Vaxxes are no EUCs!

[Paul A]

North Korea has refused vaccines.

Covid outbreak currently spreading like wildfire.

ttps://www.bbc.com/news/61508440

 

[Freeforester]

3 hours ago, LanghamP said:

I caught Covid-19 last week on Wednesday, and it was grim, possibly the sickest I've been in my life...and I'm vaccinated and boosted. Of particular concern was how very difficult it was to do even the simplest things at the height of my illness. I was trying to get back into my house and have great difficulty trying to figure out which key to put into my house lock. And of course I had just drove...go figure. Now this brain fog only lasted about a day.

Anti-vaxers (or, more accurately, vectors of disease) are trying to beat this without modern medication and that seems most unwise to me. The death rate between a vaxed versus and unvaxed person is about 61:1. Smokers and anti-vaxers pair up well with each other; they're more likely to be poor and uneducated. Don't be that person.

Interesting that you don’t recognise the correlation between increased levels of illness and multiple vaccinations in mass vaccinated populations, but not perhaps surprisingly, given how ADE and T-cell exhaustion are both currently ‘discounted’ by ‘the consensus’.    Time will tell whether or not the virus will be pressured into evolving into a more pathogenic variant, much the same as it has been pressed into becoming a more infectious (vaccine escaping variant) as is now the case with omicron. But it is obviously equally the case that the ‘vaccinated’ pass on a vaccine-escaping virus, no?
 

This is precisely the point of Dr Vanden Bossche’s discussion and where it will lead the masses. But hey, it’s your call. You have the absolute right to take whatever measure you think will be of benefit to you. 

[Tawpie]

25 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

China has the lowest rate at under 6000 confirmed deaths.

How your rulers rule makes a difference, some countries with similar systems of government are devoid of homosexuals.

[LanghamP]

2 hours ago, Freeforester said:

This is precisely the point of Dr Vanden Bossche’s discussion and where it will lead the masses. But hey, it’s your call. You have the absolute right to take whatever measure you think will be of benefit to you. 

I don't wear, and didn't wear, a mask at all when I tested myself positive last week (yah, free tests via UPS). I even purposefully went out to grocery stores when I was most infectious, as I think it's my honorable duty to infect as many anti-vaxxers as possible. If "those people" haven't been vaxxed by now by being willfully ignorant, then more power to them but that also means I won't do anything considerate to keep my wormy germies to myself.

Until you use your real name, and have some medical degree, then you sound like a person who thinks they can do something when they have no clue on how to do it. Like a guy who thinks he can play the guitar after 2 hours of lessons, and then tries to jam with, well, anyone. Or some guy who has basic algebra who then tries to lecture a physicist.

There's always the guy who doesn't know shit but can't admit it. It's ok not to know something, but it's not ok to not know something and tell others you know about something. Don't be that guy.

[LanghamP]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

How your rulers rule makes a difference, some countries with similar systems of government are devoid of homosexuals.

Proper Christian countries kill homosexuals in no uncertain terms. Fortunately for my gay friends, the US isn't a Christian nation, and even has explicitly saying it isn't a religious nation.

• "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Leviticus 20 verse 13^[12]

[Freeforester]

24 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Until you use your real name, and have some medical degree, then you sound like a person who thinks they can do something when they have no clue on how to do it. Like a guy who thinks he can play the guitar after 2 hours of lessons, and then tries to jam with, well, anyone. Or some guy who has basic algebra who then tries to lecture a physicist.

There's always the guy who doesn't know shit but can't admit it. It's ok not to know something, but it's not ok to not know something and tell others you know about something. Don't be that guy.

    

  'Tis with our judgments as our watches, none
Go just alike, yet each believes his own.
In poets as true genius is but rare,
True taste as seldom is the critic's share;
Both must alike from Heav'n derive their light,
These born to judge, as well as those to write.
Let such teach others who themselves excel,
And censure freely who have written well.
Authors are partial to their wit, 'tis true,
But are not critics to their judgment too?

Content, if hence th' unlearn'd their wants may view,
The learn'd reflect on what before they knew:
Careless of censure, nor too fond of fame,
Still pleas'd to praise, yet not afraid to blame,
Averse alike to flatter, or offend,
Not free from faults, nor yet too vain to mend.

[Tawpie]

don't get me started on religion, it's not worth it.

We all get the information our rulers want us to get, that which serves their needs and goals. Sometimes those needs and goals align with the greater good, other times they're biased to the personal ambitions of the powerful. One of the best and most dangerous things about the US is that we've decided that the rulers aren't supposed to keep us from saying what's on our mind—even when it goes against the power structure (provided of course, it's not sedition). Freedom of the press, speech, and religion provide all of the tools we need to set us at each others' throats… I think the FSB understands this very well.

And make no mistake, in the US we have domestic propaganda just like everywhere else in the world. Sadly, far too often we're agonizingly slow to recognize it for what it is.

[Paul A]

https://www.snopes.com/news/2021/03/26/geert-vanden-bossche/

26 March 2021

Geert Vanden Bossche Stokes Fear of COVID-19 Vaccine To Promote His Own Flawed ‘Solution’

 

Anti-vaccine activists are promoting a veterinarian's claim that the only way to prevent a future COVID-19 vaccination-related calamity is through a product he claims to have invented.

 

On March 6, 2021, a Belgian veterinarian named Geert Vanden Bossche published an open letter “to all authorities, scientists and experts around the world” asserting that, in his expert analysis, the current global COVID-19 vaccination program will “wipe out large parts of our human population.”

 

The way to avoid this purported calamity, Vanden Bossche asserts, is for scientists to pay more attention to his own invention — a “universal vaccine” that uses the body’s innate immune system to kill SARS-CoV-2.

 

Perhaps no more tired a trope exists in the world of faux cures than the “I have found a problem that no other scientist in the world has thought of and only my untested and unproven cure can stop it” gambit. 

 

 Vanden Bossche has been able to avoid allegations of peddling such a cure — at least in the credulous anti-vaccine community — because his resume legitimately includes stints at companies or initiatives involved in vaccine development, including The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

 

Since 2014, however, he has been trying (apparently unsuccessfully) to develop his so-called universal vaccine. A company claiming to develop such a product is currently registered to an address identified on Yelp as his veterinary practice. 

__________

 

https://subjectguides.library.american.edu/News-Literacy

Snopes an independent, nonpartisan website run by professional researcher and writer David Mikkelson researches urban legends and other rumors. It is often the first to set the facts straight on wild fake news claims.

[Freeforester]

Meanwhile, in Minnesota…

 

As Froude suggested, ‘we may, all of us, be sitting in judgment of matters of which we know but little’…

Edited May 20, 2022 by Freeforester

[Paul A]

Pointless to continuously debunk theories.

Anti vaxxers will continuously cite others.

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Pointless to continuously debunk theories.

Anti vaxxers will continuously cite others.

I rather enjoy anti-vaxxers. They say stupid things, then prove it by dying in droves from whatever they don't believe in. Or they get injured.

This is my favorite anti-vaxxer meme.

[goatman]

so a member gets covid after being triple jabbed and has a brilliant idea and hops in its car and goes wandering around grocery stores trying to infect others then on its worst day when it cant even figure out what key goes where decides to hop in its car and go for a drive.

do you drive drunk for shits and giggles too?

what a piece of work you are.

[Jswizzy84]

11 hours ago, LanghamP said:

I caught Covid-19 last week on Wednesday, and it was grim, possibly the sickest I've been in my life...and I'm vaccinated and boosted. Of particular concern was how very difficult it was to do even the simplest things at the height of my illness. I was trying to get back into my house and have great difficulty trying to figure out which key to put into my house lock. And of course I had just drove...go figure. Now this brain fog only lasted about a day.

Anti-vaxers (or, more accurately, vectors of disease) are trying to beat this without modern medication and that seems most unwise to me. The death rate between a vaxed versus and unvaxed person is about 61:1. Smokers and anti-vaxers pair up well with each other; they're more likely to be poor and uneducated. Don't be that person.

I haven't been sick this entire pandemic and my job requires me to fly all over the country. I go to crowded gyms while living in hotels. I'm a scientist for DARPA who runs experiments for the DOD mostly chemical biological research such as testing new hazmat suits and respirators along with doing C4ISR stuff.

I honestly think you got sick because you were jabbed and your immune system is incapable of developing proper immunity now. It can't recognize the newer variants which are mutated. You see this with people like Colbert and Paski who keep getting Covid despite being vaccinated. In fact, if you look at the Walgreens data for Covid you'll see that after about 6 weeks the vaccinated are far more likely to get Covid then the unvaccinated. They are completely vulnerable unless they keep up with jabs and the more jabs they get the more likely they are to get Covid after first couple of weeks. 

Also as the vaccine is leaky. That means the vaccinated spread it. so the vaccinated are actually the ones creating mutations and spreading Covid. Just like Mursk disease look it up. It's what happens when create a leaky vaccine. We would have reached heard immunity already if it wasn't for the vaccine. 

Then their is the vaccine injured like my 20 year old cousin who developed myocarditis and several females I know who have weird menstrual issues now. 

Oh and being against mRNA experimental technology is not being anti vaccine. They are completely different than traditional vaccines. I'm probably more vaccinated than 90% of the population being former military and living in the tropics previously. Have you been vaccinated for small pox or anthrax? I have although the latter is probably not a vaccine I would wish on anyone. Lots of veterans have problems from it. 

Oh and the most vaccine hesitant people are people with graduate degrees FYI, like my roommate who is a rocket Sciencists who works for Red Stone Arsenal for NASA. 

[Freeforester]

  More nonsense for the consensus minded ( - minded akin to those of the inquisition who considered Galileo to be a heretic for his observed views on  how the Earth revolved round the sun, and not the reverse, as was at that time considered to be the ‘true’ nature of said relationship) to ponder:

Funny how a proponent Doctor and user of vaccines has yet a sufficiently open mind to consider a wide range of evidence, from many diverse sources; maybe we (the harbingers of certain death, judged by our ‘sorcerous’ means of transportation across our ‘flat and static Earth’🤣) should keep an open mind too, or is it the view that ‘the science is settled’ on this also, lol.

Just to burnish my ‘unhinged’ image, and especially for Paul the Antagonist, Antipodean, All-knowing -whatever ‘A is for’…

https://youtu.be/pwvVephTIHU

[Paul A]

4 hours ago, Jswizzy84 said:

Oh and being against mRNA experimental technology is not being anti vaccine.

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines

Published October 06, 2021

By Chris Beyrer

Chris Beyrer, MD, MPH ’91, is the Desmond M. Tutu Professor of Public Health and Human Rights and director of the Center for Public Health and Human Rights at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

 

The Long History of mRNA Vaccines

Messenger RNA, or mRNA, was discovered in the early 1960s; research into how mRNA could be delivered into cells was developed in the 1970s.

So, why did it take until the global COVID-19 pandemic of 2020 for the first mRNA vaccine to be brought to market? 

 

There’s a big gap between when the first mRNA flu vaccine was tested in mice in the 1990s and when the first mRNA vaccines for rabies were tested in humans in 2013. What was happening in the interim?

The biggest challenge was that mRNA would be taken up by the body and quickly degraded before it could “deliver” its message—the RNA transcript—and be read into proteins in the cells. 

The solution to this problem came from advances in nanotechnology: the development of fatty droplets (lipid nanoparticles) that wrapped the mRNA like a bubble, which allowed entry into the cells.

Once inside the cell, the mRNA message could be translated into proteins, like the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, and the immune system would then be primed to recognize the foreign protein. 

 

So, what happened once they figured out this technology?

The first mRNA vaccines using these fatty envelopes were developed against the deadly Ebola virus, but since that virus is only found in a limited number of African countries, it had no commercial development in the U.S.

 

Then COVID-19 hit … what happened then?

Remember, the COVID-19 pandemic spurred manufacturers to develop dozens of potential vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 and brought tremendous increases in funding. Some of those vaccines used traditional methods involving adenovirus as the spike protein delivery system—such as the Johnson & Johnson vector vaccine.

 

Thanks to decades of research and innovation, mRNA vaccine technology was ready. With COVID, this technology got its moment and has proven to be extremely safe and effective. Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine is the first mRNA product to achieve full FDA approval in the U.S.

 

What’s next?

Already, vaccine manufacturers are developing mRNA vaccines to protect against other respiratory viruses such as the flu.

Moderna is exploring applications of the technology to protect against HIV.

It’s a new era for vaccine technology and production, and a testament to scientific progress and decades of research.

[Paul A]

How Do mRNA Vaccines Work? Here's What You Should Know

242,077 views

Jan 14, 2021

Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

24.4K subscribers

 

[Jswizzy84]

Paul I took Microbiology 1 and 2 I know how mRNA works.

 

The reason why mRNA took so long is because it never worked long term. You see terms like ADE and VAERD being coined during the early research to describe the side effects of mRNA vaccines. Most of the test subject animals dead after being exposed to the disease they were vaccinated against after their initial immunity wore off. 

Here is a study that shows that mRNA vaccines can cause VAERDs in mammals.

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/jvi.01725-21

Basically you're gonna have to take never ending boosters. Big Pharma has copted the Software as a service business model to create a billion dollar Vaccine as a service model. 

Meanwhile I'm not at risk for Covid death of hospitalization given my age and lack of disease and obsesity. So know I don't have to worry about vaccine side effects either but you do. Things like reproduce issues take years to show up so who knows what is gonna happen. It could be safe but why risk something for a disease that kills mostly people who are already past their life expectancy anyways? I'm not sure what the average age of Covid deaths is now but a year ago it was something like 80 years old. 

If you look at the CDC data Covid is a disease that largely is a threat to those over the age of 45 and who already have several comorbities. In fact most of Covid deaths had 4 or more comorbities and as many as 25% of Covid deaths were actually not even caused by Covid they were people dying of other causes but for some reason we changed the way we label deaths to inflate the numbers. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Jswizzy84

[LanghamP]

45 minutes ago, Jswizzy84 said:

Paul I took Microbiology 1 and 2 I know how mRNA works.

It doesn't seem like you know how mRNA works nor does it seem you know the history of it. It looks suspiciously to me that you have a political position that determines what science you do and do not believe in.

[Paul A]

Journal of Virology, credible source, thank you.

 

The abstract is simply stating that VAERD may happen when the WIV is antigenically mismatched with the infecting virus.

Viruses will naturally evolve and mutate, and thus the vaccine(s) will also need to be updated to avoid VAERD.

Updated to ensure there is proper matching and efficacy to continue.

This occurs every year with the annual influenza vaccine(s).

It is not unusual.

 

By stating that the vaccines do not work in the long term might be giving people the wrong impression. 

If the virus did not change, the original vaccine dose would continue to work in the long term.

 

Taking never ending boosters.

The usage of the word booster seems to imply that the vaccines efficacy wanes and need to be 'boosted'.

The booster can be the updated vaccine for the mutated virus.  It is a different strain, a different vaccine.

A virus may mutate to be benign.

A virus may mutate to be malignant.

Do not think Big Pharma has a conspiracy, using mRNA as a billion dollar service/business model.

Big Pharma has no control over the behaviour, mutations of a virus.

Big Pharma responds to what the virus does.

 

If the virus mutates to be benign, then it the pandemic will be over.

If the virus mutates to be malignant, then updated 'boosters' will be required.  That would be desirable.

 

Mortality is not the only concern.

Covid can inflict serious, permanent damage to the organs.

Vaccines greatly reduce the severity.

 

[Paul A]

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/11/understanding-the-science-behind-a-vaccine-booster/

November 23, 2021

Breaking down boosters

Jonathan Abraham, assistant professor of microbiology in the Blavatnik Institute at Harvard Medical School (HMS) and an infectious disease specialist at Brigham and Women’s Hospital, discussed the science and history of vaccine boosters.

 

Abraham: Vaccines remain extremely effective at preventing severe infection and death, but they are not 100 percent effective at stopping acquisition and transmission of the virus.  Particularly, in areas with high-infection rates due to low vaccination uptake, vaccinated people are more likely to be exposed to the virus and get a breakthrough infection. With this in mind, I would speculate that because of highly transmissible variants, we will need periodic boosters for the next few years. During that time frame, using an updated vaccine strain may be wise because we are unlikely to ever see the original vaccine strain again — it has virtually gone extinct.

 

HMS:  What other types of vaccines besides COVID-19 require periodic boosters?

Abraham: An example is Tdap immunization: tetanus, diphtheria, and acellular pertussis. We usually require boosters, with Td component or Tdap, every 10 years to preserve immunity.

 

HMS:  Why do we need boosters for some vaccines but not for others?

Abraham: For some pathogens, having preexisting and primed immune responses — for example, in the form of measurable antibody levels — is critical for efficacy. So, as antibody levels naturally wane over time, a booster is required. For other pathogens, like hepatitis B virus, completing the immunization three-shot series is likely to provide lifelong protection, so measurable antibody levels are not routinely checked. But, if the risk of infection is higher, for example, for health care workers, checking antibody levels at least once and providing a booster if antibodies are found to be low may be important. So, the decision to boost or not boost is multifactorial, and ultimately, it is based on studies and experience.

 

HMS:  Are COVID-19 boosters different in any way than other vaccine boosters?

Abraham: For now, the same SARS-CoV-2 spike protein antigen is used for the vaccine and the boosters. However, there is the chance that, over time, the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein will shape-shift or mutate enough that a booster with an updated strain antigen would be required to prime the immune system to recognize the mutant virus. This scenario would be more like what is done with the seasonal influenza virus vaccines every year, although we think more of flu vaccines as strain-matched vaccines as opposed to periodic boosters.

[Jswizzy84]

44 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

It doesn't seem like you know how mRNA works nor does it seem you know the history of it. It looks suspiciously to me that you have a political position that determines what science you do and do not believe in.

I'm gonna ignore this bad faith argument

[Freeforester]

 

2 minutes ago, Paul A said:

If the virus mutates to be malignant, then updated 'boosters' will be required.  That would be desirable.

The T-cell exhaustion and Antibody Dependent Enhancement associated with ‘boosters’ may not be so desirable, but it’s a free choice, mostly…

As Jswizzy84 states above, the problems associated with mRNA based vaccines are not new. To suggest that they have been somehow ‘overcome’ may be described variously as to be anything from ‘welcome’ to ‘fanciful’, with the former effectively discounting all those many people who have meantime suffered harm as a result, much less those for whom the trouble is only about to start.     To suggest that ‘better boosters’ deployed ‘whack-a-mole’-like ad infinitum are going to be the victor in the war on Covid might benefit the producers, but the recipients? - not so much.
 

Given the threshold for efficacy to unlock the Emergency Use Authorisation for use of experimental medicines is greater than the current vaccines and boosters manage to achieve against omicron, it would appear to be moot as to their continued benefit, even disregarding the risk of adverse events.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22536382/
 

 

[Jswizzy84]

16 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Journal of Virology, credible source, thank you.

 

The abstract is simply stating that VAERD may happen when the WIV is antigenically mismatched with the infecting virus.

Viruses will naturally evolve and mutate, and thus the vaccine(s) will also need to be updated to avoid VAERD.

Updated to ensure there is proper matching and efficacy to continue.

This occurs every year with the annual influenza vaccine(s).

It is not unusual.

 

By stating that the vaccines do not work in the long term might be giving people the wrong impression. 

If the virus did not change, the original vaccine dose would continue to work in the long term.

 

Taking never ending boosters.

The usage of the word booster seems to imply that the vaccines efficacy wanes and need to be 'boosted'.

The booster can be the updated vaccine for the mutated virus.  It is a different strain, a different vaccine.

A virus may mutate to be benign.

A virus may mutate to be malignant.

Do not think Big Pharma has a conspiracy, using mRNA as a billion dollar service/business model.

Big Pharma has no control over the behaviour, mutations of a virus.

Big Pharma responds to what the virus does.

 

If the virus mutates to be benign, then it the pandemic will be over.

If the virus mutates to be malignant, then updated 'boosters' will be required.  That would be desirable.

 

Mortality is not the only concern.

Covid can inflict serious, permanent damage to the organs.

Vaccines greatly reduce the severity.

 

https://www.walgreens.com/businesssolutions/covid-19-index.jsp

[LanghamP]

3 minutes ago, Jswizzy84 said:

I'm gonna ignore this bad faith argument

Whenever someone says they work for so-and-so but omits their full name along with their (medical) credentials, then one immediately wonders if they are who they say they are.

[Paul A]

22 minutes ago, Jswizzy84 said:

 

A vaccine does not prevent a person from contracting Covid and thus testing positive for it.

A vaccine greatly reduces the likelihood of death, and reduces the severity of the virus.

The Covid vaccine does not give sterilizing immunity.

Some vaccines do give sterilizing immunity.  eg: the smallpox vaccine.

Vaccines need not completely stop COVID transmission to curb the pandemic.

Lessons from other viruses show that even if vaccines don’t completely stop disease spread, they can still successfully contain it.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vaccines-need-not-completely-stop-covid-transmission-to-curb-the-pandemic1/