168V 4400WH Master Pro

[thendless]

[YCC]

It is 5500w motor. The name is not super master pro. 

[anutheroneup]

Any theories on why they would lower the Battery Capacity from 4800wh down to 4400wh on the Plus version of the V3?  They raised the voltage to 168V, increased the motor to 5500W, and looks like this Plus V3 comes with a better stock charger than the 134V/3A charger that came with the V3, but then took away some battery and lowered the range.  

Full disclosure, I got the V3 and LOVE it.. but one of the biggest selling points for me was the largest battery capacity of 4800wh for range.  Also, I don't ride much over 40mph (or 65kph) and didn't feel the need for the 168V for higher speeds, but that's just me.  Why do you think they lowered the battery capacity?  Is it just for lower weight and higher speed?

Edited August 15 by anutheroneup
missed a letter in a word

[YCC]

35 minutes ago, anutheroneup said:

Any theories on why they would lower the Battery Capacity from 4800wh down to 4400wh on the Plus version of the V3?  They raised the voltage to 168V, increased the motor to 5500W, and looks like this Plus V3 comes with a better stock charger than the 134V/3A charger that came with the V3, but then took away some battery and lowered the range.  

Full disclosure, I got the V3 and LOVE it.. but one of the biggest selling points for me was the largest battery capacity of 4800wh for range.  Also, I don't ride much over 40mph (or 65kph) and didn't feel the need for the 168V for higher speeds, but that's just me.  Why do you think they lowered the battery capacity?  Is it just for lower weight and higher speed?

They concerned the selling price of the wheel since they have to choose 4440wh or 5920wh. The bigger battery the higher price. 

[alcatraz]

@FunkyOur DREAM WHEEL,  buddy. Congratulations!

[alcatraz]

This wheel proves that availability and price of battery cells trumps any other aspect. They went with 50S just because that's all they care to stock.

I'm surprised they haven't gone with one of the newer high capacity cells for a wheel like this. Cells like 5800/6000mAh.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, anutheroneup said:

Any theories on why they would lower the Battery Capacity from 4800wh down to 4400wh on the Plus version of the V3?

168V (= 40 cells in series) battery sizes automatically come in multiples of 740Wh (= capacity of 40 cells). You can't freely choose battery size independently of the voltage.

Edited August 15 by meepmeepmayer

[Asphalt]

The smaller battery pack is offset by the fact that you can fast-charge a 6P Samsung 50S pack at very high rates.

The 50S has a rated charge of 6A and standard charge of 2.5A.
A 6P pack has a rated charge of 36A and standard charge of 15A.

I don't know what the charge board is capped at, but 36A at 168V would take ~45-minutes to push 4400Wh.

[InMoOnGoWa75012]

Same as old EX.n (all disabled on mine )

[Greg X]

smaller battery = lower price and lower weight. Reasonable for me. Over 60kg would be too much.
They should make at least some small visual upgrade, this "new" M.Pro looks like twin brother of old M.Pro v3. 

[Whalesmash]

It's 4400WH so that it can fit into the existing pack casings without any need of modification. It's really just reusing the battery packs out of the 4400wh extreme bull gt-pro-plus-mega-large-potato-xl whatever it was called. Any weight savings, potential price savings, or anything else is really just a side note to reusing existing parts. 

[thendless]

14 minutes ago, Whalesmash said:

It's 4400WH so that it can fit into the existing pack casings without any need of modification. It's really just reusing the battery packs out of the 4400wh extreme bull gt-pro-plus-mega-large-potato-xl whatever it was called. Any weight savings, potential price savings, or anything else is really just a side note to reusing existing parts. 

Yes I agree that it appears to be the same Master Pro battery boxes. I also believe it is using the same chassis. The net weight compared with master pro with metal battery boxes appears to be a couple of pounds less which is probably from having 16 less cells. Few other things that suggest it will be using same chassis is no smart BMS, appears to have the centre tube trolley, 80mm suspension travel and is 36 mosfet. This is exciting for me because it suggests that this board will be the same size as the existing 134 36 mosfet boards which will open up some modding opportunities for us tinkerers.

Edited August 15 by thendless

[Tep]

I've said this all over so I'll said this here too.

 

This is not an official version, I would say it's a custom order wheel from a vendor or so. Begode do this all the time where they would make custom spec wheels based on existing models for people who are willing to pay for a batch. The reason I said it's not official is because there are no significant changes aside from voltage. Motor watt rating went from 5000w to 5500w because of voltage increase, it should be the same motor as Master Pro V3 (c40).

 

17 hours ago, anutheroneup said:

Any theories on why they would lower the Battery Capacity from 4800wh down to 4400wh on the Plus version of the V3?  They raised the voltage to 168V, increased the motor to 5500W, and looks like this Plus V3 comes with a better stock charger than the 134V/3A charger that came with the V3, but then took away some battery and lowered the range.  

Full disclosure, I got the V3 and LOVE it.. but one of the biggest selling points for me was the largest battery capacity of 4800wh for range.  Also, I don't ride much over 40mph (or 65kph) and didn't feel the need for the 168V for higher speeds, but that's just me.  Why do you think they lowered the battery capacity?  Is it just for lower weight and higher speed?

They are essentially taking the GT Pro/ET Max board, GT Pro + battery (40s6p), and slap it into Master Pro chassis. Master Pro have 256 cells, this new version only have 240 cells, so it's an easy modification for them. 

So, you get more voltage, which means more torque and easier access to high speed, which is good, but there won't be notable improvements in possible top speed. I'm already hitting 60 mph on my V3 without field weakening with no beeps, can't see if 168V will let me go faster than this (not that I want to)

Range should be the same also, 6p 168v vs 8p 134v.

[Suzuha]

On 8/15/2024 at 1:44 PM, Tep said:

I've said this all over so I'll said this here too.

 

This is not an official version, I would say it's a custom order wheel from a vendor or so. Begode do this all the time where they would make custom spec wheels based on existing models for people who are willing to pay for a batch. The reason I said it's not official is because there are no significant changes aside from voltage. Motor watt rating went from 5000w to 5500w because of voltage increase, it should be the same motor as Master Pro V3 (c40).

 

They are essentially taking the GT Pro/ET Max board, GT Pro + battery (40s6p), and slap it into Master Pro chassis. Master Pro have 256 cells, this new version only have 240 cells, so it's an easy modification for them. 

So, you get more voltage, which means more torque and easier access to high speed, which is good, but there won't be notable improvements in possible top speed. I'm already hitting 60 mph on my V3 without field weakening with no beeps, can't see if 168V will let me go faster than this (not that I want to)

Range should be the same also, 6p 168v vs 8p 134v.

I thought I saw C40 tile listed which would be a first

[Tep]

I'm pretty sure the tile part is misreported, official spec sheet stated 5500W C40, no tile. Begode sales rep also didn't advertise tile motor with this wheel. 

If it's tile type, you would be seeing it on the spec sheet like this.

 

Edited August 19 by Tep

[Suzuha]

16 hours ago, Tep said:

I'm pretty sure the tile part is misreported, official spec sheet stated 5500W C40, no tile. Begode sales rep also didn't advertise tile motor with this wheel. 

If it's tile type, you would be seeing it on the spec sheet like this.

 

Good eye. Could be some very malicious advertising from Nextgen 🫣

[mhpr262]

Holy shit, 55 kilograms. No thanks. The 48kg of my EX20 are the absolute maximum of what I am willing to put up with on a tour where I have to lift the wheel in and out of trains. Only a tiny, tiny minority of riders will be interested in wheels that weigh in excess of 50 kilograms.

[Scubadragonsan]

A I have a Sherman S, a 100-lb. wheel. Let me tell you it's heavy lugging it up and down the stairs. After doing that several times, it's enough. So I got some wheelchair ramps to help with rolling up and down the stairs, instead of lugging it. I got it for its range and speed. If I were to have my next wheel, I most likely would not get a wheel more than 60 lbs. 

[anutheroneup]

4 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

a tiny, tiny minority of riders will be interested in wheels that weigh in excess of 50 kilograms.

You may be correct.. I have the regular Master Pro V3 which weighs even more than this 'Plus' version, but I don't have any trains I need to get on/off or stairs I need to go up/down.  I just ride out of the back door of my home and go for super long distances until I end up back home again, without ever having to pick up or carry my wheel.  Everyone has different needs and desires for what they want or need from an EUC.  For me the regular V3 is the best thing ever and if I were to want anything from a 'Plus' version, it would be waterproofing and a Smart BMS.. but once I'm riding I forget that the wheel is heavy because I feel nimble and light as a feather.

[Stickysock]

Now I'm torn between this and a Sherman L. 

What's the expectation for top speed on the 168v?

 

My daily commute involves speeds up to 50mph so I need something that can do 55mph all day comfortably. 

[Suzuha]

 

54 minutes ago, Stickysock said:

Now I'm torn between this and a Sherman L. 

What's the expectation for top speed on the 168v?

 

My daily commute involves speeds up to 50mph so I need something that can do 55mph all day comfortably. 

This wheel would do that....The ET Max has been tested up to 72 mph (seated) and 66 standing at full battery, 55 at 8% battery (while sagging) all GPS speeds. You can nearly kill it in 20 miles at those speeds though. With a 22 inch tire I would guess 76 seated and maybe 69 standing.....57 at low battery. Very much depends on the motor and whether it is tile or not though, and how well they build the firmware with field weakening etc.  

[onewheelkoregro]

On 8/22/2024 at 5:50 PM, Stickysock said:

Now I'm torn between this and a Sherman L. 

What's the expectation for top speed on the 168v?

 

My daily commute involves speeds up to 50mph so I need something that can do 55mph all day comfortably. 

if you need to go 55 sustained why did you get a patton?

[Stickysock]

5 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

if you need to go 55 sustained why did you get a patton?

The Patton was my first wheel.

Edited September 11 by Stickysock

[onewheelkoregro]

13 hours ago, Stickysock said:

The Patton was my first wheel.

Nice I started on a kingsong 16x, but now I ride a commander pro 50e. There is a guy I know in telegram chats that goes for 100 mile plus rides at 50+ mph on his rides but he has a modified Cpro 50s with modified charge board/port. But many of the newer wheels can hit the speeds you need.

[Stickysock]

2 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

Nice I started on a kingsong 16x, but now I ride a commander pro 50e. There is a guy I know in telegram chats that goes for 100 mile plus rides at 50+ mph on his rides but he has a modified Cpro 50s with modified charge board/port. But many of the newer wheels can hit the speeds you need.

Oh yeah, I've been stacking miles on my Patton making sure I'm skilled enough for these faster wheels. 6k miles later, all I'm waiting for is my bonus to hit, then I'll be a kid in a candy shop.

 

I'm pretty much set on the Sherman L at this point. I think it strikes a good balance of range and agility