second hand KS 18L / right or wrong version.

[Paulo Mesquita]

Hello my friends,

as some of you know I'm quite new with EUC's (older in age...61) and I have come to a very fast conclusion: Although I'm in love with my KS 16X, I need a second and in second hand wheel. Just to feel safe about and repair timings if my one wheel needs to stop. You see, in Portugal there aren't that many riders and hardly any repair shops to help me out. AND NO, I'M NOT A DIY GUY WHEN IT COMES TO MECHANICS... only with telescopes and astronomy...

So on the 2nd hand market here in Portugal I found, very close to me, two KS sellers and I have negotiated the price of either purchase to 900€:

- one KS 16x (like mine) but with about 1800kms

- one KS 18L (white) with much less kms on it (a little over 300kms). 

NOW MY BIG QUESTION (AND FEAR) IS ABOUT THE 18L: I've seen that there was a bad version and a good version, but I don't know how to distinguish one from the other. And if I decide to go for the Ks 18L I want it to be the right one.

CAN YOU GUYS PLEASE HELP ME?

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Paulo Mesquita

[mrelwood]

I don’t know what you mean by a “bad version“, but the few things you should check when buying a second hand KS are:

- Fourth last character in the serial number (4th from the right) shouldn’t be a “P”. Those wheels will be locked when connecting to the KS app outside China, and they can’t be fully controlled by 3rd party apps.

- The charge level must reach 100% when charging. Otherwise the (expensive) battery is on its way out.

- Common check up before purchasing any 2nd hand EUC: Check that it starts up normally, rides normally, charges normally, and doesn’t emit any strange sounds.

[.....]

first version 18L with the BLACK shells, we're known to be a little brittle and/or problematic. The white version never had this issue. Aside from the geolocking, I dont think they made a "bad" version of the 18L. The upgraded pedals and trolley are worthy if needed, and available, so i dont know if that constitutes 'bad'. My 18L is my fav wheel and it has proven reliable. The FW i settled on (not most recent), has proved flawless and silent. You do realize that the 16X and 18L are VERY similar tho, right? I get around 30miles railing at 25mph with 130lb rider on my 18L. 18-22mph is the 18L's 'perfect' speed imho.  Having a spare that is very similar is nice, but don't ignore the pleasure of having 'flavors' with bigger differences.  Mten riders ftw!

The 18L pictured looks CLEAN! It doesnt take much time at all for these cheap aluminum wheels to begin show corrossion. That one looks great, so its obviously not been left out or ridden in salty or nasty roads much.

*thats an 18XL mudguard fwiw. Its also backwards. 18L came with the donkey nuts that doesnt break when you lay it down wrong.

*upgraded trolley is black rails and easily seen when lifted, as stock were silver.

*big pedals are black.. the silver is the smaller.

*RollNZ eucbg fits the 18l/XL wonderfully of course!

Edited February 14, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Paulo Mesquita]

Hi guys,

Per your advices and warnings, @mrelwoodand @ShanesPlanet :

- I've just asked the seller to photograph better the mudguard (he mentioned, after my asking him, that it seems that it could be mounted the other way...

- I asked about the battery, and he said that he can show it charges up to 100%

- As for the serial, it is in fact the one with the 4th digit from the right as a "P". So it's a china import. However he said two more things:

A) it works perfectly with EUC World and other apps

the KingSong app says there's an upgrade available, but he has never updated it. COULD THIS CAUSE TO LOCK THE WHEEL IF ONE UPDATES THE BIOS ON THE KS 18L?

@ShanesPlanet on the photos I can't figure out the pedals. Are the the new or old ones, Can you please confirm? They are silver with black tops...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Paulo Mesquita

[mrelwood]

22 minutes ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

As for the serial, it is in fact the one with the 4th digit from the right as a "P". So it's a china import. However he said two more things:

A) it works perfectly with EUC World and other apps

the KingSong app says there's an upgrade available, but he has never updated it. COULD THIS CAUSE TO LOCK THE WHEEL IF ONE UPDATES THE BIOS ON THE KS 18L?

The KS app can lock the wheel from just connecting to the wheel. Maybe the seller has a very old KS app which maybe doesn’t yet have this functionality.

 The maker of EUCW has himself said that EUCW and DarknessBot cannot fully support KS wheels with the letter P as the 4th last in the serial. Speed settings, calibration, and firmware upgrades are blocked per their license agreement with KS.

 My guess is that the seller either hasn’t connected to the KS app or updated the KS app in a year, which would explain the wheel not being locked.

 Then again, wheels bought before 2020, which the 18L surely is, can apply for the lock to be removed. It can take several days to do so, and the KS policy has been changing several times, meaning that the whitelisting service might not even be available anymore.

 Either way, despite being in great condition, I would not take the risk of buying a wheel with zero support from the manufacturer that remotely locks wheels manufactured as long as 4 years before their new locking policy even took place.

[Tawpie]

If your heart is set on the 18, you still a few options (ordered from least recommend to best option IMHO):

Ask the seller to update the firmware to the latest using the latest EUC world version. I would do my best to be with them when they do this so there’s no funny business. If the wheel is whitelisted, all is good. But warn the seller they may brick the wheel. Then verify with your own eyes and feet that it’s still rideable!

Have the seller either install a replacement non-P control board or discount the price accordingly. I don’t know if this would actually work, but it seems like it should.

Wait for another wheel—you don’t “need” a backup yet, and probably won’t.

[Paulo Mesquita]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

 Either way, despite being in great condition, I would not take the risk of buying a wheel with zero support from the manufacturer that remotely locks wheels manufactured as long as 4 years before their new locking policy even took place.

The problem is that in Europe there isn't one single store with the KS 18L or XL for sale. They're all sold out! I'm going to drive 70kms to see the wheel tomorrow and also test it. For me to decide to buy it it needs to:

- be at a very appealing price, maybe 800€

- I can never update the KS 18l with their app

-I need do buy the new and bigger pedals. 

I know it's a risk, but a calculated risk. After all, the KS 18L in Europe might not be available for long and the price will be near 2000€...

[.....]

older pedal are shown, but its not a big deal. I just have amercian sized feet. stock 18L pedals are entirely useable. The trolley is updated. The deal breaker would be the serial number. KS is called locksong because of that shitty geolock stuff. It is a very attractive price and the wheel looks good. I would take a hard pass tho because of the location serial. Its too much risk imho that eventually it will become locked and you wont be able to unlock its full speed. We still havent seen the battery level at 100% either.  Seeing that yuo already have a wheel, it should be a little easier to NOT be enticed to buy unless you REALLY want it.  Its your money, but I would try like hell to be patient and wait for a version without the geo locking serial.

Edited February 14, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Paulo Mesquita]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

... Its too much risk imho that eventually it will become locked and you wont be able to unlock its full speed.

is the lock KS does only for full speed limitations? If that's so what speed limit are we talking about? I don't intend to go over 30km/h and maybe it won't be an issue. 

...We still havent seen the battery level at 100% either. 

That is something I intend to see tomorrow

...be patient and wait for a version without the geo locking serial.

My problem is that both Europe and specifically Portugal...are a second hand EUC desert. And I can't dish out another almost 2K euros for another wheel.

@ShanesPlanet and @Tawpie , I promise I'll be checking everything tomorrow and I'll make a calculated risk decision...dads...

 

[Unventor]

I would still thing twice about buying a domestic Chinese version.

KS did say how they will lock down the wheels. 

I mean is it really worth the risk? 

[Paulo Mesquita]

I agree. I have a closer seller with another KS16x identical to mine and my original idea is to have a spare wheel in case one needs repairs, so that I don't go back in my learning curve, whinge stopping for a few weeks. 

This KS 16 has the Corbet serial # and is in quite good conditjon and I can get it for 900€ which is half the price I paid for the new one. 

[.....]

I had the same idea. I had TWO 18L's at one point. I figured one for spare and my wife could ride it. In the end, she couldnt/wouldnt ride, and my original 18L is still kickin. I ended up reselling the spare. NOW I have flavors of wheels just in case one konks out. I wouldnt worry about losing your learning. Like a bicycle, once you got it, you got it. The physical conditioining could wane a bit, but the knowledge is yours to keep.

[Paulo Mesquita]

I went to see both wheels, and as a matter of fact, I didn't like the idea of the KS 18L (drove 70kms + another 70kms just to see it) with the blockable serial and smaller pedals. 

The other one, the KS 16X seems quite OK and has only a few markings... And the guy lives quite close. 

So I'm still pondering... But I really need a 2nd wheel to feel comfortable and the 2nd hand  market is very sparce around here... 

On 2/14/2021 at 11:21 PM, Unventor said:

I would still thing twice about buying a domestic Chinese version.

I fully agree...