What's everyone think about the Ustride video?

[upL8N8]

10 hours ago, Drunkard said:

I think police should knock on the door of these "riders" and take away all of there toys.. Usually if the kid is misbehaving with the toy parents takes it away. Seems like these guys have the same responsibility level as a 3 years old.. 

AlianRides covering for the wining wheel is directly promoting and sponsoring this type of riding. Stupid AF from all involved. 

Alienrides is generously rewarding and promoting stupidity to advertise their shop and sell wheels.   They're struggling to sell their inventory with all the Telegram sellers, but using an illegal and dangerous event to advertise their store, and rewarding a guy who took more risks than anyone and pressured U-Stride to add additional risk to the event by racing for pinks... yeah, I don't think rewarding this guy or this type of event is the best way to promote the hobby. 

ARs was probably thinking, "it'll only cost us ~$2250 to ship out an EX30 and leach off of what might be the biggest news out of the EUC community this year".

AR should stick to closed circuit race events, and promote influencers who do cool shit that, at the very least, doesn't put unaware pedestrians at high risk of getting hurt / killed, or doesn't promote a complete lack of safety gear when they know full well the inherent risk of EUC cutout whether it be from overpowering or simple failure in the electronics.

While I'm not a huge fan of Eevees management, what AR just did effectively undermines everything Eevees has been doing to promote legal road use for EUCs.  It's hard to claim that EUCs need big powerful motors for safety or argue claims of them being a nuisance is exaggerated, when another EUC store is promoting this particular type of illegal race.

ARs also now made it impossible for U-Stride to do the right thing and pay up given that everyone universally agrees that he's in the wrong... possibly saving some measure of his reputation...  Or maybe he would just refuse and his reputation would be dead.

IMO, Blitz races were a good idea for the community.... right up until the moment Stride started selecting courses that put pedestrians directly in the path of fast moving EUC racers, and again right up until he accepted these stakes against the "for the love of the race" intentions of this whole thing.  I guess maybe he really thought voiding the stakes at the end of the race wouldn't come across as badly as it did.  Sorry, but that only works if you win.

Edited August 15, 2023 by upL8N8

[winterwheel]

As I live in a glass house, I don't ever critique other people for the way they ride.

The entertainment value of the video was awesome for me.

[0000]

You know it's kind of ironic because seeing stuff like this makes me think I'm living on a different planet, Aliens indeed. I feel like this dumpster fire should get another breakdown due to the balls deep, multi-layered fail at hand:

So to start with, it's one thing to have an unsanctioned, illegal race on public streets where all traffic signaling is ignored. Not a great thing for society, but it happens. I think it's pretty much an unspoken rule now in America today that dense urban areas like NYC are essentially traffic autonomous zones in which the rule of law has been suspended (YMMV). And yes, dodging pedestrian right of way and scaring the shit out of those hapless denizens, not to mention stressing out those the right-of-way cross traffic drivers, it's obviously not a good look. But it doesn’t stop there.

Many riders by now understand the risk of injury associated with EUC accidents of all stripes and appropriately suit up adopting a healthy ATGATT attitude, sometimes after unnecessarily suffering through bitter personal experiences themselves. Here we have the opposite, exemplifying the smooth neural ridge condition, zero-gear, devil may care (about tax payers picking up my potential hospital bills) attitude, in an already high risk environment. They’re not sending their best, people.

Emphasis on exemplifying too because it’s one thing to have underground races or activities where adrenaline seekers have the common sense to hide their identities when flagrantly violating traffic laws and general public decency, but here it’s all hanging out in the wind here simply for, I’m assuming, the “likes”.

If and, most likely, when our nascent hobby reaches the level of public nuisance in which legislators and regulators decide to act, a process in which videos like this are surely “helping” to expedite, who are they going to come after first? Ridges as smooth as freshly paved tarmac. We’re really getting out there now folks, but wait, it gets even better.

Interpersonal race drama aside, all of this could have been chalked up to a bunch of yahoos most people wouldn’t otherwise interact with in the course of their day-to-day lives if it weren’t for the existence of the internet. Yeah it’s embarrassing, a bad look for the hobby, and even an obvious short and long-term business risk (how do you continue to sell EUCs if they get banned) for associating with the people who publicly promote this kind of illegal and risky activity, but then a company sees this dumpster fire and dives in head first.

Taking sides in this side show is tacit endorsement, as @Drunkard said, of all of the above, that’s like business 101. Maybe that’s the thing though, I mean it’s pretty clear in this thread how most of the forum members here feels about this circus show, but maybe we’re the aliens now for spouting this kind of antiquated common sense. I don’t know, is that where the Facebook public wheel-buying customers are at nowadays, and rule of the jungle types are dominating the streets? Some days it looks and feels that way.

Anyway, like I said, I think we reached Fukushima level radioactivity with this one, but my Geiger counter is calibrated with 1950s level thinking, and maybe they’re just not built that way anymore. I think the kids these days would characterize this kind of review as “hate”-feedback.

[winterwheel]

Our problem is not the possibility of getting banned, it is the impossibility of getting explicitly legal.

And the reason that is not happening is because the riders in our own communities are dressing up like power rangers and (in my community in particular) screaming at pedestrians who feel threatened by PEVs on sidewalks.

If we want to get legal we have to make EUC riding an anyone-can-do-it thing, what happens in NYC is totally irrelevant to that.

[0000]

29 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Our problem is not the possibility of getting banned, it is the impossibility of getting explicitly legal.

Like I said before, if legislators have access to experts who understand how to appropriately analyze risk, these devices cannot be made road legal due to the possibility of an electronic failure dumping the rider into traffic and getting run by the car behind them, so you're right about the impossibility of them becoming "road or traffic" legal if that's what you mean.

The risk you are ignoring by only placing importance on your own entertainment here is that the law-of-the-jungle types will eventually elevate public attention to the degree that police begin to issue heavy fines or escalate to confiscations and stop anyone seen on a wheel in or on public roadways. That's the future UStride and his friends are "helping" bring about here.

29 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

And the reason that is not happening is because the riders in our own communities are dressing up like power rangers

You mean appropriately suiting up for the risks they are taking so they don't end up with completely avoidable months or years long injuries. I didn't have to go far back to find the latest example of ignorance regarding EUCs and basic physics + the results.

29 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

If we want to get legal we have to make EUC riding an anyone-can-do-it thing

Again, this is impossible for riding in or with traffic due to the failure mode. The most realistic goal is tacit acceptance or for legislators to continue to look the other way as the majority rides their wheels in ways that aren't disruptive or blatantly illegal.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Vanturion

[The Brahan Seer]

35 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

And the reason that is not happening is because the riders in our own communities are dressing up like power rangers

Ah I understand now why you don't wear much gear. Its not because you don't see the merits of it but to you it means other people will think riding EUC's is dangerous.

 I have met 1 or 2 pedestrians over the years who think like you but I meet many more who equate to wearing gear to being sensible and don't see the link you do at all.

That doesn't invalidate your thought processes it just explains to me why it bothers you so much when people gear up (I never understood before).

[0000]

40 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Its not because you don't see the merits of it but to you it means other people will think riding EUC's is dangerous.

Which is an even dumber take as it not only gives people/the-public the wrong impression that it's perfectly safe to discount the possibility of an accident and subsequent avoidable injury, but he's putting himself at increased risk to broadcast this ill-advised message. SMH.

The thought process is invalidated by the premise being false. Riding EUCs is risky behavior and gear appropriately helps mitigate that risk.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Vanturion
grammar

[TheNotoriousEUC]

If there is a silver lining at all, it’s that the discussion is being had at all as to where the community on a whole draws the line…maybe? It isn’t like this was the first race let alone the first one on YT. He had another Blitz that ended at “Headquarters,” not that long ago. This latest seems to be the tipping point. I get NY is different. The police have more important things to do. The problem is, LEO’s every where don’t have better things to do. If I so much as split lanes at a traffic light I would draw attention and it would be attention that would be dealt with in the most inconvenient way for myself. The bigger problem is, with the countless hours of perfectly sedate riding of EUC’s on YT, there only needs to be a handful of risky behavior videos for local municipalities to pull up and have a panic attack over. 
 

In my day to day I am a coach. That’s it. It is all I do. I represent organizations when we are on the road from USA on down. I am hyper aware about representing in a positive manner. The EUC community, subjectively, is a like small organization so every time one person has a very public (unflattering, unlawful) moment the entire community gets judged. I’m not going to unsub from U-Stride. I don’t like what he did. I don’t like the idea of racing amongst pedestrians, cars and red lights. Growth is personal and everyone has a slightly different path, different speed. It’s my hope growth comes from this and people learn, get better and move forward. In this socials world, clout can equal money but chasing it can cost one integrity. Integrity is free but it’s really expensive when one loses it. 

[0000]

1 hour ago, TheNotoriousEUC said:

Growth is personal and everyone has a slightly different path, different speed. It’s my hope growth comes from this and people learn, get better and move forward.

On one hand, if stuff like this doesn't get a harsh reaction in the community, we'll just see more of it which will surely lead to the negative outcomes spelled out above. IMO it's right and proper to call a spade a spade especially since this racing event was made to be a public matter by posting the video. On the other hand, you are right, cancel culture sucks.

If a person can learn and own up to their mistakes, acknowledge that they F'd up, and make amends in some way, then there's no reason everyone can't move forward somewhat positively. There's a pretty big hole that's been dug here metaphorically speaking, at least in terms of sentiment for those not immediately personally or financially affected, but if we're going to try and live in an ideal/better world, redemption should be possible even with the harshest of critics.

It's just video-taping evidence of your own infractions and then posting it up, it's just dumb. It's a dumb trend. And you know what, let's be real, this 21st century is dumb. Mike Judge was a prophet, and I think I'm going to log off now and spray some more Brawndo on the garden as things are looking a little dry out there.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Vanturion

[Paul g]

12 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Which is an even dumber take as it not only gives people/the-public the wrong impression that it's perfectly safe to discount the possibility of an accident and subsequent avoidable injury, but he's putting himself at increased risk to broadcast this ill-advised message. SMH.

The thought process is invalidated by the premise being false. Riding EUCs is risky behavior and gear appropriately helps mitigate that risk.

      Yes, but he could understand his thought process (which is erroneous, indeed). This is called empathy, and it is a type of intelligence especially we men, kind of lack, and it’s a pity, cause it makes us more human and more intelligent.

[Robse]

On 8/14/2023 at 8:47 PM, onewheelkoregro said:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/309931096098067/permalink/1726922617732234/?ref=share&mibextid=NOb6eG this is the video that U stride deleted. The one that shows him agreeing to race for his ex 30

There is only one thing worse than losing a bet. This is when the loser denies having lost what he bet on.   Lots of smart talk, and no honor, shamelessly.

[onewheelkoregro]

18 hours ago, upL8N8 said:

Alienrides is generously rewarding and promoting stupidity to advertise their shop and sell wheels.   They're struggling to sell their inventory with all the Telegram sellers, but using an illegal and dangerous event to advertise their store, and rewarding a guy who took more risks than anyone and pressured U-Stride to add additional risk to the event by racing for pinks... yeah, I don't think rewarding this guy or this type of event is the best way to promote the hobby. 

ARs was probably thinking, "it'll only cost us ~$2250 to ship out an EX30 and leach off of what might be the biggest news out of the EUC community this year".

AR should stick to closed circuit race events, and promote influencers who do cool shit that, at the very least, doesn't put unaware pedestrians at high risk of getting hurt / killed, or doesn't promote a complete lack of safety gear when they know full well the inherent risk of EUC cutout whether it be from overpowering or simple failure in the electronics.

While I'm not a huge fan of Eevees management, what AR just did effectively undermines everything Eevees has been doing to promote legal road use for EUCs.  It's hard to claim that EUCs need big powerful motors for safety or argue claims of them being a nuisance is exaggerated, when another EUC store is promoting this particular type of illegal race.

ARs also now made it impossible for U-Stride to do the right thing and pay up given that everyone universally agrees that he's in the wrong... possibly saving some measure of his reputation...  Or maybe he would just refuse and his reputation would be dead.

IMO, Blitz races were a good idea for the community.... right up until the moment Stride started selecting courses that put pedestrians directly in the path of fast moving EUC racers, and again right up until he accepted these stakes against the "for the love of the race" intentions of this whole thing.  I guess maybe he really thought voiding the stakes at the end of the race wouldn't come across as badly as it did.  Sorry, but that only works if you win.

I bet U stride wouldn't have had any issue taking Wheezy's Master Pro if he had won. But we cannot discuss that because that is not what happened. He lost and he reneged on his word. You cannot be a competitor in any sport and not honor your word. Well you can but no one is ever going to respect you again

[onewheelkoregro]

18 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Like I said before, if legislators have access to experts who understand how to appropriately analyze risk, these devices cannot be made road legal due to the possibility of an electronic failure dumping the rider into traffic and getting run by the car behind them, so you're right about the impossibility of them becoming "road or traffic" legal if that's what you mean.

The risk you are ignoring by only placing importance on your own entertainment here is that the law-of-the-jungle types will eventually elevate public attention to the degree that police begin to issue heavy fines or escalate to confiscations and stop anyone seen on a wheel in or on public roadways. That's the future UStride and his friends are "helping" bring about here.

There is nothing stopping a car from exploding on the street. I am a diesel tech and I have gone to multiple sites where the diesel "ran away" from the operator and it actually happens quite often. If you are ever on the west coast and see like a "turn off" with what looks like a dirt wall at the end. That's what those are for, to crash trucks into to get them to stop when the Truck won't stop accelerating.

[eezo]

22 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Which is an even dumber take as it not only gives people/the-public the wrong impression that it's perfectly safe to discount the possibility of an accident and subsequent avoidable injury, but he's putting himself at increased risk to broadcast this ill-advised message. SMH.

The thought process is invalidated by the premise being false. Riding EUCs is risky behavior and gear appropriately helps mitigate that risk.

It's possible to wear full gear and not look like you stepped out of a Call of Duty game. You can wear the pads under pants (motorcycle jeans, other style pants) and upper body gear under long sleeves, plus the full face helmet. People can see you're wearing a lot of protective gear, but you don't look like you're about go bust an entrenched drug cartel.

One looks responsible to onlookers; the other raises suspicions about whether you should be doing what you're doing in any kind of proximity to them.

[0000]

2 hours ago, eezo said:

One looks responsible to onlookers; the other raises suspicions about whether you should be doing what you're doing in any kind of proximity to them.

Really? I think the last thing we need is gear police when people are simply trying to make the best choices to keep themselves safe when riding.

I mean I agree up to a point, but how many people are painting pirate skulls on their gear, or displaying gang symbols for that matter, or visibly strapping on firearms like Robocop when cruising the block on their wheel? Feel free to link any examples of egregiously anti-social safety-gear wearing riders that aren't on their way to some kind of Cosplay.

Outside of the I-may-have-just-robbed-a-bank-all-black brigade, I think you're asserting a problem that doesn't largely doesn't exist.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Vanturion

[0000]

5 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

There is nothing stopping a car from exploding on the street. I am a diesel tech and I have gone to multiple sites where the diesel "ran away" from the operator and it actually happens quite often.

This is an assertion without proof (feel free to provide some links), automobiles don't just spontaneously explode. Even the Ford Pinto which became infamous for almost exactly that, required at least a low-speed collision before the design flaw caused the explosion and resulted in horrible fiery deaths. What you may be referring to is fuel delivery lines leaking or oil leaking onto hot surfaces like the exhaust manifold in older vehicles causing a fire which then requires the driver to quickly pull over and fight that fire if they have the means available to do so.

Even with those kind of dangerous failures, the driver seeing the smoke has time to pull over and safely exit the roadway. Not so with a wheel-cutout which can happen when the motor is over-powered due to an unforseen obstacle in the roadway or any kind of electrical failure of the numerous components required on the motorcontroller to keep things balanced, upright, and the rider in control.

5 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

If you are ever on the west coast and see like a "turn off" with what looks like a dirt wall at the end. That's what those are for, to crash trucks into to get them to stop when the Truck won't stop accelerating.

Even these kinds of examples still has the driver in control of their vehicle with mitigation plans for semi's who lose their ability to brake. The truck operator isn't just immediately dumped onto the highway left to the mercy or reaction time of the Tik-Tok scrolling driver behind them.

I get that people want EUCs to be road legal and gain some kind of codified permission from their respective governments to share the road, but I think that viewpoint is somewhat naive and relies on a certain level of ignorance amongst lawmakers (not that that's not a thing). Like I said, because of the failure mode of these vehicles, it's not feasible that they'll be treated like motorcycles gaining the same level of permitted access to the roads.

At best I think continued use of bike lanes and discrete use of public roadways in low-traffic areas is the most feasible goal for us which will realistically only persist for as long as the crowd of people flaunting all traffic regulations and holding unsanctioned downtown races is kept to a barest of minimums, ideally zero. IMO everyone who wants to avoid regulatory crackdowns should admonish excessively bad riding ettiquette and the publicity surrounding such.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Vanturion

[onewheelkoregro]

1 minute ago, Vanturion said:

This is an assertion without proof (feel free to provide some links), automobiles don't just spontaneously explode. Even the Ford Pinto which became infamous for almost exactly that, required at least a low-speed collision before the design flaw caused the explosion and resulted in horrible fiery deaths. What you may be referring to is fuel delivery lines leaking or oil leaking onto hot surfaces like the exhaust manifold in older vehicles causing a fire which then requires the driver to quickly pull over and fight that fire if they have the means available to do so.

Even with those kind of dangerous failures, the driver seeing the smoke has time to pull over and safely exit the roadway. Not so with a wheel-cutout which can happen when the motor is over-powered due to an unforseen obstacle in the roadway or any kind of electrical failure of the numerous components required on the motorcontroller to keep things balanced, upright, and the rider in control.

I wasn't trying to imply that cars would randomly explode, or that cutouts are uncommon. With any mode of transportation there is inherent risk. I was just trying to simply state that no form of travel is "safe". You could be walking outside and a piece of the ISS could fall off and nail you in the head. So you should you not walk outside? I was just trying to state that living life comes with the inherent risk of it ending prematurely

[sbb]

5 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

I bet U stride wouldn't have had any issue taking Wheezy's Master Pro if he had won. But we cannot discuss that because that is not what happened. He lost and he reneged on his word. You cannot be a competitor in any sport and not honor your word. Well you can but no one is ever going to respect you again

I concur, but there's some nuance floating around.

NYC has a shady-people problem, and that crew now has the same reputation as that God-Mod scammer.

They knew it was a loaned wheel that could not be given.  Full stop.

There was also no scenario where Wheezy was going to lose that race. The no-cars perfectly-straight drag-race tunnel at the end was all that mattered; all the shark needed to do was stay anywhere near the sucker until that tunnel, and that's that.  And the shark did better than that; UStride followed him at whatever pace Wheezy set. It wasn't a contest. It was a con.

There's also a lot of talk that the race was agreed to "as a blitz", prior to UStride making the trip, and that terms were changed after the time and cost he spent to get there. For a wheel they knew he could not give. If that pans out to be true, well, you be the judge.

UStride's decision to scam the scammer was not good, and he'll get the reputation he's earned. But I do find it hilarious to watch all the salt. There are no clean hands on this one.

 

[0000]

36 minutes ago, onewheelkoregro said:

I was just trying to state that living life comes with the inherent risk of it ending prematurely

Ok good, in that case we can enter the realm of nuance.

Let's say lawmakers have a proper grasp of the non-zero risk of electrical failure cut-out from these hobbyist level/quality PEVs, they understand that higher speeds in many models without some lean-back function don't simply top-out like conventional vehicles but increase the risk of causing a cut-out due to over-confidence, unanticipated obstacles, etc., and understand that any failure to keep the vehicle upright and balanced dumps the rider into the roadway and into traffic.

In addition to the unavoidable motor cut-out risks, these wheels have uniquely looong braking distances required to come to a stop further adding to the risks associated with their use in traffic and high density areas (or anywhere else for that matter).

All of this being the case, what incentives do lawmakers have to codify permission of these inherently more risky devices for use in traffic? And do those incentives outweigh the disincentives particularly when there are other perceived safer PEV alternatives that don't have the same risks outlined above such as e-bikes with already existing laws on the books permitting their use. This is also to say nothing of the loss of tax revenue typically provided by conventional vehicles when permitting potential transportation replacement low-cost alternatives to share the same infrastructure, what do lawmakers have to gain here?

That's more or less a more realistic look at the situation here. Obviously I'm not anti-EUCs, but I don't think it helps anyone to pretend they have a shot in hell of gaining the same legal status of motorcycles for use on public roadways, especially if some riders are mistakenly giving the public the impression that responsible riding doesn't require any gear in an attempt to misrepresent the risks associated with their use.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Vanturion

[0000]

19 minutes ago, sbb said:

UStride's decision to scam the scammer was not good, and he'll get the reputation he's earned. But I do find it hilarious to watch all the salt. There are no clean hands on this one.

That's what it was about, huh. I mean, how the hell would the wider public even know that without being deep into the scene already.

On top of everything else, that's a pretty bad failure to properly set the stage in the intro of this public race video. Thinking back it didn't look like he was trying to hard to win there at any point. In any case, the intent to scam the scammer doesn't really mitigate any of the other fails detailed above either. It's Brawndo all the way down.

[onewheelkoregro]

1 hour ago, sbb said:

I concur, but there's some nuance floating around.

NYC has a shady-people problem, and that crew now has the same reputation as that God-Mod scammer.

They knew it was a loaned wheel that could not be given.  Full stop.

There was also no scenario where Wheezy was going to lose that race. The no-cars perfectly-straight drag-race tunnel at the end was all that mattered; all the shark needed to do was stay anywhere near the sucker until that tunnel, and that's that.  And the shark did better than that; UStride followed him at whatever pace Wheezy set. It wasn't a contest. It was a con.

There's also a lot of talk that the race was agreed to "as a blitz", prior to UStride making the trip, and that terms were changed after the time and cost he spent to get there. For a wheel they knew he could not give. If that pans out to be true, well, you be the judge.

UStride's decision to scam the scammer was not good, and he'll get the reputation he's earned. But I do find it hilarious to watch all the salt. There are no clean hands on this one.

 

in my experience it never is a good look to say," Well that person did such and such, so that justifies me doing such and such" He should've just packed it up and went home. IMO

 

[Gkindy]

The lasting image that I keep playing over in my head is the way U-stride smiled while shaking Wheezy’s hand agreeing to race for each others wheel. 

[Robse]

ok ok ok - sick as a dog, or what?   Then it was all just for commercial attention - clickbait etc.. an arranged game, who's been fooling who?  but i dont care, leaving this thread for good , fortunately we havent reach this point of stupid and reckless riding in Denmark... yet

Edited August 17, 2023 by Robse

[Planemo]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:35 AM, TheNotoriousEUC said:

The police have more important things to do. The problem is, LEO’s every where don’t have better things to do.

You touch on a point here which many riders don't take into account.

The vast majority of police officers DO actually have better things to do, but crucially also know that they don't want to be seen to do nothing when an offence occurs in front of their faces. Theres too many camera phones, Karen's, online complaint forms etc that makes it very easy for an apparently 'lazy' officer to get hauled up for dereliction of duty.

I know in the UK that if you were to ride along a busy pavement/coastal promenade and happened across a couple of cops they would be duty bound to stop you because Mrs Miggins who just got frightened out of her skin when you passed her at 5.7mph and/or Tracey and her 6 feral kids who ran in front of you will be looking for police to do something. There would be questions asked if the police didn't, and they would have to have a story ready to justify why they didn't because you can bet somebody would complain to the local HQ why they just let you sail past. Trust me, most cops would definitely rather do something else than deal with a PEV rider (I'll exclude traffic cops) but put them in a position where they have to be seen doing something and it's another matter.

[eezo]

19 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Feel free to link any examples of egregiously anti-social safety-gear wearing riders that aren't on their way to some kind of Cosplay.

Outside of the I-may-have-just-robbed-a-bank-all-black brigade, I think you're asserting a problem that doesn't largely doesn't exist.

How about a CBC video with 134k views on YouTube alone? The general public doesn't see people riding a GSX1300R looking like this. The general public doesn't see any of the motocross riders at the X games looking like a SWAT team. The general public doesn't see people on e-bikes looking like this. They don't see people on e-scooters or e-skates, or onewheels looking like this.

A rider going around looking like this raises the question in people's minds, "if someone is riding something and looks like that, I don't want them riding near me." Keep in mind, when it comes to what the public thinks, reality doesn't matter. Perception is the only thing that matters. Public perception is what drives government policy (lobbying and money does too, but that will never be on our side), so it doesn't matter what reality is, what matters is what the people think who write letters to their government representatives.

Edited August 17, 2023 by eezo