Is the Begode Master way too much for a 1st timer?

[vashdash]

Hey guys,

Never rode or owned an EUC before, just been enamored by all the videos on youtube of people riding them around. So, I figure maybe I can get in on the action, but don't want to spend too much money or destroy a new wheel. Local craigslist has someone selling their Begode Master for around $1500.

On spec this is way too much wheel for a beginner, but does offer the ability for me to use it for 20+ mile commutes and keeping up with traffic once I get proficient.

Just wondering what the consensus of this idea is. Feel free to flame me or tell me that it's a horrible idea. If this doesn't pan out I'm willing to wait a couple more years when the used market get more flooded. 

 

-Ride safe and keep the shiny side up.

[Mango]

Begode Master would make the perfect third wheel, right after learning on a non-suspension 16" wheel and then a 18" intermediate wheel. Master has high pedals, top-heavy, and high maintenance suspension which aren't good for beginners. Master is an advanced wheel that has earned podium status in many races.

You could get it as your first wheel, but then you also like pain and suffering.

[Funky]

First and mostly have you tried carrying anything over 30kg? (Sure if you don't have a staircase or any need of lifting the wheel EVER.. Then weight can be ignored, otherwise THINK twice about the weight!)

I can say if i didn't need to carry my wheel ever i would have bought Sherman Max as my first wheel and also skipped learner. But good thing i don't need the range and speed. So my first wheel is also the learner and forever one.  (KS18XL) I don't need any bigger/faster wheel.

Secondly - Yes it will be harder to learn, because of weight. You will need to control the wheel with one leg while mounting/dismounting, but it's doable. Only downside is the learning stage MAY take 2 times longer, than if you where leaning on smaller wheel. Example 2 weeks instead of 1 week. (It also matters how skilled rider or how fast you learn new skills. Some rider can already ride in first hour. For some it may take days.)

Also learning and taking suspension wheel as first is kind of bad idea. Because you will be relaying on the suspension to shave your ass. Versus if you had non-suspension wheel as first one. Where you have learned the skill of watching all road imperfections and such. On suspension wheel it's more forgiving in that aspect. Because on non-suspension one you would have already crashed/faceplanted.

 

I would highly recommend padding your "new" wheel in shower mat or carton boxes and duct taping it all around the wheel. Yes it will look dumb as F, but at least you won't damage/scrape the wheel that much while learning. My wheel looked like big white plastic bag for the first week..  As i simply took shower mat and spun around it and duct taped around it.

Edited March 9 by Funky

[meepmeepmayer]

Trust your gut on this.

Plenty of people have learned on Masters and heavier wheels and were very happy.

But maybe if your initial thought already is that the Master might be too cumbersome for you and a lighter wheel might be more pleasant, that is a sign that you may want to start on a lighter wheel?

It's also a question of money - buying one's "forever wheel" right away is cheaper than starting on something else first and then upgrading. And if you have a good offer on a used Master, that is an opportunity you might not want to miss. You won't get better bang for the buck than a Master for 1500, as long as the wheel itself is good - see here on what to look out for (2nd part of the post).

My gut feeling is that it sounds you should get that Master (as long as the wheel is ok).

[Cerbera]

The Master is a wonderful machine if you are prepared to put the effort into riding and maintaining it. But riding one of those is so utterly different from riding a smaller wheel you might as well learn on it initially, though the learning curve will be steeper.

Initially it will feel more scary than other wheels to ride because you are so high up on it, and it seems a very long way to fall from. Being so high you are very much more vulnerable to wind pressure, and the top-heaviness of that machine, combined with the inherent 'tippy' quality of the default CST tyre makes it feel quite sketchy initially, even in relatively minor winds, so you'd need to be ready to adapt to that (ATGATT etc) ! BUt don't let that put you off - once you are confident you may well come to love the height - I certainly enjoy the extended view and being taller than nearly everything around me whether riding on roads, cycle paths pavements or for off-road, where pedal clearance has never been bettered since ! Pedals are so high that you can sometimes get away with falling off even a relatively high curb without wrecking like nearly every other model might...

It can also be hard to accelerate and brake quickly until you have your (3rd party) pads set up perfectly, and the right techniques (the pads it comes with are fairly hopeless in that regard). Its height makes it challenging to free-mount as well. And it is VERY heavy - you won't want to be carrying it anywhere, except maybe from the house to the car and back ! Talking of which, you NEED the Grizzla ( or other 3rd party) handles / bumpers, for protection of the batteries in a forward fall, but mainly because the very first time you or anyone tries to pick it up using the trolley handle, that will fall off !

There can be quite a lot of maintenance on Masters as well, although the design of the machine does make it mostly (relatively) easy to service and do tyre changes etc. In fact it is amongst the easiest of EUCS to fully disassemble.

The earlier the version of Master, the more problems it is likely to have ! Versions 1-4 exist, and V1 should be outright avoided because of a) the battery configuration and b) scarcity of parts.

V2 and 3's (like mine) are pretty decent, but still have plastic battery boxes and mountings, and all versions require that you do some minor additional work to make them more fully waterproof. (tape the battery pack seams and screw holes, silicon seal the hubs, marine grease the bearing covers, Block the holes in the underside of the motherboard, use rainproof cover in wet weather).

V4's have metal battery boxes and mountings which, whilst more robust, are perhaps not necessary if you are doing mainly road riding. People say they are not up to being a structural part of the machine, but they very much are, in the directions that count ! My battery pack mountings are the plastic ones, and haven't cracked in a year and half, mainly because I don't jump mine or do mad off-road stuff with it, and because Grizzla pads contain reinforcing blocks that do seem to circumvent or help that particular problem.

Another problem Masters are well known for is bearing issues, which tend to happen once you get caught out in the rain a couple of times if you haven't greased things up enough to keep water from getting in.

A lot of people hate the suspension on the Master. We all know by now its geometry and shock are not ideal, but for most learning purposes, and road and cycle path riding, it is mostly fine unless you get one that leaks, and alas there's quite a lot of those about as well !

But, if you got a workshop full of the tools you need to maintain it, don't mind tinkering and doing a little work yourself as and when it needs, and can cope with a) the height and b) the wind, then it can be a HUGELY smooth and rewarding machine to ride. You are unlikely to ever need more power than it can dispense, and even if you don't get on with it initially, if you persevere, you will probably come to love it with time.

 

Edited March 9 by Cerbera

[Funky]

2 hours ago, Voyager said:

Suspension can smooth most irregularities out, but that might be asking too much...

Yours sincerely, the typo police  

I meant at speed it can save one's ass. Where non-suspension rider already know how to bend knees and whatnot.

Rider without suspension would already have learned to scan ground surfaces. Bend more knees at curbs or any pothole. Where suspension wheel would simply give more smoother ride, if he before had non-suspension wheel.

 

Non-Suspension first wheel = better rider.

Suspension first wheel = worse rider.

(We can talk about how bad, etc.. But you get my idea in general.. Even 5% difference - it's a difference of chance of having faceplant by 5% or less.)

Sure he can learn all the skills the non-suspension rider can. But non-suspension wheel are less "forgiving" at mistakes - like missed pothole, curb, etc..

 

Anyways it's up to rider - what wheels he gonna use, etc. We can only add what we think, etc.. If he wants Master - he can go and buy it.

 

Edited March 9 by Funky

[Punxatawneyjoe]

IMO, if you are planning on a "commute" with the wheel. You are better off learning on a big wheel capable of keeping up with traffic. I feel like it's "safer" than being passed 1000 times during your commute. As long as you aren't planning on bringing it with you on the bus/train for part of that commute or live in a 4 story apartment with no elevator. A few people have learned on a larger wheel to start with and have had no trouble acclimating to it quickly. Another point is if you plan on riding the streets you don't want to feel like you are riding a "toy". I also think you should do your research on the master so you can correctly identify common problems before you buy it as well as being prepared to work on it yourself. In addition Begode wheels have no water resistance ratings as Cerbera pointed out so as a commuter, that's something that has to be considered also. If you live in the desert it's probably not an issue but if it rains a lot where you are then maybe consider another wheel.

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Non-Suspension first wheel = better rider.

Suspension first wheel = worse rider.

Not sure I can agree with that.

When you have suspension you still have to do advance terrain scanning, but you simply don't have to be as careful about it as on non-susp. wheels, and if you ARE as careful about it, you are actually wasting attention that is better deployed elsewhere (far distance scanning / traffic path prediction etc) ! There is a reasonable argument that you are safer with your eyes NOT constantly glued to the ground immediately in front of you...

Non-Suspension first wheel = better rider of non-suspension wheels.

Suspension first wheel = better rider of suspension wheels.

We could also argue that susp. wheels are easier to learn on because you are less likely to be disrupted, or jogged off the pedals by terrain stuff you don't notice.

Edited March 9 by Cerbera

[Punxatawneyjoe]

14 minutes ago, Funky said:

Non-Suspension first wheel = better rider.

Suspension first wheel = worse rider.

This "narrative" just isn't true. Everyone who rides on one wheel is looking ahead for pothole etc. I learned on a suspension wheel and although they are slightly more forgiving, they don't fly over potholes so no matter how good your suspension is you are always looking at the ground ahead of you and if you aren't riding a toy at 12mph then you are looking ever more intently at 40mph because hitting something at that speed, suspension or not can make for a bad day.

[Funky]

26 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I learned on a suspension wheel and although they are slightly more forgiving

I did a edit afterwards... You yourself just said the same thing. I agree it's not day & night difference, but still one.

As for looking forwards well DUHH... Everyone is/should be doing that - it's a no brainer. So i didn't even bother talking about that. Even riding on bicycle or in car everyone does that. Suspension or not, it doesn't change the fact you are riding.

38 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

but you simply don't have to be as careful about it as on non-susp.

Same reply.

 

[Funky]

59 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

There is a reasonable argument that you are safer with your eyes NOT constantly glued to the ground immediately in front of you...

True. And when i cross road or any pathways where multiple roads connect - i check every single way. But i do that after i have checked where i'm going. Is there any big hole, etc on ground. Only then i start looking forwards, back, left, right. Same time i have slowed down to running speeds. As i often slow down at those type of passes. 

Every rider's roads/paths they ride are different. I for one don't have any cars on those roads almost as i ride backroads of private houses. You see maybe 1-2 cars over long time period. As for daily commutes i got long straight sidewalks by lake side. And only one regular road crossing where i need to check left/right only. I still slow down to see if car gonna let me pass and only then i speed up going over the crossing. (I don't stop almost ever at that crossing, i simply slow down to walking speed or if i see no cars full speed over it.)

Again every riders surroundings, and their ridding habits are different. I personally would not dare to ride in big busy city with cars left/right/front/back all the time.. Only on sidewalks.

Edited March 9 by Funky

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Again, every riders' surroundings, and their riding habits are different. I personally would not dare to ride in big busy city with cars left/right/front/back all the time.. Only on sidewalks.

Yeah I'm a bit like that, even though I have the speed, power and confidence to ride with traffic. There are certain stretches of (mostly quieter) road on my regular ride where I am safer on that than on the (particularly narrow and uneven) pavement, but I am happier on, and feel safer on cycle paths for the obvious reasons. Although at least there are no damn dogs off leads on the road !

Fortunately, the relative scariness of riding something like a Master as your first go at the hobby is likely to ensure you work up to these things in a slow and gradual type way, only gaining sufficient confidence to ride in traffic when your muscles have had a suitably decent time to strengthen, you've had time to gain full trust in the machine, and you are more fully used to the eccentricities and ride characteristics...

Edited March 9 by Cerbera

[xiiijojjo]

For a first wheel I recommend something that you can carry with one arm, it should also have a trolley handle. This will make it a good jack of all trades, and it can be used for most errands. 
I also think most new riders should probably get something less powerful and expensive for banging up when learning to ride. This will also limit how fast you can go for your first few hundreds or thousands of kilometers, that way you'll have the experience necessary to safely go the speeds that wheels such as the monster is capable of going.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, xiiijojjo said:

I also think most new riders should probably get something less powerful and expensive for banging up when learning to ride. This will also limit how fast you can go for your first few hundreds or thousands of kilometers, that way you'll have the experience necessary to safely go the speeds that wheels such as the monster is capable of going.

Put alarm at 30km/h and be happy beginner.  Beginner should not even think of ridding max speed of master in first year.. Or at least have 1000km ridden under the belt, before doing so.

[Panzer04]

17 hours ago, vashdash said:

Hey guys,

Never rode or owned an EUC before, just been enamored by all the videos on youtube of people riding them around. So, I figure maybe I can get in on the action, but don't want to spend too much money or destroy a new wheel. Local craigslist has someone selling their Begode Master for around $1500.

On spec this is way too much wheel for a beginner, but does offer the ability for me to use it for 20+ mile commutes and keeping up with traffic once I get proficient.

Just wondering what the consensus of this idea is. Feel free to flame me or tell me that it's a horrible idea. If this doesn't pan out I'm willing to wait a couple more years when the used market get more flooded. 

 

-Ride safe and keep the shiny side up.

You can learn on any wheel - this being said, learning on a master will be a bit painful and annoying, based on my learning experience with a smaller and lower EUC. Just be prepared to drop it a lot, which is a bit more of an event with a bigger wheel like a master.

That first 1-2hrs on it will really suck, but once you get to the point of freeriding it the master won't be too much different to any other wheel.

For this specific master you're looking at, it depends on the version. V3 masters were selling brand new for 1800usd not long ago...

[vashdash]

Wow, holy snap. This is a lot to digest.

I guess I would like to thank everyone for their detailed and comprehensive input.

@Mango@Funky@meepmeepmayer@Voyager@Cerbera@Punxatawneyjoe@xiiijojjo@Panzer04

Thank you all so much for all the info yinz given.

To answer or maybe justify a few of my reasons for even considering the Begode Master in the first place. I've been riding on/off a regular unicycle for a few years now, so I felt pretty confident that I could persevere through the learning curve of an EUC. I also commute on a motorcycle so, I have most of the needed ATGATT stuff. I have my own garage stocked full of tools and fabrication equipment so, I'm very confident in my ability to fix, maintain, and fabricate any parts I would need for any EUC. Including building new battery modules (as long as I can source the 50E cells) and service any surface mount ICs (MOSFETS, etc) that may blow up.

I know I can lift the weight of the Master in/out of my car and I don't have any stairs I would need to contend with... I live in the suburbs.

I'll admit, I've never given thought to suspension vs no suspension when it comes to how it would affect my learning experience. Also, never thought about after market pads/handle/bumpers. I see them a lot in a bunch of videos and I guess if you want the EUC to hug you and be responsive then it's an absolute must. And I didn't know the Master had multiple versions and that v1 is basically shite. 

Having somewhat justified why I thought I could start off on a Master, what everyone has basically hinted at is correct. There is no substitute for experience, the fact is: I have never ridden an EUC before, I don't even have experience on hoverboards. And this is the reason I'm a little hesitant on getting a Master and just going for it.

TLDR: I guess I'll have to do some more soul-searching to see if I truly believe I can grow into a Master or if I'm just an over-confident squid that thinks he can start out on a Hayabusa because "I'll just out grow the CBR250 in 3 month". 

Edited March 10 by vashdash
Typo: wrote 50T when it should be 50E for battery cells

[VR Heathen]

14 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Trust your gut on this.

Plenty of people have learned on Masters and heavier wheels and were very happy.

But maybe if your initial thought already is that the Master might be too cumbersome for you and a lighter wheel might be more pleasant, that is a sign that you may want to start on a lighter wheel?

It's also a question of money - buying one's "forever wheel" right away is cheaper than starting on something else first and then upgrading. And if you have a good offer on a used Master, that is an opportunity you might not want to miss. You won't get better bang for the buck than a Master for 1500, as long as the wheel itself is good - see here on what to look out for (2nd part of the post).

My gut feeling is that it sounds you should get that Master (as long as the wheel is ok).

I am in the same boat.  I am looking at getting my first EUC.  Where I live there isn't much of a used market so I have been hammering the research.  I found a reseller who has a new begode master v3 that they are selling for $1900 which sounded like it would be a deal.  So many folks have thrown suggestions out at which one to get, many telling me to learn on the EX30, which I found on sale for $2700.    I don't need crazy range, but I do live in areas with hills and only plan to ride on streets or paved bike trails for enjoyment.  Maybe take it with me in my vehicle when traveling.  Is a new V3 Master for 1900 a good deal and good decision for a first wheel?

[Funky]

11 hours ago, vashdash said:

I've been riding on/off a regular unicycle for a few years now.

Get Master. You will like it.

 

I personally had most problems free mounting the wheel. Riding gave me ZERO problems. In first ride after 20 mins i was going left/right and going the "8" and circles on spot.

Mounting took me 4 days, each day about 20 mins trying to mount the dam thing.. (I wasn't leaning forwards enough, so wheel stayed in place and after 2-3 seconds i lost balance and stepped off.) Also i didn't even try to ride before. As i thought i need to learn mounting/dismounting first and only after that i need to learn to ride. Because you need to stop and start, before riding.  If i was leaning more forwards - i could have been riding in very first day..

You need to literally start falling on your face, as soon as you have placed both feet on pedals. Or later you can push of like a skateboard on legged and place second feet on pedal as you are ridding forwards already. < I do that nowadays. 

 

Riding EUC isn't hard at all!

If you have ridden regular unicycle - Pff EUC is easy mode. You need to worry about left/right balance only. Forwards/backwards EUC does all the work.

Edited March 10 by Funky

[noonewantstobepeterchris]

I learned on a Master, and it’s what I almost always suggest as a first wheel. Some people will say that you should learn on a smaller wheel. I completely disagree. The Master is not a big wheel. It’s just that the Master is bigger than the wheels a lot of people had at the time that they learned. You have to remember, it was only a couple years ago that a suspension wheel even existed. A lot of the people who have been riding for a long time learned on what was available. However, there are a lot of good, competent riders that started in the last couple years that only rode larger suspension wheel. After about 20 hours of riding, you will be looking to upgrade if you went with a small suspension-less wheel like a KS 14D or something.
 

I suggest the street tire, although either will work. The stock off road tire is better for going straight at low speed, and the street tire is better for turning and carving.If you have the choice, go with the V4 or higher because the metal battery boxes add chassis stiffness which, means predictability.

Some of the older “how to” videos you will find are tailored to smaller diameter suspension-less wheels of their time. They will be more difficult for you learn on a larger wheel . Try looking for something a little more recent.

[Hellkitten]

@vashdash Knowing how to ride an analog unicycle will go a long way in helping you ride an electric version. With your background I think you could master a master…………

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Hellkitten said:

Knowing how to ride an analog unicycle will go a long way in helping you ride an electric version.

I'll be really interested to hear what @vashdash reports about this if he does go a head and get the master. My intuition is rather the opposite - I think the 2 sets of skills are largely unrelated and with actually very few areas of overlap. The riding posture, balance priorities, mounting, braking, turning are all done differently on a manual unicycle. Perhaps it might help with that initial balancing whilst stationary, if that is how he chooses to free-mount, rather than the 'running push-up' (as most often exemplified by Dawn), where you do a couple of kick-offs before you dock the remaining foot when the wheel has started moving and angular momentum is already mostly doing its thing to keep you upright...

Having had only the very briefest exposure to manual UCs I am hardly qualified to venture an opinion, but will be interesting to see who is right !

Edited March 10 by Cerbera

[xiiijojjo]

2 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I'll be really interested to hear what @vashdash reports about this if he does go a head and get the master. My intuition is rather the opposite - I think the 2 sets of skills are largely unrelated and with actually very few areas of overlap. The riding posture, balance priorities, mounting, braking, turning are all done differently on a manual unicycle. Perhaps it might help with that initial balancing whilst stationary, if that is how he chooses to free-mount, rather than the 'running push-up' (as most often exemplified by Dawn), where you do a couple of kick-offs before you dock the remaining foot when the wheel has started moving and angular momentum is already mostly doing its thing to keep you upright...

Having had only the very briefest exposure to manual UCs I am hardly qualified to venture an opinion, but will be interesting to see who is right !

I met a guy on a unicycle once, he learned the basics in 2 minutes, even did pendulums. I think @vashdashwill learn faster than most.

[Funky]

3 hours ago, noonewantstobepeterchris said:

After about 20 hours of riding, you will be looking to upgrade if you went with a small suspension-less wheel like a KS 14D or something.

Wrong.

Not everyone needs long range wheel. Same goes for sonic the hedgehog speeds.. For some that ks14d can be their one and only wheel.

People who wanna go regular bicycle speeds, have no need of long ranges - small and compact wheels are perfect. Or have to carry their wheel often. I and my old man are happy with those smaller wheels. And have not thought about getting anything faster/bigger in past 3 years of usage. I personally want new wheel already, but sadly we aren't getting anything new made in our category of wheels.. (Lightweight)

Edited March 10 by Funky

[xiiijojjo]

5 hours ago, noonewantstobepeterchris said:

After about 20 hours of riding, you will be looking to upgrade if you went with a small suspension-less wheel like a KS 14D or something.

And thank GOD that I didn't have access to an ET MAX after my first 20 hours, because I would have been gone and buried, a long time ago. 

I have to agree with @Funkynot everyone needs more speed/weight, but most people who have access to that will test the limits, like I did when I cut out a Msuper V3. If I had had a stronger wheel the cut-out would not have happened, but what else could have happened to my inexperienced speed demon ass, if I hadn't started on wheels with limits? 

I think we're gonna see a drastic increase in EUC deaths in the next few years, and I suspect most of the deaths won't be veterans who slowly grew accustomed to the higher speeds, but rather people like me when I started, who buy the coolest and fastest EUC as my first purchase, being all too eager about going too fast too soon.

I'm certain I would have died at least a handful of times if I had gotten a Master/ET MAX for my first wheel. 

Let me put it this way. If you had a young kid would you get them an ET MAX? Probably not, right? I like to think of EUC beginners as kids, in the sense that we must protect them from themselves, because THEY are the most dangerous part in the equation of riding an EUC, at least until they become experienced drivers.

With wheels this fast I think manufacturers should start implementing a system (that a few wheels had in the past) where you have to go a certain amount of kilometers before the full speed unlocks. I recommend 200km... However It probably wouldn't work because they would have to make a bypass mechanism to allow for experienced riders to disable the speed-limit, and new riders would figure out how to bypass this too...

I guess we'll just have to see what happens, but prepare for EUC deaths to increase and for public image to further deteriorate. Europeans are already dealing with increasing levels of enforcement/confiscation and this will keep increasing, unless EUC somehow become road legal, which I very much doubt will happen in a meaningful timeframe. 

Edited March 10 by xiiijojjo

[Hellkitten]

5 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I'll be really interested to hear what @vashdash reports about this if he does go a head and get the master. My intuition is rather the opposite - I think the 2 sets of skills are largely unrelated and with actually very few areas of overlap. The riding posture, balance priorities, mounting, braking, turning are all done differently on a manual unicycle. Perhaps it might help with that initial balancing whilst stationary, if that is how he chooses to free-mount, rather than the 'running push-up' (as most often exemplified by Dawn), where you do a couple of kick-offs before you dock the remaining foot when the wheel has started moving and angular momentum is already mostly doing its thing to keep you upright...

Having had only the very briefest exposure to manual UCs I am hardly qualified to venture an opinion, but will be interesting to see who is right !

A few of our local riders had some traditional unicycle riding experience and all of them picked it up much easier than most.  I obviously can’t say for sure if it was that background or that those people might just be better at picking up balancing activities than others. 🤷🏻‍♂️