V11 bearings - is it warranty?

[Forwardnbak]

Hi just hoping for some clarification on the V11 moisture in bearings 

Is this a warranty issue? 
 

My wheel went in to have some work, I was told my bearings have rusted due to moisture. 
I was told this is not a warranty and is going to cost $400. 
 

i have seen many get replacements on the forums was this warranty? Or just nice service of the supplier? Thanks 

I did buy this wheel because of weather sealing. 

[supercurio]

Hello!

First, I'm sorry I won't have a definite answer for you.
What we've seen in multiple instances was Inmotion taking charge of the motor replacement at their own cost - as a mean to replace the bearings.
Some had a motor shipped to them so they would replace it themselves, some others had multiple bearing replacements by their dealer (like Speedyfeet in the UK). In that case, there was no expense for the customer on top of the from the repeated annoyance of missing their vehicle.

That doesn't seem to be a super good outcome in your case, but it's hard to make generalities. The price seems high assuming Inmotion would pay for the motor replacement under warranty.
By the way, weren't you aware that the bearing were trashed before? Usually they get pretty noisy so it wouldn't come as a surprise.

Edited November 9, 2021 by supercurio

[NUKA COLA]

I bought my V11 last January and just after 140km of riding I got bearing issues, contacted my seller and they took care of everything with INMOTION. I got a replacement motor with tire preinstalled on it, free of charge. Got bearing issues again this summer, this time it wasn't covered by warranty(had 5000KM+ on the odo at the time).
The motor I bought came with some extra protection for the bearing, now it came with some kind of rubber cover on it, looks much more resistant to water now. Also added some marine grease just to be sure.
see picture bellow(the brownish circle is the cover they added for this replacement motor).

Now I'm finally confident a bit of water isn't going to fuck up the bearing...
 

link for picture : https://ibb.co/hRcK3QV

[Forwardnbak]

I bought the wheel at the dealer less than a year  ago. The dealer has been great. 
 

when I bought it i mentioned I was worried about the bearings as I would need to commute and may get caught in the rain. They mentioned they were aware of the issue which INMOTION acknowledges and covers and had a fix if it happened. 
 

I was caught in the rain once. 
 

it started squeaking and I knew I had the issue. Then I contacted the store. Regarding this and faulty light. 
I visited they said it didn’t sound too bad maybe hit it with some lubricant and see. they were really busy and I did need to keep commuting so I left to try this. 

I was given a light module and I started to look at videos to disassemble.

It looked a little more complicated than I expected and as it was warranty only a few months old I decided best to trust the store. They have great service team.

 

I dropped it off and was contacted yesterday with above quote $400 is AUD price and covers labour. But I still feel it is warranty replacement.  

I actually wouldn’t have dropped it off had I known there was a chance of a cost. I was clear the issue and to me no question it wasn’t warranty. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Forwardnbak

[Chriull]

5 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

bought the wheel at the dealer less than a year  ago. The dealer has been great. 
 

when I bought it i mentioned I was worried about the bearings as I would need to commute and may get caught in the rain. They mentioned they were aware of the issue which INMOTION acknowledges and covers and had a fix if it happened. 

As i just looked at a resellers page the V11 is (was?) Sold with an IP55 rating - resistant to water jets from any direction.

So a clear design issue from the beginning.

As your dealer is not great anymore, serms you would need support from a lawyer or some "consumer protection institution"?

But still warranty is "just" a "reversal of the burden of proof". The reseller can still claim something different after opening/repairing the wheel or fake evidence...

Your local lawyer should be able to tell you about possible risks, recommendable/needed documentatipn, etc...

[Emil Bergvall]

As i mentioned in the other thread try to contact Inmotion directly and get their opinion and then get back to your dealer. Since there are a lot of ongoing issues and the wheel should be IP55 i have a hard time seeing that rust should be considered ok on such a new product. 

[Forwardnbak]

The store i purchased from are great and service department is good, I’m sure it was just a miscommunication or something? I just wanted to confirm if it was covered. The IP rating was the reason I bought this model and assumed it would be fine. 
 

thanks for the help. I’m waiting to hear from the store. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Forwardnbak

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Forwardnbak said:

The store i purchased from are great and service department is good, I’m sure it was just a miscommunication or something? I just wanted to confirm if it was covered. The IP rating was the reason I bought this model and assumed it would be fine. 
 

thanks for the help. I’m waiting to hear from the store. 

IP rating doesn't really mean much. Until it is IP certified the rating doesn't help you much. An IP rating can be put on anything but since it is not guaranteed though a verified standard test the reseller or manufacturer can put all proof that the fault wasn't  due to miss-use of the product. 

This goes not just for EUCs, mobile phone makes are very likely to dodge any water damage claims too.

As of the V11 I think Inmotion got cough out on how much problems the new construction would give them, despite doing a fairly long develop period and postponing the release and ship to market even once them became aware of problems. It just seems it has been a more difficult problem to fix. And despite new motor designs and shifting to different bearing and even added a extra bearing seal, it isn't the same that one will never have a problem.And this goes for other brands too.

Water might not be the biggest problem. I think fine grit mud or dirt might be worse. Also some seem to get into lodes of trouble yet some don't get any problem whatsoever. That I think is why Inmotion did't spot this at first and part reason they had a hard time to solve this, as good as it possible can be solved without a total redesign of the wheel/model.

[Emil Bergvall]

11 hours ago, Unventor said:

IP rating doesn't really mean much. Until it is IP certified the rating doesn't help you much. An IP rating can be put on anything but since it is not guaranteed though a verified standard test the reseller or manufacturer can put all proof that the fault wasn't  due to miss-use of the product. 

This goes not just for EUCs, mobile phone makes are very likely to dodge any water damage claims too.

As of the V11 I think Inmotion got cough out on how much problems the new construction would give them, despite doing a fairly long develop period and postponing the release and ship to market even once them became aware of problems. It just seems it has been a more difficult problem to fix. And despite new motor designs and shifting to different bearing and even added a extra bearing seal, it isn't the same that one will never have a problem.And this goes for other brands too.

Water might not be the biggest problem. I think fine grit mud or dirt might be worse. Also some seem to get into lodes of trouble yet some don't get any problem whatsoever. That I think is why Inmotion did't spot this at first and part reason they had a hard time to solve this, as good as it possible can be solved without a total redesign of the wheel/model.

I don't understand what you are talking about here. I see that you are also a Swede and i get somewhat confused by your lack of knowledge on how it actually works. There are many cases where consumer laws here in Sweden has forced companies like Apple and Samung to repair or replace phones that they have claimed are not covered by guarantee because of water damage. The IP rating may not be the absolute of this but it sure does hint on how the product that is being sold is meant to be used. IP55 is a clear statement that a vechicle is supposed to be able to handle rain. If that is not the case then consumer laws would apply. Warranty is something that is optionally given by the company manufacturing the product and most companies give warranty because otherwise people would not buy their products. 

Where this all gets a bit sketchy is if you buy something straight from China. However if you buy anything within EU the consumer laws of EU and that specific country will apply and be forced upon the reseller no matter what the manufacturer thinks. 

So all in all this is of course covered by warranty unless you have done something extreme like submerged your vechicle under water or something that it was obviously not meant for. If you ride your vechicle with IP55 in light or even heavy rain and get bearing issues then it is something that the manufacturer is obliged to fix. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Emil Bergvall

[Chriull]

24 minutes ago, Emil Bergvall said:

manufacturer is obliged to fix

The reseller is, as the (sales) contract is with him and he is the importer of the wheel into the (european) market.

If the manufacturer fixes or delivers anything is maybe some separate agreement between them or some voluntary gift for a customer.

[Forwardnbak]

I agree, companies shouldn’t state things to get sales that don’t hold up. I was clear that I needed to commute and weather may be a factor. The reason I chose V11. I feel the price tag is valid for a weather proof vehicle, my first motorbike cost less. 
 

I was also told that the warranty is only for 2000klms, is that correct? 

[Emil Bergvall]

1 minute ago, Forwardnbak said:

I was also told that the warranty is only for 2000klms, is that correct? 

It is very hard to give a straight answer to that. Talk to Inmotion is my recommendation. Was this said by Inmotion or your dealer? 

I have noticed that there seems to be some different takes on what is included in warranty in different places. I would talk to them and explain your situation. 

[supercurio]

8 hours ago, Chriull said:

The reseller is, as the (sales) contract is with him and he is the importer of the wheel into the (european) market.

If the manufacturer fixes or delivers anything is maybe some separate agreement between them or some voluntary gift for a customer.

I imagined that "Aus" was for Australia, hence the quote in $ (Australian Dollars)

@Forwardnbak, which country are we talking about by the way? 
I'm asking because there is a debate starting regarding EU rules, which might not apply in your case.

[mrelwood]

On 11/11/2021 at 2:51 PM, Forwardnbak said:

I was also told that the warranty is only for 2000klms, is that correct? 

If your seller has such text in their warranty terms, then maybe. But even if they did, there is still a certain amount of product responsibility the manufacturer needs to bear. At least in EU.

 But how things should go by law is sometimes quite different than how it ends up going. Trying to get a Chinese manufacturer to follow EU warranty/product responsibility laws is simply a horrible amount of time and energy wasted, even if you would eventually get the service you deserve.

 But so far this is just theorizing. In practice:

 If the bearings are noisier than you’d like and the seller says it’s not under warranty, your options are to either fight the seller and eventually wait for a very long time without a wheel for them to get the bearings or the whole motor replaced, learn to replace the bearings yourself, or find a person who can replace the bearings at your cost. I’d very happily do it for a local rider who needs help, provided I can schedule it in. The bearings themselves start at around 20€ each, stainless steel versions at 50€ (older 6816 size only).

Edited January 11, 2022 by mrelwood

[Forwardnbak]

The store is doing great for me now speaking with INMOTION. 

It’s not a huge problem just i can’t afford the money right now and will just ride it noisy if need be. It’s more thrown my confidence in the V11 as a commuter, it has been outstanding. Where we live we get flash storms that are common.
 

I am more after clarification on the warranty because that was a large reason I chose this model for water use, and also a good re seller so I had support IF I had any issues. 

It would be amazing to be confident in the product or the support of the manufacturer. I don’t want any small resellers out of pocket so they must be reimbursed fairly for the time it takes and parts.  

Edited November 11, 2021 by Forwardnbak

[Unventor]

@Emil Bergvall what I am saying is IP55 rated without a certified test that is recognised then you can set any rating you like.

If you compare this as crash testing of cars, any company can give their own rating, but until this is done by a independent and government or authority approved testing facility that rating isn't worth much. 

These tests are expensive to do (IP testings and crashing cars) . In the end when a consumer calls upon warranty the consumer has to prove it is a manufacturer fault during production and not due how a product has been used or misused. That can be tricky. 

You might think there are countless cases where consumers win over Apple and similar companies. But from my time in resales I can say the majority of cases do not go the consumers way. We have however some times given the customer solutions despite a manufacturer didn't approve of it, at the expense of the store I worked for. 

Now I hope you get your wheel fixed @Forwardnbak.

As to the question, if a reseller can put a limit on the range for your warranty, I think that is possible if it is a reasonable range. This is done on cars and many other items. Sometimes called duty cycle or lifespan. The question here is what is reasonable and that I have a much harder time to put a number on that for an EUC. 

[Emil Bergvall]

5 hours ago, Unventor said:

These tests are expensive to do (IP testings and crashing cars) . In the end when a consumer calls upon warranty the consumer has to prove it is a manufacturer fault during production and not due how a product has been used or misused. That can be tricky. 

This of course differs in different countries. But in Sweden were we are both located any error reported on a product within 6 months were the product doesn't work as promoted is assumed to have been there from the beginning and it's up to the reseller to prove if that is not the case. Even up to three years the protection for the consumer is very strong but it many times requires that the consumer is strong and has an understanding of the laws. The main issue here are resellers that doesn't want to follow the laws because they are more interested in selling new things than after sales support. 

5 hours ago, Unventor said:

You might think there are countless cases where consumers win over Apple and similar companies. But from my time in resales I can say the majority of cases do not go the consumers way. We have however some times given the customer solutions despite a manufacturer didn't approve of it, at the expense of the store I worked for. 

There are countless cases. The main reason that people don't get their legal right to a replacement product is because resellers many times only wants to sell things and are less interested in after-sales support in combination with consumers not being aware of the laws. I have many many times over the years claimed the consumer laws and on some very few occations i had to debate it with the reseller and in some few cases i had to report it to ARN here in Sweden to put pressure on the reseller. We are talking about over hundred cases spanning 15 years and it has happened to me once that i did not get a replacement for a faulty product and in that case the company went out of business.