Why Veteran Sherman is not for beginers?

[CastEarth]

I have heard in a few areas and videos that the veteran Sherman is not a good wheel for beginners.

Why?  can someone give me specific detailed reasons why?   

I am looking for a new wheel.  I am only able to buy one wheel so have to do the best I can.  

Veteran Sherman seems to be the most durable and reliable (which is very important to me) 

[null]

1 hour ago, CastEarth said:

I have heard in a few areas and videos that the veteran Sherman is not a good wheel for beginners.

Why?  can someone give me specific detailed reasons why?   

I am looking for a new wheel.  I am only able to buy one wheel so have to do the best I can.  

Veteran Sherman seems to be the most durable and reliable (which is very important to me) 

There is nothing wrong with getting a Sherman as a first EUC, it is heavy but it is also stable.
People arguing against do so mainly because when learning the EUC often fall and gets scratched.
But a heavy wheel falls less quickly thanks to inertia, and you can pad it up for protection.

If you wanted a learner wheel you could get a second hand and sell it again after, but really, pack the Sherman in a yoga matt or something like that and you're good to go. I've read of many people learning on 18"+ EUCs, including Sherman.

Edited March 18, 2021 by null

[meepmeepmayer]

If money is a concern, always buy the wheel you ultimately want right away Sherman time it is! It's a popular wheel for a reason. Just pad it up well before trying it (the yoga mat thing is a great idea).

[Tawpie]

There's a number of factors that can influence your choice of learning wheel, and I do believe most can learn to ride on any wheel. That said, mass is a real thing and with a heavier wheel, you will have that extra challenge to deal with so know that going in.

When learning, everybody falls off all the time and the wheel ends up on its side—you get to pick it back up a few hundred times. Mine also went for several tumbles end over end. Obviously, this is temporary, at least until you have a real crash. Yoga mats and duct tape are inexpensive. Ugly as sin, but inexpensive.

You won't be able to 'yank' a heavier wheel around as easily as you can a lighter one—that's probably not a big deal but it does mean you'll be turning with weight transfer rather than brute force (a good thing in the long run, yanking the wheel around is for very slow speeds and probably not common amongst Sherman riders).

Find a nice open area to learn in, it's gonna be harder to stop until you get the hang of it. And wheels do wander off without their riders on occasion.

If it were me though, I'd start with a used general purpose wheel to give you a chance to discover which of the different 'styles' of riding that hook you. You'd hate to discover you're really a go backwards on one leg @pico trickster or a stair mobber or a mountain busting trail fiend and own only a long range high speed pavement eater. Of course, you'll be able to resell the Sherm in a heartbeat if the price is right and it isn't too beat up, and you will probably have several wheels eventually anyway. So maybe just go for the gusto!

Edited March 18, 2021 by Tawpie

[Scottie888]

I'm gonna use an analogy as an illustration for you. Maybe its not the best but still, it should give you an idea. Its like learning how to drive with a full size vehicle (or suv or truck I guess). The added dimensions & weight makes it more unwieldy, requires more attention & info processing esp at slow speeds in a busy urban enviroment. There's a reason why almost every driving school uses a compact or subcompact vehicle.

For me, besides the basics of mount/dismount, going forward & turns, the real skills was picked up riding on offroad & dirt. This was where I learnt to use foot techniques, weight shifting & doing it all smoothly instead of "muscling" it while avoiding ruts, divets & other such obstacles at slow speeds. While its definitely possible doing it on a ~80lb Sherman, its much easier to learn with less effort on some thing weighing 1/2 of that.

The primary reason I love the MCM5v2 is that its likely amongst the best (can't say the best cos I haven't tried everything) wheel to ride up to 30kph. Its light, easy to ride, super maneuverable, climbs, comfortable & goes like stink from a standstill. I dare say it'll destroy the Sherman in handling (&mayhaps other areas) til 30kph. 

And we learn to ride at slow speeds, don't we🤔😜

[pico]

21 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I do believe most can learn to ride on any wheel

100%  in agreement! In the end you will end up buying many anyways! 

A wheel for each mood and each season.  

So far(!) no wheel is perfect for all uses, all situations, all people.

 

BTW, The rider's weight is probably the most important parameter to specify when asking for or listening to recommendations.

Second only is the type of usage you foresee then the typical distance you want to cover.

 

 

 

[xiiijojjo]

When i started i bought the cheapest throwaway model i could find at the time in 2016. I ended up paying 130€ for a generic 14", 12km/h, 5km range garbage wheel and learned the basics on that wheel.
I started by learning to mount/dismount by a fence that was as high as my hips when mounted, and used said fence for support. The surface i practiced on was smooth asphalt.
I think i got around 200km of practice in on this wheel before it eventually died on me from the daily abuse by both me as well as friends who had some interest. I would not let friends beat up my expensive RS by trying to learn.

The day it broke i bought my first real wheel the Gotway Msuper v3 an 18" wheel and had to relearn or rather adjust what i had learned on the much smaller and lighter 14" wheel. First impression was that on the 18"er i could barely turn now because i was used to the increased nimbleness of a 14" wheel. Within a week of owning the Msuper i was consistently riding at above 80% beeps (safety feature for not overloading and cutting out the wheel) and had a nasty crash as a result. 

My point with all this is mostly that in a matter of no time there is a likelihood that you will yearn for greater speed, range etc. So if you can, buy your dream wheel today rather than getting stuck with what eventually becomes an expensive regret. 
If you are unsure about your dedication to this hobby/lifestyle as i was in the beginning you can always do as i did and get the cheapest throwaway wheel money can buy and beat it up and not damage your investment... Or buy and wrap your dream wheel  in blankets or alternatives as others suggest. 
You must also take into consideration which riding styles interest you. Will you be a city commuter, a speed demon, a nature boy, a mountain rider, a skatepark trickster or something entire different or a combination of the above? 

If you are going to be doing mostly a to b city commuting/ shopping the Sherman is by no means an optimal wheel as it lacks a trolley handle.

Edited March 19, 2021 by xiiijojjo

[.....]

2 hours ago, CastEarth said:

I have heard in a few areas and videos that the veteran Sherman is not a good wheel for beginners.

Why?  can someone give me specific detailed reasons why?   

I am looking for a new wheel.  I am only able to buy one wheel so have to do the best I can.  

Veteran Sherman seems to be the most durable and reliable (which is very important to me) 

Heavy, expensive, still in first few revisions of new design. I learned on a KS18L. Its still the perfect blend of general purpose for me. I enjoy my sherman, but its at the heavy and expensive end of the spectrum.  I feel much less a danger to others in crowded areas, on my wheels that aren't the Sherman. The sherman has somewhat low pedals and lacks a little low speed torque. Depending on your use intentions, the Sherman may or may not be a good choice. As a newbie, I'd go for something more towards the middle of the pack, and leave the uber small and uber large for a second or third purchase. 80lbs isnt something to scoff at. If i lived up a flight of stairs or two, MY opinion of the sherm would probably dwindle nearly EVERYTIME I had to lift it at all. The sherman DOES have a trolley handle and it works just fine. Not as refined as the KS18 series, but totally useble. Don't be mistaken and think that useability and quality is a linear equation that follows price. I'm betting a LOT of new/virgin riders are eyeballing the sheman, simply because they figure it must be the best as it costs so much. Trust me, its not QUALITY you are paying for, its simply battery packs and markups.

Edited March 18, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[WI_Hedgehog]

Personally, I'd rather crash on a small, "inexpensive," "cheap to repair" wheel than have a land torpedo chase me down and detonate my @$$, then have to pay dearly to rebuild it so it can hunt me down again (or target someone's car...).

Kind of like it's smarter your first car be a Daewoo Tico than a McLaren P1 (or any other supercar, for that matter).

A small wheel makes a great loaner wheel when family/friends want to try (except your toxic mother-in-law, give her a land-rocket).

Edited March 19, 2021 by WI_Hedgehog

[Patrick Robert]

7 hours ago, CastEarth said:

Why?  can someone give me specific detailed reasons why?

Only one wheel? LOL
I had the same thinking at the beginning. Now I have 4 😉

I've only gotten into EUCs in September, so I remember my training days well. I picked the V10F as my first wheel, as it seemed an excellent commuter and well built (which is true). But after only a few weeks of riding, after seeing Kuji's video of the Sherman, I bought it. I've now ridden more than 6000 km on all my wheels, the bulk of it on the Sherman. 

I can think of a few reasons why learning on a Sherman is doable, but far from ideal:
 

Weight

It's no secret that this is a massive wheel. Weight is really good for high-speed stability (especially in windy conditions), but when learning it makes things way more difficult than they need to be.

One of the first things you will learn is how to handle the wheel with one leg, and "hopping" with the other leg to practice getting on. It's a balancing act, you actually need to tilt the wheel inside otherwise you'll lose control and it will fall on the outside. At first even the V10F was really heavy on my leg during this, and it's only 21 kg (the Sherman is 35 kg).

While you do that, and learn the rest of the basic skills needed, you'll drop the wheel on the ground soooo many times. You'll be scared to break it after each time. Better to do that with a lighter (and cheaper) wheel.

 

Stability

Yes, this is a really stable wheel. But while learning, not sure whether that's a good thing. I believe you'll develop your skills way better on a more "flimsy" wheel. After all, you're the one that needs to learn to balance on the damn thing, the wheels don't really care one way or another.

After a while, when I wanted to learn to ride backwards, I bought myself a KingSong 14D (really small 14" wheel). It's nimble and hyper-responsive, much better for learning a few tricks and essencial skills like sharper turns and riding extra slow. I've noticed that I'm a lot more confident and agile on my bigger wheels after practicing on my baby one.

 

Muscle mass
At first, I couldn't even control the Sherman very well. It decided where it wanted to go, not I, and I had to lean my full body weight into it in order to turn.

Eventually it got better. Even after riding the V10F for a few weeks, and developping a few muscles in the process, the Sherman forced me to develop my core and leg muscles A LOT MORE. Adding power pads helped a lot with that process, my control got a lot better with them. But that's starting to be a lot to learn when you put all of that together (I had to learn how to use the pads efficiently, too).

Agility
This has a 20" tire, surprisingly agile for its size but definitely not as agile as a smaller diameter wheel like a 16 or even 14 incher. As I said earlier, you'll develop your skills much better and faster on a more nimble wheel.

And even after that "eureka" moment when it all clicks and you realize you can go anywhere, you'll probably want to learn more skills. That smaller more agile wheel will not gather dust in your closet, that's the one you'll take to the skateboard park, not the Sherman!


Detailed enough for ya?

Edited March 19, 2021 by Patrick Robert

[CastEarth]

Thank you very much for the kind replies!! 

My weight and height about 215 Lbs 97Kg and 6 foot 2inches ~ 187 centimeters (I think)

The reason I am looking at the sherman is because of see video:  (Most other EUCs would just explode under that kind of abuse)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-PuLerm_U

I would go for an MSX but the only place, That I know of to still get a new one would be aliexpress and I dont know about that

it is true that more mass of the wheel will make it very hard to control and learn on, but I am under no delusions that I will "get it" right away

I have been reading the forum and watching youtube videos for 2 years or so but have not even had hope of getting a wheel tell recently

and will still be 2+ months away.  I think I am in this for the long haul. 

 

Again Thank you for everyone's thoughts and replys very much appreciated

 

[Patrick Robert]

17 minutes ago, CastEarth said:

The reason I am looking at the sherman is because of see video

Saw that a while back, yes. 

The Sherman is a damn reliable machine, as your original message stated. It's able to provide a lot of power mostly because it has 10 parallel packs supplying it (24s10p). My Nikola+ 100V, which can go 65 km/h, has 4 packs (24s4p).
And they obviously thought about a lot of small details like the placement of vents in a separate chamber under the controller board, the two linked only by a heatsink. Just brilliant! This is a refined product, not perfect but amazing as a 1st product from a brand new company. Amazing. I adore mine.

You raised an excellent question. I even saw videos from someone with the same goal: learn to ride on a Sherman. Here are videos of his experience, I let you judge for yourself, but you've been warned 🤣
 

 

 

[meepmeepmayer]

22 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

If money is a concern, always buy the wheel you ultimately want right away

Quoted for importance.

[Fantaman900]

My 2ct beginner story;

 

I'm the kinda guy that doesn't like starter stuff cus I grow out of it fast.

So I bought an RS, waited for a long time to have it lost in shipping.

When the seller offered a sherman from spain a.k.a. it would get here much faster I did cough up the extra money.

It came with 3.3km on the odo and now it's over 50km. My first ride was in the hallway on carpet alongside 2 walls.

Somehow all I have to do to not fall was wiggle that butt and your feet automatically started steering.

The second time in the hallway I was zipping back and forth rather easy so I needed more room.

The third ride was a big loop around in my city, only dropped it back home. First scratches.

After that I really wanted to go to the forest and so I did. First I have to warm up to be not a wobble beginner.

I got warmed up on bicycle paths but could not resist the challenge that are the walking path's.

It was cold outside but I was covered in sweat and smiles after climbing hills roots and big branches.

Mister sherman got covered is more scratches and dirt.

So next I rode it to a customer to pick his car throw it in the back, show it off at work.

Don't forget all the reactions from people seeing you ride this monster.

Maybe this heavy pig is not "the" starter wheel for many people but I'm just fine.

Me too I just need/want 1 EUC so I will say go for it! Buy that 1 wheel you want.

It's fine just step off and walk when you need to than get back on, you learn by practise practise practise.

Be prepared to struggle with slow and sharp turns when you start on a heavy pig like the sherman.

[.....]

10 hours ago, Fantaman900 said:

Me too I just need/want 1 EUC so I will say go for it! Buy that 1 wheel you want.

Anyone who's been in the euc game for ANY length of time, quickly realizes that you may only need one wheel but you will end up with multiples. Seems the virus hasnt caught you yet.... it will. Ima wimp, 'throwing' 80lbs into a car is easier said than done. Just wait until the bug gets you and you find yourself with other wheels to compare. I enjoy my Sherm, but I do enjoy my others a little more at times. Nothing wrong with learning to drive in a mack truck, as long as you got the $$ and don't mind scratches....  Good news is that you ended up with a wheel that is a bit better than the gotway offerings. Of course, this is totally my opinion.

Edited April 4, 2021 by ShanesPlanet