Bosq Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Ok so I've picked up my 191 yesterday and it's amazing. However no manual, no instruction to be found anywhere on the Internet? So I come here in the hope someone can help out. All the lights flashing and warning bleeps mean, I guess, overheating as it happens after I've ridden up a steep hill at top speed. But do I have to worry about that? What's the cool down period? Road one foxes me though. What does a flashing power button mean? It's done of slow. It's done it fast. It doesn't mean power is out because that's still at 48%. Any one help? IS there a manual? Oh, and what pressure should the tyre be at. It looks a little spongy to me? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Hi! The beeps are a way of knowing how fast you are going. However, because you've just bought your wheel, it probably isn't 'unlocked' yet so the full power of the wheel has been electronically limited. You need to either do the 50km/100km distance to unlock the machine OR download the 'xima lhotz' app which will allow you to unlock it immediately. ONCE you have unlocked it, the beeps are as follows: quick beeps: you've hit 23km/h very quick beeps: you're between 23 - 27 constant long beep: you are above 28 and need to slow down. Regarding the power button: constant light = battery between 70-100% slow flashing light = battery 30-70 fast flashing light = under 30% Having said that, the power button lights ALSO respond to the strain you're putting the wheel under. So if you're fully charged, and you're going up a very steep hill, it might start flashing very quickly, but there's nothing wrong with your battery. Once you get back onto flat ground the flashing will stop. Tire pressure - depends on your skill level. Once you know what you're doing, I find the wheel works best at around 50psi. Don't drop lower than 35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosq Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Wow, thanks for the quick response. How did you find the info about the flashing power button out? Is there a secret manual? OK one more question, when I go up a steep hill, at the top of it I have got a long bleep and all the lights flash and then the unit seems to kinda shut down which I think presumably means overheating. Is that right? I'm wondering if this is going to be a problem, because although the engine clearly has the power to cope with pretty serious hills, on a run out I've just done it seemed to be overheating again on a long slow incline. Is that what's happening? If so I can imagine this is going to be a more serious problems once 30km is unlocked. . . ? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xima Lhotz Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Hello. I got a manual with my Xima so no secret one The standard wheel of the Xima has a pressure interval of 45 to 35 psi or 3.1 to 2.4 bar. Only use the recommended tire pressures for your tire though so check what the tire markings say. Power button. Red constant light: Battery power is very low and immediate charge is necessary. Red flashing light: Xima wheel is in danger, stop riding and turn the wheel off immediately. If the problem is not solved with fully charged battery the wheel needs repairs. As for beeping when going uphill, this can also be that you get low on battery. The battery level can read 50% but when put under big stress for long a long time ( eg long uphill climb) it actually "depletes" almost instantly. Look in you app, if you start at the bottom of a big hill with 50% battery that can drop quickly and the beeping is there for safety (constant beep) If you then wait for 10s the battery level recovers and you can ride just fine again. If you ride the wheel a lot you will know the feeling when you ride when the battery is at 100% or 30% without looking at the battery inication. You feel the battery % in the power of the wheel and the beeps. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosq Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 THanks Xima Lhotz. . Does that mean when I get the constant beep, and all lights flashing, its because it thinks the battery is fully depleted? Not an overheat? Thanks for the other info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 It might be overheating, or just as likely the battery dropping very low under load. It is a good idea to treat a new battery gently for the first 2 or 3 charge cycles, taking high currents and/or going to low voltage with a brand new battery isn't the best way to condition it to last. If your tire pressure is low then that would have increased the power needed significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xima Lhotz Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 Hello, no problem. I get the same thing so for me and its always the battery. If the wheel is 100% charged i can go up a long hill just fine, but if i come to the same hill after riding ex 10km i get the constant beep at the top of the same hill. So do you testing with a 100% charged battery in the same hill and then you will know for sure what the cause is. I have a route of 20km with a big bridge (long uphill and downhill climb) in the first 1/3 of the way. Its almost a perfect arc so the uphill and downhill climb is the same. Every time i go back over the same bridge (2/3) from home i always get the constant beep due to battery getting low under heavy load. So the battery is not fully depleted it just gets low under the heavy load. Sometimes i walk up that bridge just to get brakingrecharge on the way down to get all the way home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosq Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Thanks Keith: I think the wheels are a little spongy so that may well be the issue. I will treat the battery carefully from now for a bit. Should you discharge this battery fully before recharging? Thanks as well Xima, I will do that test and see what happens Guys, its very helpful. I was a bit worried if it had been overheating. . . ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xima Lhotz Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 No worries at all. Good luck with your wheel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Bosq said: Wow, thanks for the quick response. How did you find the info about the flashing power button out? Is there a secret manual? OK one more question, when I go up a steep hill, at the top of it I have got a long bleep and all the lights flash and then the unit seems to kinda shut down which I think presumably means overheating. Is that right? I'm wondering if this is going to be a problem, because although the engine clearly has the power to cope with pretty serious hills, on a run out I've just done it seemed to be overheating again on a long slow incline. Is that what's happening? If so I can imagine this is going to be a more serious problems once 30km is unlocked. . . ? Thanks! It depends on a number of factors: steepness of hill, your weight, how hard you're pushing it. you should find once you remove the limiter you can actually climb hills more easily. Quite often the constant beep thing is just a way of avoiding a shutoff/overheat. It's sometimes a little over-zealous. Although your tire SAYS 30-45psi, I'd go for 50. Handling is better and you'll get more range. Don't worry your tire won't explode or anything. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosq Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Ok I'll go for 50 and then do some research about how to repair punctures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 8 minutes ago, Bosq said: Ok I'll go for 50 and then do some research about how to repair punctures! Enjoy your LHOTZ! Im no tire expert (but I'm sure there are others who certainly are on the forum) but there's no real correlation between highly pumped up tire and increased risk of punctures. Quite the opposite I think actually, a lower pressured tire increases the risk of an inner tube pinch or likewise. Again, I'm no expert so if someone knows otherwise please correct me! Bottom line: keep your psi between 40-50 and you can't go wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosq Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Oh I'm sure that's true... I just was wondering about how I'd go about repairing the tyre if needed. It all looks pretty integrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 30, 2016 Share Posted April 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Bosq said: Should you discharge this battery fully before recharging? Absolutely not! Lithiums are more sensitive than the previous generation NiCad/NiMH cells were. Against which they have so much more energy per Kg that it has made devices such as EUC's viable. Nearly all of the good advice for NiCads can be harmful for Lithiums. It isn't worth getting too concerned and it certainly isn't too practical to to treat Lithiums VERY carefully but the ideal way to ensure they last as long as possible and give the most power when you do need it is to keep the battery between 40% and 80% as much as possible. So, if you are going on a long run, of course, charge it fully and discharge it as much as you need to, but don't unnecessarily drain the battery right the way down and, ideally don't fully charge it and leave it fully charged for long periods. See this post, a nearly new wheel, rider kept on riding even though the battery was reporting flat and trying to stop him, now he has one cell that has completely failed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosq Posted April 30, 2016 Author Share Posted April 30, 2016 Thanks Keith. I'd half heard this change of advice about new gen batteries but not really taken it in. Just turned my wheel charger off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosq Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 16 hours ago, Paddylaz said: Although your tire SAYS 30-45psi, I'd go for 50. Handling is better and you'll get more range. Don't worry your tire won't explode or anything. ? Hiya, thanks for the tip. I've tried upping the tyre pressure to 45 and felt like I was starting from scratch again! Wow. tricky? Possibly because of smaller area contacting the ground. I've decided to let pressure out to ease balance and not to de-moralise myself! I'll gradually increase the pressure as I get more in control. On another issue: I'm still not entirely sure what to do when I get the solid beep and the flashing of all lights. I know now that it means depleted battery (not over-heathing, thankfully) , but I've discovered this can happen after heavy load when the battery is around 20-30%.The output of the cells dips and triggers the alert I guess But given that there is still a over 10% of battery power left, is it OK for me to continue running after this alert? I don't want to trash the cells. Is it at that point that I need to be carrying it home? (embarrasing). What battery level should you REALLY stop riding, and what happens (warnings/lights/shutdown) when the wheel finally runs out of juice? THanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 41 minutes ago, Bosq said: But given that there is still a over 10% of battery power left, is it OK for me to continue running after this alert? I don't want to trash the cells. Is it at that point that I need to be carrying it home? (embarrasing). What battery level should you REALLY stop riding, and what happens (warnings/lights/shutdown) when the wheel finally runs out of juice? Batteries have internal resistance, This is a higher value the lower the Watt hour rating of the pack ( because there are less or no cells in parallel) also the older and lower quality the cells the higher it is. This means that the more current you draw from the pack the lower the voltage of the pack appears to be. This is why you will get warnings under power even if, at rest, the pack has significant capacity left. I've noticed that packs heat up more at low voltage so it looks like internal resistance also increases as pack voltage gets lower, making things even worst. Additionally the voltage is dropping from (for 16 cells) 67 Volts fully charged to possibly 45V or even lower under load when the battery is low. Since Power = Volts X Amps, then the max power, and ability to hold you upright also gets lower. Ideally, it is a good idea to not drain the battery down as low as 10% if you can help it, at the very least it will age the pack quicker. If the pack is alarming at the very least ride slower and walk up hills (at least downhill will put some charge back.) Not all cells in a battery pack are born equal and small packs of cheap cells will be even less equal. Continuing to ride with the wheel alarming may well result in one or more cells being much lower voltage than the rest and becoming permanently damaged. As to what happens at low voltage it depends on the wheel control board and BMS. A well designed wheel tilts further and further back until the wheel becomes unridable. If the BMS manages low voltage control it will simply shut off power throwing you off of the wheel. I would expect IPS to handle this safely. @Jason McNeil, demonstrates the KingSong 14C tilting back at low voltage correctly here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 3 hours ago, Bosq said: Hiya, thanks for the tip. I've tried upping the tyre pressure to 45 and felt like I was starting from scratch again! Wow. tricky? Possibly because of smaller area contacting the ground. I've decided to let pressure out to ease balance and not to de-moralise myself! I'll gradually increase the pressure as I get more in control. On another issue: I'm still not entirely sure what to do when I get the solid beep and the flashing of all lights. I know now that it means depleted battery (not over-heathing, thankfully) , but I've discovered this can happen after heavy load when the battery is around 20-30%.The output of the cells dips and triggers the alert I guess But given that there is still a over 10% of battery power left, is it OK for me to continue running after this alert? I don't want to trash the cells. Is it at that point that I need to be carrying it home? (embarrasing). What battery level should you REALLY stop riding, and what happens (warnings/lights/shutdown) when the wheel finally runs out of juice? THanks! Have you unlocked it yet? I unlocked my LHOTZ straight away so to be honest I'm not qualified to comment on the lights/battery/performance situation before that is done. Yeah the tire pressure does make it seem like a new wheel if you've had it very low, but very soon you'll read a skill level where you can handle it at 45/50. And once you're used to a hard, you'll never look back ('that's what she said...' Etc etc). whenever I've got that sudden constant beep and all the lights flash, I just turn the wheel on and off again and it's fine. I've never taken my wheel below 10% battery, but to add to what Keith was saying above, the battery indicator is not always reliable as it depends on all those factors. I've seen my battery indicator drop to as low as 6%, but then by the time I've got the wheel home and turned it on after half a hour it's suddenly gone back up to 26. The great thing about the LHOTZ (well, mine anyway, unless ips have changed something) is that even at extremely low battery you can still hit late 20s kph. On other wheels performance takes a massive hit even when you still have say, 35% battery left. It's just hills you need to be careful of in that state. Your weight is also a hugely important factor too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosq Posted May 1, 2016 Author Share Posted May 1, 2016 Unlocked it? I can barely mount it... I'd be worried about what is do with the temptation of 30 on day 2!That said , I did try to unlock it with my mum's Apple ipad (I'm wholly Android) but even after upgrading os etc, couldn't connect. Figured the xima lhotz app doesn't work on ipad? Yeah ok so I don't need to be too worried about messing around on the low teens going to do ultimate damage to my batteries. Thanks for that reassurance. It's like a new baby that I don't want to do the wrong thing with! (is already got a few scratches...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosq Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 17 hours ago, Keith said: If the pack is alarming at the very least ride slower and walk up hills Hi Keith: Thanks, that's really what I wanted to know. For some reason I got the bare minimum of manual with the IPS out of the box, so I knew nothing of usage and indicators. I think I'm just about across most of the important features and usage factors to look after me and the wheel. All I have to do now is deal with the weird motion sickness I get after a long day of riding! Feels like I've been ona boat! Does that pass?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosq Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 On 01/05/2016 at 11:30 AM, Keith said: at least downhill will put some charge ba So downhill allows the motor to act as a dynamo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgen Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 On Monday, May 02, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Bosq said: So downhill allows the motor to act as a dynamo? yep, don't do this with a fully charged wheel, you'll overload the batts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosq Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 Having a great time, falling off less, (although once quite dramatically when I mounted up having forgotten to switch her on! No one saw, thank god) Now I've discovered fancy snake hips turns like skiing and I've even talking it down sheep tracks across Meadows. Seems there's two modes of riding, fast flat surfaces require straight legs. Slow off road and potholes require bent knees to respond to wobbles. I've learned not to duck to avoid leaves and branches but rather to bend ze knees I'm up to the 30km limit now thanks to a borrowed iPhone which is great but on quiet open roads the beeps that come so soon are over the top. Has anyone managed to mod the beeps to make them less annoying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xima Lhotz Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Bosq said: Has anyone managed to mod the beeps to make them less annoying? I used Tack-it http://www.faber-castell.in/35252/Products/PlayingLearning/Tack-It/default_news.aspx I still wanted the beeps but just not so loud. Cover the speaker with it and you still have sound but muted. More tack-it = less sound so you can tune it somewhat. If you want to remove the beeps just unplug the speaker. Sorry to say you can't use a personal setting for it, it's a take it or leave it situation. I miss that function for the wheel along with a setting for tilt back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Xima Lhotz said: I used Tack-it http://www.faber-castell.in/35252/Products/PlayingLearning/Tack-It/default_news.aspx I still wanted the beeps but just not so loud. Cover the speaker with it and you still have sound but muted. More tack-it = less sound so you can tune it somewhat. If you want to remove the beeps just unplug the speaker. Sorry to say you can't use a personal setting for it, it's a take it or leave it situation. I miss that function for the wheel along with a setting for tilt back. Does that not affect ventilation/heat dissipation or anything? Or are those grill slits just for the sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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