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Ninebot tipped forward


Kwing
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Yesterday I was enjoying my ride when I tried to speed up then somehow the ninebot tipped forward and I get thrown off the wheels landed on the the floor full force scrapped a large chunk of skin off both of my palms. Thank god nothing was fractured or anything!

I am so paranoid now. I was not sure is it because I leaned too fall forward or I went to fast or I acccelerated too quickly. What happened.

Well my crappy old TG leans back when I go too fast or accelerates the ninebot certainly didnt.

 

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This is cause by wrong centre of gravity cause by incorrect body posture. Fast riders should learn to ride backward to forward to backward to forward repeatly for ten counts at different distances to get a feel of the wheel. It is easier to forward over lean than backward over lean.

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I'm currently reading a good book/ master thesis. It states:

Functional Security (Safety) is a feature.

this is not true by today for most of the EU. They're to fast for their limited power.

Look on this how Jason over lean this beast (KS16)

 

 

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2 hours ago, OliverH said:

Look on this how Jason over lean this beast (KS16)

Wow. I love how he is so aggressive with the wheel (both accelerating and braking) but it doesn't seem to have a problem at all. Now I'm starting to think that KS16 may be my next wheel.

@Kwing Even when you have tilt-back it is possible to "over-lean" before the wheel can give you a tilt-back warning, especially if you are already traveling pretty fast. Keeping your knees bent is important in my experience when you're traveling quickly, it gives you a little more ability to lean back for balance if you get close to the limit of the wheel. No matter what, always wear some basic safety gear like a helmet and gloves.

Edit: It is also possible this is one of the Ninebot failures that seem to be related to firmware. What version are you running?

Edited by dmethvin
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7 hours ago, Kwing said:

Yesterday I was enjoying my ride when I tried to speed up then somehow the ninebot tipped forward and I get thrown off the wheels landed on the the floor full force scrapped a large chunk of skin off both of my palms. Thank god nothing was fractured or anything!

I am so paranoid now. I was not sure is it because I leaned too fall forward or I went to fast or I acccelerated too quickly. What happened.

Well my crappy old TG leans back when I go too fast or accelerates the ninebot certainly didnt.

 

This is not new and is a natural phenomenon to the famous Ninebot. Here are 2 very similar events:

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't understand how *any* wheel could have the ability to tilt you back if you overlean.  If a wheel doesn't have the gusto to keep you moving forward how could it afford to spend extra energy tilting you back?  Doen't a tiltback require even more energy than normal movement?

Edited by musk
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1 minute ago, SlowMo said:

Looks like normal riding to me.

Jason was obviously trying to test its limits/ behavior. But i wouldnt call it overleaning :) , just leaning :). Usually overleaning means leaning more than one should have as in the wheel that cant handle it or becomes unstable :). In this case it was just rapid leaning :) 

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14 minutes ago, musk said:

I don't understand how *any* wheel could have the ability to tilt you back if you overlean.  If a wheel doesn't have the gusto to keep you moving forward how could it afford to spend extra energy tilting you back?  Doen't a tiltback require even more energy than normal movement?

Exactly - once the wheel cannot stabilize the overleaning anymore it has no chance to make a tiltback

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Just now, Chriull said:

Exactly - once the wheel cannot stabilize the overleaning anymore it has no chance to make a tiltback

Right. The wheel cannot have a fool proof protection against overleaning. It can have a powerful motor to withstand more aggressive leaning, but if you want to overlean, you always will be able to ( at least with today's motors power)

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13 minutes ago, Kwing said:

I think I was sudden leaning rather than over leaning or both I couldn't remember right now. Question is this a common  issue to most brands or just ninebot.. ?

Any brand will become unstable if you lean too suddenly and too far forward. Different wheels will support different maximum amount of leaning.

depending on what actually happened will determine if this is common for all wheels or just ninebot. What speed were you going at? And how much do you weigh?

Edited by Cloud
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Overleaning is an issue with every wheel. The "stronger/faster" you lean forward the faster the wheel has to accelerate to move under your center of gravity again - and depending on the available battery power/motor power and mainboard "logic" (how much the controller can and want to let from the battery to the motor) it can be just not possible and result in a overleaning.

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23 minutes ago, Kwing said:

I think I was sudden leaning rather than over leaning or both I couldn't remember right now. Question is this a common  issue to most brands or just ninebot.. ?

More often with the Ninebot. Have you recently heard of overleaning issues with the Gotway, IPS or Kingsong in this forum? Surely if any incident occurred, it will be immediately posted unless if the owner doesn't want to.

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34 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Jason was obviously trying to test its limits/ behavior. But i wouldnt call it overleaning :) , just leaning :). Usually overleaning means leaning more than one should have as in the wheel that cant handle it or becomes unstable :). In this case it was just rapid leaning :) 

What I like to show with this video is that certain EUs can handle a lot and others not. There may be some Nm missing between or the torque/ power curve is different. But this is the different.

The normal Ninebot e/e+lacks power as it's not in the 800/ 1000W nominal power class. They're allowing to much speed for the power and may be the position of the pedals are a bit to high.

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15 minutes ago, SlowMo said:

More often with the Ninebot. Have you recently heard of overleaning issues with the Gotway, IPS or Kingsong in this forum? Surely if any incident occurred, it will be immediately posted unless if the owner doesn't want to.

Gotways (Kingsong?) have 680Wh+ battery packs, so 4+ Lion cells in parallel - Ninebot E/P have only ~320Wh (2 Lion) cells in parellel. So a Gotway can deliver twice the power than a Ninebot...

9 minutes ago, OliverH said:

What I like to show with this video is that certain EUs can handle a lot and others not. There may be some Nm missing between or the torque/ power curve is different. But this is the different.

The normal Ninebot e/e+lacks power as it's not in the 800/ 1000W nominal power class. They're allowing to much speed for the power and may be the position of the pedals are a bit to high.

...plus the gotways have a stronger motor. A Ninbot P also would have an 800W motor. But with around 1000W and ~50V from the battery pack you have a current of 20A. Thats 10A per cell if two are in parallel - about the limit of the rated discharge currents (~5-20A depending on the manufacturer). With 4 cells in parallel you only have 5A and so much more safety margin and less voltage drop...

Imho jason showed some voltage/current/power graphs of ninebot/gotway while driving - for "aggressive" driving (strong leans) the power consumption is far over this 1000W nominal power and the voltage drop of a ninebot was quite at the limit...

Imho wheels with battery packs with 2 cells in parallel (or even worse just one cell) are not recommendable for encouraged driving.

Personally i had never a problem with overleaning with my ninebot e+ - i assume i just drive to careful;)

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5 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Gotways (Kingsong?) have 680Wh+ battery packs, so 4+ Lion cells in parallel - Ninebot E/P have only ~320Wh (2 Lion) cells in parellel. So a Gotway can deliver twice the power than a Ninebot...

...plus the gotways have a stronger motor. A Ninbot P also would have an 800W motor. But with around 1000W and ~50V from the battery pack you have a current of 20A. Thats 10A per cell if two are in parallel - about the limit of the rated discharge currents (~5-20A depending on the manufacturer). With 4 cells in parallel you only have 5A and so much more safety margin and less voltage drop...

Imho jason showed some voltage/current/power graphs of ninebot/gotway while driving - for "aggressive" driving (strong leans) the power consumption is far over this 1000W nominal power and the voltage drop of a ninebot was quite at the limit...

Imho wheels with battery packs with 2 cells in parallel (or even worse just one cell) are not recommendable for encouraged driving.

Personally i had never a problem with overleaning with my ninebot e+ - i assume i just drive to careful;)

Agree. What's your weigtht, what kind of Ninebot and which Firmware version?

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12 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Gotways (Kingsong?) have 680Wh+ battery packs, so 4+ Lion cells in parallel - Ninebot E/P have only ~320Wh (2 Lion) cells in parellel. So a Gotway can deliver twice the power than a Ninebot...

While it is true that Gotways can have 680Wh packs, most of the forum members only have 340wh packs in their units. There seems to be some mismatch between the motor and the main board of the Ninebots that is why Ninebot keeps on correcting the flaws via the infamous firmware upgrades.

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7 minutes ago, Chriull said:

~90kg, ninebot one e+, i always had a quite actuall firmware version - but never one of the "desaster" versions. Now i have 1.3.5 but never rode with it since und the update...

I would tax 90-95 kg as the naximum which is good/"safe" rideable on the 9b1 e/e+. We always should keep in mind that there's a difference of the physical integrity with load and the capability to handle this weight.

We've freezed our 9b1 e on a 1.2.x version. No intention to share face plant experience with 9b1 driving over here. They totally lost any reputation to me.

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