Caught on Video: Stupid EU User!

[dmethvin]

That's me. 

I got a nice Gopro-style camera and decided to take it out for a test drive. Then I decided to take a road I had only done once before so it wasn't so familiar. Then I decided to run right at the edge with the beeping, which I do a lot, but I was right next to a noisy road. Then I didn't slow down when I got to muddy uneven sidewalk. You'll notice I lost control next to a tree, which had pushed the sidewalk up about an inch so that I was basically going off a ramp. The camera catches a brief shot of my perfectly executed faceplant into a muddy bank next to the sidewalk.

If you listen carefully to the audio you will hear the Firewheel lady saying "You are speeding". Remember that the camera is basically right next to the speaker so if it's that hard to hear there you can darn well bet I didn't hear it. But this is really a case of me going too fast, especially on a crappy sidewalk. We seem to have a lot of those around here. 

[Raymonizer]

ouch...

I can see myself doing that one day.   were you wearing a wrist guard?   

[esaj]

Ouch indeed... glad you didn't hurt yourself any worse. I've fallen once on the Firewheel, with big bumps in the road caused by ground frost during winter. I went over them too fast, and started braking just as going over those, getting nearly to stop after them but then fell to my side.

[hobby16]

wow, your knee has taken a hit !

The pavement seems bad because of the many concrete slabs junctions. Unfit for such speeds, or not, because a lowered camera always gives the impression of higher speeds (example of karting).

I have a portion of road a bit like that over 2km long and I think taking it at 25km/h with the Firewheel is possible, provided you know perfectly the holes & bumps.

[dmethvin]

@Raymonizer I was wearing my fingerless bicycle gloves which protected me pretty well, combined with the fact that my hands went into mud rather than concrete.

 

@hobby16 Yeah, those junctions are very uneven at times, especially near the trees. If I was prepared a bit more I could have recovered, but I did not see that one because it dropped off rather than bumped up. I learned my lesson and will be more careful!

[John Eucist]

Damn.  Were you injured?  If not, the consolation is you got it on video. 

[Michael Vu]

Yeah ouch, reminds me exactly of my faceplant on my firewheel. What was she saying starting around 0:50? It sounds like nothing I've heard from my firewheel. Sounds something like "96 nine 99 miles per hour"? My firewheel just says "Take care, take care" as its last thing before it shutsoff.

 

[esaj]

Yeah ouch, reminds me exactly of my faceplant on my firewheel. What was she saying starting around 0:50? It sounds like nothing I've heard from my firewheel. Sounds something like "96 nine 99 miles per hour"? My firewheel just says "Take care, take care" as its last thing before it shutsoff.

I don't think the voice in dmethvins' video is coming from the wheel, could be wrong though... And your faceplant looks and sounds very painful 

At least hobby16 and I both have shunted BMSs, and I'm not sure if that's the cause, but I do know this:

I bought my Firewheel F260 used. The previous owner (vee73) had used it unshunted, and had fallen with it many times, he said it shuts down around 28km/h, after you hear the "Take care"-message. Then he shunted the wheel, and when shunting it, noticed that one wire on the BMS was held in only by the shrinkwrap!

oh dear
I touched another cable, and it was just out of it. Plain shrink has kept the cable in place.

Also, another cord is the time to be plugged in securely 

He never then proceeded to test the max speed again before selling it to me.

I didn't have any way to measure my speed at first, and was afraid of faceplanting. Then once when riding it was windy, and after it calmed down a bit, I noticed that the wheel had been playing the "Take care"-message all the time (I was riding pretty much at steady speed), I just hadn't heard it. No shutdown. Later on, I put a bike computer on the wheel, which gives me pretty accurate readings (1272mm tire circumefence set on the computer, which is a table-value for 16" tire, the real circumefence of the tire is 1310mm unloaded) and tested max speed. I got to 31.5km/h, sustained, but didn't dare to go any faster (there probably is a cut off SOMEWHERE at even higher speeds, but that's enough speed for me). No shutdown. Since then I've ridden several times at sustained speeds above 28km/h (but never again at over 31km/h), the "Take care, take care"-message just keeps repeating, but I've never had a shutdown. Hobby16 has shunted his F260 too, and it doesn't shut down (I think he once said he can do over 35km/h on it without shutdown, but he probably has newer firmware and/or board revision than me).

I don't know whether it's because of the shunt, or if the bad connection on the BMS had something to do with it, but it seems the 28km/h shutdown is now gone, and it was there before the shunt/fixing the wire.

Edit: some more information that could be relevant:

We know that there have been AT LEAST 3 different revisions of the mainboard circuitry: The original from sometime last summer (August - maybe October), which didn't have separate Sport- and Comfortable-mode. Then there's the next one, which has the modes. and dmethvin has now got the newest(?) board that was modified because there was a chip (I think it was a stepdown-transformer) that could easily burn, usually it happened within a week or so of starting to use the wheel. Mine has the "middle" version, the first board burned within a week on vee73, and was replaced sometime early January (I think), so it's probably from a batch produced in November or December, but has worked just fine since (300-400 battery cycles ridden). Hobby16 bought his in April (I think), and it probably is the same revision, but with different firmware (or maybe even different board revision), dmethvin apparently first had also the same board, but it burned, he then got a new revision of the board, where the circuitry has been changed around the part which burned.

On top of this, there could have been god-knows-how-many changes in the firmware between different production batches of the same board design, so I don't know how the shunt does or does not affect each one. It seems that at least I and hobby16 have different firmware (if not entire board), because his F260 does a sudden fast acceleration when hitting something like 28-30km/h and goes up to... around 33km/h I think? I don't have that. Also he says the voice-warnings always come at the same speeds, on my board, the "Take care"-message some times plays (it doesn't always keep repeating) when riding around 24-26km/h on more empty battery, especially after accelerating to that speed, but with full battery it occurs only after 28km/h, so mine could have the warnings triggered by low voltage or high current (and maybe the rpm also, if going above 28km/h?), with hobby16's board, it seems it happens only when the motor rpm is high enough.

I don't know for sure if and why the shunt prevents the "normal" shutdown after 28km/h, so I can only guess. If the BMS overdischarge protection activates, I think it should "latch", ie. the wheel wouldn't start again until the battery gets some power via charger to reset. But apparently (I'm not sure, would have to check vee73) the earlier 28km/h shutdown didn't cause the wheel to lose power totally, ie. you could restart it and still ride. It could also be related to the overcurrent protection of the BMS, if it isn't latched, as it appears that that's also bypassed by the shunt-mod. Or then the overdischarge protection activates but resets itself immediately. Or the loose power line. Or who knows what... 

All I know that for sure is that I've been able to ride nearly 600km on the FW, at higher and lower speeds, at high load going up hills fast etc., with battery nearly empty, no shutdowns, ever. Each time the battery really goes empty, the wheel does the "controlled" shutdown, where it slows down, tilts the pedals just a little bit, starts shaking and repeats "Power is low".

[SerpentineGX]

Oh man, I hope you're okay. That was pretty nasty. There's nothing like not being in control. Sidewalks can be brutal sometimes, especially the uneven ones. The tire gets caught in the groove and goes one way and body is in the momentum of going another. 

Again, hope you feel better.

[dmethvin]

@Michael Vu @esaj Yeah that was the Google Tracks app on my phone that calls out the distance and speed every 5 minutes. I never heard the Firewheel say "Take care", did you hear it on the video? I think I was just going pretty fast and lost balance because of the drop-off in the sidewalk. This definitely wasn't a BMS cutout, notice that the wheel is still running after I fall off and I actually rode home after wiping off some mud and blood.

@John Eucist @SerpentineGX Just got a bunch of road rash but nothing broken or seriously messed up. Everything seems to be healing well so no complaints!

 

[esaj]

I never heard the Firewheel say "Take care", did you hear it on the video? I think I was just going pretty fast and lost balance because of the drop-off in the sidewalk. This definitely wasn't a BMS cutout, notice that the wheel is still running after I fall off and I actually rode home after wiping off some mud and blood.​

Yeah, I'm pretty sure your fall was just losing balance, not caused by BMS or overspeeding, my only fall with the Firewheel so far has been similar (going over large ground frost damages at too high speed and losing balance while braking).

Still, the shutdown at 28km/h is very, very stupid and sudden due to the fact that you really can't hear the final warnings if there's any noise or wind around you.  I would have faceplanted dozens of times by now just because I couldn't hear it, if my Firewheel would still shutdown at such speeds. Nowadays, I don't care that I can't hear them, I can feel from the motor vibration on the pedals when I'm at or near 29-30km/h, and that's pretty much the only warning I need.