Mten4 from Ewheels (600 Wh/40T) vs Mten4 from other vendors (750 Wh)

[SanDiegoGuy]

I want to order the Mten4 but I have a dilemma of where to get it from.  At Ewheels, the Mten4 comes with the 600 Wh 40T battery variant that they touted as being safer.  However, at all other vendors, the Mten4 is fitted with the 750 Wh battery.  The 750 Wh battery would probably give longer range.

With the Begode history of battery fires (in the past but rarely in the present now) in mind, where would you buy the Mten4 if you are in the market to get one?  Ewheels or other vendors?

[meepmeepmayer]

Is there a price difference?

Usually I would never trade battery size for something else, but I believe for this wheel it makes sense. The high discharge cells will give you greater peak performance/overlean protection on this 2p battery, and while you will have less range, is the mten really the wheel you would use to its full range capacity and notice the range difference?

If the prices are the same I vote 40T. Why not! If the 40T costs more you have to know whether it's worth it.

[houseofjob]

44 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Is there a price difference?

Usually I would never trade battery size for something else, but I believe for this wheel it makes sense. The high discharge cells will give you greater peak performance/overlean protection on this 2p battery, and while you will have less range, is the mten really the wheel you would use to its full range capacity and notice the range difference?

If the prices are the same I vote 40T. Why not! If the 40T costs more you have to know whether it's worth it.

Seems it's breaking down to stock MTen4 750Wh (I'm assuming 50E) is $1099 USD, eWheels 40T 600Wh version is $1,150 USD. 

Per imrbatteries.com retail prices:

40T's are $5.25/cell bulk rate over 24-49 cell order, so 40 cells is $210 USD

50E's are $6.75/cell bulk rate over 24-49 cell order, so 40 cells is $270 USD

... so 40 cells of 40T's cost retail $60 USD more than 40 50E's, and eWheels 40T config is adding about ~ +$50 to the price, so no real upcharge from a pure cell cost / wheel cost perspective, if these MTen4 config prices hold, not too shabby 

 

2 hours ago, SanDiegoGuy said:

I want to order the Mten4 but I have a dilemma of where to get it from.  At Ewheels, the Mten4 comes with the 600 Wh 40T battery variant that they touted as being safer.  However, at all other vendors, the Mten4 is fitted with the 750 Wh battery.  The 750 Wh battery would probably give longer range.

With the Begode history of battery fires (in the past but rarely in the present now) in mind, where would you buy the Mten4 if you are in the market to get one?  Ewheels or other vendors?

It's really personal preference IMHO. And I throw out the battery fire argument here because all those incidents were tied to the LG M50LT cell choice (esp in lower 4p parallel configs), and I have said many times on various socials: based on the Mooch M50 / similar variant battery tests, this cell is not suitable for high amp high temp PEV scenarios, full stop; it decreases dramatically in amp discharge output capacity as it heats up even at moderately high temps.

 

So I would say either config is a suitable option, no need for fire concern (also, this is still a 84V wheel mind you, not the more demanding 100V wheels in those Gotway fire incidents) it just depends on what you are looking from this wheel.

Range is the obvious difference, but you also need to realize, much of that regular 750Wh config range is gonna feel mighty weak towards the latter ~25% and below of the battery (as @meepmeepmayer states), because Samsung 50E's are 1/4 of the rated amp capacity of the 40T, and you only have 2 packs in parallel for the MTen4 in general (regardless of battery cell config), so less "horses" to share that load, and the 50E is the "less strong horse" type.

I hate this kind of slower and weaker "limp home" range, I usually throw that out of my real range consideration, would rather stop to charge before limping home riding at sub 15mph. So more than this deceptive range number, I would rather have the wheel be rated for less, but feel more robust throughout more of the entirety of the battery lifespan, which is what the 40T's do, and I didn't have any second thoughts on choosing the eWheels 40T option, I'll pick higher amp cell config every time for low parallel count wheels like the MTen4, that could use some of that extra amp firepower to guard against voltage sag and weakening into overlean cutout sub-50% battery range.

Edited September 14, 2022 by houseofjob

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

And I throw out the battery fire argument here because all those incidents were tied to the LG M50LT cell choice

So far, only the LG M50T are confirmed bad, the LG M50LT (the M50T successor) seem to be fine. But either is moot if the regular version uses the Samsung 50E.

Agreed otherwise. No need to fear a fire with either version - 50E or 40T.

-

I think with $50 difference the 40T version is worth it. If only the mten4 was a bit cheaper overall.

[houseofjob]

3 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I think with $50 difference the 40T version is worth it. If only the mten4 was a bit cheaper overall.

I think this might be more due to inflation and/or supply shock, in the current macro economic environment.

I'm sure as a manufacturer or distributor, the MTen series sells more units when it's under the $1k USD threshold.

[chanman]

Imo this is a perfect application of a high power pack, small pack that you want to be very capable for maximum fun and safety, while long range isn't really the goal.

[jtm94]

I wouldn't trade range on such a small wheel. I don't think this thing will be drawing extreme amps during normal use, maybe if you only get it to be a trick/freestyle wheel it could be a good idea.

[chanman]

"extreme amps" is relative to the size of the battery. you might not draw 45A sustained on this, but 15A on this is equivalent to the 45A on a 6P wheel from the individual cell's perspective.

Edited September 15, 2022 by chanman

[Tawpie]

On 9/14/2022 at 8:30 PM, jtm94 said:

I wouldn't trade range on such a small wheel. I don't think this thing will be drawing extreme amps during normal use, maybe if you only get it to be a trick/freestyle wheel it could be a good idea.

Then again, there's that seam in the pavement I hit on my MTen3 at 46% and 14 mph that ended up scarring my Leatts pretty good. If didn't crap out on me, it would probably have dinged the batteries instead. Maybe it did anyway. I'd always go for higher current cells myself.

Besides, the tiny wheel isn't meant for going places so as long as it doesn't embarrass you in front of a OneWheel…

[RagingGrandpa]

I own 512wh MTen3, with its cells similar in discharge rating to Samsung 50E.
(50E is larger of course, but the discharge rating is similar to Sanyo GA.)

With MTen3, voltage sag during acceleration with is a real problem. It can cause you to pedal-dip and crash. I've bled.

500wh is a sweet spot for this class of EUC. I've never wanted to stand on it for longer than 500wh worth of distance. And at a lazy bicycle pace, you'll easily match or go farther than the lazy bicycle riders you're riding with  
600wh is better still. 
And 750wh won't make a difference in how you use it.

I vote 600wh 40T.
 

Edited September 16, 2022 by RagingGrandpa

[xorbe]

On 9/14/2022 at 4:48 PM, houseofjob said:

so 40 cells of 40T's cost retail $60 USD more than 40 50E's, and eWheels 40T config is adding about ~ +$50 to the price, so no real upcharge from a pure cell cost / wheel cost perspective, if these MTen4 config prices hold, not too shabby 

Like, the data you posted right above that is the exact opposite ... eWheels is $50 more with a $60 cheaper battery.  I would still go with the 40T cells, I don't endurance ride my MTen3.

[M640x]

On 9/14/2022 at 2:42 PM, SanDiegoGuy said:

I want to order the Mten4 but I have a dilemma of where to get it from.  At Ewheels, the Mten4 comes with the 600 Wh 40T battery variant that they touted as being safer.  However, at all other vendors, the Mten4 is fitted with the 750 Wh battery.  The 750 Wh battery would probably give longer range.

With the Begode history of battery fires (in the past but rarely in the present now) in mind, where would you buy the Mten4 if you are in the market to get one?  Ewheels or other vendors?

I'm personally going to get the 300wh version with the 40T cells.  I've owned other mtens and use them for slow riding and messing around and usually only go 5 or 6 miles total.  For my use case it makes no sense to buy a bigger one.  With that said, I'd go with the ones that have the 40T cells.  I agree with Meep... & House... per safety and performance.  The 40T's have a 35A discharge rating while the 50E's have a 9.8A rating.

Edited May 16, 2023 by M640x

[slippyfeet]

I personally use my 750wh mten4 for social outings (eg. pokemon go), taking out the trash at work, pushing a lawn mower, etc.
500 miles in, zero problems. I do have my first alarm at 20mph, which I rarely ever touch. I'll use my other wheels if I need to cover distance.  

[M640x]

18 hours ago, slippyfeet said:

I personally use my 750wh mten4 for social outings (eg. pokemon go), taking out the trash at work, pushing a lawn mower, etc.
500 miles in, zero problems. I do have my first alarm at 20mph, which I rarely ever touch. I'll use my other wheels if I need to cover distance.  

Exactly.  : )