InMotion swappable batteries?!

[onewheelkoregro]

If this is true it will be a game changer! Imagine being able to take your wheel on a plane on vacation! And just renting batteries wherever I land sounds infinitely better than having to have a friend with a loaner wheel wherever I happen to be going. What are everyone else's thoughts?

[techyiam]

For me, the utility will be for the out of town rides on my own, or on group rides. I probably need about 2400 Wh for commuting in town. Being able to add another pack or two would save me from having to buy another wheel. I already have wheels that I can use as a backup. 

[Schmudel]

EUC on a plane will most likely not happen. Most airlines state clearly on their websites “no self balancing vehicles”. ☹️

[bpong]

3 minutes ago, Schmudel said:

EUC on a plane will most likely not happen. Most airlines state clearly on their websites “no self balancing vehicles”. ☹️

this will probably be amended given that at the time this phrase was used,  all self balancing vehicles where all-in-one construction.  but the process to have this airline regulation amended may be very time consuming... 

[Roadpower]

5 minutes ago, Schmudel said:

EUC on a plane will most likely not happen. Most airlines state clearly on their websites “no self balancing vehicles”. ☹️

Out of curiosity I happen to watch a lot of aviation related content and have learned a great deal in the last year. Apparently airlines are now keeping fire sacks on planes to cope with devices that start burning themselves down. While it would be a significant inconvenience I am of the opinion that all lithium ion battery tech should be banned from planes if we are to take fire seriously on what is already a potentially catastrophic situation with heavy loss of life should things go bad.

The airline industry is generally fantastic and extremely safety conscious, so the fact that lithium-ion powered devices electronic devices haven't been banned yet demonstrates that this is a very tough topic to handle. Banning li-ion self balancing devices was however a easy choice to make for the industry.

[GothamMike]

4 hours ago, Roadpower said:

Out of curiosity I happen to watch a lot of aviation related content and have learned a great deal in the last year. Apparently airlines are now keeping fire sacks on planes to cope with devices that start burning themselves down. While it would be a significant inconvenience I am of the opinion that all lithium ion battery tech should be banned from planes if we are to take fire seriously on what is already a potentially catastrophic situation with heavy loss of life should things go bad.

The airline industry is generally fantastic and extremely safety conscious, so the fact that lithium-ion powered devices electronic devices haven't been banned yet demonstrates that this is a very tough topic to handle. Banning li-ion self balancing devices was however a easy choice to make for the industry.

Any Li-Ion battery bigger than a laptop is not allowed. Only allowed in carry on bags. 

https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe

There have been horrible electrical and battery fires on jets.

[Roadpower]

1 hour ago, GothamMike said:

Any Li-Ion battery bigger than a laptop is not allowed. Only allowed in carry on bags. 

https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe

There have been horrible electrical and battery fires on jets.

Yes and I'm wondering why it hasn't gone further. They are literally playing with fire. https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2023/03/03/faa-lithium-battery-fire-smoke-airplane/ March 03 2023

Quote

FAA: Lithium Battery Incidents On Planes Now Happening More Than Once Per Week

 

[Schmudel]

I have been traveling with my DIY Electric Skateboard which uses RC Type Lipo Batteries without any problems. They are less than 100Wh each and i take them in my carry on bag.

[mhpr262]

If Inmotion manages to pull that off and they offer different wheels that all use the same battery pack and the wheel can optionally be bought without battery packs that will be a huge advantage over the competition.

Imagine buying a V11 and then being able to buy a V10F without batteries for just $500-600 or less because you can use the batteries from the V11 (yes, I know only the coming wheels will have that feature, it is just a thought experiment)

[varamontelo]

You have a good idea. I hope that technicians and commercial will read this post.

[Rawnei]

On 7/27/2023 at 2:08 AM, onewheelkoregro said:

If this is true it will be a game changer! Imagine being able to take your wheel on a plane on vacation! And just renting batteries wherever I land sounds infinitely better than having to have a friend with a loaner wheel wherever I happen to be going. What are everyone else's thoughts?

What do you mean "if true"? What is your source? I don't see any information about it.

[techyiam]

57 minutes ago, mhpr262 said:

If Inmotion manages to pull that off and they offer different wheels that all use the same battery pack and the wheel can optionally be bought without battery packs that will be a huge advantage over the competition.

Imagine buying a V11 and then being able to buy a V10F without batteries for just $500-600 or less because you can use the batteries from the V11 (yes, I know only the coming wheels will have that feature, it is just a thought experiment)

Bob Yan said that the swappable battery packs is only offer in the Adventure line and the Challenger line.

But who knows with the new CEO.

[Merkyu Kyu Kyu]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

Bob Yan said that the swappable battery packs is only offer in the Adventure line and the Challenger line.

But who knows with the new CEO.

He also mentioned that the upcoming wheels will be compatible with the previous batteries.

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, Merk said:

He also mentioned that the upcoming wheels will be compatible with the previous batteries.

Can you provide a link to that?

Thanks.

[onewheelkoregro]

12 hours ago, Rawnei said:

What do you mean "if true"? What is your source? I don't see any information about it.

I think I seen former CEO of Inmotion Bob Yang talk about it in his last video before he retired. It is mentioned briefly but the video itself is over an hour long. Here is the video though 

 

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, onewheelkoregro said:

I think I seen former CEO of Inmotion Bob Yang talk about it in his last video before he retired. It is mentioned briefly but the video itself is over an hour long. Here is the video though 

 

Oh ok, I would interest that more like a design goal/wishlist/ambition.

[Merkyu Kyu Kyu]

18 hours ago, techyiam said:

Can you provide a link to that?

Thanks.

 

start at 25:35

[techyiam]

19 hours ago, techyiam said:

On 7/29/2023 at 5:49 AM, Merk said:

He also mentioned that the upcoming wheels will be compatible with the previous batteries.

Can you provide a link to that?

 

1 hour ago, Merk said:

 

start at 25:35

Thanks.

I have watched this video before, and I rewatched it a few more times now, starting at your timestamp. It looks like we differ in interpretation. We will know for xure soon enough. 

[InfiniteWheelie]

I'm a huge fan of swappable battery packs for almost all PEVs such as ebikes, escooters etc. It means the battery is well encased, easy to connect/disconnect, can be brought inside for safe keeping or charging, allows quick swaps for a freshly charged pack etc. However for electric wheels it's a terrible idea and will either fail spectacularly, or more likely won't even be released.

 

Firstly to have a swappable battery it's need to be a single enclosed unit, not broken up into multiple packs meant to be connected together. As pointed out already this causes major issues with varying states of charge, age of cells, temperature of cells, replacing a single pack but not others etc. The list just goes on.

Secondly almost all e-wheels use a 4 pack design which 1 pack in each corner essentially. There's no way to physically balance this properly when using less than 4 packs as people (Inmotion?) are suggesting will be a feature. The best you can do is put 2 on opposite corners and that's still not technically balanced 100%. Forget using 1 or 3 packs entirely.

Thirdly using less than 4 packs will greatly reduce not just the range, but also the power of the wheel. You'd have to use the highest power cells available, and even then power would need to be limited in some way, as the different arrangements are not equal.

 

Companies keep throwing out words like "swappable" and "modular" and most people just seem to eat it up, without knowing what any of this actually means for an electric wheel. I'm not an engineer but when I watch electric wheel videos on Youtube it seems that almost everyone is highly uninformed including the top testers, reviewers, vendors etc. I guess e-wheels are still in their infancy so it's to be expected.

Edited July 31, 2023 by InfiniteWheelie

[Funky]

If i will like this new wheel. I for sure will use 1 battery pack.

Why can't you use 1/3 packs?? Like it will unbalance the wheel so much.. Have you tried riding while carrying a grocery bag - not a problem. Also if battery packs are pretty low to ground and more in center of the wheel. The weight difference will be almost not noticeable. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Funky

[InfiniteWheelie]

55 minutes ago, Funky said:

If i will like this new wheel. I for sure will use 1 battery pack.

Why can't you use 1/3 packs?? Like it will unbalance the wheel so much.. Have you tried riding while carrying a grocery bag - not a problem. Also if battery packs are pretty low to ground and more in center of the wheel. The weight difference will be almost not noticeable. 

1 pack - Totally retarded. Completely unbalanced and 1/4 the power? Okay have fun with that.

2 packs (opposite corners) - Slightly unbalanced and 1/2 the power? Still sucks.

3 packs - Highly unbalanced and missing 1/4 power. For what, to save a slight bit of weight which was actually making it perfectly balanced?

 

By the way how are they going to fill these massive gaps where the battery packs go, with blanks? At the end of the day this idea is so stupid that it won't even be released.

Edited July 31, 2023 by InfiniteWheelie

[Funky]

25 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

1 pack - Totally retarded. Completely unbalanced and 1/4 the power? Okay have fun with that.

2 packs (opposite corners) - Slightly unbalanced and 1/2 the power? Still sucks.

3 packs - Highly unbalanced and missing 1/4 power. For what, to save a slight bit of weight which was actually making it perfectly balanced?

 

By the way how are they going to fill these massive gaps where the battery packs go, with blanks? At the end of the day this idea is so stupid that it won't even be released.

Not everyone wants to go  60km/h+++ And need range of 100km.

I think with one pack you should be available to ride at "running" speed(25km/h tops). And range about 10km? < Perfect for my daily not geared commute to job. Add another pack when going for a "fun" ride and you can go ~40km/h maybe? And have range of ~30km.

 

But i see your point of wasted space, etc.. Also not needed extra weight for 4x battery slots, that some may not need or use ever.. From one viewpoint it's awesome wheel. But from another it's a shitty design and simply dumb. Should have built 3x separate wheels with 1000/2000/3000Wh battery packs.

In most cases people even will not remove the packs ever... As some who don't need to carry the wheel at all. They will simply get 4x packs and forget about them. Do you think they will remove them daily? Of course not..

[Robse]

39 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

1 pack - Totally retarded. Completely unbalanced and 1/4 the power? Okay have fun with that.

2 packs (opposite corners) - Slightly unbalanced and 1/2 the power? Still sucks.

3 packs - Highly unbalanced and missing 1/4 power. For what, to save a slight bit of weight which was actually making it perfectly balanced?

 

By the way how are they going to fill these massive gaps where the battery packs go, with blanks? At the end of the day this idea is so stupid that it won't even be released.

I can only see two useful scenarios by having easily replaceable battery packs

1: That you can remove the batteries completely from the wheel and store them / charge in a fire-safe place

2: Same as with RC cars, boats and planes, that you can quickly switch to a complete new package if you run out of power when you are at the track day.

Running with a half pack?  Does two half witts make on full witt?

Edited July 31, 2023 by Robse

[Funky]

41 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

By the way how are they going to fill these massive gaps where the battery packs go, with blanks? At the end of the day this idea is so stupid that it won't even be released.

They could fill them with sand/rocks? Then everything will be balanced - as it should be.  

Edited July 31, 2023 by Funky

[Mono]

On 7/28/2023 at 5:32 PM, Schmudel said:

I have been traveling with my DIY Electric Skateboard which uses RC Type Lipo Batteries without any problems. They are less than 100Wh each and i take them in my carry on bag.

Self-balancing devices with and without battery are prohibited by most airlines, whereas a skateboard is not in this class of vehicles (last time I checked).