Are big heavy wheels such as V13, Sherman S or any wheels around 100 lbs good for me?

[Scubadragonsan]

Big wheels means more stability, faster speed, more power, more expensive...but is it for everyone, esp beginners? Some new riders, rather than learning on smaller wheels, have decided to take on the big wheels to save upgrading later. I know the new features such as suspension, fancy motherboard, built quality...are all very appealing. Can someone out there give some input to the pros and cons of a big wheel before new riders jump into investing $4000 for these wheels? Who are more suitable and who aren't? It's an open question....

[Hellkitten]

That’s a broad open ended question that really only you can answer. I’ll assume you are just asking for input. I checked your profile and you seem to ride smaller wheels exclusively. Do they fit your needs and usage? Learning on a small wheel is much, much easier to learn on and do tricks with. A large heavy wheel will take a little longer to get used to, but going back to smaller wheels will make them feel like toys. The newer generation of eucs are much more like electric motorcycles. Smaller models feel super sketchy and skittish in comparison. It seems like a lot of regular riders have a variety of sizes to cover their needs and pick a wheel according to what they’re doing. A friend of mine has a few large wheels, a midsize and a v8 for grocery runs. Ideally I’d like a large, medium and small euc. 

[Scubadragonsan]

Hellkitten, I post this question because some new riders, due to lack of knowledge about wheels and have purchased the big wheels. As a result, the learning curve is much steeper for them. If you have been following their experience in this forum, they got injured unnecessarily. And this could have been avoid if they had known the pros and cons of big wheels vs smaller wheels. New riders, therefore, can make better decisions learning with a big wheel or small wheel whichever is a better choice for them. I personally have one for errands, one for commuting to work, one for tricks, one for teaching friends. Thinking about getting a big wheel like Sherman S or V13. But prefer to wait for the next one that has Fastace suspension and a big battery like Begode Master Pro. That to me is the best of both worlds!  BTW, I am 63, 150 lbs and atheletic built.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Scubadragonsan

[Funky]

Sure learning on bigger wheels are much harder.. But not impossible to do.

Some people don't want to waste money buying a "learner" wheel. They simply will buy big wheel right from gecko. Sure there will be learning pains and it will take longer. But you saved some $$$ down the road.

If i needed big wheel, i would have bought one right from the beginning myself.

And i'm one of those guys - who owns only one wheel and don't plan getting second one.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Funky

[Jonny Ringo]

Last year I chose the V11 as my beginner wheel despite warnings that it would be more difficult to learn on due to the suspension and height of the machine. Those issues were indeed speedbumps in the process, however ultimately manageable. I put nearly 1,000 miles on it last year. This year I bought the V13 and I will say I would never want such a large wheel to learn on. It felt like I was starting over anyway after taking the winter off and stepping up to such a heavy wheel. My V11 now feels like a kids toy. These larger wheels are  cumbersome enough for the experienced rider and probably a bit too much for the uninitiated newby right out of the gate.

[Hellkitten]

1 hour ago, Scubadragonsan said:

I post this question because some new riders, due to lack of knowledge about wheels and have purchased the big wheels. As a result, the learning curve is much steeper for them. If you have been following their experience in this forum, they got injured unnecessarily. And this could have been avoid if they had known the pros and cons of big wheels vs smaller wheels.

Oh I absolutely have been following. I’ve posted multiple times on those threads. My first wheel was a v11 and that was a bit difficult to start on, but I’m stubborn. I almost bought an og Sherman as my first, but the weight, price and suspension steered me in the direction of the v11. I help teach new riders to ride at a local shop and we start all of them on small wheels then progress them to heavier wheels when they’re ready. Not everyone has access to that and it’s very hard to navigate the options out there and what the best course of action is. I decided against getting a small wheel to learn on because I knew I’d want something more, very soon after figuring things out. I’m glad I went that route, but it’s not for everyone. I think you threw me off a little by your thread title and I thought you were specifically referring to yourself rather than starting a conversation for new riders. Hopefully this turns into a valuable discussion, thank you for starting it. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Hellkitten

[mrelwood]

There seems to be an idea floating around that every rider would progress to big heavy wheels eventually anyway. And I guess that is what makes practical people skip the intermediate steps and start with the behemoths.

 But that idea is completely wrong! S18 and V11 were the most used wheels in ‘22 for a myriad of very good reasons. Despite what this forum and YouTube makes you think, most people don’t need, want, or have big and heavy wheels. And those midsize S18 and V11 are definitely not learner wheels. They are a mere stepping stone for some riders, but definitely not for most.

 I’m still on the V11, because nothing better has come up for me since 2020. My experience covers 34’000 km and a lot of technical off-roading, so I’m very far from a beginner. I’m not at all interested in wheels that can go much faster than I ever need to go, much further than I have the stamina for, and weigh more than I can lift into my car trunk on a bad back day.

 My suggestion is to start with a wheel between the sizes of V10F, 18XL and V11. They are very capable wheels, decent for learning, and not something you’ll want to replace in a month.

[alcatraz]

Bigger isn't always better. They stop (and react) slower, so you better find a balance that suits you. Not skipping wheels because we're all evolving to bigger wheels. That isn't the case.

Safety first for me means a high power 16in. For others, hard to say.

[UPONIT]

14 hours ago, Jonny Ringo said:

Last year I chose the V11 as my beginner wheel despite warnings that it would be more difficult to learn on due to the suspension and height of the machine. Those issues were indeed speedbumps in the process, however ultimately manageable.

The V11 with the suspension depressurized is very stable and easy to learn on. Then you have the suspension available when you get comfortable with riding higher and bouncier.

That's an aspect of the V13 I haven't seen discussed much since it is "too big to be a beginner wheel." How does it ride with the suspension removed? How much easier of a first wheel would it be with much lower pedals and no distracting bounciness?

I hope suspensions continue to be removable or lockable on future InMotion wheels for that reason alone. That way you have a "beginner" wheel AND your advanced 2nd wheel all in one...

[techyiam]

9 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

That's an aspect of the V13 I haven't seen discussed much since it is "too big to be a beginner wheel." How does it ride with the suspension removed? How much easier of a first wheel would it be with much lower pedals and no distracting bounciness?

For the average absolute beginner, the V13 would be way too much weight to deal with, even without suspension. 

There is too much weight to learn to balance, and way too much rotational inertia to go and stop.

Unless perhaps if the rider is really big and heavy.

[UPONIT]

16 minutes ago, techyiam said:

For the average absolute beginner, the V13 would be way too much weight to deal with, even without suspension. 

There is too much weight to learn to balance, and way too much rotational inertia to go and stop.

Unless perhaps if the rider is really big and heavy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah! The V13 can never be used as a learner wheel (Hi, @Josiah!). It is forbidden and impossible. Heavier than a dump truck. Got it.

My point is: a removable (or in the case of the V11, deflatable) suspension would solve two aspects that I found difficult when I learned: high pedals and springiness. If someone decided they could only purchase one wheel and it was the V13, so they were going to HAVE to learn on it, removing the suspension would help a lot IMHO.

And I haven't seen anything about how it rides without the suspension. The V12 is fun and enjoyable to ride. If someone gave me a V13, I'm 99% sure I'd take off the suspension at first, maybe for quite a while. Not everyone needs a suspension every time. It is nice to have the choice. That is a positive development that I hope InMotion continues in its upcoming smaller wheels. If they are allowed to be learning wheels by the EUC authorities, that is. LOL.

I am NOT anti-suspension. I'm just saying removable suspensions are good for some learners, and for some people who don't jump buses or ride down staircases.

One thing though: I also wonder where the cutoff on weight/tire diameter is for learning. The V11 minus suspension is more stable and easier to ride and learn on than the smaller V12. So why isn't the increased stability of the larger V13 (minus suspension) a plus for learning? There are many ways to learn, many ways to challenge yourself when learning, etc.

[techyiam]

24 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

Yeah, yeah, yeah! The V13 can never be used as a learner wheel (Hi, @Josiah!). It is forbidden and impossible. Heavier than a dump truck. Got it.

Didn't some generous soul lent him a smaller wheel to learn first. Something like five days before he got his V13?

I don't think he is an "average absolute beginner" learning on a V13. But his V13 did have suspension. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by techyiam

[techyiam]

30 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

So why isn't the increased stability of the larger V13 (minus suspension) a plus for learning? There are many ways to learn, many ways to challenge yourself when learning, etc.

Have you ever been on an Abrams? No suspension, 22" wheel. Denis Hagov said that it had the heaviest motor yet, when it first came out.

Edited May 21, 2023 by techyiam

[Gene Martin]

My first wheel was/is a Monster V2, and it is my current wheel. I rode up and down the hallway for 15 minutes twice a day for 4 days, and then just started riding. I do easy cruising on back country roads and some mowed pastures. The V2 is the perfect wheel for me, and I found it very easy to learn on. If I were to get another wheel, it would be a Monster pro. I don't want or need suspension, and the bigger wheels are a joy to cruise on. This is just me, so you do you!

Enjoy the ride!

[Paul D]

I started on a v11. I did a few thousand miles that riding season. I found it challenging but doable. I upgraded to the Sherman S and I rarely touch the v11 anymore. 
 

i have strong legs and when learning, I didn’t use walls or fences to help. I just forced myself to learn to balance. Lots of low speed crashes. 
 

I would not want to learn on the Sherman S or any heavy wheel. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Paul D

[UPONIT]

8 hours ago, techyiam said:

Didn't some generous soul lent him a smaller wheel to learn first. Something like five days before he got his V13?

I don't think he is an "average absolute beginner" learning on a V13. But his V13 did have suspension. 

You are correct. He is FAR above average. Didn't realize he had a smaller starter. Anyhoo...

[DPowell]

I am finding it hard to accelerate on my v13.  Just got it this week.  I find my OG Sherman the easiest to accelerate compared to my Master.   My Master is a little harder to get up to speed, but doable.  I've had to change my Master to medium pedal hardness to get to accelerate faster.

But the V13 is set up different in the menu.  How do you guys have your V13 set up for quick acceleration?

On mine, pedal hardness is set to 0% and no power assist settings.

 

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

10 minutes ago, DPowell said:

How do you guys have your V13 set up for quick acceleration?

I have pedal hardness 46% and accel. assist to 75% and brake assist to 60%. using grizzla flow pads.

[CDINPHX]

Well considering I am likely one of the riders the @Scubadragonsan is talking about, I would say the lack of knowledge is not the reason why some of us have chosen to learn on a larger wheel EUC is something I have been after for about 4 years now, I just felt the technology was not there yet for me to even consider wanting to ride one and I know what I am like, buy what you want out of the gate and don’t waste the time on the smaller wheel unless you know that is what you want.  The Sherman S was not my first riding experience, I have tried and ridden smaller wheels, I just never put any time into them as I didn’t like where the technology was and I knew after trying them they were not for me.  I have done this in every sport I have been involved in from when I was in my teens, learn on what you plan to use. I find it actually develops your skills a lot faster and has served me well, but that is me and i know I am also as stubborn as @Hellkitten and won’t turn away from a challenge nor back down.  

Now learning on a big wheel has disadvantages, it beat the crap out of my calves from holding onto tight and not going fast enough to stabilize the wheel so it pinballed around btw my legs on the day I didn’t wear my knee guards (they likely wouldn’t have helped regardless as they do not protect that part of the leg) and the learning curve is a lot steeper, but it is completely doable which I am proving wrong.  I am at 7hrs of riding time and 45kms of distance, today being the longest I have ridden yet (3.3kms continuous, 10km total), the wheel is kicking my butt, but I am making gains left right and centre on the wheel.  Others are having more difficulty with the larger wheels but they are continuing to push thru and will eventually get there.  It is not for everyone as we all have different athletic abilities and skills.

Only injuries I suffered was a bruised calves from day two and a pedal strike I got on day one when I slipped off the stock pedals and got caught on the back of the calve. That happens to a lot of new riders even with smaller wheels, two of my buddies being the same and one learned on a S18 the other I think as the smaller inmotion( you always see it on wrong ways videos when he is teaching someone)  Neither of which has stopped me from riding the wheel. If you were referring to the other person suffering injuries, I would agree they are having some difficulties controlling the wheel and has likely hurt their pride more then anything after their recent incident. I would also agree that a smaller wheel for them would have been a better choice, they will persevere though and will take as long as it takes to learn.  

What it comes down to is the individual person. Sometimes they just don’t know what they are capable of and bite of more then they can chew.  My thoughts still remain the same, support them no matter what as getting others out into the sport will only succeed to grow it and make it more accessible for other.  

 

 

[2disbetter]

I'm relatively new to EUCs. I started in Jan of this year. I have a V12 HT and V13. I started learning on the V12 HT without power pads, like everyone suggested. The difference between learning to ride on a smaller wheel is that I think you REALLY learn how to control the wheel, or rather the idea is better taught, that you CAN control the wheel. 

That said, many people said that the bigger wheel would be harder to learn. On the contrary I feel like the big wheel was easier. The real problem is that in the beginning you are VERY aware of just how heavy the wheel is. Depending on your physique and fitness levels it may be much more than you can really handle. That said if you can, then it is far more stable and that will really help you. Also you have a lot of room to grow on a wheel like the V13. Build quality is superior on the V13 then on all of their other wheels. This is another good point. 

Your question is striking on a much bigger question though, and that is, if I may be so bold, are the pros of heavier wheels really outweighing (pun intended) the cons?

These heavy wheels are really for the true speed freaks out there. Their size and weight make them kind of impractical for everyday commuting and shopping use. It is possible of course, but cumbersome, and maybe even impossible if you can't lift the wheel. 

Also with their weight and size comes more danger in the event of a crash. The V13 slamming into a bystander, would seriously maim or hurt someone. It could seriously hurt you as well. 

So I'll compare the V12 HT and the V13 to shine a bit more light on this: 

               V12 HT                 V13

Speeds: 36 mph                56 mph

Weight:  60 lbs                  110 lbs

One hand carry: yes         possible but extremely unlikely for 99% of the world's population

Range: honestly at slow speeds both should be pretty equal here

agility: superior               possible

suspension: no               yes

 

That being said, suspension at high speed is mandatory for safety. 

After having my crash, I would say that in a perfect world a smaller wheel is ideal. Not having suspension and being slower, helps one to not get cocky. They say that a motorcycle rider is most dangerous after they get comfortable on their ride. This is really true, and a wheel that keeps you humble could be the best thing for anyone. 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by 2disbetter

[Stevebee]

86mph! I hope not 🤕

[2disbetter]

2 hours ago, Stevebee said:

86mph! I hope not 🤕

More like not yet. Hahahaha. 

Yeah that was a typo, or more like the wheel's free spin speed. I fixed it. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by 2disbetter

[Cerbera]

23 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

I'm relatively new to UECs.

Just wanted to applaud the sheer poetry of that opening line

[mrelwood]

 

22 hours ago, UPONIT said:

That's an aspect of the V13 I haven't seen discussed much since it is "too big to be a beginner wheel." How does it ride with the suspension removed?

The reason it’s not talked about is that the general consensus seems to strongly indicate that it’s simply not worth it to use with the suspension removed. Kuji said so as well. There’s a good reason that ALL EUCs (excluding a few tiny Begodes) for the last two years are equipped with suspension.

22 hours ago, UPONIT said:

How much easier of a first wheel would it be with much lower pedals and no distracting bounciness?

The fact that you call it “bounciness” and ”springiness” sounds like you haven’t perhaps experienced other suspension wheels than the V11. The V11 suspension is unique in that it doesn’t have any dampening. ALL other suspension wheels do. The V11 is not very good for forming an opinion on suspension wheel behavior in general. They are not bouncy or springy, unless adjusted to the extremes for some reason.

22 hours ago, UPONIT said:

I hope suspensions continue to be removable or lockable on future InMotion wheels

I don’t think it will. Inmotion stopped shipping the locking components for the V13 because practically no one was using them. It doesn’t seem sensible to use work hours and other resources to implement a feature that will not be used.

All air shocks can be deflated of course. But one has to confirm that the end stop is such that it can continuously carry the rider’s weight.

21 hours ago, UPONIT said:

If someone decided they could only purchase one wheel and it was the V13

The V13 is a very extreme wheel in many regards. And even many experienced V13 owners wouldn’t consider it as their only wheel. I can’t fathom a situation where a beginner could have enough rightful information that they could make an informed decision to determine that the V13 was the wheel for them. In general it requires a lot of experience to be able to choose any wheel based on anything other than trial and error.

21 hours ago, UPONIT said:

If someone gave me a V13, I'm 99% sure I'd take off the suspension at first, maybe for quite a while.

I’d definitely suggest that you’d try it first though. You’d probably be surprised.

21 hours ago, UPONIT said:

Not everyone needs a suspension every time.

Suspension isn’t removable on scooters, bicycles (lockable for pedaling uphill on some, but not removable), motorcycles, or cars for a very good reason. The benefits far outweigh the cons. I don’t see how EUCs would be any different.

21 hours ago, UPONIT said:

It is nice to have the choice.

Not all advancements need choice though, especially if all it needs is getting comfy with it. Cars with electric windows don’t have an option to go manual, despite it would be nice to be able to be able to roll down the windows without turning on the ignition.

Suspension on EUCs is simply worth it. And learning on the one you’ll ride is not that bad of an idea either. I do recognize that learning with a suspension wheel may slow down learning some aspects of riding, but still, riding a non-suspension wheel is a slightly different set of skills. Why learn both of you’ll only use one?

21 hours ago, UPONIT said:

If they are allowed to be learning wheels by the EUC authorities, that is. LOL.

Take it that way if you will. Of course every wheel can be learned on, but the community does have quite a bit of collective knowledge on how much harder learning on a V13 sized or weighed wheel can be.

21 hours ago, UPONIT said:

The V11 minus suspension is more stable and easier to ride and learn on than the smaller V12.

Is it really?

21 hours ago, UPONIT said:

So why isn't the increased stability of the larger V13 (minus suspension) a plus for learning?

Of course it is. But it’s just one feature. The humongous weight, increased braking distance, required assertive user commands etc. outweigh the moderately increased stability.

[UniVehje]

On 5/21/2023 at 3:51 PM, UPONIT said:

So why isn't the increased stability of the larger V13 (minus suspension) a plus for learning?

Stability sounds like a positive word but it’s really just a description. You could also describe the same thing with words stiff and slow to turn. Depending what you use it for. Going straight and for long commutes the slow and stiff turning behavior feels good, hence the positive description of stable. You want it to be relaxed feeling. 
Same with the opposite: agile and responsive are positive words used for too lively or twitchy. Same things though. You might want agility if you need to make a lot of turns all the time. But if you mostly ride straight for long periods, lively and agile wheels get tiring quickly as you need to constantly be alert and manage the wheel. 
 

For learning agile wheels are usually better. For that you should read stable as slow to react and somewhat negative.