Are we a dying breed in Europe / UK ?

[techyiam]

On 11/30/2022 at 11:11 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

 

EUC's aren't legal in Canada either. We tend to be ignored if we're riding responsibly but that's not guaranteed.

This is also true in Canada, but only because of provincial laws. In the Canada Motor Vehicle Traffic Safety Act (federal law), electric wheels are not regulated, and therefore, are not illegal in Canada).

But, I suspect the enforcement is more lax in Canada. Also, some of the ticketed riders managed to avoid having to pay fines.

My personal experience has been very positive. I have come across many police officers, but none have ever hinted to me that I was doing something illegal. I think they are treating me as a one wheel e-scooter, and making an exception. 

Although, I have ridden in traffic on main roads riding at speed of traffic, I have never encounter any police officers during those times.

Just yesterday I was on a residential side street waiting for traffic to clear at a stop sign. A police cruiser happened to be driving by on the main road. But nothing happened. Plus I almost always ride past a police community station, and very frequently, there is an occupied police vehicle parked outside. I have never been stopped.

On 11/30/2022 at 11:11 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

I think the market for effective city commuters is fairly common across the world but the current trend is for all wheels to be expensive, complicated, fast and heavy - certainly not something I could wheel into an office without security asking me to take it out. 

I just got the hundred lbs. Abrams. It is a big heavy wheel. But it was deeply discounted. To my surprise, it rides very much like a V12 when equipped with effective power pads, except when you have to lift it, leaned too far over from vertical when stationary (or at less than 4 km/h), or trying to do a U-turn in the width of a standard sidewalk. Oh, and in acceleration and braking. I am still hoping that I will be able to acclimatise to it, and replace the V12 with it. With a bit more experience, I even find rolling the Abrams up and down steps not much more difficult than with the V12.

I think in the US especially, but maybe even in Canada, there is a market for big heavy fast wheels.

Edited December 2, 2022 by techyiam

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

After 10,000 signatures, petitions get a response from the government.

After 100,000 signatures, petitions are considered for debate in Parliament.

If, by some miracle we had anything like 10,000 EUCers in the UK, the response from government would be a very polite but firm 'No, fuck off'.

And we are so ludicrously far short on reaching the other number we'd never get there before there is a change of government anyway !

Edited November 30, 2022 by Cerbera

[Paul A]

3 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

10,000 EUCers in the UK,

Don't need 10k signatures solely from EUC riders.

Likely to be more electric scooter owners.  

Partner with them. 

It affects both groups.

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

It affects both groups.

No it doesn't - there are already scooter pilot schemes all over the UK in various test cities - they already have the numbers on their side ! And even now the confiscations are almost exclusively kids caught riding them dangerously on London roads, sometimes in areas where these schemes exist and safe scootering in the right places is even (begrudgingly) 'encouraged' (to the limited extent that they ever encourage anything other than strict adherence to law !). Of course there will be some EUC exceptions, and horrible consequences for the unluckiest of us who happen to encounter an officer in a bad mood or who just wants to apply the law to the max because they can.

The problem is that we are NOT considered the same as them, but it's worse because whereas we should be considered in a SAFER and LESS dangerous class than that sort of PEV, we are actually considered worse, because of the self-balancing aspect, and so find ourselves excluded from all pilot PEV schemes and insurance as far as I am aware...

It is unbelievably difficult to convince people that we need 3500 watt motors for balance, safety and headroom rather than for pure speed - they want to limit all motor power on walkways to 300 watts FFS, if they allow it at all ! What chance do we have with modern machines ? And yet they won't let them on roads either !

We are stuck, out on our own, between a proverbial rock and a hard place.

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Cerbera

[Funky]

2 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Just as a quick aside, for those that know, what happens when you want to wheel your Winter studded EUCs into shops ? I bet they love that, and what noise does it make on their hard floors ?!

It goes like this tuk-tuk-tuk-tuk.  Each stud makes sound.  The faster you move the euc, the faster the sound goes.  

[Cerbera]

58 minutes ago, Funky said:

It goes like this tuk-tuk-tuk-tuk.  Each stud makes sound.  The faster you move the euc, the faster the sound goes.  

Lols. I can see that going down well at the library, or in those posh shops with expensive wooden / or carpeted floors ! Scratchy scratchy, rippy rippy !  Yet I'm damned if I'm leaving that outside !

Edited November 30, 2022 by Cerbera

[Funky]

10 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Lols. I can see that going down well at the library, or in those posh shops with expensive wooden / or carpeted floors ! Scratchy scratchy, rippy rippy !  Yet I'm damned if I'm leaving that outside !

Dad pushes his studded wheel daily on wood floor. Can't see any damage.. Studs vs no studs - sound difference is very big.

Each stud has rubber between them, so the studs only make more or less sound.. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Funky

[Cerbera]

55 minutes ago, Funky said:

Dad pushes his studded wheel daily on wood floor. Can't see any damage.. Studs vs no studs - sound difference is very big.

Oh that's good. But over here in the UK they're not gonna like anything that makes loud clacking noises or draws attention to itself. Fortunately it's a moot point - we get snow and ice for about 2 weeks of the year if we are lucky, so probably not worth studding my tyre just yet.

[Funky]

8 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Oh that's good. But over here in the UK they're not gonna like anything that makes loud clacking noises or draws attention to itself. Fortunately it's a moot point - we get snow and ice for about 2 weeks of the year if we are lucky, so probably not worth studding my tyre just yet.

Same noise level as taking pen and hitting it on desk.. Not lifting wrist of said desk. Simply go up and down. (Medium speed..)  Now you know how it sounds.  

We get snow and all that "goodness" for about 2-3 months.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Funky

[Freeforester]

19 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Lols. I can see that going down well at the library, or in those posh shops with expensive wooden / or carpeted floors ! Scratchy scratchy, rippy rippy !  Yet I'm damned if I'm leaving that outside !

With regard to the earlier comments, you may feel differently in the event of the shop having security, or calling the police?

Discretion is the better part of valour. 
 

In Scotland it’s not clear what the policy is: Exhibit a: ScotGov issued Covid 19 routemap:

 

 

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Freeforester said:

With regard to the earlier comments, you may feel differently in the event of the shop having security, or calling the police?

Oh yes, I am certainly not out to antagonise, and wouldn't intentionally do anything that could conceivably get the police called. I just wouldn't go to those places on a wheel, and come back on foot later if I really need to go in...

 

[mrelwood]

9 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Just as a quick aside, for those that know, what happens when you want to wheel your Winter studded EUCs into shops ? I bet they love that, and what noise does it make on their hard floors ?!

The noise is reminiscent of a dog walking as their nails hit the floor. EUC is of course constant, without the steps.

 There are racing spikes that might make scratches on the floor especially if you’d turn the wheel while stationary. But if you’re using flat top studs spaced reasonably and less at the center of the tire, it’s relatively easy to trolley the wheel in a way that makes no scratches.

[Paul A]

9 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Yet I'm damned if I'm leaving that outside !

 

Some venues have cloakrooms that an EUC could be stored safely.

Art galleries, museums, etc.

Leave the wheel turned on, so that it is easy for the cloak room attendants to move the wheel in and out.

The wheel will stay upright in the cloak room.

[Funky]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

 

Some venues have cloakrooms that an EUC could be stored safely.

Art galleries, museums, etc.

Leave the wheel turned on, so that it is easy for the cloak room attendants to move the wheel in and out.

The wheel will stay upright in the cloak room.

Attendant steals it. 

 

It's his last job day, before quieting. He's lifestyle has gotten so mundane and boring. 

He sees the wheel. And thoughts to himself: This must be a sign for change.

Takes off with the wheel. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Funky

[Cerbera]

5 hours ago, Paul A said:

Leave the wheel turned on, so that it is easy for the cloak room attendants to move the wheel in and out.

Bloody hell mate - you are waaaay more trusting than me !  I'd be disconnecting the batteries and arming a 160db movement alarm so it stayed exactly where it was put, IF I let it out of my sight at all. I can just about manage to leave it somewhere for a dentist appointment or something but if I had to go watch a play for example, it would be all I was thinking about for the full 2 hours !! Nope, if I ever need the library or want to spend the day in an art gallery I'll just take the car...

Edited December 1, 2022 by Cerbera

[Robse]

36 minutes ago, Funky said:

He sees the wheel. And thoughts to himself: This must be a sign for change.

Takes off with the wheel. 

when he turns left in the driveway without complying with his right of way, he is run over by an ambulance...

[Cerbera]

59 minutes ago, Robse said:

when he turns left in the driveway without complying with his right of way, he is run over by an ambulance...

Let's not forget - he's tried to get on a Master, presumably with zero riding XP. What's actually gonna happen there is that he's gonna fall flat on his face in the lobby, and the wheel is going to juggernaut its way through whatever glass panelling happens to be close by, and then explode 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Cerbera

[Robse]

3 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Let's not forget - he's tried to get on a Master, presumably with zero riding XP. What's actually gonna happen there is that he's gonna fall flat on his face in the lobby, and the wheel is going to juggernaut its way through whatever glass panelling happens to be close by, and then explode 

The Gotway dance

[Cerbera]

I will add 'either way I'm gonna wish I'd taken the car'

Edited December 1, 2022 by Cerbera

[Funky]

Who was talking about riding off... He simply left the gallery with his new briefcase.

[Cerbera]

57 minutes ago, Funky said:

He simply left the gallery with his new briefcase.

He must have been forgetting about my electrified trolley handle

[Mono]

9 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Interesting video by MADpack [...]

who seems to suggest that nominal Voltage represents power, admittedly presented with a pretty decent production value.

Did I miss something or did he provide any data showing market trends which could indicate that EUCs are "dying" in Europe (i.e. a trend beyond normal seasonal changes)? The observation that manufacturers can effort to create new models in such quick succession and the growing amount of retailers seems not to suggest a lack of customers or revenue, but maybe these are all Americans, right? RIGHT?

Looks like click bating to me.

[Funky]

44 minutes ago, Mono said:

who seems to suggest that nominal Voltage represents power, admittedly presented with a pretty decent production value.

Did I miss something or did he provide any data showing market trends which could indicate that EUCs are "dying" in Europe (i.e. a trend beyond normal seasonal changes)? The observation that manufacturers can effort to create new models in such quick succession and the growing amount of retailers seems not to suggest a lack of customers or revenue, but maybe these are all Americans, right? RIGHT?

Looks like click bating to me.

He had some good points. Like big/heavy wheels are pointless in "some" countries.

We don't need them in mine country. Mostly cause our cities are small and individual cities are connected with highway. Where you need to go ~90km/h speeds. We simply ride sidewalks - going whatever speeds we want. Doubt anyone would ride 25mph++ on sidewalks. Range also isn't needed much, because of said small cities. So getting big wheels are simply waste here. Also ease of carrying it around in public transport. - Again highways, you won't be riding there.

I personally have seen only small wheels under 20kg and such in the wild. 25-40km/h speeds are perfect here. (I personally like riding at 35-40km/h)

As for season changes - that's natural, as most riders go into winter sleep. But there are some who ride whole year round. No matter what weather is outside.

 

Don't forget as more wheels are made, the retailers who choose to sell "new" models. Also need to repair them, etc.. Meaning they need to have some parts for those wheels on hand. Most retailers choose some models - that they think would sell the best and stick to them. Selling all available models would be overwhelming.. At some point they could start losing money.

Ofc you can talk to them and maybe they "order" a special model just for you. But you need to wait ~6 months to get it..

Edited December 1, 2022 by Funky

[Mono]

On 12/1/2022 at 5:36 PM, Funky said:

Don't forget as more wheels are made, the retailers who choose to sell "new" models. Also need to repair them, etc.. Meaning they need to have some parts for those wheels on hand. [...] Selling all available models would be overwhelming.

That looks like a signature for a HUGE or growing market. So I guess, that's your message, business is growing too quickly and should slow down 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Mono

[Funky]

26 minutes ago, Mono said:

That looks like a signature for a HUGE or growing market. So I guess, that's your message, business is growing too quickly and should slow down 

Nah. My point was - retailers can't simply sell all ever released wheels. (Specially walk in stores.) They will cherry pick some models. Like in my local shop - i would be amazed to see them sell something like V13. No one would ever buy it here.. (Maybe it will sell someday. But i have my doubts.)

I personally love options to choose from, more wheels - the better. But sadly nothing "good" has been released past 3 years.. (I like small/light. Good build quality.)

Edited December 2, 2022 by Funky