Need Advice after Weird Fall and Serious Injury

[redsnapper]

imo the nature of riding EUC ( or motorcycle or skiing etc. ) presents a set of inherent injury risks that just cannot be fully mitigated. the riding environments are so dynamic and organic that no amount of preparation (falling technique?) can really deal with reality. most euc riders will not have a serious fall but some unlucky folks will. good gear and vigilance while riding - watching for surface transitions, traction impediments,etc - will help. but I think bottom line just gotta accept the risks then let go and enjoy. i have fallen many times on snow/ice and gotten bruised and fallen at speed on a trail and dislocated my shoulder (with a long rehab). such is the nature of the activity. also a lower tire pressure creates a bigger contact patch and less gyro effect on EUC so riding at high PSI can have neg consequences for traction and maneuverability (at high speeds others can chime in). If you have been riding 3hrs a day for months then probs you don't need much coaching! we fall then we get up again and get back on the horse a little chastened but unbowed. go ez on yourself... as for age - if you can walk you can ride. so ride on!

Edited March 29, 2023 by redsnapper

[alcatraz]

I'm surprised at how quickly you discount the wheel. 

Did you do any recent calibration?

[slippyfeet]

I'm bias, but I inherently never trusted the V12HT 3 days into ownership. Firmware all updated, tried as much different settings as I could think up but it just felt incredibly latent, lumbering, unpredictable and rubbery between 0-12mph especially when switching to it from more nimble wheels.

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, slippyfeet said:

I'm bias, but I inherently never trusted the V12HT 3 days into ownership. Firmware all updated, tried as much different settings as I could think up but it just felt incredibly latent, lumbering, unpredictable and rubbery between 0-12mph especially when switching to it from more nimble wheels.

If you don't mind, can you share which were those more nimble wheels? 

Were you referring to your wheels listed in your profile?

If yes,

(1) then there is no question that the Mten4 would be more nimble, in fact, isn't the Mten4 the most nimble wheel that one can buy now.

(2) I got a T3 first then a V12. For me, there was an adjustment period to acclimate to the V12 from the T3. After 6 months to a year, I found the T3 no longer has any advantages over the V12, except for when it is time to carry it. Compared to the V12, the T3 felt borderline sketchy to ride. The V12 has gyro effects, and is a heavier wheel, it will take time and experience to get comfortable with it.

(3) No experience on the 18 XL.

I suspect you are going to find many of the bigger and heavier wheels even more cumbersome to ride initially than a V12.

Once you have been riding a 22", 100+ lbs wheels, and come to a V12, you will feel riding the V12 is like riding a toy. It will feel like the V12 is so nimble and easy to ride.

Edited March 29, 2023 by techyiam

[UPONIT]

12 hours ago, 2disbetter said:

I belong in this club as wheel. Also from a V12 HT. 3 weeks ago. I made a thread about it in the inmotion forum sub section. 

Basically my crash was wheel related. Doing about 28 mph when the kickstand mounting came loose and the stand went into my wheel well. I was launched like a rocket into my shoulder. (right shoulder) Like you I had a humorous fracture. Very clean break and only one break. No surgery was required and I've been in a brace for going on 3 weeks. 

It hurt like crazy though and I can't wait to get out of the sling and start rehab. 

Your break sounds just terrible! I'm really sorry you dealt with that. Like others have theorized, I think your fall was because of a loss of traction. Really bad luck! 

I hope you are healing well and back on your wheel in not time! 

Thank you for the well wishes. I read your thread with great interest and sympathy! The mechanisms of fractures are so complex. Fall one way: dislocation. Fall another: shattered humerus. Fall another way: sore fingers. My prescription to myself is to double my arm/shoulder workouts ASAP.

I agree 100% that it was a very painful break. And weird to feel your arm dangling loose with no structure. Adrenaline is a mighty painkiller, but when it wears off: yikes.

I kept forgetting to put up the kickstand when I first got the wheel and was afraid it was going to lead to disaster. So I made a little spacer out of Delrin. The kickstand can't get closer than about a half inch from the tire. Could still catch on a stair if I were a jumper, I guess.

Hopefully you are out of the splint soon and getting PT-ed back to full strength!

6 hours ago, alcatraz said:

I'm surprised at how quickly you discount the wheel. 

Did you do any recent calibration?

Maybe a few days before? And occasional experiment with pedal softness/hardness.

[UPONIT]

On 3/28/2023 at 8:19 AM, novazeus said:

yeah california is nuts to allow lane splitting. i would never do that. course i'd probably never ride in ca either. florida is just as bad now.

It is a hold-over from the days of air-cooled engines. Bikes needed to keep moving to keep air flowing so the engine didn't overheat. Waiting in traffic was harmful.

Now? Even though it happens mostly when traffic is at a standstill or moving extremely slowly, I wouldn't do it on any vehicle.

 

[slippyfeet]

8 hours ago, techyiam said:

If you don't mind, can you share which were those more nimble wheels? 

Were you referring to your wheels listed in your profile?

If yes,

(1) then there is no question that the Mten4 would be more nimble, in fact, isn't the Mten4 the most nimble wheel that one can buy now.

(2) I got a T3 first then a V12. For me, there was an adjustment period to acclimate to the V12 from the T3. After 6 months to a year, I found the T3 no longer has any advantages over the V12, except for when it is time to carry it. Compared to the V12, the T3 felt borderline sketchy to ride. The V12 has gyro effects, and is a heavier wheel, it will take time and experience to get comfortable with it.

(3) No experience on the 18 XL.

I suspect you are going to find many of the bigger and heavier wheels even more cumbersome to ride initially than a V12.

Once you have been riding a 22", 100+ lbs wheels, and come to a V12, you will feel riding the V12 is like riding a toy. It will feel like the V12 is so nimble and easy to ride.

Yes, I compare it mostly to the T3. Personally, I like how sketchy it rides.  It's also important to note that I don't use any power pads on my wheels. I'm short so low pedals and center of gravity are a big deal - I found that too much of the V12's weight sat on the upper half of my thighs while the T3 and 18XL are under my knees.
But to come back to the topic of this post, I didn't like the delayed starting and stopping feeling on the V12 even on 100% setting - whether its controller tuning, or the weight of the tire/ body. It was like the inertia of the wheel has a mind of its own at times, and compensating for it consistently is hard, I fell off to the side making an indecisive stop-go-stop movement when doing emergency movement practices on my driveway.  For my stature, difficult machine to control at slow speeds when coming from other wheels with twitchier input response.

[alcatraz]

Any history of blacking out?

Maybe the wheel sped out from under you. Who knows. I don't know why some V12 would do that.

I ask about the calibration because sometimes (on Begode at least) it screws up the angle limits. (when calibrating in cold temp)

What I mean by that is, if normal side lean cutout angles are 45deg (to either side) and it got set to 35 left and 55 right instead, you risk the wheel cutting out when making an unusually sharp left at 35 degrees. Also letting the wheel fall to the right could have the wheel spaz around more than usual, because the angle is off.

It's worth testing after a calibration I think. Lean the wheel sideways until it cuts out. It should be around the same for both sides. Take care not to do it at home as you could have bad luck and damage the floor/rug.

[alcatraz]

I've seen other weird behavior after calibration. Stuff to make the wheel unrideable. I nowadays avoid calibration because if it's working ok, then better not risk it. It's like saving a new balancing profile. I'd rather not take the risk of there being an error in the saved data. I'd only do it if there's need for it. Swapping control board, failsearching etc. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by alcatraz

[techyiam]

15 minutes ago, slippyfeet said:

I'm short so low pedals and center of gravity are a big deal - I found that too much of the V12's weight sat on the upper half of my thighs while the T3 and 18XL are under my knees.

I see. I have never ridden a wheel that is taller than my knee.

20 minutes ago, slippyfeet said:

But to come back to the topic of this post, I didn't like the delayed starting and stopping feeling on the V12 even on 100% setting - whether its controller tuning, or the weight of the tire/ body. It was like the inertia of the wheel has a mind of its own at times, and compensating for it consistently is hard, I fell off to the side making an indecisive stop-go-stop movement when doing emergency movement practices on my driveway. 

You are quite right in that the T3 response is more immediate. But, I think with practice you can adapt to it.

If you can't, wouldn't you be limited to very few wheels that you can upgrade to?

It took me a very long while to adapt to the V12 from my T3. The harder skills to develop were not putting a foot down at stop signs or intersections where the sightlines are short, and emergency maneuvering and quick reactionary counter response.

I doing all over again moving from the V12 to the Abrams. The Abrams is a much bigger wheel than the V12. Ditto weight. It is taking time too.

[mrelwood]

On 3/28/2023 at 6:56 AM, UPONIT said:

My attraction to the V13 is that its motor would never struggle or feel sketchy going up the extremely steep hills around my neighborhood and city.

Don’t buy yourself a V13. Based on what you’ve posted, it doesn’t sound like a good choice for you.

 The larger the tire, the further you need to lean to accelerate. This is especially relevant on steep inclines. The V13 would require a lot more effort to get up a steep hill than any 18/20” EUC would. Yes it has a lot of power, but accessing it requires a lot of work. The V13 (and other 22+ inch wheels) is most naturally fitted to long range cruising on level ground at a bit higher speeds.

 Also, while the specs are mesmerizing on paper, the instant low speed torque might not be very prevalent on the V13. Again because a lot of it lost on the tire diameter, but also because WrongWay was underwhelmed by the instant torque of his V13 unit. Though some people have commented that they can’t ankle flick their V13 the same way no matter how hard they try, so there could’ve been an issue with WrongWay’s unit.

2023 is the year of 12” rim sizes (16x3 size class). If I had to constantly ride up steep paved hills, this is exactly the size group I’d be looking at, despite being 193cm tall and weighing 105kg + gear. They’re like the V12’s but with suspension. The Veteran Patton for example: very powerful, nimble compared to most 18/20” and larger wheels, requires less effort to ride up hills, and still unavoidably stable due to the surprisingly large weight (39kg) for it’s size. Inmotion and KingSong are expected to have similarly sized wheels out this year as well.

[UPONIT]

11 hours ago, slippyfeet said:

I'm short so low pedals and center of gravity are a big deal
But to come back to the topic of this post, I didn't like the delayed starting and stopping feeling on the V12 even on 100% setting 
It was like the inertia of the wheel has a mind of its own at times
I fell off to the side making an indecisive stop-go-stop movement when doing emergency movement practices on my driveway.  For my stature, difficult machine to control at slow speeds when coming from other wheels with twitchier input response.

I'm not short, but your description there is almost EXACTLY how I would characterize what was going on when I fell off in the 8 o'clock direction. I was being indecisive, or taking too long to make a decision. I had the approaching intersection, with one direction blind. So I was slowing down, thinking whether to stop or go up on sidewalk or just risk going into the empty (I hoped) road and then thinking consciously "I can look back over my shoulder that far and see."

I've had moments before on the V12 (and I think I've even read about it here on the forums re: EUCs in general) where "indecisiveness" can be a problem. I remember hesitating before going over some gnarly root bumps and getting a bad feeling like "if I don't just go for it, I'm gonna fall." That time, I just went for it, and it was fine, but the feeling stuck with me. My takeaway was: you have to have made your decision before you get too close, or else the thinking itself might cause a problem.

Does that makes sense? Thanks a lot for your post! I'm not sure I'm describing my problem well enough, but it seems like a similar combination of thinking and action.

[UPONIT]

@mrelwood Maybe the V14 will have the InMotion solidness, build-quality and safety systems that I like, combined with higher power and smaller wheel size for hill-climbing torque?

And by the time it comes out, I will have recovered confidence and have XX months more experience...

[Czestnut]

I feel you OP. I’m 55 and my MSP cut out when I banked on the quarter pipe at the skate park. I didnt know my new wheel had a 45 degree cutout feature u like my previous wheels. Pretty much did an elbow drop, and took a year to heal. 

[UPONIT]

On 3/30/2023 at 4:18 PM, Czestnut said:

I feel you OP. I’m 55 and my MSP cut out when I banked on the quarter pipe at the skate park. I didnt know my new wheel had a 45 degree cutout feature u like my previous wheels. Pretty much did an elbow drop, and took a year to heal. 

Wow! That's a long recovery. Hopefully you are fully recovered and pain-free now!

What did you do to rehab yourself and prepare to ride again? I'd appreciate hearing about that process, mental and physical.

Did you wait the entire year before getting back on a wheel?

Thank you very much for posting the X-Rays of the implant they used. Looks like your fracture was lower on your arm, and wasn't a spiral fracture. Was there much discussion about surgery vs. splinting? Was the implant the reason for 12 month healing? My doctor has been giving me an estimate of 6 months minimum before "contact sports."

Thanks again for sharing your experience. It's good to get perspective from a fellow EUC rider. Hope all's well with you!

 

[Czestnut]

On 4/2/2023 at 4:23 AM, UPONIT said:

Wow! That's a long recovery. Hopefully you are fully recovered and pain-free now!

What did you do to rehab yourself and prepare to ride again? I'd appreciate hearing about that process, mental and physical.

Did you wait the entire year before getting back on a wheel?

Thank you very much for posting the X-Rays of the implant they used. Looks like your fracture was lower on your arm, and wasn't a spiral fracture. Was there much discussion about surgery vs. splinting? Was the implant the reason for 12 month healing? My doctor has been giving me an estimate of 6 months minimum before "contact sports."

Thanks again for sharing your experience. It's good to get perspective from a fellow EUC rider. Hope all's well with you!

 

They first decided that they will cast me up, and take it off after 6 weeks. I asked why not surgery with a plate? They said they want to make it as unobtrusive as possible. I was right. At my age, we don’t heal like younger people.  My arm was still wobbly like a rapala fishing lure or nunchuck if you will. So 6 weeks wasted resulting in lots of muscle atrophy. My bicep was smaller than my wife’s at this point. I had use of my arm right after surgery. So the year I mentioned was the total time it took me to feel ok with the arm with household chores.  I’m only starting soft all this summer finally, but I did start riding the next spring after the unfortunate summer.  I’m still doing free weights several times a week to get my strength back. Where I do feel hesitant and fearful that I won’t ever do again is off-road wheeling. I’m afraid of risking breaking the arm again as we aren’t getting older!