Can the EMF from a diesel-electric locomotive cause a cut out?

[GothamMike]

I had a cut-out across the street from where the commuter locomotives (4-5) are stored. They always sit there, with the engines running, when not in use. Months ago I had a low speed cut-out near a HAM radio operator.  I assume there is quite a large EMF field around the locomotives. Thoughts?

[Chriull]

5 minutes ago, GothamMike said:

I had a cut-out across the street from where the commuter locomotives (4-5) are stored. They always sit there, with the engines running, when not in use. Months ago I had a low speed cut-out near a HAM radio operator.  I assume there is quite a large EMF field around the locomotives. Thoughts?

Most probably not. 

They are not electric but diesel?

Or why are they running all the time?

But still radiation from electric motors from within a building across the street should not be really significant?

Which wheel are we talking about - the KS18L you have in your profile? Afair the KS18XL had some ?bluetooth/whichever other radio waves? problem in/around malls? But i have no idea what was really behind this reports, if any reason and/or solution was found... Or this were just regarding the lift sensor/walking the wheel probs?

Regarding the cut out - what was your speed, your acceleration and other burdens (head wind, incline, etc..)

One gets used to ones wheels possibilities and after some time can overburden it "easily" - should not be too hard with a KS18L?

Another point could be the battery. Age/charge cycles - already noticable less range possible? Still fully charging - not only % but also voltage after some resting period?.

[Tawpie]

Modern locomotives are diesel-electric. They use a diesel generator to drive large versions of our wheel motors, that's done because an electric motor has vastly superior torque.

Pretty much everything electrical generates electromagnetic fields of some sort and strength, including humans. For the most part these don't interfere with other electronics because the designers of the other electronics try to avoid malfunctions caused by nearby electrical noise sources because they will be there. The FCC part 15 subpart B sticker is supposed to be an attestation that thing with the sticker isn't intentionally radiating (broadcasting) radio frequencies, and that the characteristics of the unintentional stuff is within the limits specified. The bluetooth module in the wheel is an intentional radiator so certification to subpart C is also required to ensure that it doesn't broadcast in a manner that would unduly interfere with nearby devices. The sticker does NOT claim that the device will be able to operate as you expect in the presence of electrical noise, it just says the device shouldn't emit enough bad mojo to violate the regulation's maximum limits.

While I would be surprised to see an FCC part 15 sticker on a locomotive (the suspected noise source), there are other electronics in the machine and the drivers use radios and such, so it wouldn't make sense if the generator/motor were causing issues with stuff that runs the machine or that its operators rely on. But that doesn't mean that a wheel won't get screwed up by the junk coming from the locomotive. Our wheels are consumer grade minimum viable products designed and manufactured under extreme cost pressure. All possible deficiencies are on the table.

When a circuit is having problems with susceptibility to RF interference, it nearly always comes down to bad grounding, either due to unfortunate design or something has come 'unbonded'. So the next time you have the wheel apart, look carefully at all of the grounding wires and ensure that they're snug. You might even loosen them, wiggle them around, deal with corrosion and other goobers (shine with a pencil eraser, clean with rubbing alcohol), and retighten them. This will alter the connection a bit and might help things—it rarely hurts unless you make a mistake or don't get it resecured properly. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Tawpie

[RockyTop]

A locomotive generates enough electricity for a subdivision or a reasonable sized hospital. .... I want on for my subdivision. I could charge people to connect to my power grid when the power goes out.  I could just put it in my front yard and decorate it for Christmas. 
 

I have seen some pretty crazy things when it comes to electrical interference. If a train is messing with your wheel, something is likely wrong with your wheel. The only way that I can see a way in is that your Bluetooth is shorting the power or you are actually touching metal to metal with the train. .........  It would either have to short out the processing power source or mess up the motor encoder signal. ( I can’t remember what you guys call the sensor) 

Off subject.... kinda,  you can get LED tubes that replace the fluorescent tubes in existing lights. Those things create havoc on any communication systems that are on the same ground. They create a very dirty power. It has got to the point that any time we have a communication problem we start hunting down the LED tubes. ( alarm systems, smoke systems, phones, elevator systems) Normal LEDs are fine. The problem is with the built in step down transformer. 

[null]

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

something is likely wrong with your wheel.

EMFs are apparently the 18(X)L's kryptonite, mine cut just by walking past some freezers.
There have also been cases due to anti theft barriers.

(it might be reserved to older versions of the logic board, IDK)

Edited March 3, 2021 by null

[Tawpie]

15 minutes ago, null said:

EMFs are apparently the 18(X)L's kryptonite

ugh. That's a bit disturbing. Break out the tinfoil. Just make sure you ground it well.

[meepmeepmayer]

It's possible it was the locomotives.

KS had to add some shielding to the original 18L 1st batch design because there were EM interference problems leading to oscillations. Maybe it's not enough shielding. Gotway also once put the piezo speaker too close to the sensor and got oscillations.

Not sure if an outright cut out is possible this way.

EUC boards should be in closed metal boxes. Watertight + crash protection + no potential EM problems, all in one!

Or use a EUC bodyguard and cover its inside with tin foil (would that work?).

Edited March 3, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[GothamMike]

A few miles away, I was rolling along the LI Sound, guy in his car had a homemade HAM radio, he was revving his V8 station wagon Ford engine when he spoke. My KS18L cut out as I approached.

The locomotives were about 15 yards away in the outdoor yard, I was heading home. I’m just wondering if the engines contributed to my cut-out. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by GothamMike

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Or use a EUC bodyguard and cover its inside with tin foil (would that work?).

Maybe, it becomes an image plane and that might be enough, but you really want to bond the tinfoil to naught volt ref (ground for US peeps, but in the UK they are very specific). A DC connection might not be a connection at RF, which is why bonding/grounding is a challenge. It’s why tinfoil hats are marginally effective IRL, unless you keep pounding a copper stake into the earth everywhere you go they can still read your mind.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Tawpie

[GothamMike]

I go on Bigfoot Expeditions, So I've seen it all.

[WI_Hedgehog]

It doesn't have to be a train engine, it could be anything around the train engine (like LED lights or any other bad transformer). 

Aluminum foil doesn't contain iron and is non-magnetic, so it won't stop electro-magnetic radiation any better than your pants. To stop EMF a ferro-magnetic material such as galvanized steel (or any sheet steel) is needed. 

Stainless Steel sheet will work if it is magnetic (400 series), but not work if it's non-magnetic (300 series).

(If you don't believe me, wrap your cell phone in aluminum foil and call it from another phone) 

[GothamMike]

The train yard also has over catenary lines and Kawasaki electric trains. Each car has two trucks with electric motors and every other car has a catenary arm.

[RockyTop]

17 hours ago, GothamMike said:

I go on Bigfoot Expeditions, So I've seen it all.

My poor family just wants to be left alone!  ...... But if you do find Carl and Beth tell them that they are missed at Thanksgiving.