam,

Not exactly a long ride, but no change in pedal incline after 40 minutes/4 miles.  I've ridden for a little longer in the past, and though I didn't actually measure the incline, I didn't notice any change at the end of the ride.  Sounds like what you have would be noticeable.

[Chrisxr2]

In Europe we can sign a disclaimer and have a top speed of 22 kph , my xtreme arrives tomorrow, it's my first euc sonnothing to compare it to.

[castShadow]

@Sam Clegg  Very nice riding.  I want to emulate that style of riding.  = )   Very smooth, with ease and very good control.

Hmm - I'll go see if you have videos of riding MTen.